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MichaelEspinal

Transit Police are out and not playing.

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Well this was a bit of a surprise, I just moved here from Florida about 3 months ago. Now I've studied the system out of my own personal interest and lived here way younger when I was in middle school, and never once did I thought I'd actually get in trouble for riding in between subway cars.

 

Last Sunday, I was riding from 225th to Vancortland park, and back down to 225th to catch a couple detail photos for a project I'm working on simulator related (see here). It's become a habit to walk in between the cars to minimize time walking on the platform, something I see people do often. While at 238th st, southbound platform I exited the 6th car in the 10 car set of R62's to get to the 5th one, ultimately to get to the first since the 225th st exist is at the far south end of the platform.

 

An undercover officer pulls me aside showing only a bade requesting my photo I.D. Now I'm not exactly sure how things are done in New York, but in Florida undercover or not an officer is required by law to present a Badge and Photo I.D. I refused to comply until he showed proper Identification that he in fact was in officer, (at this point it should be evident - im not going anywhere.) Anyone can buy a badge and pretend to be a cop, and it doesn't help that he was undercover. He instead signaled 2 more officers to come and assist, at that point I was patted, and conversation from there was polite and with ease, I explained that I was from Florida and did not hold a NY drivers license, Legally I am still a resident of Florida, and I will be returning to finish my flight training as well. I have no need to drive in NY as well.

 

Walking in between train cars with out authorization to do so.

 

That was printed on my violation form, with a fine of 75$ dollars. I mean no disrespect to the Transit Police, and after receiving the ticket I thanked them for there work, shook hands with the undercover officer, and we ended up in a conversation about his brand new pair of Jordans. Instead I'd just like to share this story so that no one else gets into the same predicament. I will be fighting the violation (which many tell me isn't worth my time..), and looking into whether or not proper procedure was taken when the undercover came up to me.

 

Has anyone else seen an increase in security?

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I will be fighting the violation

 

What for? Going to try and argue that you didn't actually pass through cars? Don't waste the courts (and your) time.

 

which many tell me isn't worth my time

 

Those voices of reason should be cherished.

 

and looking into whether or not proper procedure was taken when the undercover came up to me.

 

That was proper procedure; also the officer that stopped you was plainclothes, not undercover. Big difference.

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Walking in between train cars with out authorization to do so.

 

That was printed on my violation form, with a fine of 75$ dollars. I mean no disrespect to the Transit Police, and after receiving the ticket I thanked them for there work, shook hands with the undercover officer, and we ended up in a conversation about his brand new pair of Jordans. Instead I'd just like to share this story so that no one else gets into the same predicament. I will be fighting the violation (which many tell me isn't worth my time..), and looking into whether or not proper procedure was taken when the undercover came up to me.

 

Has anyone else seen an increase in security?

It is a violation to walk/ride between cars

Move between end doors of a subway car whether or not train is in motion, except in an emergency or when directed by police officer or conductor

http://www.mta.info/nyct/rules/index.html

 

Not sure exactly how you plan to win since you said you did. Also, from my past previous encounters with plainclothes NYPD officers, they only show their badge and ask you for ID.

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While I understand, Ignorance of the law is no excuse, I was unaware. Despite what ever rules are published on the mta website, there are only 2 stickers on the actual R62 that are posted by the handle on the door stating in small print that moving between the cars is prohibited, something most people can miss if they are on the phone or distracted for what ever reason. I will let them know that I am still knew and getting used to the "rules".

 

As far as the badge issue, I'm not an officer nor do I know much about how they work. I have friends who work for Gardens PD in Florida, After consulting with them, mind you these are two different states so I expect policy's to be different, we agreed that undercover/plainclothes or not an officer should still present a Police I.D along with there badge. As I said before, anyone can buy a toy badge and pretend to be a cop, in my case I'm unaware what the NY badge looks like.

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Sorry you had to go through that. I had a similar experience. My friend and I was on the W21 coming back from White Plains Shopping Center and we took took the W21 to the Woodlawn (4) subway station. So we saw the (4) train sitting there and it was about to leave so we hopped I think was the 8th car and walked through the next subway car, by the time I stepped through the next subway car. An undercover cop pulled us out asked to sit on the bench. He asked us for our I.D.s. So there was about 5-6 ppl near the benches...I'm like damn we must be in big trouble lol. So some dude decided to make a cigarette and stopped him. The officer was like "Today is your lucky day" to us, handed back our I.D's and took us to go home. Boy was I happy not to get a $75 fine.

 

At certain stations it might be 2 or more undercover officers.....I don't know if that's increase security!

