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'89 Liberty MCI

Progress on Bus Operator Shields

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While some of the shields I have seen offer better than no protection, they can still be penetrated by someone in a rage determined to attack the driver.

What is needed is a really secure 'cab' for the driver, with a separate exit to the operators left side, like some European buses have.

Of course the ultimate protection would be using so called 'cattle-car' tractor-trailers for school runs like they use to transport oil field workers in the Mideast, but that would never happen...:(

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The last part is troublesome:MTA spokeswoman said "don't know how much they will cost."

 

They know exactly how much it will cost, management just isn't sure how much they can get away with claiming they cost yet, but watch it be used as an excuse to bolster up fares down the line. Wouldn't be surprised if it becomes part of the union employees "benefits" package either when determining raise amount.

 

Additionally, since 1990s bus driver shields have been discussed on and off, with no results. I once requested of my union that we and management, including the fabricators, engineers, and funny PH'd achitecture guys get together for a weekend at a depot with a six pack and just get busy and make one. The progressive bosses said yes, the upper bosses said "absolutely not!" Seems somebody really just doesn't want these shield installed, I wonder why?

Edited by Hawk Operator
added comment

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While some of the shields I have seen offer better than no protection, they can still be penetrated by someone in a rage determined to attack the driver.

What is needed is a really secure 'cab' for the driver, with a separate exit to the operators left side, like some European buses have.

Of course the ultimate protection would be using so called 'cattle-car' tractor-trailers for school runs like they use to transport oil field workers in the Mideast, but that would never happen...:P

Maybe we should get camello's:

http://variedadplus.blogspot.com/2008/04/camellos-cubanos-desaparecen.html

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I had a hard time reading that article since my spanish is not very good at all.

Did you know that Cuba has the lowest crime rate in the western hemisphere.

 

 

Yeah but with no progress whats so ever, you have to wait in line to get food and the infrastructure is very poor, wile Castros friends and family live like kings.

 

But the good thing is that you live rent free for live (by Cuba standards)

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The last part is troublesome:MTA spokeswoman said "don't know how much they will cost."

 

They know exactly how much it will cost, management just isn't sure how much they can get away with claiming they cost yet, but watch it be used as an excuse to bolster up fares down the line. Wouldn't be surprised if it becomes part of the union employees "benefits" package either when determining raise amount.

 

Additionally, since 1990s bus driver shields have been discussed on and off, with no results. I once requested of my union that we and management, including the fabricators, engineers, and funny PH'd achitecture guys get together for a weekend at a depot with a six pack and just get busy and make one. The progressive bosses said yes, the upper bosses said "absolutely not!" Seems somebody really just doesn't want these shield installed, I wonder why?

 

 

With all that has gone down, why aren't the B/Os making more of a stink about this to their union reps?? :confused:

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Sometimes the union is funny and does not do everything it is supposed to.

 

The article about Cuba said that even though those truck-buses (camellos) carry a lot of people (300-500), the passengers are too numerous and too confined for the system to go on. The camellos were meant as a cheap alternative to conventional buses due to the 1990s Cuban budget crisis.

 

Apparently a lot of chaos went on inside the passenger compartment of the camellos due to the seemingly poor construction. They don't look very suitable for transporting passengers; they look like overgrown school buses or military vehicles. They are/were being replaced by real buses at the time that article was written.

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When did NYC become Detroit? Bus operator shields will only give the impression that NYC is a dangerous city. It will also create a barrier between the B/O and passenger. There are some B/O's who I see regularly. I always say hi to them. The barriers will limit interaction between the B/O and passengers.

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Meh. I know a lot of bus operators and have thought about this myself. We just have to deal with it, there are animals out there like Steangeli Medina and Horace Moore that make it difficult for others. I really don't think it's the end of the world though. The shield will probably be like TTC, where on an Orion VII for example you have the solid metal door on one hinge and the separate shield above it on a separate hinge. With TTC's design, the door has to be closed when you're driving, but the shield can be in the open position. NYCT will probably use the same design since it costs more to attach the shield to the door and have them swing together, and it's not as stable a design.

