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Iamthe1

B44 +SelectBusService+

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I anted to know that since now both the (M15) and (Bx12) have both gotten +SBS+ done...when the (B44) which is supposed to be slated next for +SBS+ will it use artics or the buses it uses now? Sorry to bother you now...i just want an idea though even though I know that no one really knows...

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B44 SBS is planned for either Late next year or Summer 2012. I'm leaning towards the latter date, because I'm sure M15 SBS was intially planned for early 2010... so yeah.

 

The most noteworthy feature will be the reroute of Northbound SBS buses. [local service will remain the same]

Instead of travelling like this:

 

Nostrand Av -> right turn on Farragut Rd -> left turn on NY Av -> left turn on Fulton St -> right turn on Bedford Av

 

SBS buses will travel like this:

 

Nostrand Av -> left turn on Flatbush Av -> right turn onto Rogers Av -> merge onto Bedford Av

 

Try to keep up; there's a quiz later :(

 

The MTA's reasoning for this is actually pretty smart. Rogers Av is one way all the way until it merges into Bedford Av [around Bergen St], so there's space for a bus lane. [by the way, there'll be two sets of Bus Lanes: One on Nostrand Av and Bedford/Rogers between Flushing Av & Farragut Rd, and again on Nostrand Av between Avenue X and Emmons Av in Sheepshead Bay.

 

New York Av, on the other hand, is two-way between Avenue H and Midwood St [Midwood St is located near Winthrop St] and one-way Northbound above Midwood St, so space for a bus lane is limited. Sadly, this change will remove service from NY Av, which is really busy. The MTA could make New York Av 1-way only all the way from Farragut Rd to Fulton St, but that will never happen. The motorists would go mad.

 

The bus lanes will be offset bus lanes, or one lane away from the curb. All stations within the bus lanes will have bus bulbs. A bus bulb is when the sidewalk is extended to meet the bus lane [since it isn't at the curb.] The M15 is supposed to have bus bulbs for certain stops in 2011-2012 [The M15's bus lane is partially at the curb and partially offset]. The Bx12 doesn't, since its bus lane is already at the curb.

 

 

Also, the MTA says the B44 LTD has on average, 37 stops from end-to-end [i counted :P] The stops on SBS from end-to-end? 15. That's right! They're getting rid of more than 2/3 of the stops on the LTD!

 

The proposed stops:

 

Williamsburg Bridge Plaza

Taylor St

Flushing Av

Dekalb Av [sB]/Lafayette Av [NB]

Fulton St

St. Johns Pl

Empire Blvd

Clarkson Av

Church Av

Flatbush Av

Kings Highway

Avenue U

Avenue X

Shore Pkwy/Nostrand Av [soutbound Only]

Emmons Av/Nostrand Av [Northbound Only]

Knapp St/Emmons Av

 

Similar to the M15, the B44 SBS will be skipping most stops located above Flushing Av and below Avenue U. [The Limited currently makes all stops in these two respective areas] To compansate, local buses will be extended to operate the full route at all times.

 

Also, the following LTD stops will be axed:

 

Myrtle Av

Gates Av

Fulton St/NY Av [a Northbound only stop]

Bergen St

Newkirk Av/Avenue D

Glenwood Rd

Avenue L

Avenue R

Avenue S

 

and other stops near the ends of the route as mentioned above.

 

The Glenwood Rd stop during Rush Hour was such a time-waster [especially going Southbound] The bus would miss the light [and maybe miss it again] at Glenwood Rd. Sometimes it might take almost 5 minutes just to get to the next stop, Avenue H, two short blocks away. I wish I were kidding.

 

Though I don't know if it's such a good idea to get rid of Newkirk Av/Av D...

 

Sources:

http://www.mta.info/mta/planning/sbs/docs/Nostrand%20Making%20the%20Case%20rev%206%20with%20map.pdf

http://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/html/next/rogers_ave.shtml

The Map:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/downloads/pdf/nostrandave_map.pdf

Edited by Mysterious2train

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It will use the same type of buses the other SBS routes do now, as there will be another order (most likely).

 

We have 118 new artics planned for SBS services that will likely begin to arrive around this time next year. I think the M34 however, may use standard 40 foot buses.

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Yeah; I don't know why they're always skipping over that stretch. Like on the (B41)LTD. Isn't that the most densest area? That is the longest stretch between stops north of the junction.

