Jump to content
Attention: In order to reply to messages, create topics, have access to other features of the community you must sign up for an account.
Sign in to follow this  
2Line1291

Rogers Junction

Recommended Posts

When is the (MTA) gonna take the time to include the infamous bottleneck Rogers Junction in one of the budgets for reconstruction so it can handle the (2)(3)(4)(5) train services.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
When is the (MTA) gonna take the time to include the infamous bottleneck Rogers Junction in one of the budgets for reconstruction so it can handle the (2)(3)(4)(5) train services.

 

Can't. Taking that junction out of service to "upgrade" it will disrupt that line for years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to see the Rogers Junction rehabbed. Heck, I've even came up with a viable realignment design of my own, but it may disrupt service for a really long time. Installation of new switches would be one factor, tunnel reinforcement and realignment, etc. I can see it now: (2), (3), (4) and (5) trains backed up to Atlantic Avenue, shuttle train service between New Lots and Utica Avenue, shuttle bus service between Utica and Franklin Avenue, shuttle train service between Flatbush Avenue and President Street, and shuttle bus service between President Street and Franklin Avenue would be some possible service changes that would have to be implemented in the long run. But even with that, there is money the MTA will have to get, which would take time as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would like to see the Rogers Junction rehabbed. Heck, I've even came up with a viable realignment design of my own, but it may disrupt service for a really long time. Installation of new switches would be one factor, tunnel reinforcement and realignment, etc. I can see it now: (2), (3), (4) and (5) trains backed up to Atlantic Avenue, shuttle train service between New Lots and Utica Avenue, shuttle bus service between Utica and Franklin Avenue, shuttle train service between Flatbush Avenue and President Street, and shuttle bus service between President Street and Franklin Avenue would be some possible service changes that would have to be implemented in the long run. But even with that, there is money the MTA will have to get, which would take time as well.

That's gonna be really crazy. Can Atlantic Avenue even handle that many trains?

 

And, no shuttle bus between Atlantic and Franklin to take passengers to Atlantic for the trains?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's gonna be really crazy. Can Atlantic Avenue even handle that many trains?

 

And, no shuttle bus between Atlantic and Franklin to take passengers to Atlantic for the trains?

 

Whoops, I forgot about Atlantic. The buses can go there.

 

Atlantic Avenue was used in the past as a terminal, before 1920. Things have changed since then. Atlantic Avenue probably wouldn't be an adequate terminal, but if Atlantic Avenue can handle all four routes then you can have one route use a different track ((2) used N/B local, (3) uses N/B express, (4) uses S/B express, (5) used S/B local). If not, you can have the (2) and the (3) serve Brooklyn only and use the express tracks to relay and the (4) come into Brooklyn during weekdays for supplemental service from Lexington, and the (5) will just stay in Manhattan. But be warned: as much as the Rogers Junction realignment may ne needed, as it was planned in the past, riders will be inconvenienced to a great extent, thus being mad...as...HELL!!!:mad:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about this

 

1) have the (2)(3) & (4) & terminate at Franklin Ave

2) have and Eastern Parkway express buses to Franklin Ave

3) pplz came take alternative train rides like the (;)(Q)(L)(A) & (C) trains.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Rogers Junction has a complicated interlocking....much like the interlocking north of the DeKalb Avenue station on the (;), (M), (Q), & (R).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wouldn't that create more problems because Livonia Yard is over there and displacing the trains there would be a pain?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wouldn't that create more problems because Livonia Yard is over there and displacing the trains there would be a pain?

 

It depends...I think that only the express tracks can be used, which means only the (4) train will be able to provide service, meaning that Bergen Street, Grand Army Plaza and Eastern Parkway will all be affected with possibly no train service. But new tunneling will disrupt that pattern as well, and it may even disrupt car service on the Parkway because of this work. I really don't know how the MTA can pull this off, as beneficial as it sounds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Essentially what the OP is asking for is a re-building of the IRT Eastern Parkway line. The idea sounds great on paper but the implementation would cause disruptions to riders and motorists for years. For that reason alone I'd say it would never happen. Look at the SAS. Do you think anyone in Brooklyn would stand for that? I can't recall when the TA or (MTA) ever had a major project completed without delays and cost overruns. You're talking about major disruptions to an important thoroughfare as well as subway lines for years, if not a decade. It's also a major residential street so that must be considered also. As much as I'd like to see that bottleneck cleared up the devil is in the implementation of such a plan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They should've gotten it done when the subway wasnt crowded. Its still possible to get it rebuild but its gonna be complicating - but i've rather take that chance before there aren't chances/impossible to rebuild Rogers Junction at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They should've gotten it done when the subway wasnt crowded. Its still possible to get it rebuild but its gonna be complicating - but i've rather take that chance before there aren't chances/impossible to rebuild Rogers Junction at all.

