Routes that aren't around that should be

[Roadcruiser1]

He must have had said a mistake. However the should have programming via the Culver Line to Coney Island.

[Grand Concourse]

A link would be fine, you don't have to post an image every time just to illustrate a point. You are wasting another site's bandwidth when a link would be better. This applies to all your posts involving maps.

[Guest lance25]

Guys, just cause a line can be rerouted via another line, it doesn't mean there is a program in the Automated Announcement System. Case in point, the lack of an to 168th Street program. The system isn't programmed with every possibility, just the most logical ones.

[CenSin]

Guys, just cause a line can be rerouted via another line, it doesn't mean there is a program in the Automated Announcement System. Case in point, the lack of an to 168th Street program. The system isn't programmed with every possibility, just the most logical ones.

For example, there would not be an via Brighton to 57 Street–7 Avenue. That's pure confusion.

[TwoTimer]

For example, there would not be an via Brighton to 57 Street–7 Avenue. That's pure confusion.

 

or an via Culver lol.

[CTK246]

For example, there would not be an via Brighton to 57 Street–7 Avenue. That's pure confusion.

 

They already have that. It's called the weekend program, lol

[Fresh Pond]

That lower level sure has a hotbed of activity, its not just an unused piece of track by any means.

 

That was the whole point I was trying to make THANK YOU!!! :tup:

 

Guys, just cause a line can be rerouted via another line, it doesn't mean there is a program in the Automated Announcement System. Case in point, the lack of an to 168th Street program. The system isn't programmed with every possibility, just the most logical ones.

 

So explain the to Far Rockaway program

[CTK246]

Something goes wrong on the 8 Av line, causing trains to be rerouted via Fulton.

[Guest lance25]

So explain the to Far Rockaway program

 

Apparently logic is relative, especially when dealing with the . How often would one see a on Fulton Street, especially going all the way to Far Rockaway? There would have to be problems on the Sixth Avenue and Culver lines that forces trains onto Eighth Avenue and Fulton Street and at that point, they'd turn trains at 2 Av.

 

In my opinion, they should have programmed more useful reroutes into the system, like, I don't know, the to 34 St-Herald Sq via 6th Ave/63rd St, the to 57 St or the to Metropolitan Av, but maybe I'm thinking about this the wrong way.

[Grand Concourse]

Very good points. The MTA over prepared for routings that are slim to none in terms of actually happening compared to a trunication of a route.

 

I guess it can be applied to a Nasa-Russian analogy: "Nasa spends millions to make a pen work in space while the russians just uses a pencil."

[MikeGerald]

When it was just the conductor making announcements over the loud-speakers, and that was the only technology available at the time - it was real easy for the conductor to "switch routes" based upon the conditions of the railroad. In the 1970's there were plenty of times when downtown #2 trains or downtown #5 trains at 149th Street-Grand Concourse would take the "other route" due to some blockage or trouble - one just had to listen to the announcements. Along the way, the conductor would announce where the train was now going, the stops, transfer options, etc.

 

The conductor would basically say to the riders, ignore the side panels, and to just listen to the announcements.

 

The new technology tracks with the automated announcement systems can only be set up with the settings that they MTA think are likely, even though there are plenty of different possible routings. Some of the "wild" routings while possible might not be programmed, not because they can not be done, but because the MTA planners thought it not likely.

 

Mike

[Wallyhorse]

That's correct, just like the upper level of Myrtle Av can't come down either. Every few years the TA looks into taking them down, but it can't be done with out compromising the structure.

 

And I would be looking to do a total rehabilitation/rebuild of the upper level of Myrtle Avenue as part of a complete rebuild of the Myrtle Avenue El, which, if done I would do as a new train to Astoria (with all stations, including the existing ones on the Myrtle El having their platforms extended to all for 600' trains):

 

Such a line would after Navy Street on the old El route would go underground and join the Montauge Street line, either at Jay Street-Metrotech or Court Street-Borough Hall. This version would go to Astoria on weekdays and Whitehall Street-South Ferry on weekends and overnights. There also would be connections in all directions from the Broadway-Brooklyn line, allowing the to access the line when needed because of G.O.'s or other needs (including running as a loop when necessary).

[Roadcruiser1]

Can't. The reason why the line came down was because it was damaged by a fire which includes the upper level of Myrtle Avenue. Though a Myrtle Avenue Subway would be more plausible, and much more feasible.

[Bonanza123d]

Can't. The reason why the line came down was because it was damaged by a fire which includes the upper level of Myrtle Avenue. Though a Myrtle Avenue Subway would be more plausible, and much more feasible.

 

That, and it was subject to poor condition. It was only able to run IRT cars in the first place. That is another good reason to shut it down. The R39s that were planned for the line were not built. They were based off the R32.

[Wallyhorse]

That, and it was subject to poor condition. It was only able to run IRT cars in the first place. That is another good reason to shut it down. The R39s that were planned for the line were not built. They were based off the R32.

 

That would make sense if a fire made it difficult to rehab the line in 1969-'70.

 

That said, I can't see why you can't do a complete rebuild of the line (including making it, and the Myrtle Avenue station itself ADA accessible) that would include allowing all stations to handle 10-car trains on the line.