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Great info Mysterious:tup:. There is also '2' important questions to be raised with upcoming B44 Northbound SBS service on Rogers instead of NY Ave. between Faragut and Fulton St.

 

1)How angry will B44 riders especially Northbound riders going to/from Kings County Medical Center, Brooklyn's largest hosptial have on losing service? And having only 'local' service on NY Ave. KC riders such as hosptial staff might even see this proposed change as a service cut and try to get political action.

 

2)Will B49 'local' service be reduced north of Foster Ave with B44 SBS now running on Rogers?

 

IMO to avoid confusion on Northbound, I think the B44 local mainly via NY Ave. should called the B44a in addition to the B44SBS. Late Nights when SBS is not running it's just called the "B44."

 

 

B44 SBS is planned for either Late next year or Summer 2012. I'm leaning towards the latter date, because I'm sure M15 SBS was intially planned for early 2010... so yeah.

 

The most noteworthy feature will be the reroute of Northbound SBS buses. [local service will remain the same]

Instead of travelling like this:

 

Nostrand Av -> right turn on Farragut Rd -> left turn on NY Av -> left turn on Fulton St -> right turn on Bedford Av

 

SBS buses will travel like this:

 

Nostrand Av -> left turn on Flatbush Av -> right turn onto Rogers Av -> merge onto Bedford Av

 

Try to keep up; there's a quiz later ;)

 

The MTA's reasoning for this is actually pretty smart. Rogers Av is one way all the way until it merges into Bedford Av [around Bergen St], so there's space for a bus lane. [by the way, there'll be two sets of Bus Lanes: One on Nostrand Av and Bedford/Rogers between Flushing Av & Farragut Rd, and again on Nostrand Av between Avenue X and Emmons Av in Sheepshead Bay.

 

New York Av, on the other hand, is two-way between Avenue H and Midwood St [Midwood St is located near Winthrop St] and one-way Northbound above Midwood St, so space for a bus lane is limited. Sadly, this change will remove service from NY Av, which is really busy. The MTA could make New York Av 1-way only all the way from Farragut Rd to Fulton St, but that will never happen. The motorists would go mad.

 

The bus lanes will be offset bus lanes, or one lane away from the curb. All stations within the bus lanes will have bus bulbs. A bus bulb is when the sidewalk is extended to meet the bus lane [since it isn't at the curb.] The M15 is supposed to have bus bulbs for certain stops in 2011-2012 [The M15's bus lane is partially at the curb and partially offset]. The Bx12 doesn't, since its bus lane is already at the curb.

 

 

Also, the MTA says the B44 LTD has on average, 37 stops from end-to-end [i counted :)] The stops on SBS from end-to-end? 15. That's right! They're getting rid of more than 2/3 of the stops on the LTD!

 

The proposed stops:

 

Williamsburg Bridge Plaza

Taylor St

Flushing Av

Dekalb Av [sB]/Lafayette Av [NB]

Fulton St

St. Johns Pl

Empire Blvd

Clarkson Av

Church Av

Flatbush Av

Kings Highway

Avenue U

Avenue X

Shore Pkwy/Nostrand Av [soutbound Only]

Emmons Av/Nostrand Av [Northbound Only]

Knapp St/Emmons Av

 

Similar to the M15, the B44 SBS will be skipping most stops located above Flushing Av and below Avenue U. [The Limited currently makes all stops in these two respective areas] To compansate, local buses will be extended to operate the full route at all times.

 

Also, the following LTD stops will be axed:

 

Myrtle Av

Gates Av

Fulton St/NY Av [a Northbound only stop]

Bergen St

Newkirk Av/Avenue D

Glenwood Rd

Avenue L

Avenue R

Avenue S

 

and other stops near the ends of the route as mentioned above.

 

The Glenwood Rd stop during Rush Hour was such a time-waster [especially going Southbound] The bus would miss the light [and maybe miss it again] at Glenwood Rd. Sometimes it might take almost 5 minutes just to get to the next stop, Avenue H, two short blocks away. I wish I were kidding.

 

Though I don't know if it's such a good idea to get rid of Newkirk Av/Av D...

 

Sources:

http://www.mta.info/mta/planning/sbs/docs/Nostrand%20Making%20the%20Case%20rev%206%20with%20map.pdf

http://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/html/next/rogers_ave.shtml

The Map:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/downloads/pdf/nostrandave_map.pdf

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Great info Mysterious:tup:. There is also '2' important questions to be raised with upcoming B44 Northbound SBS service on Rogers instead of NY Ave. between Faragut and Fulton St.