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Sorry you had to go through that. I had a similar experience. My friend and I was on the W21 coming back from White Plains Shopping Center and we took took the W21 to the Woodlawn (4) subway station. So we saw the (4) train sitting there and it was about to leave so we hopped I think was the 8th car and walked through the next subway car, by the time I stepped through the next subway car. An undercover cop pulled us out asked to sit on the bench. He asked us for our I.D.s. So there was about 5-6 ppl near the benches...I'm like damn we must be in big trouble lol. So some dude decided to make a cigarette and stopped him. The officer was like "Today is your lucky day" to us, handed back our I.D's and took us to go home. Boy was I happy not to get a $75 fine.

 

At certain stations it might be 2 or more undercover officers.....I don't know if that's increase security!

 

And you didn't fight it you paid it right?

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It's got nothing to do with "increasing security", it's directly related to getting their numbers up. Quotas.

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It's got nothing to do with "increasing security", it's directly related to getting their numbers up. Quotas.

 

Well I definitely took a moment to understand the danger one can place themselves in when crossing in between two moving cars, something they did point out.

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Well I definitely took a moment to understand the danger one can place themselves in when crossing in between two moving cars, something they did point out.

 

Crossing between cars is hardly a dangerous activity. As long as one knows how to properly do it, there is little risk. As a matter of fact, on the Long Island Rail Road the conductors oftentimes tell people to move forward/back over the PA. Anyone whose ridden a Long Beach train during the rush has probably heard the words "First two cars will not platform at Locust Manor...please walk back to exit at Locust Manor!" While I have no personal qualms with walking between cars on tangent track, I most certainly won't do it on a curve or through an interlocking.

 

There we go.....I was waiting for someone to say that! :tup:

 

:cool:

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Anyone whose ridden a Long Beach train during the rush has probably heard the words "First two cars will not platform at Locust Manor...please walk back to exit at Locust Manor!"

 

Lawd that annoyed the hell out of me that day that happened to me. I had to walk to the 4th-5th car to exit @ Locust Manor!

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Crossing between cars is hardly a dangerous activity. As long as one knows how to properly do it, there is little risk. As a matter of fact, on the Long Island Rail Road the conductors oftentimes tell people to move forward/back over the PA. Anyone whose ridden a Long Beach train during the rush has probably heard the words "First two cars will not platform at Locust Manor...please walk back to exit at Locust Manor!" While I have no personal qualms with walking between cars on tangent track, I most certainly won't do it on a curve or through an interlocking.

 

In theory it's not dangerous but most people are idiots who have no idea that they should:

 

-Not cross between cars on or approaching sharp curves

-Not take small children with them between cars

-Not cross between cars when they are carrying a lot of items

-Not cross between cars while using a phone or changing a song on their music player

-Hold the grab irons at all times while crossing between cars

-Not use the chains for support as they are not fixed and can move on you

-Not urinate between cars

-Watch their step while walking between cars

-Not cross between cars unless absolutely necessary when there is bad weather, such as rain/snow/ice that can make the anticlimbers slippery

 

You're not allowed to do it when the train is stopped because a stopped train can start unpredictably (at least for the average rider) so they don't want any grey areas where they can get sued because it was thought to be "safe" and then the train takes power and someone gets crunched because they were mid stride and off balance and fell down between...Believe me that's the last thing anyone wants, train gets the lineup, ding, starting lights, takes power, and someone gets killed because they "didn't think the train was gonna move"...

 

Subway curves are tighter and all of the spaces between cars are non-articulated, so that explains the ban in NYCT vs MNCR/LIRR...plus too many people have been caught or killed doing stupid things out there. The last thing a train crew needs is some body laying on a track that fell off the previous train so they just outlaw it now because it's easier to dumb down the standard than educate people on the common sense of not falling into a hole under a moving train. That's a sad state of our society, but it's true...

 

It's got nothing to do with "increasing security", it's directly related to getting their numbers up. Quotas.

 

Actually they've found a lot of weapons, drugs, and priors on people they've ticketed doing this. But it IS illegal now so don't do it unless you're prepared to pay the fine.

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Crossing between cars is hardly a dangerous activity. As long as one knows how to properly do it, there is little risk. As a matter of fact, on the Long Island Rail Road the conductors oftentimes tell people to move forward/back over the PA. Anyone whose ridden a Long Beach train during the rush has probably heard the words "First two cars will not platform at Locust Manor...please walk back to exit at Locust Manor!" While I have no personal qualms with walking between cars on tangent track, I most certainly won't do it on a curve or through an interlocking.

 

 

That's what I figured, there are grab handles there as well, However I can see how someone could put themselves in a difficult situation walking in between the cars (which Ive never heard of something like this happening) but I figured they could not be paying attention to the gap and trip, or get rocked off there feet if the train is going fast enough or something of the sort.

