MTA Lands Low Blow to ATU Memebers in latest round of contract talks

[cartmn1210]

In the latest blow the MTA has landed to ATU 726 members, the MTA walked into what was supposed to be the last day of talks and fired a cheap shot. It was agreed upon that a new MOU (contract) was done when the MTA told ATU 726 that it would NOT SETTLE a new contact unless we agreed upon PART TIME OPERATORS and agree that we would not get overtime unless we physically drove for 40 hours in the week regardless of the length of our day. :mad:

27 months and still NO CONTRACT FOR US!!! Even as the MTA Lost their appeals on TWU's contract. It looks as if we are in for a long haul...

[KNIGHTRIDER3:16]

Welcome to the Club

[BZGuy]

In the latest blow the MTA has landed to ATU 726 members, the MTA walked into what was supposed to be the last day of talks and fired a cheap shot. It was agreed upon that a new MOU (contract) was done when the MTA told ATU 726 that it would NOT SETTLE a new contact unless we agreed upon PART TIME OPERATORS and agree that we would not get overtime unless we physically drove for 40 hours in the week regardless of the length of our day. :mad:

27 months and still NO CONTRACT FOR US!!! Even as the MTA Lost their appeals on TWU's contract. It looks as if we are in for a long haul...

 

I hate to say this but: BURN THE PLACE DOWN!:mad:

 

Sounds like you guys are dealing with the same group off asshats that we deal with at PP. At least you guys didn't get this comment:"You should be happy you make what you make, you guys are lower than whalesh*t!".

 

Hopefully you guys stand together on this one!

 

In solidiarty....A proud member of ATU 1363!

[Nova RTS 9147]

When the new contracts come up, the unions will remember this.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

In the latest blow the MTA has landed to ATU 726 members, the MTA walked into what was supposed to be the last day of talks and fired a cheap shot. It was agreed upon that a new MOU (contract) was done when the MTA told ATU 726 that it would NOT SETTLE a new contact unless we agreed upon PART TIME OPERATORS and agree that we would not get overtime unless we physically drove for 40 hours in the week regardless of the length of our day. :mad:

27 months and still NO CONTRACT FOR US!!! Even as the MTA Lost their appeals on TWU's contract. It looks as if we are in for a long haul...

 

The creats a quagmire and then tries to back out of it.

[jmazz77]

Is ATU 726 Staten Island?

[cartmn1210]

Is ATU 726 Staten Island?

 

Yes

[aemoreira81]

The latter idea seems to be outrageous. If the MTA is so insistent on getting productivity out of its employees, perhaps it should do better scheduling, especially with respect to routes from the ferry.

 

The part time operators I can understand the MTA's position on, given that except for the X1, X10, and X17, all of the express routes are rush hour service only...and Meredith is a part-time depot.

 

I can see the MTA digging in its heels and going to arbitration here.

 

You can bet that it's coming to the rest of the MTA soon, especially with respect to express bus operations.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The latter idea seems to be outrageous. If the MTA is so insistent on getting productivity out of its employees, perhaps it should do better scheduling, especially with respect to routes from the ferry.

 

The part time operators I can understand the MTA's position on, given that except for the X1, X10, and X17, all of the express routes are rush hour service only...and Meredith is a part-time depot.

 

I can see the MTA digging in its heels and going to arbitration here.

 

You can bet that it's coming to the rest of the MTA soon, especially with respect to express bus operations.

 

The schedules and headways for many of the Staten Island lines are ridiculous. They give way too much time to get from point A to point B for some SI express bus lines and way too little time to get from point A to point B on the local lines like the (S48). The B/Os always complained that they don't have enough time to get to and from the ferry hence why they are either just barely make it or don't get there in time.

 

On the X10 for example, B/Os do not need almost 10 minutes to get from Slosson and Schmidts to Richmond Rd especially on the weekends. It is no wonder why they come so early.

[aemoreira81]

The schedules and headways for many of the Staten Island lines are ridiculous. They give way too much time to get from point A to point B for some SI express bus lines and way too little time to get from point A to point B on the local lines like the (S48). The B/Os always complained that they don't have enough time to get to and from the ferry hence why they are either just barely make it or don't get there in time.

 

On the X10 for example, B/Os do not need almost 10 minutes to get from Slosson and Schmidts to Richmond Rd especially on the weekends. It is no wonder why they come so early.