 

If the shield isn't open just nod at your boy when you get on.

 

Bus operators of New York City.........................................................................+1

Violent/ex-convict/animal/scum-of-the-earth/ungrateful excuses for passengers.......-1

Decent passengers with at least half a brain.......................................................+0

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When did NYC become Detroit? Bus operator shields will only give the impression that NYC is a dangerous city. The barriers will limit interaction between the B/O and passengers.

 

When you are on the receiving end of being spit on, cursed, treated poorly everyday, threatened with violence, and occassionally assaulted you really don't care if your interaction with that small percentage of offenders becomes more limited.

Shields or not, NYC is a dangerous place, or have you not noticed all the NYPD in Manhattan, both the TBTA & MTA armed police at the bridges and tunnels?

 

So whos impressions are we worried about?

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With all that has gone down, why aren't the B/Os making more of a stink about this to their union reps?? :confused:

 

Some do, but overall, like most tell me, since Roger left, "what union?"

:eek:

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When did NYC become Detroit? Bus operator shields will only give the impression that NYC is a dangerous city. It will also create a barrier between the B/O and passenger. There are some B/O's who I see regularly. I always say hi to them. The barriers will limit interaction between the B/O and passengers.

Where have you been all your life? New York City, like many other urban cities nationwide, is dangerous grounds. Yes, we have well over 34k officers, but do you think that's protecting the thankless bus operators effectively enough? No. The shields are a protective measure. I'm all for it; unless the plan to plant a UC officer on every bus (which we all know WILL NOT happen), or give operators licensed guns, lol.

 

What are your suggestions?

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I had a hard time reading that article since my spanish is not very good at all.
I just linked to that site for the pictures. But with Google Chrome, I was able to translate the page. It prompts you at the top of the window.

 

Also forgot to mention, this is like a throwback to a plan they had in the 70's to install basically, cabs like in a subway car, for the driver. It seems things got a little better int he 80's, and the idea was completely dropped and forgotten about.

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Where have you been all your life? New York City, like many other urban cities nationwide, is dangerous grounds. Yes, we have well over 34k officers, but do you think that's protecting the thankless bus operators effectively enough? No. The shields are a protective measure. I'm all for it; unless the plan to plant a UC officer on every bus (which we all know WILL NOT happen), or give operators licensed guns, lol.

 

What are your suggestions?

 

I agree, all buses should have those partitions [something like what some Flatbush RTSs have like 5180]. I mean t/os have the door keeping the general public out, why not b/os that have to stear the bus and keep watch over people dipping the card into the box? They deserve all the protection they can get.

 

Rather than plant a UC in every bus [since some buses are more crowded than others], have a few stationed at the 'hubs' or major transfer points. That's the best use of resources with the few cops freed for such an assignment. that or it maybe time for the MTA police to split from the NYPD to the way it used to be.

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that or it maybe time for the MTA police to split from the NYPD to the way it used to be.

 

The MTA Police Department (former LIRR Police/ Metro North Police)is a seperate police department from the NYPD already. However the MTA Police Department is used to protect Walder, his boys, the MTA's physical assets, and commuter rail lines only. The NYPD's Transit Bureau is pretty lame. The re-creation of a completely seperate NYC TRANSIT POLICE Department would be great.

 

NYC Transit Police Department is sorely missed. The first police agency in NYC to receive National Accredidation and the 9MM.

Edited by Hawk Operator
clarification

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The MTA Police Department (former LIRR Police/ Metro North Police)is a seperate police department from the NYPD already. However the MTA Police Department is used to protect Walder, his boys, the MTA's physical assets, and commuter rail lines only. The NYPD's Transit Bureau is pretty lame. The re-creation of a completely seperate NYC TRANSIT POLICE Department would be great.

 

NYC Transit Police Department is sorely missed. The first police agency in NYC to receive National Accredidation and the 9MM.

 

true their recreation would generate more money than it would lose due to stiff enforcement.