 

And I experience the same on NJTransit, the cars built for those FRA Regulated railroads however usually have an enclosed passage at the end of each car that a passenger passes though, so theres no exposure to the outside of that vehicle (In this case I'm referring to the Multi Level's, and commet's/shoreliner's) I dont know if that holds evident with the Mx's and the silverliner's.

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Actually they've found a lot of weapons, drugs, and priors on people they've ticketed doing this. But it IS illegal now so don't do it unless you're prepared to pay the fine.

 

 

I thought of that while I left the station, because they take your I.D and run checks with (some mobile machine), they are able to find people with warrants, possessions, etc.

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Actually they've found a lot of weapons, drugs, and priors on people they've ticketed doing this. But it IS illegal now so don't do it unless you're prepared to pay the fine.

 

Of course. There are a lot of skells in this city. That said, however, these types of tickets are usually given out to satisfy the numbers. No cop wants to sit on a prisoner in central booking for 900 hours. :o

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I think that law is not working well

Here on (7)<7>, people still switching cars between train car.

I even saw blind homeless elderly lady begging for money on R32/R38 as she change car to car.

 

Illegal seller like selling DVDs (happens on (4) at Grand Central); batteries as they change car to car.

Even the illegal musician switching cars like on (7)<7>

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I think that law is not working well

Here on (7)<7>, people still switching cars between train car.

I even saw blind homeless elderly lady begging for money on R32/R38 as she change car to car.

 

Illegal seller like selling DVDs (happens on (4) at Grand Central); batteries as they change car to car.

Even the illegal musician switching cars like on (7)<7>

 

Hard to enforce the law when there isn't a police officer around, don't you think?

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I know getting a ticket sucks , and I would have been pissed if I was in a similiar situation. I don't wear a seatbelt when I drive , basically because I don't agree with the law. When I get pulled over I get professional courtesy as a motorman and don't get tickets , but I did get one for double parking one night when I left work at Stillwell at 2:30am and double parked to run into a bank to make a deposit. I was 2 minutes in and out at the ATM. The officer was already writing the ticket but when she saw the MTA uniform she wrote the address down I was parked in front of wrong by one number so I could fight the ticket on a technical ground (fighting it on internet and no verdict yet , but the car gets the ticket (plate no) not the driver and I'm getting a new car in a month so really doesn't matter the verdict anyway as my plates will be going back in) ... ANYWAY ... the point I'm making is I understand the police can be ball breakers , and when you got the ticket for moving in between the cars that may have been what you thought ... BUT ... Here is something to think about : Most people don't think anything will happen to them walking in between the cars ... they think it's just another stupid rule so cops can write tickets. In the winter of this year , '09 , back in I think Jan or Feb , at Stillwell , a n/b (N) train was pulling out , back of train was still in the station and T/O was doing 10mph going over a switch. An oriental lady had just gotten on the train , and was walking between two cars of a 160. The anti-climber was iced over , she slipped , fell in between the cars , and was sliced in half. Her internal organs were spilling out of her. She was not out to cause trouble , or be a hooligan , but that one wrong step cost her her life and a gruesome fate ... In the event of a 12-9 (I'm sure you railfans know what that is) there is an investigation. 160's have event recorders (like black boxes on airplanes) , that tell what a motorman was doing. When some knucklehead walks between the cars and goes under , an investigation is done , if the T/O was going so much as 1mph over whatever the posted speed limit was , it can be his job. So not only are you putting your own life / safety in danger , you're also potentially screwing over the motorman. SO DON'T WALK BETWEEN THE %$$&@ CARS - DAMNIT!!! (caps necessary there) ... Good luck fighting the ticket , but you can't beat it because the plainclothes cop didn't show you his ID card. You could potentially make a complaint on him that he refused to do so , but it won't go anywhere , and it still won't get you out of the ticket. Good luck , though.

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I know getting a ticket sucks , and I would have been pissed if I was in a similiar situation. I don't wear a seatbelt when I drive , basically because I don't agree with the law. When I get pulled over I get professional courtesy as a motorman and don't get tickets , but I did get one for double parking one night when I left work at Stillwell at 2:30am and double parked to run into a bank to make a deposit. I was 2 minutes in and out at the ATM.

 

 

The officer was already writing the ticket but when she saw the MTA uniform she wrote the address down I was parked in front of wrong by one number so I could fight the ticket on a technical ground (fighting it on internet and no verdict yet , but the car gets the ticket (plate no) not the driver and I'm getting a new car in a month so really doesn't matter the verdict anyway as my plates will be going back in) ...

 

 

ANYWAY ... the point I'm making is I understand the police can be ball breakers , and when you got the ticket for moving in between the cars that may have been what you thought ... BUT ... Here is something to think about : Most people don't think anything will happen to them walking in between the cars ... they think it's just another stupid rule so cops can write tickets. In the winter of this year , '09 , back in I think Jan or Feb , at Stillwell , a n/b (N) train was pulling out , back of train was still in the station and T/O was doing 10mph going over a switch.