 

1)How angry will B44 riders especially Northbound riders going to/from Kings County Medical Center, Brooklyn's largest hosptial have on losing service? And having only 'local' service on NY Ave. KC riders such as hosptial staff might even see this proposed change as a service cut and try to get political action.

 

It's a lose-lose situation. The MTA wants a bus lane on the B44. The fact that New York Av is a two-way street below Midwood St means that's no space for a bus lane. The one solution I can think of making New York Ave 1-way above Farragut Rd. But like I said above, the motorists would not have it. Plus, ambulances driving South from Kings County Hospital will sometimes drive on New York Av. And the ambulance kind of is priority...

 

2)Will B49 'local' service be reduced north of Foster Ave with B44 SBS now running on Rogers?

I hope not. Why reduce service? That means less patronage for the bus lane. Also, I just remembered. Neither the B44 SBS or the B49 runs 24/7. This means that the bus lane on Rogers Av wouldn't be used at all overnight. And unlike Curbside Bus Lanes, Offset bus lane are to my knowledge, in effect 24 hours a day. So late nights the bus lane on Rogers Ave is a waste of space. But I wouldn't imagine Rogers Ave gets that much traffic overnight anyways...

 

IMO to avoid confusion on Northbound, I think the B44 local mainly via NY Ave. should called the B44a in addition to the B44SBS. Late Nights when SBS is not running it's just called the "B44."

 

Good idea, but I think just the "B44 Local" will do. Although bus reroutes and passenger ignorance never go together.

 

 

 

 

Replies in purple.

 

Also, to Eric B: I don't know why people always ignore the stops in that area. For example, take Flatbush Av/Foster Av for the B41. Not only is it the transfer point for the B8 - it's also the transfer point for the B49. I don't think it's worth skipping. ;)

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Replies in purple.

 

Also, to Eric B: I don't know why people always ignore the stops in that area. For example, take Flatbush Av/Foster Av for the B41. Not only is it the transfer point for the B8 - it's also the transfer point for the B49. I don't think it's worth skipping. :o

 

I also agree that the Ave D/Newkirk (2)station should be a SBS stop. Many people transfer between the B44 and B8 right now.

 

And regarding service on Rogers Ave. the (MTA) should make the B49 a 24/7 line(I know it already runs about close to 22 hours a day from about 5am-2am(1am Sunday Nights/Monday Mornings)but as ENY says those cars will park on those SBS overnights and won't be easy to leave once the morning starts.

The B49 should just hourly headways between 1-5am.(until 6am Sunday Mornings)

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I also agree that the Ave D/Newkirk (2)station should be a SBS stop. Many people transfer between the B44 and B8 right now.

 

And regarding service on Rogers Ave. the (MTA) should make the B49 a 24/7 line(I know it already runs about close to 22 hours a day from about 5am-2am(1am Sunday Nights/Monday Mornings)but as ENY says those cars will park on those SBS overnights and won't be easy to leave once the morning starts.

The B49 should just hourly headways between 1-5am.(until 6am Sunday Mornings)

 

The B44's bus lane isn't at the curb, so it's unlikely a car would park overnight in the middle of the street. Can't comment on the B49 overnight thing though.

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This is probably totally ridiculous...but what about making Nostrand 2-way north of Farragut Rd?

 

I'm getting a little ahead of my self here. New York Avenue in its 2-way section is wider than when its only 1 way. If you're being pragmatic, they is space for a bus lane on NY Av [while still kepping 1 parking lane and 1 driving lane in each direction]. However, you'd have to reduce the width of the car lanes in order to make space for a bus lane. I don't know if it's worth it. But once New York Avenue becomes one-way only above Midwood St, there kind of is space for a bus lane [although New York Avenue itself gets narrower, like I mentioned above.]

 

The MTA is just trying to make the best of a bad situation [not bad per-se, but rather a "could-be-better" situation.]

 

But yeah, that plan of yours wouldn't work out so well...

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Sorry guys, but I made a mistake in my intial post. It turns out the Offset bus lanes on the B44 will be in effect only from 7 AM - 7 PM on weekdays. I thought Offset Bus Lanes were in effect 24 hours a day. :D

 

 

http://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/downloads/pdf/20100420_nostrand_sbs_cb14.pdf

 

On Page 17, it tells you the road layout.

