Routes that aren't around that should be

[Vistausss]

Correct! The part thats bankrupt is the operating budget (for this lets say the left pocket) and the right pocket (capital projects) is loaded with money however the MTA isnt allowed to take money from the right pocket and put it in the left.

 

Hence the reason why Jay Walder scrapped a decent amount of high positions in the MTA that weren't needed.

[Vistausss]

Exactly. Capital and Operations are different budgets. And the MTA can (and must) plan for the future. Chicago and Los Angeles are drafting up significant expansions of their rail systems, even though Illinois and California are broke just as New York is. But at least the CTA and LACMTA are trying. Unlike the MTA, those two agencies are planning rail lines all over their cities, not just in Manhattan like our MTA is doing. Why them and not us? New York City's population has been growing since the late 90s, yet we have, except for a couple of short extensions, the same system we had in the late 70s. And it shows. Clearly, it is important to fix what we have. But the MTA has been doing that for almost 30 years, while our rivals in Chicago added service to both of its airports in a 15-year span. And our rivals in LA built their entire current rail system in just 20 years and show few signs of slowing down. All that time, the MTA built only two very short lines - the Archer Avenue (re-)extension and the 63rd Street Tunnel. They've got to do better than that.

 

Now you're confusing something here. You say "MTA", but you do know that the MTA is the overlapping company? MTA also has the buses, SIR, MNRR and LIRR. So according to your interpration of "MTA", they've done also big extensions in this 30 years. What to think of the LIRR tunnel to Grand Central they are currently building? I wouldn't call that a small extension.

[Roadcruiser1]

I won't call the Second Avenue Subway small either, but these projects are going to take a long time to build, and might even get canceled due to budget problems, and that project you are referring to is the East Side Access.

[Vistausss]

I won't call the Second Avenue Subway small either, but these projects are going to take a long time to build, and might even get canceled due to budget problems, and that project you are referring to is the East Side Access.

 

True. And thanks for the project name, I had forgotten the name

But I highly doubt that the ESA is gonna get canceled. I also doubt that SAS is gonna get canceled again, well, at least I do think they at least complete phase 1. Phase 1 would already give some service to 2nd Ave.

[Bus Guy]

What to think of the LIRR tunnel to Grand Central they are currently building? I wouldn't call that a small extension.

 

That my friend, well the tunnel by its self, and some boring was done in the 60s and 70s since it is the never used lower level of the 63rd St tunnel and was suppose to be done WAY BEFORE today.......

[Vistausss]

That my friend, well the tunnel by its self, and some boring was done in the 60s and 70s since it is the never used lower level of the 63rd St tunnel and was suppose to be done WAY BEFORE today.......

 

But they are finishing it "today", so either way it's a big extension done in this 30 years. But heck, there are more examples of big extensions in this 30 years if you insist on projects that didn't start before 30 years ago.

[Grand Concourse]

Now you're confusing something here. You say "MTA", but you do know that the MTA is the overlapping company? MTA also has the buses, SIR, MNRR and LIRR. So according to your interpration of "MTA", they've done also big extensions in this 30 years. What to think of the LIRR tunnel to Grand Central they are currently building? I wouldn't call that a small extension.

 

It's manhattan centric. The rest of the city is less of a priority. That said, If there is to be a rail line in Brooklyn Utica Av would make the most sense. Av O-Fillmore has a row of houses across the street from the bus depot. I don't think they'd approve of an el built in front of their property. I still think it would have to be a subway.

[Roadcruiser1]

You are correct about the rest of the city. Staten Island is most ignored borough of all mass transit, and we only have one Crosstown Line, and that is the , and it is only a glorifed . Many people have once, and still demand a one seat ride from the Bronx to Brooklyn, and Queens without going through Manhattan. The Triboro RX isn't fully feasible due to the fact that it is a railroad, and runs through CSX's ROW. Though we should construct some extra crosstown lines, and either light rail or the subway to Staten Island. I do believe that we need a subway extension to the Bronx however avoiding Manhattan, because the only other way to solve this problem would be BRT, and BRT is only a temporarily solution.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Now you're confusing something here. You say "MTA", but you do know that the MTA is the overlapping company? MTA also has the buses, SIR, MNRR and LIRR. So according to your interpration of "MTA", they've done also big extensions in this 30 years. What to think of the LIRR tunnel to Grand Central they are currently building? I wouldn't call that a small extension.

