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Via Garibaldi 8

Mayor Bloomberg to announce $127 mil. in new program for troubled Black & Latino men

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If this were taxpayer money, I would be mad. I hate racial discrimination, but I hate affirmative action too.

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I am and I think this should be paid for completely with private funds. $67 million could be used for a number of important things like more police, firefighters, etc. This is basically one his pet projects like he did with that whole rewarding kids to go to school program. $67 million dollars is a lot money that is targeting just two groups of people and excluding any other groups that are in the same category.

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If this were taxpayer money, I would be mad. I hate racial discrimination, but I hate affirmative action too.

 

Amtrak in reply to 'affrimative action'. Is is a form of racial bias? Being honest 'yes.' However when it created in I think in the 1960's almost good paying 'blue and white collar' and executive posts in the country was held at that by White Males.

The purpose of 'affrimative action' was to hire a person of color or a woman who had 'similar or same exact' qualifications as a white man to 'diverse' the workforce in America.

 

While it is unfair to White Males, at time it was the only idea in the '60's to EVEN THE BALLFIELD with Black, Latino and Asian peoples in the work force. Whether it was in NYC working as a NYC Bus driver to stockbrokers on Wall street and even the TV News Industry. If you looked at the TV news clips from youtube prior to say 1970, almost all of those on-air people then was White Males.

 

 

Affrimative action was suppose to be only 'tempoary' for about 10-15 years. However the public schools in much of the country(let me make this clear it was not all public schools it was mostly in inner cities and the deep south) still was producing many students of 'color' who were became skilled enough for these jobs.

 

Thus up to the present day in 2011 when 'affrimative action' should be gone by now, the system has had some success in evening the playing field in employment. Still it came with a huge price. Problem again is many of the kids who suppose to benefit now in 2011 are not qualified enough. Blame lack of funding, a few unskilled teachers, and social/cultural problems, i.e being raised in 1-parent homes, etc. for the situation.

Not to mention unhappiness between the job applicant who got the job and other employees at times.

 

IMO I think affrimative action should be 'phased out' but say within 5 years. Sadly there still jobs such in the sciences that lack people of color in those industries. Yes it's a form of bias but if the people who it was suppose to help came from a better education system, it would not be needed now. What i just explained was a honest reason why it was created during the civil rights era.

I know Giarladi will probably blast it but that is from reading on the history of the topic.

 

And finally back to story. As long as the Mayor is paying this 100% out of forunates this program is a good thing.

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I'm just going to say I hope this works out. I was considered troubled when i was younger so I can relate a bit. These two groups need to get to work on a better reputation for themselves and anything that can help do that I'm supportive of.

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I'm just going to say I hope this works out. I was considered troubled when i was younger so I can relate a bit. These two groups need to get to work on a better reputation for themselves and anything that can help do that I'm supportive of.

 

That may be true, but as someone who considered teaching in the NYC School system, I can assure you that it starts at home. One of the main reasons that I turned down the position as a Spanish teacher is because teachers are expected to work miracles in the inner cities. I was told flat out in the interview that I shouldn't expect any support from the parents and basically little support from my colleagues as well, so the burden was supposed to fall right on my shoulders.

 

 

Amtrak in reply to 'affrimative action'. Is is a form of racial bias? Being honest 'yes.' However when it created in I think in the 1960's almost good paying 'blue and white collar' and executive posts in the country was held at that by White Males.

The purpose of 'affrimative action' was to hire a person of color or a woman who had 'similar or same exact' qualifications as a white man to 'diverse' the workforce in America.

 

While it is unfair to White Males, at time it was the only idea in the '60's to EVEN THE BALLFIELD with Black, Latino and Asian peoples in the work force. Whether it was in NYC working as a NYC Bus driver to stockbrokers on Wall street and even the TV News Industry. If you looked at the TV news clips from youtube prior to say 1970, almost all of those on-air people then was White Males.

 

 

Affrimative action was suppose to be only 'tempoary' for about 10-15 years. However the public schools in much of the country(let me make this clear it was not all public schools it was mostly in inner cities and the deep south) still was producing many students of 'color' who were became skilled enough for these jobs.