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Where have you been all your life? New York City, like many other urban cities nationwide, is dangerous grounds. Yes, we have well over 34k officers, but do you think that's protecting the thankless bus operators effectively enough? No. The shields are a protective measure. I'm all for it; unless the plan to plant a UC officer on every bus (which we all know WILL NOT happen), or give operators licensed guns, lol.

 

What are your suggestions?

 

When you are on the receiving end of being spit on, cursed, treated poorly everyday, threatened with violence, and occassionally assaulted you really don't care if your interaction with that small percentage of offenders becomes more limited.

Shields or not, NYC is a dangerous place, or have you not noticed all the NYPD in Manhattan, both the TBTA & MTA armed police at the bridges and tunnels?

 

So whos impressions are we worried about?

 

Great, so buses will look like the interior of a White Castle. Just another reason to get a car...

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Great, so buses will look like the interior of a White Castle. Just another reason to get a car...

 

By that 'arguement', then why are t/o's or c/r's behind a closed door? Who cares what the interior would look like. I'd rather the driver be safe from the potential psychos in the public from doing harm to them. To some of those animals, that 7-yr punishment would not be enough of a deterrant against assaults.

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The lack of a barrier and exposure to ex-convicts, as I like to call these bad-minded passengers, is also a big reason why a lot of operators often appear to be defensive or upset when they're in the seat. This is something that has been brewing for a while with the ex-convicts acting like they can do whatever they want.

 

Punch someone in the face, shoot him/her, stab him/her, and then run away like nothing happened. And of course when you fight back you come under scrutiny even when you are defending yourself. Why? Because it's a city job with a city agency that likes to cover its ass to the point where it harms the employee. Even if you are not in your working environment (city job or no city job) and you kill someone who is genuinely threatening your life, you have to go into some moldy f*cking court of law and prove f*cking self-defense to them. And if you don't, your ass is behind bars for protecting your God damn self.

Brilliant. Just brilliant.

 

Now, with this whole scenario going on, would you want trouble to keep brewing so that it gets to the point where every employee hates every passenger and vice versa? Certain employees lump all passengers in the same category (ex-convicts, animals, pigs, garbage, I could go on for days). Certain passengers lump all MTA employees (city employees for that matter) into the same category (lazy, overpaid, mean, angry etc). These are the nutjobs that say these things because they don't know what the hell it means to work for the city. You have to have balls to work for them. They give you a lot of shit. In fact many will tell you city employees don't make much money. They are not overpaid at all and well deserve their salary. Most of these people live modestly. I know because I know many bus operators and my father used to work for the city (not MTA though).

 

Again I ask, would you want people to keep shitting on bus operators the way they do without anything being done about it, so that when you, the innocent passenger gets on and says, "how are you doing?" to the bus operator, the bus operator either ignores you or looks at you like you have a third eye in the middle of your head? This has happened to me plenty of times but I don't make a big deal because I understand why. It's a city job. City jobs are strange.

 

Better to put the shield up so that they can avoid the whole mess I described in the first two paragraphs. At least that takes out the worst problem for them, the physical altercations. Not that it necessarily will change their outlook on the job or attitude (you can't just expect these things to change like that when these people have been dealing with the same crap for years on their jobs) but it'll at least make it better for them so you have less cases of people wondering why does the bus operator have this attitude or that expression on his/her face. Therefore making it better for them makes it better for you, the passenger. At least I think so. I don't particularly enjoy hearing about a specific group of workers getting beaten or killed on the job on a regular basis, and then absolutely nothing is done about it. It's a pain in the ass. It's like a circus. Big assault making the headlines (most B/O assaults are not even reported in the news), people crying about assault, people saying something needs to be done about it, nothing being done about it, anger over said assault dies down, rinse and repeat. The circus is in town, the ex-convicts are the big stars of the show and we are the unwilling co-stars. Now the circus will be eradicated when they finally install the shields. It's about f*cking time.

Edited by '89 Liberty MCI
Circus comment at the end

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