B35 via Church Posted February 9, 2014 Share #1101 Posted February 9, 2014 (It's also nice to see how we've moved from "the MTA is arrogant and doesn't listen to passengers" to "the MTA is kowtowing to the needs of residents when they're asking for two more stops", but that's another story for another day.) Heh, Don't be fooled, The arrogance has gone nowhere.... The MTA is essentially/eventually making a push for SBS, system-wide.... When you have that "out with the old & in with the new" mentality, you tend to put everything else to the backburner & gain a hyperfocus on the "new" (which in this case is SBS).... Many eggheads in many businesses (in so many words) will tell you that, and the MTA with SBS is no different.... The adding of an Av L stop or w/e for the 44SBS is not kowtowing for residents/passengers..... Far from it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted February 9, 2014 Share #1102 Posted February 9, 2014 I have to eliminate some quoted posts because of restrictions on the amount of quotes I can put in one post. In post #1095, BrooklynBus said: "The narrowness is due to the fact that the road actually narrows at specific points, widens, then narrows again, which is quite unusual." Now BrooklynIRT says: I am actually referring mainly to the Flushing Ave-E Pkwy and Sullivan Pl-Ave "H" sections. The E Pkwy-Sullivan Pl is a bit of a different story. In post #1095, BrooklynBus said: "I think with the modifications, enforcement, and other changes that are not being made, the route could actually work well." Now BrooklynIRT says: Enforcement? The following statements express what I think about enforcement. Some of these will be statements made by others, with which statements I agree: Statement #1: Statement #2: Statement #3: Traffic signals are harder to make when other vehicles are slowing you down, legally or illegally. MTA accounts for these slowdowns that buses experience (often due to law enforcement that is never adequate enough) by creating schedules with inflated running times. This is strongly connected to "why do bus operators drive so slow nowadays?" and the quotes I got from that thread: Statement #4: The NYPD Traffic Division cannot exist without road vehicles. (Recall my statement about traffic law enforcement that is never adequate enough.) Statement #5: "The fact that we are unable to enforce traffic laws to even 0.0001% should be considered a cost of our transit system." Statement #6: "The amount of resources required to patrol the roads takes away resources from the law enforcement efforts at every other level of society." Statement #7: "It is appallingly unfair that people can buy permission to break the law (paying traffic tickets). Rich people can break the law without hardship while everyone else suffers. Assuming of course, that the law is enforced, which it rarely is." Statements 5, 6, and 7 from carsstink.org. I modified 6 and 7 a bit. Please excuse the name of the website. In post #1095, BrooklynBus said: "I just think there were better candidates in the borough that were not chosen. Specifically an east west corridor without subways with longer median trip lengths." Now BrooklynIRT says: Well, considering the fact that the train has been having problems for years and will continue to have problems indefinitely and the B44 SBS is helpful for circumventing such problems when it is fast enough on a unidirectional road with better-than-average traffic signals.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bottom line: As long as law enforcement is not adequate enough to allow MTA to create B44 SBS schedules with running times that are not nearly as inflated as they currently are, the law enforcement is useless as far as SBS is concerned. What is your point? It is not six lanes b/w JCT and Kings Hwy. The point is that you made a bunch of noise about how politicians yadda yadda yadda dont allow for "real" BRT, except for the fact that the entire reason for "watered down" BRT is the fact that the physical reality does not allow for "real" BRT due to the fact that the roads are too narrow. We can also thank the aforementioned things, organizations, and people for the fact that SBS is, unfortunately, an extremely watered down version of BRT. Once again, you mention the fact that law enforcement is useless, despite the fact that, as has been stated multiple times, cameras will eventually be turned on after a large enforcement blitz, as has happened with every single SBS route in the past. Your statements about bus schedules are also a non-starter; all transit incorporates padding into their schedules, including rail vehicles and whatnot. There are bus routes all over the city that can make schedule 99% of the time at a reasonable speed. If any specific bus route is slow due to excessive padding, that is not a fault of the traffic, that is a fault of the MTA's