I'm not confusing anything here. MTA is MTA. I've lived here my whole life except for college and grad school so I know what every organization is. And no, they haven't done any significant extensions in the past 30 years. The LIRR extension to Grand Central is not done. Therefore, it has not been built in the past 30 years. And I'm taking about subway/urban rail systems here, which LIRR is not. That's what most of the posts in this thread focus on, so the LIRR service to Grand Central is irrelevant. If you read my post a little more carefully, you would have seen that I was comparing the slow pace of expansion of New York subway to the much faster pace of expansion of the Chicago and Los Angeles subway/urban rail systems. I didn't include the commuter rail systems of Chicago or LA (which, BTW also expanded faster than LIRR or Metro-North). So why would I include LIRR?

But they are finishing it "today", so either way it's a big extension done in this 30 years. But heck, there are more examples of big extensions in this 30 years if you insist on projects that didn't start before 30 years ago.

They are not "finishing it today". It is far from finished and won't be finished for another several years (if we're lucky). It could and should have been done a long time ago. Think about this - Philadelphia's SEPTA linked its two separate commuter rail systems in 1984. LIRR and Metro-North won't be physically connected when the LIRR link to Grand Central is finished. They won't even stop on the same levels in the terminal.

[dman1455]

You are correct about the rest of the city. Staten Island is most ignored borough of all mass transit, and we only have one Crosstown Line, and that is the , and it is only a glorifed . Many people have once, and still demand a one seat ride from the Bronx to Brooklyn, and Queens without going through Manhattan. The Triboro RX isn't fully feasible due to the fact that it is a railroad, and runs through CSX's ROW. Though we should construct some extra crosstown lines, and either light rail or the subway to Staten Island. I do believe that we need a subway extension to the Bronx however avoiding Manhattan, because the only other way to solve this problem would be BRT, and BRT is only a temporarily solution.

 

Well a man did want to start a old trolley line on the sea side of brooklyn and queens so let's see if he does it. He has the trolley cars and track.

[Roadcruiser1]

Last I read the man that tried to bring light rail/trolleys back on the streets failed, because he ran out of money, and he didn't have a lot of support. Anyway I don't think light rail would have worked out pretty well in a majority of the four boroughs of Brooklyn, Manhattan, Queens, or the Bronx due to the density. The only place I can see light rail/trolleys function is Staten Island, and maybe eastern Queens, but most likely Staten Island. Light rail could easily cross the Verrazano Narrows Bridge steep grade of 5% defying what Robert Moses tried to do, and would be the cheapest out of any idea to put rail transit to Staten Island. Plus Staten Island's population would put it in the right place for light rail, and it is dense enough for it.

[3rd Avenue El]

i say extend the SIR to newar nj and extend the 7 line to newark so people in new jersey who have to take the subway once they enter nyc they dont have to do it in manhattan they can do it newark plus rebuilding the 3rd avenue el to gun hill road assigning it 5 train service local and express and leave the white plains line and dyre avenue line to the 2 line. also the 2 would run express and local service in the bronx. plus extending the pelham line all the way to new rochelle so it can connect with the metro north new haven line. then extend the seven line to great neck and make rebuild the sedgewick avenue shuttle and make the 4 express run on the sedgewick line to 155 street on the b and d lines. thats all i got everything else should be left as it is.

[Wallyhorse]

i say extend the SIR to newar nj and extend the 7 line to newark so people in new jersey who have to take the subway once they enter nyc they dont have to do it in manhattan they can do it newark plus rebuilding the 3rd avenue el to gun hill road assigning it 5 train service local and express and leave the white plains line and dyre avenue line to the 2 line. also the 2 would run express and local service in the bronx. plus extending the pelham line all the way to new rochelle so it can connect with the metro north new haven line. then extend the seven line to great neck and make rebuild the sedgewick avenue shuttle and make the 4 express run on the sedgewick line to 155 street on the b and d lines. thats all i got everything else should be left as it is.

 

If the 3rd Avenue El is rebuilt, it would be to B division standards, with the Bronx portion sharing trackage with a Bronx line of the SAS.