 

Thus up to the present day in 2011 when 'affrimative action' should be gone by now, the system has had some success in evening the playing field in employment. Still it came with a huge price. Problem again is many of the kids who suppose to benefit now in 2011 are not qualified enough. Blame lack of funding, a few unskilled teachers, and social/cultural problems, i.e being raised in 1-parent homes, etc. for the situation.

Not to mention unhappiness between the job applicant who got the job and other employees at times.

 

IMO I think affrimative action should be 'phased out' but say within 5 years. Sadly there still jobs such in the sciences that lack people of color in those industries. Yes it's a form of bias but if the people who it was suppose to help came from a better education system, it would not be needed now. What i just explained was a honest reason why it was created during the civil rights era.

I know Giarladi will probably blast it but that is from reading on the history of the topic.

 

And finally back to story. As long as the Mayor is paying this 100% out of forunates this program is a good thing.

 

Just to be clear, this is not being paid for 100% by private funds or by Bloomberg. Taxpayers are dishing out 67 million dollars for this, which is absurd when the city is supposed to be in a fiscal crisis. All the money in the world is not going to MAKE people want to work in certain fields or want to apply themselves. I don't see discrimination as an issue in certain fields like sciences, but rather that people of color stereotype themselves as being weird or freaks for going into those fields. Let's be real about the issue here. If a black guy said he was a scientist he would get looks like he was crazy from his own people nonetheless, let along anybody else, because that isn't looked at as something that blacks should be doing within their own communities. Same thing with Latinos. They would probably call the guy a wannabe for trying to further himself.

 

My point is that money isn't going to solve this problem alone. The people themselves have to get out of this BS about setting parameters about what X person can or cannot do. Until that happens I don't see much changing.

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That maybe true but as someone who considered teaching in the NY School system, I can assure you that it starts at home. One of the main reasons that I turned down the position as a Spanish teacher is because teachers are expected to work miracles in the inner cities. I was told flatout in the interview that I shouldn't expect any support from the parents and basically little support from my colleagues as well, so the burden was supposed to fall right on my shoulders.

 

 

 

Right and it absolutely should start at home. The problem is that since it doesn't start at home, these kids look to outside influences as an escape. The fact that someone even wants to try and help should be a good thing. This is the kind of world we're in. And the interviewer is absolutely right to have said that to you. He wants teachers who are willing to deal with any kind of students, perfect or not. There needs to be people who can work with these kids. And it's definitely not going to be nor is it supposed to be easy.

 

 

I'm not going to say anything about the choice you made. That's your perrogative and I'm sure you found something or are in the process of finding something that works for you. But this problem isn't going to go away and unfortunately there's more than enough evidence out there to show that not everybody who has children will raise them properly. There needs to be people who will embrace these troubled children before they get started on a mistake that will ruin their lives. Just the same as those who have already made those mistakes and feel there's no hope for a turn around. I support this idea. Only time will tell if I support how its executed.

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Right and it absolutely should start at home. The problem is that since it doesn't start at home, these kids look to outside influences as an escape. The fact that someone even wants to try and help should be a good thing. This is the kind of world we're in. And the interviewer is absolutely right to have said that to you. He wants teachers who are willing to deal with any kind of students, perfect or not. There needs to be people who can work with these kids. And it's definitely not going to be nor is it supposed to be easy.

 

 

I'm not going to say anything about the choice you made. That's your perrogative and I'm sure you found something or are in the process of finding something that works for you. But this problem isn't going to go away and unfortunately there's more than enough evidence out there to show that not everybody who has children will raise them properly. There needs to be people who will embrace these troubled children before they get started on a mistake that will ruin their lives. Just the same as those who have already made those mistakes and feel there's no hope for a turn around. I support this idea. Only time will tell if I support how its executed.

 

 

Oh this was a few years back when I first came out of college with my Spanish degree. I interviewed twice with the DOE. The first time I didn't get an invitation, but the second time I made corrections and was offered a position. Thinking that I would basically get no kind of support to deal with these troubled kids and the fact that I had many other options out there that would pay more made the choice fairly easy. It's been said that teachers aren't lasting in the system but maybe one year. You have many dedicated folks that leave their careers (some of them Wall St types, many of them paying far more than what a teacher's salary pays) and go into the field looking to make a difference, but they have NO support at all.