unrealistic expectations of traffic, and the schedule should be amended to reflect such things. In regards to your little anti-car rant at the end, you're completely mischaracterizing the "issue" (or, at the very least, something you're trying to turn into an issue.) Car ownership in this city is solidly middle class. It is accurate to say that the majority of drivers driving into Manhattan are wealthier than the average. However, within and between the outer boroughs, a sizable minority, if not a majority, of people drive at least some of the time. To say that driving is for the upper echelons is to bring unnecessary emotion about class distinction into the mix, because it's simply not true. Driving does actually make life more convenient for many people, even if it may not necessarily be done for their commute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted February 9, 2014 Share #1103 Posted February 9, 2014 I don't have anything against people who drive cars...... Neither do I. Wait wait wait.... How is it that you (BrooklynIRT) don't have anything against people who drive cars, but raise the amount of fuss that you continue to, about cars? Especially as they pertain to (what you deem) a detriment to surface transportation..... Cars aren't on these roads driving themselves.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo19 Posted February 10, 2014 Share #1104 Posted February 10, 2014 We can also thank the aforementioned things, organizations, and people for the fact that SBS is, unfortunately, an extremely watered down version of BRT. Yes, this is the one I personally take most issue with. With all the funds already going into SBS why not step it up and go the extra mile for the real deal? Political clout aside this is just all for publicity. True BRT demands more than painted streets and flashing lights to accomplish anything. THis is simply limited stop service with a shade of blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted February 10, 2014 Share #1105 Posted February 10, 2014 Wait wait wait.... How is it that you (BrooklynIRT) don't have anything against people who drive cars, but raise the amount of fuss that you continue to, about cars? Especially as they pertain to (what you deem) a detriment to surface transportation..... Cars aren't on these roads driving themselves.... I liked the "wait wait wait." I have something against the things people do that delay surface mass transit. I do not have anything against the people themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted February 10, 2014 Share #1106 Posted February 10, 2014 The point is that you made a bunch of noise about how politicians yadda yadda yadda dont allow for "real" BRT, except for the fact that the entire reason for "watered down" BRT is the fact that the physical reality does not allow for "real" BRT due to the fact that the roads are too narrow. As I stated before: Take note of the fact that the narrowness is due partially to the presence of parked vehicles and is exacerbated by illegal double parking practically every single day. cameras will eventually be turned on after a large enforcement blitz, as has happened with every single SBS route in the past. Aside from you, who has stated this? Your statements about bus schedules are also a non-starter; all transit incorporates padding into their schedules, including rail vehicles and whatnot. There are bus routes all over the city that can make schedule 99% of the time at a reasonable speed. If any specific bus route is slow due to excessive padding, that is not a fault of the traffic, that is a fault of the MTA's unrealistic expectations of traffic, and the schedule should be amended to reflect such things. Think hard about the fact that bus operators get paid overtime if they bring the bus back to the depot late enough, and the fact that if the bus cannot make a trip in the given amount of running time, the bus will be late for its next trip and may have to run light to some location along the route other than its first scheduled stop in order to make up time, or turn short somewhere to make up time. This is why MTA's expectations of traffic may not be as unrealistic as you think, especially when buses have a restricted amount of road space available to them, which restricted road space compromises their speed, reliability, and performance. I would love to know if you think that the following running times could be achieved during daytime hours without removing a lot of personal automobile parking from the B44 SBS's corridor, assuming almost no traffic signal patterns were changed from what they are now and most other aspects of the B44 SBS remained the same except that they put a stop to much of the illegal parking: Northbound... 