['89 Liberty MCI]

An extension of a route that is not around and should be: Run the ( 7 days a week and send it up to the Bronx at all times with the . And it can help out the on the other end. For heaven's sake. You wait an eternity for these trains and then you don't even fit in them. Rush hours keep the express in the peak direction in the Bronx and off-hours ( and run local in both directions. In Brooklyn they can keep the express at all times since they have four tracks to work with.

 

Sorry for ranting. I think it's a valid extension though.

 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

An extension of a route that is not around and should be: Run the ( 7 days a week and send it up to the Bronx at all times with the . And it can help out the on the other end. For heaven's sake. You wait an eternity for these trains and then you don't even fit in them. Rush hours keep the express in the peak direction in the Bronx and off-hours and run local in both directions. In Brooklyn they can keep the express at all times since they have four tracks to work with.

 

Sorry for ranting. I think it's a valid extension though.

 

It would also help out with the on Central Park West, especially at 81st Street which can get quite crowded from all the folks headed to and from the Museum of Natural History.

[Roadcruiser1]

I did propose to rebuild the Third Avenue Line in the Bronx as an El. It would be connected with the of the Second Avenue Subway. It's northern terminus would be Norwood-205th Street.

[Bus Guy]

I did propose to rebuild the Third Avenue Line in the Bronx as an El. It would be connected with the of the Second Avenue Subway. It's northern terminus would be Norwood-205th Street.

 

It never went there. Go back and check your history, it went to the now removed lower level of Gun Hill Rd on the and lines.

[Roadcruiser1]

I know that. I am terminating the new Third Avenue Elevated at Norwood 205th Street. I am not terminating it at Gun Hill Road.

[CenSin]

The 2 Avenue line is being built to provide relief for the Lexington Avenue line. Connecting it to the last stop on the Concourse line would do less to relieve overcrowding than connecting it to the Gun Hill Road station which would allow people looking for a seat to make an early transfer instead of waiting until 3 Avenue or 125 Street to transfer.

[Grand Concourse]

I am a bit conflicted about the SAS connecting to the Concourse line: on the one hand, it would be a direct parallel to the line which is already at max capacity. But the Bronx really needs a line b/w Concourse and WPR.

So either way, a 3rd Av line is needed more than a short term solution.

[Roadcruiser1]

I am not connecting the to the Concourse Line alright here is the play by play. The Third Avenue Elevated would be rebuilt in the Bronx. The would be linked to it north of 125th Street. The would run on the Third Avenue Elevated all the way to Norwood-205th Street, or Gun Hill Road which one is preferable.

['89 Liberty MCI]

Alright. You mean Norwood-205 as in 204th (and 205th) & Webster since that's the main intersection over there on Webster.

[3rd Avenue El]

alright heres an idea for the sas and third avenue el. convert the second avenue subway into an el right before crossing the harlem river. the sas would go up willis avenue onto third avenue like in the 50's the line would then go to 149th street there the will meet up with the (8) the will turn left and terminate at jackson avenue using the old third avenue line structure before the and portal. the would end at 149th street then use the track as a layup track during off hours to make its return trip to manhattan. the would end at 149th street but would pick up passengers at jackson avenue. the (8) would provide two kinds of service express and local. the express would end at tremont avenue with the local heading towards 205th street. once at 205th street the local would meet up with the and line at bedford park blvd. for gunhill road service there will be another service called the gun hill road shuttle or the (GH) line. the gh line would turn right at gun hill road head towards the white plains line then turn north and share trackage all the way to 241st street wakefield. while on rush hours the would run express service all the way to dyre avenue to relieve the congested line. anybody got better ideas tell me B)

[3rd Avenue El]

now for relief on the concourse line we could rebuilt the sedgwick avenue shuttle. have it run on from 161st street on the and lines all the way to 168th street on the and lines. that would provide an early transfer to those who need to get to the bronx from upper manhattan. and to those who have to take the following routes & they would be able to catch the sedgwick shuttles at 168th street manhattan all the way to 161st street in the bronx. of course it would only run at rush hour.

[EE Broadway Local]

Why not rebuild a Third Avenue Line, tie it into the SAS and end it at Gun Hill Road and Seymour Avenue?

You would create a transfer with the at East 138th Street, the at East 149th Street and Gun Hill Road and the at Seymour Avenue. This could help further relieve Lexington Avenue while providing a needed service in the Middle Bronx.