 

I don't think throwing money at the problem is going to help quite frankly and it should certainly not be taxpayers' money paying for this. You can't deal with a problem completely without addressing the root of the problem. That program with giving kids money to go to school was a complete waste of money IMO. Kids should not be rewarded for going to school. They should be taught that going to school is going to provide them a platform to be able to provide for themselves and their family when they become older because all that is being done is that these kids are being given the false idea that every time you do something positive you must automatically be rewarded for it immediately and life doesn't work like that.

 

These kids and these young guys need to understand that life doesn't hand you anything and that the only way to truly be successful in life is through hard work.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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Well unfortunately in this city, the only thing i know of that even tries to get to the root of the issue at home is social services which isn't amazing. The foster care system isn't all that great either so those are two things that need to be fixed. Like I said I only support the idea of the program. I need to see its execution before I give support of the actual program.

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As someone who has worked as both a Teaching Asst. and Substitute for last 4 years, I know full well what kids of 'color' and poor whites go through if they 'sell out' and leave their communities.

 

I do agree with Garbaldi to point it a whole society problem that needs to change. It maybe cool for a Black teen trying to be the 'next Lebraon or Rap Star' but the chances of getting into the music industry or the NBA is very very small. That same kid has a much better chance becoming an attorney even from poor so-called inner city or poor southern town like Jackson, Miss.

 

What I don't agree with Garbaldi is that the entire Black community frowns upon those who are college grads. In the Carribean community especially in places like NYC/NJ, Boston and Miami they tend to have both a full old school traditional family. The Carribean descent kids do much better in finishing HS and going to college than those US-Born Afro-Americans.

The American born Blacks in most cases tend to have the repeated cycle of 1-parent families and endless cycle of going to jail more than the general population etc.

 

So Garbaldi again while making a semi valid point has not seen the whole picture on the Black Community.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh this was a few years back when I first came out of college with my Spanish degree. I interviewed twice with the DOE. The first time I didn't get an invitation, but the second time I made corrections and was offered a position. Thinking that I would basically no kind of support to deal with these troubled kids and the fact that I had many other options out there that would pay more made the choice fairly easy. It's been said that teachers aren't lasting in the system but maybe one year. You have many dedicated folks that leave their careers (some of them Wall St types, many of them paying far more than what a teacher's salary pays) and go into the field looking to make a difference, but they have NO support at all.

 

I don't think throwing money at the problem is going to help quite frankly and it should certainly not be taxpayers' money paying for this. You can't deal with a problem completely without addressing the root of the problem. That program with giving kids money to go to school was a complete waste of money IMO. Kids should not be rewarded for going to school. They should be taught that going to school is going to provide them a platform to be able to provide for themselves and their family when they become older because all that is being done is that these kids are being given the false idea that every time you do something positive you must automatically be rewarded for it immediately and life doesn't work like that.

 

These kids and these young guys need to understand that life doesn't hand you anything and that the only way to truly be successful in life is through hard work.

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As someone who has worked as both a Teaching Asst. and Substitute for last 4 years, I know full well what kids of 'color' and poor whites go through if they 'sell out' and leave their communities.

 

I do agree with Garbaldi to point it a whole society problem that needs to change. It maybe cool for a Black teen trying to be the 'next Lebraon or Rap Star' but the chances of getting into the music industry or the NBA is very very small. That same kid has a much better chance becoming an attorney even from poor so-called inner city or poor southern town like Jackson, Miss.

 

What I don't agree with Garbaldi is that the entire Black community frowns upon those who are college grads. In the Carribean community especially in places like NYC/NJ, Boston and Miami they tend to have both a full old school traditional family. The Carribean descent kids do much better in finishing HS and going to college than those US-Born Afro-Americans.

The American born Blacks in most cases tend to have the repeated cycle of 1-parent families and endless cycle of going to jail more than the general population etc.

 

So Garbaldi again while making a semi valid point has not seen the whole picture on the Black Community.

 

 

That may be true, but believe me, in general, there is a sh*t load of hatred for those trying to better themselves especially in the Black community and also is true to some extent in the Latino communities. On one hand you have folks complaining about these two groups needing to be seen in a better light on the surface and yet people within these very same communities vehemently become disgusted seeing folks trying to make something of themselves, so before anyone comes out with the typical race card and discrimination argument, I say some mirror searching is in order.