 

My version would probably have a couple less stations since with 10-car trains and entrances/exits at both ends in most cases, you would be able to not bring back some of the stops.

 

The big key to this is having it go into a tunnel after the Navy Street stop (which was the next-to-last stop on the old line prior to its being torn down), with the line from there then being able to continue into Manhattan (something the old line could not) via Montauge, most likely joining the line at Metrotech and otherwise running the former route to Astoria as a new such line.

 

This, BTW, would also eliminate the Shuttle on nights and weekends since this new would run Metropolitan-Whitehall Street on weekends and overnights.

[MikeGerald]

How come many of the transit dreams of transit fans are not built?

 

It is simple, there's no money!

 

A new Myrtle Avenue line?

 

It is simple, there's no money!

 

A new Third Avenue EL in the Bronx?

 

It is simple, there's no money!

 

A new Utica Avenue line in Brooklyn?

 

It is simple, there's no money!

 

A new extension of the D-train in the Bronx,

 

It is simple, there's no money! We are talking $400 million per subway mile.

 

It is simple, there's no money! We are talking NIMBY to the max!

 

It is simple, there's no money! We are talking about heavy expensive rail!

 

It is simple, there's no money! The MTA has had money problems for decades.

 

How many times does it have to be said?

 

It is simple, there's no money!

 

Mike

[Wallyhorse]

Mike:

 

Most of us KNOW there is no money.

 

Obviously, it would take finding a lot of money to do many of the things that should have been done but have/were not, but it doesn't mean we can't discuss whether they are feasible or not.

[dman1455]

MTA has the money... There just keeping it all to them selfs.

[Bus Guy]

MTA has the money... There just keeping it all to them selfs.

 

Correct! The part thats bankrupt is the operating budget (for this lets say the left pocket) and the right pocket (capital projects) is loaded with money however the MTA isnt allowed to take money from the right pocket and put it in the left.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Exactly. Capital and Operations are different budgets. And the MTA can (and must) plan for the future. Chicago and Los Angeles are drafting up significant expansions of their rail systems, even though Illinois and California are broke just as New York is. But at least the CTA and LACMTA are trying. Unlike the MTA, those two agencies are planning rail lines all over their cities, not just in Manhattan like our MTA is doing. Why them and not us? New York City's population has been growing since the late 90s, yet we have, except for a couple of short extensions, the same system we had in the late 70s. And it shows. Clearly, it is important to fix what we have. But the MTA has been doing that for almost 30 years, while our rivals in Chicago added service to both of its airports in a 15-year span. And our rivals in LA built their entire current rail system in just 20 years and show few signs of slowing down. All that time, the MTA built only two very short lines - the Archer Avenue (re-)extension and the 63rd Street Tunnel. They've got to do better than that.

[8 Av/Fulton Exp]

yea but i doubt they'll use a number on a 60 ft-75 ft subway car.

 

speaking of that, is the MTA doing away with 75ft cars? should they be considered endangered?

[Fresh Pond]

Wirelessly posted via (BlackBerry8520/5.0.0.900 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/100)

 

That would make sense if a fire made it difficult to rehab the line in 1969-'70.

 

That said, I can't see why you can't do a complete rebuild of the line (including making it, and the Myrtle Avenue station itself ADA accessible) that would include allowing all stations to handle 10-car trains on the line.

 

Now the problem with that is the way Myrtle Av is built. It can't be extended cuz of the interlockings east of the station, and the way it curvesand widens up to fit a platform west of the station. If they wanted the Eatern Div. extended, I'm pretty sure they wouldve done it already

[EE Broadway Local]

How about extending the out Nostrand Avenue from Flatbush Avenue-Brooklyn College or the out Utica Avenue from Eastern Parkway to Avenue U then west on Avenue U to reach the Coney Island area?

[Roadcruiser1]

I proposed that, but people complained, because they say they can just hop on buses to go onto the Brighton Line. Though I do believe that the Utica Avenue Line should be el due to the water table, and the same goes for the rest of Nostrand Avenue. Oh yeah you can't have trains use the upper level of the Myrtle Avenue station either. That station is also fire damaged, and won't be able to handle any trains.

 

The best ideas I can think of as of now is to improve our transit problems. For example charging NYC residents only $2.50 to use the MNRR, and the LIRR. Reactivate the Triboro RX line as a LIRR line since it still hauls freight, build more subway lines, and elevated lines, and build light rail on Staten Island. Improve ferry service, and add more ferry lines. Thus we can solve our transit problems. Though this does cost a lot it would help us become less oil dependant.

[CenSin]

Wirelessly posted via (BlackBerry8520/5.0.0.900 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/100)

 

 

Now the problem with that is the way Myrtle Av is built. It can't be extended cuz of the interlockings east of the station, and the way it curvesand widens up to fit a platform west of the station. If they wanted the Eatern Div. extended, I'm pretty sure they wouldve done it already

I think the IND's plans meant to replace the elevated structure along Broadway. You can see in the plans that the subway station names are different and not at the same exact locations as the elevated stations while sharing the same street. Plans also existed to connect the Crosstown line from Bedford–Nostrand Avenues to what is currently the Myrtle Avenue line at approximately Knickerbocker Avenue. The Myrtle Avenue line, would also have been replaced, branching off a thick trunk line west of Myrtle Avenue and Broadway.