00 leaving Flatbush to leaving Flatbush 03 leaving Flatbush to leaving "D" 06 leaving Flatbush to leaving Church 08 leaving Flatbush to leaving Clarkson 10 leaving Flatbush to leaving Empire 13 leaving Flatbush to leaving St. John's 15 leaving Flatbush to leaving Bergen 17 leaving Flatbush to leaving Fulton 19 leaving Flatbush to leaving Gates 21 leaving Flatbush to leaving LaFayette 23 leaving Flatbush to leaving Myrtle 25 leaving Flatbush to arriving at Flushing Southbound... 00 leaving Flushing to leaving Flushing 02 leaving Flushing to leaving Myrtle 04 leaving Flushing to leaving DeKalb 06 leaving Flushing to leaving Gates 08 leaving Flushing to leaving Fulton 10 leaving Flushing to leaving Bergen 12 leaving Flushing to leaving St. John's 15 leaving Flushing to leaving Empire 17 leaving Flushing to leaving Clarkson 19 leaving Flushing to leaving Church (I have been on SBS buses that got from Clarkson to Church in 2 mins on a weekday) 22 leaving Flushing to leaving Newkirk (3 mins only b/c the distance b/w Erasmus St (the Church Ave stop) and Newkirk Ave is so great) 25 leaving Flushing to arriving at "H" (doable if no cars are using the bus lane b/w Farragut and Flatbush) within and between the outer boroughs, a sizable minority, if not a majority, of people drive at least some of the time......Driving does actually make life more convenient for many people, even if it may not necessarily be done for their commute. And I still remember this: For one thing, car travel between boroughs is 3-4x faster than by mass transit. And my response, in which I quote you at the end, is this: If parking were entirely removed from the west side of Nostrand, for example, the worst common illegal parking action would be parking on the curb in the no parking zone, instead of double parking. Vehicles wanting to make right turns would have a lane to use other than the bus lane to make right turns, so the buses would not have to circumvent them. Perhaps if such a thing were done and street parking on side roads were preserved, the whole car thing would be mostly ok in my book. B44 SBS sticking to what I think should be its running time b/w Flushing and "H" (with the stops at Myrtle + Gates + Bergen) and being well-used = happy BrooklynIRT, for the most part. (Fixing that running time issue would not stop me from attempting to address other issues or helping people address other issues.) Although with the way everything works in this world, if they removed parking from the west side of Nostrand but not the east side, we would probably continue to have situations with people double parking on the east side of Nostrand and cars coming into the bus lane to circumvent double parkers. So it might be better to just remove parking from both sides. (Commercial truck parking = still legal) And if this worked on the B44 I would hope it could be attempted elsewhere. I just want buses to flow freely by not dealing with double parking or too many cars making turns in front of them or darting out in front of them (out of parking spaces) or "quickly picking up/dropping off" in the offset bus lane. Perhaps if something like this were done on the right lines it would be more viable to make trips between outer boroughs using mass transit. No more "car travel between boroughs is 3-4x faster than by mass transit." Edit: Initially forgot to post my B44 SBS running times. 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BrooklynIRT Posted February 10, 2014 Share #1107 Posted February 10, 2014 I forgot to say something very important in post #1106... Once again, you mention the fact that law enforcement is useless, despite the fact that, as has been stated multiple times, cameras will eventually be turned on after a large enforcement blitz, as has happened with every single SBS route in the past. Once again, I will quote statements you made that indicate that law enforcement only goes so far: The problem with SBS bus lanes is that they aren't really usable as such; there are too many exceptions. They're only enforced during peak hours, drivers can do pickup/dropoff and right turns, etc. and this all has an effect on performance. Sure, they're camera enforced, but I don't think they actually ticket you until you spend above a certain time in the lane itself. According to traffic law, it's not double parking unless it's done past a certain amount of time (which I *believe* is something like one to three minutes). Now recall what bobtehpanda said about "too many exceptions." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted February 10, 2014 Share #1108 Posted February 10, 2014 You say that narrowness is because of parked cars, but even without parked cars the roads are not narrow enough to accommodate "real" BRT (which only really exists in the third world and Australia; if I remember correctly, only one system in North America meets the ITDP's minimum Bronze standard for BRT). 