 

I actually was going to use the S46 as an example of what's wrong; that route has way too little scheduled running time, and it's so bad that buses cannot be kept. Plus, West Shore Plaza is overserved. It's also hard to pinpoint where the S46 is losing its time. Thankfully, people going from the ferry to Mariners' Harbor know better and use the S40 to South and Brabant.

 

If it were up to me, the S46 would be cut back to Mariners' Harbor at all times. The S40 instead would have two branches---one to West Shore Plaza and one to Western Avenue.

 

And under the current format---why are S46 buses going to West Shore Plaza at all times, or why is every S46 bus going to West Shore Plaza?

 

(If those service levels are needed to West Shore Plaza, extend the S62 there instead.)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I actually was going to use the S46 as an example of what's wrong; that route has way too little scheduled running time, and it's so bad that buses cannot be kept. Plus, West Shore Plaza is overserved. It's also hard to pinpoint where the S46 is losing its time. Thankfully, people going from the ferry to Mariners' Harbor know better and use the S40 to South and Brabant.

 

If it were up to me, the S46 would be cut back to Mariners' Harbor at all times. The S40 instead would have two branches---one to West Shore Plaza and one to Western Avenue.

 

And under the current format---why are S46 buses going to West Shore Plaza at all times, or why is every S46 bus going to West Shore Plaza?

 

(If those service levels are needed to West Shore Plaza, extend the S62 there instead.)

 

I think the (S46) is needed along South Ave. I use the X30 in the morning which uses South Avenue briefly and I do see quite a few people waiting for the (S46) to go further south. With the (S46) you would have nothing serving that area. I think a big problem is the amount of meandering that the bus has to do which is of no fault of its own. It just has to do with the way the streets meander. They need to implement signal priority on the (S46) ASAP, which would help a little bit. Castleton Ave is similar to Forest Avenue in that it can be congested and it is also rather narrow. Also, when the (S96) is running, I would have the (S46) terminate sooner and something similar that some (S48)s do, which is to terminate at Richmond Avenue.

[checkmatechamp13]

The schedules and headways for many of the Staten Island lines are ridiculous. They give way too much time to get from point A to point B for some SI express bus lines and way too little time to get from point A to point B on the local lines like the (S48). The B/Os always complained that they don't have enough time to get to and from the ferry hence why they are either just barely make it or don't get there in time.

 

On the X10 for example, B/Os do not need almost 10 minutes to get from Slosson and Schmidts to Richmond Rd especially on the weekends. It is no wonder why they come so early.

 

Sometimes, I find the problem of buses being late, but other times, I find the problem of buses running early (which is partially why I complain of too many buses traveling down Richmond Avenue).

 

On Forest Avenue, I don't know how well the buses interline with the ferry, but the problem is the traffic along Forest Avenue: Some days it is a smooth ride, and other times, there are huge traffic jams (especially in the Westerleigh area)

 

I actually was going to use the S46 as an example of what's wrong; that route has way too little scheduled running time, and it's so bad that buses cannot be kept. Plus, West Shore Plaza is overserved. It's also hard to pinpoint where the S46 is losing its time. Thankfully, people going from the ferry to Mariners' Harbor know better and use the S40 to South and Brabant.

 

If it were up to me, the S46 would be cut back to Mariners' Harbor at all times. The S40 instead would have two branches---one to West Shore Plaza and one to Western Avenue.

 

And under the current format---why are S46 buses going to West Shore Plaza at all times, or why is every S46 bus going to West Shore Plaza?

 

(If those service levels are needed to West Shore Plaza, extend the S62 there instead.)

 

Like I said, traffic in some areas can be unpredictable. There are days when the buses follow the schedule to the minute, and there are times when the S46 manages to bunch up on 15 minute headways (especially westbound along South Avenue)

 

As far as people in Mariners' Harbor, anybody going to St. George is going to be waiting for the S40 anyway: It is a well-known fact that the S40 saves a good 10 minutes vs. the S46 when traveling to St. George, which could mean the difference between catching and missing a ferry.

 

Your S40 split sounds alright: People along South Avenue have a fast bus to St. George, and the frequency meets the demand (hardly anybody uses the S40 west of South Avenue). The only problem is that a good portion of the people along South Avenue are traveling to points other than St. George (most of them get on in Port Richmond, Elm Park and Mariners' Harbor).

