Port Authority plans $4 toll hike next month on bridges and tunnels

[checkmatechamp13]

See this article: http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/08/port_authority_plans_4_toll_hi.html

 

Don't they have to give more notice than a month to have a fare/toll hike?

 

I wonder what will happen to the carpool discount. Currently, it is $2 per trip.

 

On the bright side: Hopefully this will spur the creation of more routes traversing the Port Authority Bridges. Living in Staten Island, there is really no alternative to driving over the Goethals or Outerbridge to reach NJ.

[Amtrak7]

Details:

 

-Off peak toll to $10; peak to $12 ($12/$14 in 2014)

-Cash surcharge of $3 ($5 in 2014)

-SI residents still get 50% discount

-PATH base fare to $2.75; monthly to $89; multi-trip discounts remain

 

Never did we expect NYCT fares to be LOWER than PA fares!

 

But also expect higher NJT interstate fares.

[Shortline Bus]

Details:

 

-Off peak toll to $10; peak to $12 ($12/$14 in 2014)

-Cash surcharge of $3 ($5 in 2014)

-SI residents still get 50% discount

-PATH base fare to $2.75; monthly to $89; multi-trip discounts remain

 

Never did we expect NYCT fares to be LOWER than PA fares!

 

But also expect higher NJT interstate fares.

 

 

What about e-z for drivers like me? And Amtrak you got my PM from other day.

[checkmatechamp13]

Second Avenue Sagas also made an article about this. Apparently, it is supposedly to pay for some capital projects: http://secondavenuesagas.com/2011/08/05/in-pa-budget-path-fares-up-57-percent/#comments

[SirJokaPlaya]

What about e-z for drivers like me? And Amtrak you got my PM from other day.

 

From what I read, E-Z Pass will be charged $12.

 

How much ya wanna bet this is gonna effect fares for NJ Transit INTERSTATE travel-wise?

[Pablo M 201]

I can see NJT announcing a fare hike in the near future....

There's been buzzing about one lately anyway.

 

But that's crazy, almost 3 bucks for PATH. Being an essential part of my commute, the alternatives are no where near as good to try and take NJT into the city everyday. It's just having to deal with the fare hike. But Port Authority will hear my voice on this one, and I'm sure from other regulars as well.

 

Hmmm.....how about not building a fancy transit hub at the WTC.....

If anything, the way the station looked when it reopened in 2003 was awesome. That structure on Church Street was pretty cool, I'll be glad to have that back. That's probably millions saved instantly.....

[Nexis4Jersey]

They better give us disabled ppl a Smartlink discount card , there the only system without a disabled discount.

[Shortline Bus]

From what I read, E-Z Pass will be charged $12.

 

How much ya wanna bet this is gonna effect fares for NJ Transit INTERSTATE travel-wise?

 

Damn. I guess i will use the Tappan Zee more frequent then if i am near the GW Bridge in Bergen/Rockland when i can.

 

Also will use the Staten Island crossing 'less' i.e Gotheals when driving to S Brooklyn or SI from where i live in Dutchess County.

[checkmatechamp13]

I think the carpool rate will be $6 all times instead of $2.

 

I can't believe where and when they're holding the hearing: 8AM at Howland Hook. That's a great way to get public input: Hold the hearing in the middle of nowhere at a time when everybody's going to work. :mad:

 

I found that here: http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2011/08/port_authority_pulling_a_fast.html (I could've sworn there was a link with the list of all of the hearing locations)

[qjtransitmaster]

Damn. I guess i will use the Tappan Zee more frequent then if i am near the GW Bridge in Bergen/Rockland when i can.

 

Also will use the Staten Island crossing 'less' i.e Gotheals when driving to S Brooklyn or SI from where i live in Dutchess County.

 

why don't you just use metro north you can drive to it. The train is much more convenient I always use the train when visiting dutchess from brooklyn. That drive is so unnessesary.

[Shortline Bus]

why don't you just use metro north you can drive to it. The train is much more convenient I always use the train when visiting dutchess from brooklyn. That drive is so unnessesary.

 

Lets see trainmaster. First no offense but if you read my other posts i almost always use Metro North when going to say Manhattan or Downtown Brooklyn.

I been around the block longer than you so let me choose when i drive or use metro north/mass transit ok.:eek:

 

However if you going to say most of Northern NJ (other than the Path line)or SE Queens where few of my cousins live, it easier to drive. Better than taking the (Q111) (Q113) than the train back to Lex-53rd and then the train.

Lots of transfers.

Or going down to Southern NJ where my brothers live.

 

And may i ask QJtrainmaster how old are you? Here in Ducthess having a car is almost a must. Again i am a grown man let me decide what form of mass transit to use.

[qjtransitmaster]

well moral of the story is GET AN EZPASS if you don't want to pay an arm and leg to enter NYC. Good for those ******** who insist on holding up traffic cause they want to pay cash. With this more EZpass holders and less backups this can reduce traffic a bit thanks to less cash ppl meaning less standing at the toll and less dwell times at tolls increasing travel speeds and reducing cash delays. I say give NJT a discount to use the tunnels and bridges.

 

Let the cash paying fools suffer.

[qjtransitmaster]

Lets see trainmaster. First no offense but if you read my other posts i almost always use Metro North when going to say Manhattan or Downtown Brooklyn.

I been around the block longer than you so let me choose when i drive or use metro north/mass transit ok.:eek:

 

However if you going to say most of Northern NJ (other than the Path line)or SE Queens where few of my cousins live, it easier to drive. Better than taking the (Q111) (Q113) than the train back to Lex-53rd and then the train.