 

Me already being a mixed dude, I was repeatedly called "Whitie" and "White Boy" on several occasions in college by the "tough" black guys (for which we didn't have many of minorities in general, as SUNY Plattsburgh was wery white population wise). Latinos weren't sure if I was Hispanic or not, so I got a lot of sh*t from them as well. Being half white probably helped me to some degree in terms of getting certain jobs and other things and to some degree reduced the level of hostility that I've received in the professional world, as I was sort of expected to have a good job and be smart and so on because I was half white. I would have to imagine that it must be worse for dark skinned blacks and so forth. Here and there I still get the "Stay White" comments from blacks to which I respond "Don't worry, I will". lol

 

For what it's worth when Obama made that whole speech about lack of fathers and such I found it rather interesting how pissed the black community was for "airing the dirty laundry" of their people. It's almost as if no one wants to accept responsibility and look to others to blame.

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Bro (Garibaldi) as a light skin Black man myself(my grandmom on my mom's side was born in Scotland and raised in Trindad)that exactly what i went from 'sell out' issue as a teen in high school to a smaller degree.

 

During HS when several girls tried everything to go out with me, I was 'not ready' to date let alone was sexually attracted to ladies yet, a young Black Kid then called me 'gay' for not being intrestred. At that time I was only focused on finishing HS and going to college. Thus no regrets.

 

I bring that up as the fact, the staggering high number of teenager mom especially among Black/Latina/Poor White teen girls. With certain songs and tv shows promoting sex even now on so called 'family shows' it gives mixed messages to these teens who in almost all cases are not ready for being a mom.

 

Point is while there many families of color that igorne the 'sell out' stigma and want their kids to do well and go on to being college grads.

Problem is now the general society 'rewards' more than ever living in the hood and promoting anti normal behavior.

Thus why kids off all communities in America lack skills in science and math and our country falling behind global to world powers like India and China.

I agree that the mindset had to change especially among the poorer class in America about education as the gap between rich and poor is getting worse than ever in the US.

 

 

That may be true, but believe me, in general, there is a sh*t load of hatred for those trying to better themselves especially in the Black community and also is true to some extent in the Latino communities. On one hand you have folks complaining about these two groups needing to be seen in a better light on the surface and yet people within these very same communities vehemently become disgusted seeing folks trying to make something of themselves, so before anyone comes out with the typical race card and discrimination argument, I say some mirror searching is in order.

 

Me already being a mixed dude, I was repeatedly called "Whitie" and "White Boy" on several occasions in college by the "tough" black guys (for which we didn't have many of minorities in general, as SUNY Plattsburgh was wery white population wise). Latinos weren't sure if I was Hispanic or not, so I got a lot of sh*t from them as well. Being half white probably helped me to some degree in terms of getting certain jobs and other things and to some degree reduced the level of hostility that I've received in the professional world, as I was sort of expected to have a good job and be smart and so on because I was half white. I would have to imagine that it must be worse for dark skinned blacks and so forth. Here and there I still get the "Stay White" comments from blacks to which I respond "Don't worry, I will". lol

 

For what it's worth when Obama made that whole speech about lack of fathers and such I found it rather interesting how pissed the black community was for "airing the dirty laundry" of their people. It's almost as if no one wants to accept responsibility and look to others to blame.

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Bro (Garibaldi) as a light skin Black man myself(my grandmom on my mom's side was born in Scotland and raised in Trindad)that exactly what i went from 'sell out' issue as a teen in high school to a smaller degree.

 

During HS when several girls tried everything to go out with me, I was 'not ready' to date let alone was sexually attracted to ladies yet, a young Black Kid then called me 'gay' for not being intrestred. At that time I was only focused on finishing HS and going to college. Thus no regrets.

 

I bring that up as the fact, the staggering high number of teenager mom especially among Black/Latina/Poor White teen girls. With certain songs and tv shows promoting sex even now on so called 'family shows' it gives mixed messages to these teens who in almost all cases are not ready for being a mom.

 

Point is while there many families of color that igorne the 'sell out' stigma and want their kids to do well and go on to being college grads.

Problem is now the general society 'rewards' more than ever living in the hood and promoting anti normal behavior.

Thus why kids off all communities in America lack skills in science and math and our country falling behind global to world powers like India and China.