 

What would make it impossible later, rather than now ? The line was crowded soon after it's construction so nothing has changed since then. I take it you don't live along Eastern Parkway or Rogers Avenue. I invite you to take a walk along Eastern Parkway, from east of Franklin Avenue to Nostrand Avenue and tell me how you would minimize the congestion caused by such a project. There are three north-south bus lines crossing the parkway above the subway at that point. Before the bus lines trolley lines crossed there. Do you propose to screw them up? The parkway is lined with apartment buildings above the line. Do you disrupt the utilities and limited parking they have now ? Do you propose shuttle bus service for the residents of Crown Heights, Lefferts Garden, Flatbush, East Flatbush, Brownsville and East New York ? For years? That's how many communities would be affected by such an undertaking. Don't get me wrong. I agree with the idea. I'm just trying to point out why the (MTA) would be loath to propose such a project, never mind the money aspect which is the big Kahuna anyway. The NIMBY factor is also there although, long-term, this project would benefit many. Try to come up with a plan that would minimize the disruption and let's let the forum members have their say. Let's keep it on topic and not drift off into fantasy land.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well do we have any plans out there ? IF the project were to be undertaken what would you do?I know the area in question well, upstairs and downstairs, and I'd like to see what we could come up with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well do we have any plans out there ? IF the project were to be undertaken what would you do?I know the area in question well, upstairs and downstairs, and I'd like to see what we could come up with.

 

Speaking as a Brownsville resident, I'd be pissed as hell as if this were to happen and that is me speaking as a railbuff knowing the positive long-term outcome. I say this because, as is, it takes me an hour to get to Manhattan and longer during non-rush hours. If this ever goes down, I better go get my license, lol.

 

But if it HAD to happen, here is what i'd do:

 

- Implement the (3) shuttle between New Lots and Utica Avenue

 

-Implement the (2) shuttle between Flatbush and President Street

To my knowledge there arent any switches at President Street so what i would do is just have two trains running back and forth, one on each side :confused:)

 

- I would end the (4) at Atlantic and the (2) at Franklin and I'd split (3) service, majority going to any other local line (Lex?) and some of the extra (3) trains acting as (2)'s because i'm not sure how many trains Franklin can turn back and the congestion would be chaos?

 

If that wasnt clear It would be

 

(4) Woodlawn

(4) Atlantic Ave

 

(2) Wakefield- 241 st

(2) Franklin Avenue

 

(3) Wakefield- 241 st (3) Pelham Bay Park (3) Eastchester- Dyre

(3) Franklin Avenue or (3) Brooklyn Bridge or (3) Bowling Green

 

And any other combination of the 1,2,4,5,6 lines but splitting the 3 service and using their cars to provide extra service else where to compensate for the disruption.

 

Shuttle bus service would be provided for Franklin, Kingston, Nostrand, and Utica Avenue. Hell, perhaps extend the B71 down Eastern Parkway?!

 

Where to store the cars? Ummm the express tracks btwn Franklin and Atlantic? The (3) shuttle has Livonia Yard and under my plan the (2) train only needs two train sets.

 

 

Please dont flame. This required some creative thinking...and errr, um...it sure was creative. :cool:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

President St has a double interlocking south of the station, so it can turn trains as well as any other island terminal essentially could. I'd be mad as well living at the end of the (3) line. I'd have to essentially go to Broadway Junction instead to get to Manhattan instead, because shuttling is the only solution I see to fixing that junction. Although I do realize that this scenario will not be relevant until MUCH later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand the cons if the MTA does reconstruct Rogers Junction; its gonna be hell :mad: , but look at the pros of a brand new Rogers Junction - better (2)(3)(4)(5) service flow and less delays (especially the (5) )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I heard of a plan somewhere in the 50's that intended to reconstruct the junction. Is there a map available of what would happen if the junction was redone then? At that time, the TA planned (Plan of Action, or something) to redo the Dekalb interlocking, the (2) extension, the SAS, the Queens super express, the Chrystie Street Connection and the Rogers Avenue Junction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I heard of a plan somewhere in the 50's that intended to reconstruct the junction. Is there a map available of what would happen if the junction was redone then? At that time, the TA planned (Plan of Action, or something) to redo the Dekalb interlocking, the (2) extension, the SAS, the Queens super express, the Chrystie Street Connection and the Rogers Avenue Junction.

 

Wow...I don't know why they left this one out...they really ned to redo the junction, especially since the (5) operates to Brooklyn now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/25/2009 at 5:37 PM, Trainmaster5 said:

What would make it impossible later, rather than now ? The line was crowded soon after it's construction so nothing has changed since then. I take it you don't live along Eastern Parkway or Rogers Avenue. I invite you to take a walk along Eastern Parkway, from east of Franklin Avenue to Nostrand Avenue and tell me how you would minimize the congestion caused by such a project. There are three north-south bus lines crossing the parkway above the subway at that point. Before the bus lines trolley lines crossed there. Do you propose to screw them up? The parkway is lined with apartment buildings above the line. Do you disrupt the utilities and limited parking they have now ? Do you propose shuttle bus service for the residents of Crown Heights, Lefferts Garden, Flatbush, East Flatbush, Brownsville and East New York ? For years? That's how many communities would be affected by such an undertaking. Don't get me wrong. I agree with the idea. I'm just trying to point out why the (MTA) would be loath to propose such a project, never mind the money aspect which is the big Kahuna anyway. The NIMBY factor is also there although, long-term, this project would benefit many. Try to come up with a plan that would minimize the disruption and let's let the forum members have their say. Let's keep it on topic and not drift off into fantasy land.

And that has NOT changed in all the years (almost NINE) since this was originally posted.

I would suspect de-interlining the lines east of Franklin Avenue would be easiest, with the (4) and (5) going to Utica (with the (4) full time to New Lots and (5) to Utica at all times except late nights) and the (2) and (3) both going to Flatbush at all times (except late nights on the (3)).  There is no good way to deal with this other than doing that, though one benefit of the way I would do it is it would increase service to Flatbush and Utica in off hours and give two lines to Flatbush on weekends.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.