40 feet is narrow, no matter how you slice it. Bus lane cameras have been part of every implementation, and are very effective (enforcement is automated, and it isn't very easy to fight a camera enforced ticket.) In fact, complaints have arisen from drivers every time the cameras have been turned on. They exist on every SBS route with bus lanes, including the M15 and S79.From the MTA's SBS FAQs: Some of the bus lanes in New York City, such as on Fordham Road in the Bronx or First and Second Avenues in Manhattan, are used by Select Bus Service (SBS) routes. SBS is the first generation of Bus Rapid Transit in New York City, and includes bus lanes and other features to improve bus service. On SBS routes, bus lanes are camera-enforced. View bus lanes around New York City. How Are Bus Lane Rules Enforced? If you drive, park, or stand in a bus lane during hours of operation you face fines ranging from $115 to $150. The City enforces bus lanes in two ways. Bus Lane Cameras:New York State recently authorized the City of New York and the MTA to place cameras along bus lanes to catch violators. Signs will be posted where bus lane cameras are in use to warn drivers to keep out of bus lanes, except for permitted right turns and expeditious passenger pick ups or drop offs. Police Enforcement:NYPD regularly patrols bus lanes, and issues both moving violations and parking violations to bus lane violators. New York City Transit supervisors also enforce bus lanes. If regular riders on a route are noticing that buses travel especially slowly due to excessive runtime, on a recurring basis, then that is indeed the MTA's fault. All bus routes must accommodate traffic, so the MTA has no excuse; it should build a schedule that works most of the time, instead of preparing for the Murphy's Law scenario where everything goes wrong.I have no comment on the B44 timings you propose, because I am not a traffic planner by profession and I take no interest in micromanaging something that should be left up to the MTA. However, buses and trains do have a inherent disadvantage over cars; they must decelerate and stop every so often to offload and load passengers and are limited to a set route, while cars can take advantage of less trafficked side routes and highways. Take the Q53 on Woodhaven. Woodhaven is one of the largest roads in the city, at a whopping 195 feet wide at its widest point. Buses on the road are very fast. Now let's compare travel times between the Q53 Limited and a car at 1:30AM, where traffic is lightest and buses probably don't have to navigate around traffic. Between Woodhaven/Queens and Woodhaven/Rockaway Blvd, a distance of 4 miles:Car: 10 min (24 MPH)Bus: 16 min (15 MPH)Even under near-perfect circumstances on local roads, the bus is still 1.6x slower. Trains are somewhat better, but not by much; a train on the Queens Blvd local, which has fairly large stop spacing on a very straight segment of track has an average speed of 18 MPH. Add in the fact that cars can also use highways, and it becomes clear that the car will always win over mass transportation in the outer boroughs. I forgot to say something very important in post #1106...Once again, I will quote statements you made that indicate that law enforcement only goes so far: And note the line where I said "Sure, they're camera enforced, but I don't think they actually ticket you until you spend above a certain time in the lane itself." I have since changed my belief; if you read the SI Advance article I linked above, you'll see that cameras are, in fact, being used very aggressively; drivers are being ticketed because they are not using the bus lane to turn right at the earliest possible intersection, or drifting in lane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted February 10, 2014 Share #1109 Posted February 10, 2014 You say that narrowness is because of parked cars, but even without parked cars the roads are not narrow enough to accommodate "real" BRT (which only really exists in the third world and Australia; if I remember correctly, only one system in North America meets the ITDP's minimum Bronze standard for BRT). 40 feet is narrow, no matter how you slice it. "Real" BRT is not of as much concern to me as the running times I posted that I want the B44 SBS to adhere to, with stops being added [back] at Myrtle, Gates, and Bergen (maybe Dean/Pacific instead of Bergen on the northbound; that would be a better place to get off the bus than Bedford-Fulton if one were going to the LIRR at Nostrand-Atlantic). Bus lane cameras have been part of every implementation, and are very effective (enforcement is automated, and it isn't very easy to fight a camera enforced ticket.) In fact, complaints have arisen from drivers every time the cameras have been turned on. They exist on every SBS route with bus lanes, including the M15 and S79. I truly appreciate the fact that you retrieved all that information and that you have gone so