 

As a compromise, you could have every other S46 bus cut back to Forest Avenue, or you could implement midday limited-stop service on the S96 every 30 minutes, and local service every 15 minutes, and have all of the S46s terminate at Forest Avenue, with the S96s continuing to the West Shore Plaza.

 

I think the (S46) is needed along South Ave. I use the X30 in the morning which uses South Avenue briefly and I do see quite a few people waiting for the (S46) to go further south. With the (S46) you would have nothing serving that area. I think a big problem is the amount of meandering that the bus has to do which is of no fault of its own. It just has to do with the way the streets meander. They need to implement signal priority on the (S46) ASAP, which would help a little bit. Castleton Ave is similar to Forest Avenue in that it can be congested and it is also rather narrow. Also, when the (S96) is running, I would have the (S46) terminate sooner and something similar that some (S48)s do, which is to terminate at Richmond Avenue.

 

I don't think he's saying that the S46 should be eliminated completely from South Avenue: Just that the frequency should be reduced.

 

Living near the S46, I can say that, unless a bus is cancelled, the buses don't even get SRO along South Avenue.

 

As far as why the S46 goes to the West Shore Plaza all times, it isn't to serve the West Shore Plaza itself, since most of the stores are closed. It is to serve the people from the SIE to Forest Avenue.

 

I don't think the S46 is in dire need of traffic signal priority: Castleton Avenue doesn't have the congestion or the number of traffic lights that Forest Avenue has: The problem is the unpredictable crowds of people getting on and off at every stop.

 

As far as terminating earlier, that might work in the PM (though you might have overcrowded S96s for short distances). In the AM rush, it definitely wouldn't work. Every single bus would be crushloaded before it gets out of Mariners' Harbor, and I could forget about being able to get on at Walker Street/Morningstar Road.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I don't think he's saying that the S46 should be eliminated completely from South Avenue: Just that the frequency should be reduced.

 

Living near the S46, I can say that, unless a bus is cancelled, the buses don't even get SRO along South Avenue.

 

As far as why the S46 goes to the West Shore Plaza all times, it isn't to serve the West Shore Plaza itself, since most of the stores are closed. It is to serve the people from the SIE to Forest Avenue.

 

Actually he is questioning whether the service is needed. He said if it is needed then another bus should be re-routed down there, so yes he thinks that portion of the route should be eliminated. Clearly he doesn't see the justification for it.

 

The thing is the people down there need service also. Of course it isn't SRO. It's towards the end and the beginning of the route and the area down there isn't that dense in terms of population as say parts of Richmond Ave, but it still needs service.

[checkmatechamp13]

By showing his S40 proposal, he's showing that this area needs service, so he isn't saying this portion should be totally eliminated.

 

As far as population density, the area north of the SIE is probably slightly denser than the area around Richmond Avenue. The area south of the SIE has no people actually living there (unless there are people in the Hilton Garden Inn who somehow use the S46), but obviously, it needs some amount of service.

 

S46 buses rarely get SRO around here (even if a bus was cancelled), but I'm not sure if the frequency should be reduced to every 30 minutes. A 20 minute headway would be ideal, but the schedule can't be modified to give us a 20 minute headway.

 

If my S96 midday proposal were implemented, we'd either have 15 minute headways or 30 minute headways. If alternate buses would terminate at the West Shore Plaza (without the S96 midday proposal being implemented), we'd have 24 minute headways.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

By showing his S40 proposal, he's showing that this area needs service, so he isn't saying this portion should be totally eliminated.

 

As far as population density, the area north of the SIE is probably slightly denser than the area around Richmond Avenue. The area south of the SIE has no people actually living there (unless there are people in the Hilton Garden Inn who somehow use the S46), but obviously, it needs some amount of service.

 

S46 buses rarely get SRO around here (even if a bus was cancelled), but I'm not sure if the frequency should be reduced to every 30 minutes. A 20 minute headway would be ideal, but the schedule can't be modified to give us a 20 minute headway.

 

If my S96 midday proposal were implemented, we'd either have 15 minute headways or 30 minute headways. If alternate buses would terminate at the West Shore Plaza (without the S96 midday proposal being implemented), we'd have 24 minute headways.

 

Like I said he said if the service is needed, so he is questioning if service should be extended down there because with his plan he would do away with the (S46) running down there and if something else was needed then he would re-route the (S40) or the (S62), which I think is a bad idea. Keep the (S46) the way it is.