I agree that the mindset had to change especially among the poorer class in America about education as the gap between rich and poor is getting worse than ever in the US.

 

Your experience is a typical one which I won't go into, but you know what I'm talking about in terms of how it's so "in" to be hip and live the thug life.

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Ugh. More affirmative action. Disgusting...

 

You should've seen the news conference this morning w/Bloomberg on NY1. He had so many problems saying "Latino". lol I've never heard "black" and "Latino" used so much in 5 minutes before. Every other sentence was "black" this and "Latino" that. :eek:

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This is not affirmative action by any means. Giving fathers parenting classes and urging people to get driver licenses? Not affirmative action. Retraining probabtion officers? That will be beneficial to all of the people being overseen by the probabtion officer.

 

The idea of linking literacy classes to a paying job isn't the same thing as saying that all public high school will give preferential treatment to minorities or anything like that. THere are already programs like this one that are available to poor new yorkers of all races, this is simply one that focuses on Blacks and Latinos.

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This is not affirmative action by any means. Giving fathers parenting classes and urging people to get driver licenses? Not affirmative action. Retraining probabtion officers? That will be beneficial to all of the people being overseen by the probabtion officer.

 

The idea of linking literacy classes to a paying job isn't the same thing as saying that all public high school will give preferential treatment to minorities or anything like that. THere are already programs like this one that are available to poor new yorkers of all races, this is simply one that focuses on Blacks and Latinos.

 

Well that's my issue with it. It should be for everyone. Imagine the uproar if there was a program targeted specifically at Whites... I could see it now. ;)

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Do you people just not, y'know, read?

 

It's a job-recruitment center in poor districts / projects --> not affirmative action, and a great thing

It's retraining probations officers --> not a.a., and good for everybody

It's fatherhood classes --> not a.a., and a bit pushy if you ask me, but well-intentioned

It's reanalyzing how our schools treat minorities --> not a.a., and very important

 

I don't think this is the best way Bloomberg could have approached these issues, but I think it's a good thing, and I like that he and Soros are splitting half of the tab. To call it affirmative action is just ignorant, and to say it would be an uproar if it were for white people -- that's ignorant too, because the white community has put itself in a place where it doesn't need this kind of help, generally at the expense of minorities. You can ignore history all you want, but while this program is imperfect, to call it simply affirmative action is truly ignorant.

 

 

Half the tab??? You must have missed the part that stated that taxpayers will be dishing out 67 million dollars for this program. I'm sorry but a city that is supposedly in a fiscal crisis should not be spending 67 million on a program like this. We've got crime on the rise and that money could be used to hire more police officers. If Bloomberg likes the program so much he should've covered the 67 million as well as the portion he gave originally. :mad: :tdown:

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I am and I think this should be paid for completely with private funds. $67 million could be used for a number of important things like more police, firefighters, etc. This is basically one his pet projects like he did with that whole rewarding kids to go to school program. $67 million dollars is a lot money that is targeting just two groups of people and excluding any other groups that are in the same category.

 

Well that's my issue with it. It should be for everyone. Imagine the uproar if there was a program targeted specifically at Whites... I could see it now. ;)

 

...as if the black & latino community twisted Mayor Bloomberg's arm in all this... as if they're in cahoots with each other... as if other communities don't have their own "programs"....

 

It's only a problem when something... anything POSITIVE gets implemented that's in some form or fashion, curtailed to minorities.... That's when monies from taxes should be used elsewhere huh....

 

You know good and well you didn't bring this up b/c taxpayer dollars were involved... It had everything to do with leaving troubled non-minorities out of the mix... as if there's NO avenues non-minority troubled men can engage in attempting to get their lives back on the right track....

 

When a troubled white man seeking assistance from this program gets rejected & banished, get back at me....

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...as if the black & latino community twisted Mayor Bloomberg's arm in all this... as if they're in cahoots with each other... as if other communities don't have their own "programs"....

 

It's only a problem when something... anything POSITIVE gets implemented that's in some form or fashion, curtailed to minorities.... That's when monies from taxes should be used elsewhere huh....

 

You know good and well you didn't bring this up b/c taxpayer dollars were involved... It had everything to do with leaving troubled non-minorities out of the mix... as if there's NO avenues non-minority troubled men can engage in attempting to get their lives back on the right track....