 

Page 19 has a detailed, blueprint-like description of a bus bulb.

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Forget about making nostrand av a 2 way street where it is not...

It would be like Bedford av, with dam near 2,3,4,5 times the traffic....

living in this general area, Mysterious2train knows what I'm talking about....

 

 

Anyway:

B44 SBS is planned for either Late next year or Summer 2012.

 

**Insert random Facepalm image here**

 

The more I hear about a B44 SBS, the more discouraged I get....

I mean, with the Bx12 & the M15 SBS, no one really got screwed...

with the B44 SBS, people are gonna get screwed.... they'll be forced to take locals if they want new york av service....

people are underestimating the B44's usage on NY ave....

 

If no one'll get screwed, then feel free to throw this post right back in my face, in any magnitude.

 

That's how confident I am that it will.

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Wirelessly posted via (Mozilla/5.0 (Danger hiptop 4.6; U; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050920)

 

Well its a sacrafice that you will just have to deal with.

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B44 SBS needs to go to Grand Avenue in order for B44 to used artics if they don't move B44 to grand Av then B44 make used NG's (standard 40ft bueses) that where they screw up at.

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B44 SBS needs to go to Grand Avenue in order for B44 to used artics if they don't move B44 to grand Av then B44 make used NG's (standard 40ft bueses) that where they screw up at.

Isn't Flatbush depot supposed to be modified to handle artics?

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The MTA could make New York Av 1-way only all the way from Farragut Rd to Fulton St, but that will never happen.

 

 

Correction: The NYC Department of Transportation could make New York Avenue one-way....

 

The MTA is not a regulatory agency and thus doesn't have the power to re-direct streets.

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I'm getting a little ahead of my self here. New York Avenue in its 2-way section is wider than when its only 1 way. If you're being pragmatic, they is space for a bus lane on NY Av [while still kepping 1 parking lane and 1 driving lane in each direction]. However, you'd have to reduce the width of the car lanes in order to make space for a bus lane. I don't know if it's worth it. But once New York Avenue becomes one-way only above Midwood St, there kind of is space for a bus lane [although New York Avenue itself gets narrower, like I mentioned above.]

 

The MTA is just trying to make the best of a bad situation [not bad per-se, but rather a "could-be-better" situation.]

 

But yeah, that plan of yours wouldn't work out so well...

 

The best solution would be just to make NY Ave, 1-way street IMO the entire length. However NIMBY's especially car owners will scream bloody murder.

 

Not to get too off topic but why did the NYC DOT and the (MTA) pick the B44 for SBS? The B41 and B46 unless data has changed has higher and much more busy ridership.

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Isn't Flatbush depot supposed to be modified to handle artics?

 

Flatbush is gonna be modified to handle artics but it won't be ready by the time B44 goes SBS, TA only have 2 options.

 

#1 is to send B44 SBS to Grand Ave so it can used artics

#2 keep it at Flatbush let it uses Standard 40ft buses until they come up with some space and etc at Flatbush.

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Flatbush Av is covered with double parkers, if the 40ft have a problem now, the artics would have worser ones

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Flatbush Av is covered with double parkers, if the 40ft have a problem now, the artics would have worser ones

 

i they should just used 40ft buses for B44 SBS

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I mean, with the Bx12 & the M15 SBS, no one really got screwed...

with the B44 SBS, people are gonna get screwed.... they'll be forced to take locals if they want new york av service....

people are underestimating the B44's usage on NY ave....

 

If no one'll get screwed, then feel free to throw this post right back in my face, in any magnitude.

 

That's how confident I am that it will.

 

Actually some people did get screwed by the M15SBS. It eliminated tons of parking, and the bus stops are so far apart, more people have opted to take the local runs.

 

The best solution would be just to make NY Ave, 1-way street IMO the entire length. However NIMBY's especially car owners will scream bloody murder.

 

Not to get too off topic but why did the NYC DOT and the (MTA) pick the B44 for SBS? The B41 and B46 unless data has changed has higher and much more busy ridership.

 

The B44 is the best candidate for the next SBS. The B46 will most likely never get it because Utica is a traffic nightmare, and not too much, if anything will help that line. Because the TA wants a north-south Brooklyn run to have SBS, the B44 is the way to go. The B41 doesn't do too bad with the service it has now.

 

 

i they should just used 40ft buses for B44 SBS

 

I don't see that happening. Even the M34 SBS is getting artics.

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