 

 

An oriental lady had just gotten on the train , and was walking between two cars of a 160. The anti-climber was iced over , she slipped , fell in between the cars , and was sliced in half. Her internal organs were spilling out of her. She was not out to cause trouble , or be a hooligan , but that one wrong step cost her her life and a gruesome fate ... In the event of a 12-9 (I'm sure you railfans know what that is) there is an investigation. 160's have event recorders (like black boxes on airplanes) , that tell what a motorman was doing. When some knucklehead walks between the cars and goes under , an investigation is done , if the T/O was going so much as 1mph over whatever the posted speed limit was , it can be his job.

 

 

 

So not only are you putting your own life / safety in danger , you're also potentially screwing over the motorman. SO DON'T WALK BETWEEN THE %$$&@ CARS - DAMNIT!!! (caps necessary there) ... Good luck fighting the ticket , but you can't beat it because the plainclothes cop didn't show you his ID card. You could potentially make a complaint on him that he refused to do so , but it won't go anywhere , and it still won't get you out of the ticket. Good luck , though.

 

Paragraphs people. Paragraphs! @_@

 

 

In any case everybody who said it is right. Don't waste your time fighting the ticket ESPECIALLY since you did commit the violation you got written up for. The $75 bucks you'd still end up shelling out will just be an incentive to not make the same mistake again, or if you're going to keep doing it; learn how to get away with it.

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You think thats crazy dont do it on the (J) line the cops are out in force and at least ONCE a day during my trips i see some idiot on the platform with cuffs on him because of?

 

He walked between the cars and they run his ID and he had warrents/and or drugs or weapons on him...

 

MM Mike commented about that Lady at the Well who got cut in half on the (N)ovember there was another lady two years before on the (2) who just had to go to the john between cars(guess she couldnt hold it) leaving E Tremont ave N/B(there is a tight curve there) guess what happened to her?

 

Slipped and got turned into hamburger...

 

If you are going to risk a ticket at least make sure you are safe in doing this.

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Well this was a bit of a surprise, I just moved here from Florida about 3 months ago. Now I've studied the system out of my own personal interest and lived here way younger when I was in middle school, and never once did I thought I'd actually get in trouble for riding in between subway cars.Hey Mike welcome to the forums.

 

Last Sunday, I was riding from 225th to Vancortland park, and back down to 225th to catch a couple detail photos for a project I'm working on simulator related (see here). It's become a habit to walk in between the cars to minimize time walking on the platform, something I see people do often. While at 238th st, southbound platform I exited the 6th car in the 10 car set of R62's to get to the 5th one, ultimately to get to the first since the 225th st exist is at the far south end of the platform.

 

An undercover officer pulls me aside showing only a bade requesting my photo I.D. Now I'm not exactly sure how things are done in New York, but in Florida undercover or not an officer is required by law to present a Badge and Photo I.D. I refused to comply until he showed proper Identification that he in fact was in officer, (at this point it should be evident - im not going anywhere.) Anyone can buy a badge and pretend to be a cop, and it doesn't help that he was undercover. He instead signaled 2 more officers to come and assist, at that point I was patted, and conversation from there was polite and with ease, I explained that I was from Florida and did not hold a NY drivers license, Legally I am still a resident of Florida, and I will be returning to finish my flight training as well. I have no need to drive in NY as well.

 

Walking in between train cars with out authorization to do so.

 

That was printed on my violation form, with a fine of 75$ dollars. I mean no disrespect to the Transit Police, and after receiving the ticket I thanked them for there work, shook hands with the undercover officer, and we ended up in a conversation about his brand new pair of Jordans. Instead I'd just like to share this story so that no one else gets into the same predicament. I will be fighting the violation (which many tell me isn't worth my time..), and looking into whether or not proper procedure was taken when the undercover came up to me.

 

Has anyone else seen an increase in security?

Hey Mike welcome to the forums.Her is my two cents on this.Now you two sparked up a coversation about his new pair of Jordans.Now that $75 fine you pay will help him buy a new pair of Jordans so that when he catch the next person walking between the cars and fine him or her,he can spark the same conversation about the same Jordans that your fine helped him purchase.Welcome to the forums enjoy!:o

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But it IS illegal now so don't do it unless you're prepared to pay the fine.

 

Not true, if it were illegal that would mean it is a crime. Walking between cars is only a violation of the rules.

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But it IS illegal now so don't do it unless you're prepared to pay the fine.

 

Some cops don't really care...I was on an (F) train last week and a lady walked between the cars as it was entering Ditmas Avenue. I thought the cop was going to approach her but he got off instead.

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