far to back up your points. That, however, does not change the statements you made last year that I quoted in post #1107. Still, I look forward to conditions improving on the B44 SBS when it gets the enforcement blitz and the camera and so on, even if MTA will not publish schedules with running times close to what I think they should be (with stops being added [back] at Myrtle, Gates, and Bergen). If regular riders on a route are noticing that buses travel especially slowly due to excessive runtime, on a recurring basis, then that is indeed the MTA's fault. All bus routes must accommodate traffic, so the MTA has no excuse; it should build a schedule that works most of the time, instead of preparing for the Murphy's Law scenario where everything goes wrong. This sounds a lot like something BrooklynBus would say. I hope you are correct! Even under near-perfect circumstances on local roads, the bus is still 1.6x slower. Trains are somewhat better, but not by much; a train on the Queens Blvd local, which has fairly large stop spacing on a very straight segment of track has an average speed of 18 MPH. Add in the fact that cars can also use highways, and it becomes clear that the car will always win over mass transportation in the outer boroughs.Win? What is this business about "winning"? I specifically wanted to do something about "car travel between boroughs is 3-4x faster than by mass transit." If the bus is 1.6x slower than the car, that is an awful lot better than 3-4x slower and provides much more of an incentive for people to use mass transit in the outer boroughs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted February 10, 2014 Share #1110 Posted February 10, 2014 I see what you said about changing your belief, so from now on I will ignore your comment about camera enforcement from that November post. I typically try to use what JAzumah once said on SubChat about how a trip made by mass transit should not be more than 2x longer than the same trip made by personal auto as my guideline for improving travel times in the outer boroughs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted February 10, 2014 Share #1111 Posted February 10, 2014 Your quote from Jazumah makes a lot of sense. 1.5 to 2x shoud be the goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 10, 2014 Share #1112 Posted February 10, 2014 To the anti SBS types, what is your solution to speeding up buses in this city? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted February 10, 2014 Share #1113 Posted February 10, 2014 To the anti SBS types, what is your solution to speeding up buses in this city? I don't know if you are including me, but I have never been against the SBS concept. I have only objected to how the MTA has gone about implementing it, choosing corridors, and the lack of enforcement of bus lanes. I'm also not crazy about the eagle team boarding buses and delaying them for te purposes of enforcement. They should be able to conduct their checks with the proper equipment whie the buses are moving. Riders shoud also not be fined when all machines at a stop are broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 10, 2014 Share #1114 Posted February 10, 2014 I don't know if you are including me, but I have never been against the SBS concept. I have only objected to how the MTA has gone about implementing it, choosing corridors, and the lack of enforcement of bus lanes. I'm also not crazy about the eagle team boarding buses and delaying them for te purposes of enforcement. They should be able to conduct their checks with the proper equipment whie the buses are moving. Riders shoud also not be fined when all machines at a stop are broken. I think folks are going to have to live with SBS. It isn't perfect, but at the same time, something has to be done to address the issues facing local buses in this city. They are too slow, make too many stops and lost ridership on many lines continue to be a problem as a result. With Bus Time now, I'm more inclined to use local buses on weekends at least when I have time to waste, but otherwise I don't bother with them. I can usually outwalk them to get to my destination, which is pretty pathetic. The one thing that has been improved is wait times and that's because of Bus Time. Other than that, I'd argue that local bus service is becoming worse and more delay prone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted February 10, 2014 Share #1115 Posted February 10, 2014 From my recent trip to Staten Island, I don't see how Bus Time is helping with bunching. I saw two pairs of S79s together in the same direction either ten or 15 minutes apart as well as three S78s right behind each other. That should not happen with a route on a 15 minute headway. That means someone is waiting 45 minutes for that bus somewhere. I will look at BusTime closer when it starts in Brooklyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted February 10, 2014 Share #1116 Posted February 10, 2014 From my recent trip to Staten Island, I don't see how Bus Time is helping with bunching. I saw two pairs of S79s together in the same direction either ten or 15 minutes apart as well as three S78s right behind each other. That should not happen with a route on a 15 minute headway. That means someone is waiting 45 minutes for that bus somewhere. I will look at BusTime closer when it starts in Brooklyn. Indeed it will be interesting to see how Bus Time will improve the reliability of buses for the sake of a commuters travels. One thing however that got me about the MTA's description of Bus Time. The global positioning GPS system connected with servers as described on the page on the official site hints at bus dispatchers observing movements of the fleets along a given route. However I think what really needs to be done is that the MTA needs to get a similar program - Bus Trek rolling already. Its still in the pilot program stages. For the record, Bus Trek when it finally hits the road may be the ultimate service management answer to prevention of bus bunching and maintaining proper spacing as well as ensuring that buses make stops on time. It should work in concept in a similar fashion to say CBTC being installed and utilized in the subways but utilizing the same GPS tracking technology used in the Bus Time application difference being that it is automated in some respects. I think once this project is completed, we may see things happen which is not limited to reliability and better service. As we are on the issue on +SBS+ its absolutely a step in the right direction to improve the speed of travel also it can nail the increase of capacity needed to accommodate growing numbers of ridership demand. I'l all for improvements in +SBS+ service in areas that the subways cannot provide access for in regards to previously undeserved areas in need of public transportation. An example would the Bx12 +SBS+ which links the Bronx Subway lines in the Bronx as well as serving important areas in the NE Bronx, ditto on the B44 +SBS+ to address the age old problem of a much needed IRT Nostrand Ave Line extension from the last stop on the and which the City Of New York failed to build. Brilliant moves on the part of MTA Bus and the NYDOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted February 10, 2014 Share #1117 Posted February 10, 2014 I didn't realize BusTrek wasn't fully operational and is still in the pilot stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 10, 2014 Share #1118 Posted February 10, 2014 From my recent trip to Staten Island, I don't see how Bus Time is helping with bunching. I saw two pairs of S79s together in the same direction either ten or 15 minutes apart as well as three S78s right behind each other. That should not happen with a route on a 15 minute headway. That means someone is waiting 45 minutes for that bus somewhere. I will look at BusTime closer when it starts in Brooklyn. Well it doesn't help with bunching at all, as dispatchers don't seem to use Bus Time to deal with that for whatever reason. When Bus Time first came out on Staten Island, dispatch actually did hold buses at stops to prevent bunching, but then for whatever reason, they stopped doing that. It's almost as if their attitude is well okay now you can track the bus so if there's 3 of them packed up together well you can see that and they'll just allow them to running bunched up like that, which I think is ridiculous. The M5 is notorious for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted February 10, 2014 Share #1119 Posted February 10, 2014 I didn't realize BusTrek wasn't fully operational and is still in the pilot stages. Unfortunately its still in the development stages. I am not clear on why however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted February 10, 2014 Share #1120 Posted February 10, 2014 To the anti SBS types, what is your solution to speeding up buses in this city? I am quite glad you asked that question and I await responses from several people (other than BrooklynBus since he already commented in post #1113 and I do not see anything wrong with most of what he said). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted February 10, 2014 Share #1121 Posted February 10, 2014 I am quite glad you asked that question and I await responses from several people (other than BrooklynBus since he already commented in post #1113 and I do not see anything wrong with most of what he said). As long as +SBS+ service improvements and innovative projects continue but not at the sacrifice of us dependant on decent service on the subways I'm all for it. As I stated, +SBS+ actually supplements as appropriate feeder lines to help those who otherwise would have no other transit alternatives to gain access to rapid transit by means of the +SBS+ network. As far as operations planning within the MTA balance is key. Lets hope opposing city officials and the NIMBYs they entertain can get with the program and advocate for better surface and rapid transit improvements putting personal political agendas to the curb, because our governer clearly could care less about inner city public transit in general. As been proven in other discussions pertainant to the MTA subways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted February 10, 2014 Share #1122 Posted February 10, 2014 I don't know if you are including me, but I have never been against the SBS concept. I have only objected to how the MTA has gone about implementing it, choosing corridors, and the lack of enforcement of bus lanes. I'm also not crazy about the eagle team boarding buses and delaying them for te purposes of enforcement. They should be able to conduct their checks with the proper equipment whie the buses are moving. Riders shoud also not be fined when all machines at a stop are broken. Ridiculous! The Eagle Team are fining passengers when the fare machines are broken sending people to mission impossible rulings for violations at the TAB? All in the name of robbing us with civil violations for revenue, that needs to stop. Thats insane. I will have to agree then, while +SBS+ is in itself again an innovative move in surface transit, yes there can be room for improvements. As was brought out concerning the situation with B44 +SBS+ . As for proper zoning on the bus route (I havent looked through all the pages so I may be unawarely repeating a point brought out already, my apologies if I did) the NYDOT I believe is locked in, very narrow corridor with little to work with here. On top of all this touching upon community relations here, customers are taking issue to stops bypassed by the B44 +SBS+ (understandable the MTA may have to take their concerns into consideration). Furthermore merchant associations are complaining about congestion along the business district along Nostrand Avenue (Let me restrain myself from laughing at this claim). I mean O'RLY? Nostrand Avenue always has been congested with commercial and livery cab traffic. Nothing new to us. So I dont see what in the world the merchants are complaining about. The NYDOT did their best IMO to assess the street grid as carefully as possible over a span of 5 years to mitigate the problem. These merchants should be happy that with enhanced B44 +SBS+ service since they are so concerned about it, it will bring more business. Remember the historic situation in regards to what led up to the demolishing of the Jamaica El past 121st Street to 168th? They wanted the el torn down claiming that it took away business. Well look what happened: The MTA did demolish the El and now these merchanits are out of business for decades until Jamaica Ave was revitalized and the Archer Ave subway in operation. Maybe they can take a hint from that disaster and see the actual benefits of B44 +SBS+ then, if they are even that astute about transit to begin with. After all the IRT has been fighting to extend the and for years in Brooklyn along Nostrand Ave from the Brooklyn IRT, not happening now, so B44 +SBS+ is clearly the solution in my book. It will be costly for the NYDOT to reconfigure lanes but these merchants dont care, they want money to fall out of the sky for rezoning, in fact they dont want the +SBS+ service at all. Customer concerns about bypassed stops, ok thats a legitimate concern, wont dispute it. However what these merchant associations are saying, laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYSubwayBuff Posted February 10, 2014 Share #1123 Posted February 10, 2014 if y'all wanna make faster travel there is a solution, nostrand ave could become a bus, delivery vehicles, and green/yellow taxis (not livery cars because those do mostly illegal pickups) street, which would defeat the purpose of SBS and there could be local buses running every 3 minutes and they wouldn't bunch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted February 11, 2014 Share #1124 Posted February 11, 2014 if y'all wanna make faster travel there is a solution, nostrand ave could become a bus, delivery vehicles, and green/yellow taxis (not livery cars because those do mostly illegal pickups) street, which would defeat the purpose of SBS and there could be local buses running every 3 minutes and they wouldn't bunch Try that with other roads like junction Blvd. Or Tremont sort of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted February 11, 2014 Share #1125 Posted February 11, 2014 http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2014/02/the-mta-concedes-to-changes-for-the-b44-select-bus-service-sbs/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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