[checkmatechamp13]

Like I said he said if the service is needed, so he is questioning if service should be extended down there because with his plan he would do away with the (S46) running down there and if something else was needed then he would re-route the (S40) or the (S62), which I think is a bad idea. Keep the (S46) the way it is.

 

You mean keep it long and delay-prone?

 

Like I said, any way you do it, you'll have to compromise. If the S40 were extended, we'd get a more reliable route, but it wouldn't serve the areas that we want. If the S96 had midday service, the service would be too infrequent (unless some S46s were sent to the West Shore Plaza in addition).

 

The S62 idea is a terrible idea.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You mean keep it long and delay-prone?

 

Like I said, any way you do it, you'll have to compromise. If the S40 were extended, we'd get a more reliable route, but it wouldn't serve the areas that we want. If the S96 had midday service, the service would be too infrequent (unless some S46s were sent to the West Shore Plaza in addition).

 

The S62 idea is a terrible idea.

 

No I agree, I see no need to change the (S46). If anything when the (S96) runs, you can shorten the (S46) then.

[checkmatechamp13]

So the S96 service during middays would probably be the best plan (with the limited-stop section expanded to Forest Avenue). Our headways would be reduced to 15 minutes from 12 minutes, but we'd have a slightly faster trip.

 

I think it could go like this:

local stops to Forest Avenue

Grandview Avenue/Brabant Street

Walloon Street/Maple Parkway

Walker Street/Morningstar Road

Innis Street/Nicholas Avenue

Castleton Avenue/Port Richmond Avenue

then current limited stops to St. George

 

That would also help speed the trip from people in Mariners' Harbor going to St. George (though the problem is that the streets are too narrow and there are too many turns to get any real acceleration)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So the S96 service during middays would probably be the best plan (with the limited-stop section expanded to Forest Avenue). Our headways would be reduced to 15 minutes from 12 minutes, but we'd have a slightly faster trip.

 

 

That would of course mean the same thing for Forest Ave... I wouldn't let you get you guys more LTD service w/out more for us...

[Amtrak7]

What are the off-peak ridership generators on the S46 south of the SIE? It seems to be all industrial complexes that need lots of rush hour service only.

[checkmatechamp13]

No because the service can be carved out of the existing service (remember, the savings to provide this service would come from cutting back some S46s to Forest Avenue). There is nothing you can do for the S48.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

No because the service can be carved out of the existing service (remember, the savings to provide this service would come from cutting back some S46s to Forest Avenue). There is nothing you can do for the S48.

 

Have the (S48)s run only to Richmond Avenue and those in Mariners' Harbor or whatever can use the (S98).

[cartmn1210]

Have the (S48)s run only to Richmond Avenue and those in Mariners' Harbor or whatever can use the (S98).

 

When the 98 runs during PM rush, the 48 runs to Richmond Ave. Depending on the boats, there are 2 98's and or 2 48's. one goes to Richmond ave, the others go to Mariners Harbor. There's always a "long" and "short" trip during PM rush.

[checkmatechamp13]

What are the off-peak ridership generators on the S46 south of the SIE? It seems to be all industrial complexes that need lots of rush hour service only.

 

There are people traveling to the West Shore Plaza itself off-peak. And most of South Avenue isn't industrial: It is mostly office buildings and park space.

 

Have the (S48)s run only to Richmond Avenue and those in Mariners' Harbor or whatever can use the (S98).

 

That might work. The S98 has 2 buses per hour running in the midday, and the S48 has 2 short-turns and 2 full-route buses running per hour.

 

I forgot that the S48 runs every 12 minutes during middays now.

 

When the 98 runs during PM rush, the 48 runs to Richmond Ave. Depending on the boats, there are 2 98's and or 2 48's. one goes to Richmond ave, the others go to Mariners Harbor. There's always a "long" and "short" trip during PM rush.

 

After 6:15PM, there are no more "double" S48/S98 buses, and all buses go to Arlington.

 

When the doubles do run, both S98s go to Arlington, and 1 of the 2 S48s also goes to Arlington.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

When the 98 runs during PM rush, the 48 runs to Richmond Ave. Depending on the boats, there are 2 98's and or 2 48's. one goes to Richmond ave, the others go to Mariners Harbor. There's always a "long" and "short" trip during PM rush.

 

We were discussing extending limited stop service outside of the AM PM rush and how it could be done at little to no cost and that would probably permit it.