 

When a troubled white man seeking assistance from this program gets rejected & banished, get back at me....

 

Even if it included everyone, I still don't think taxpayer money should be used for a program like this. I can think of a lot better things to do with 67 million dollars. Now if the program goes bust there is going to be a lot of explaining that'll need to be done. I also don't understand how the city was in such dire straits just a few months ago, but suddenly they've got 67 million to burn on a risky program like this. Why not just fund this program entirely with private funds? I mean we had firehouses on the brink of closing, budget cuts to police officers, but yet there is money for a program that may or may not even work. That's insane and you know it. The safety of the general public should always come before any sort of "pie in the sky" programs.

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Even if it included everyone, I still don't think taxpayer money should be used for a program like this. I can think of a lot better things to do with 67 million dollars. Now if the program goes bust there is going to be a lot of explaining that'll need to be done. I also don't understand how the city was in such dire straits just a few months ago, but suddenly they've got 67 million to burn on a risky program like this. Why not just fund this program entirely with private funds? I mean we had firehouses on the brink of closing, budget cuts to police officers, but yet there is money for a program that may or may not even work. That's insane and you know it. The safety of the general public should always come before any sort of "pie in the sky" programs.

If it included everyone, we wouldn't be having this discussion....

 

You're using the debt crisis to springboard the underlying issue you have w/ such a program..... That's all this is.... That very last sentence of yours there is telling, on 2 different fronts....

 

I could think of other things that can be done w/ 67 million also.... We all could....

My thing is, where was all this talk about spending taxpayer money on other entities before you caught wind of this latest program....

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If it included everyone, we wouldn't be having this discussion....

 

You're using the debt crisis to springboard the underlying issue you have w/ such a program..... That's all this is.... That very last sentence of yours there is telling, on 2 different fronts....

 

I could think of other things that can be done w/ 67 million also.... We all could....

My thing is, where was all this talk about spending taxpayer money on other entities before you caught wind of this latest program....

 

 

If you've saw other posts of mine, I have always been fiscally conservative when it comes to taxpayer dollars. I believe in low taxes and you can't have low taxes having all of these social programs around. Crime is on the rise and I think it's insane to give 67 million to a program when we have a shortage of cops and firehouses were just on the chopping block a few months ago. Need I mind you that those same firehouses will be on the list to be closed come next year and that 67 million could go towards that and save some innocent lives.

 

Hell I wasn't exactly an angel growing up either and I didn't have some social program to run to and shower me with me money to "fix me". I really don't see why a program like this needs millions of dollars to begin with let along taxpayer dollars. It's ridiculous and I have no problem saying it. I would be saying the same thing if it were any other group getting these services. I'm sure I'll be painted as the racist dude because minorities are involved but so be it.

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If you've saw other posts of mine, I have always been fiscally conservative when it comes to taxpayer dollars. I believe in low taxes and you can't have low taxes having all of these social programs around. Crime is on the rise and I think it's insane to give 67 million to a program when we have a shortage of cops and firehouses were just on the chopping block a few months ago. Need I mind you that those same firehouses will be on the list to be closed come next year and that 67 million could go towards that and save some innocent lives.

 

Hell I wasn't exactly an angel growing up either and I didn't have some social program to run to and shower me with me money to "fix me". I really don't see why a program like this needs millions of dollars to begin with let along taxpayer dollars. It's ridiculous and I have no problem saying it. I would be saying the same thing if it were any other group getting these services. I'm sure I'll be painted as the racist dude because minorities are involved but so be it.

I don't believe that, but w/e.... you'd probably say somthing like 'good for them', or something to that effect.... and I most certainly believe you wouldn't have made a thread out of it.... that's how outraged you were.... and don't tell me you started this thread b/c you wanted to inform ppl of this program.....

 

Oh, I believe you when you say you feel it's ridiculous - especially when you keep telling on yourself with the little innuendos you make in regards to this program so far.... "pie in the sky" program, a program to "fix me"... I mean, these are your words....

 

One instance it's about the 67 million, and in the next, you bring up fairness... Don't tell me you'd say the same thing about it being ridiculous if it were any other group this was curtailed to, when you blatantly say It should be for everyone..... If something is so ridiculous, it should be for NO ONE.....

 

If it's anyone for any reason that'll paint you as anything after reading this thread, it's your own fault.

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