Lots of transfers.

Or going down to Southern NJ where my brothers live.

 

And may i ask QJtrainmaster how old are you? Here in Ducthess having a car is almost a must. Again i am a grown man let me decide what form of mass transit to use.

Interesting so SE queens and northern NJ have gaps??

 

I am 22 I know I have my friends in dutchess pick me up at the train station cause dutchess loop is too horrible and impossible to use I gave up on them.

 

It looks you have identified something owell

[nyland8]

Say it ain't so!! After reading the list of capital projects to be financed by the PATH fare increase, I am absolutely baffled. GWB repairs !!??!! Lincoln Tunnel helix work ??!!?? Since when does anybody think it's a good idea to use commuter mass transit fees to subsidize road work ??? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

 

The tunnels and bridges are already over-congested, and the PA thinks discouraging PATH ridership with a fare hike is somehow a viable solution. ??? What-in-the-hell are they smoking?

 

In a sane world, road tolls - bridge and tunnel tolls - should be raised to allocate more money to mass transit for capital improvements and to KEEP THE FARES DOWN. Instead, in the bizarro world of the Port Authority, raising commuter rail fees is a reasonable approach to generating more congestion by getting more cars and trucks into the city. Why should infrastructure improvements for automobile traffic be subsidized by the sane, socially conscious people who make the effort, and often the sacrifice, of using mass transit every day?

 

What am I missing?

 

It is long past time to subsume the PATH train system into the MTA. People in Essex and Hudson Counties in New Jersey, and the boroughs of New York City, live in one metropolitan area with high population density, and we don't need a disintegrated mass-transit system.

 

How do we create the public will - the political pressure - to make the two systems one? The PATH can be run as a "C" division, a single Metro Card swipe can work in both states, and all future decisions regarding expansion and interconnectivity can originate from a single vision that best serves the regional mass-transit interests as a whole, unaffected by automobile considerations.

 

For decisions affecting a subway to be made by a board of directors that has to concern itself with auto traffic is a direct conflict of interest. Any mandate that comes out of that conflicted body can't serve the best mass-transit interests of the region.

 

They are at odds with themselves!

[Shortline Bus]

Replies.

 

First up here in car country where i live in Ducthess County, NY, the local blogs of area papers i.e Orange County Times-Hearld, Poughkeepsie Journal etc some drivers are blaming the Path riders for the fare hike and want the fare to be higher.

 

Second the has it's own problems and not sure them taking over Path in this recession(woops can we say the "D" aka depression word soon :eek: ) is a good idea right now.

Maybe a better idea is for Path to be it's own agency and not at mercy of the PANYNJ.

 

Third i think tolls woops i mean 'congestion pricing' entering Manhattan's CBD between South Ferry and 59th should be looked at again. If created all funds must go to either road/bridge infrastructure or transit related issues only.

 

Just my takes.

 

 

 

Say it ain't so!! After reading the list of capital projects to be financed by the PATH fare increase, I am absolutely baffled. GWB repairs !!??!! Lincoln Tunnel helix work ??!!?? Since when does anybody think it's a good idea to use commuter mass transit fees to subsidize road work ??? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

 

The tunnels and bridges are already over-congested, and the PA thinks discouraging PATH ridership with a fare hike is somehow a viable solution. ??? What-in-the-hell are they smoking?

 

In a sane world, road tolls - bridge and tunnel tolls - should be raised to allocate more money to mass transit for capital improvements and to KEEP THE FARES DOWN. Instead, in the bizarro world of the Port Authority, raising commuter rail fees is a reasonable approach to generating more congestion by getting more cars and trucks into the city. Why should infrastructure improvements for automobile traffic be subsidized by the sane, socially conscious people who make the effort, and often the sacrifice, of using mass transit every day?

 

What am I missing?

 

It is long past time to subsume the PATH train system into the MTA. People in Essex and Hudson Counties in New Jersey, and the boroughs of New York City, live in one metropolitan area with high population density, and we don't need a disintegrated mass-transit system.

 

How do we create the public will - the political pressure - to make the two systems one? The PATH can be run as a "C" division, a single Metro Card swipe can work in both states, and all future decisions regarding expansion and interconnectivity can originate from a single vision that best serves the regional mass-transit interests as a whole, unaffected by automobile considerations.

 

For decisions affecting a subway to be made by a board of directors that has to concern itself with auto traffic is a direct conflict of interest. Any mandate that comes out of that conflicted body can't serve the best mass-transit interests of the region.

 

They are at odds with themselves!

[Amtrak7]

Congestion pricing is a VERY good idea, I don't know why it was met with opposition. My idea:

 

 

 

• Repeal the PMT (payroll tax)
  
• Dual-direction VZ bridge tolling
  
• East River bridge toll matches express bus fare
  
• Harlem River bridge toll matches local bus fare
  
• VZ bridge toll is express bus fare + $1
  
• Port Authority bridge toll roundtrip is 2x the express bus fare plus $2
  
• Rockaway bridges are free
  
• Manhattan CBD entry fee is charged for entry south of 86 St
  
• Fee is waived on transit buses, bikes, city/state gov vehicles, carpools of 3 or more, motorcycles, plug-in hybrid or electric vehicles, long-distance buses discharging/receiving passengers in the CBD, and delivery/service vehicles conducting business in the CBD.
  
• Single-passenger cars pay $25 during rush hours, $15 other times, $5 at night (midnight-5AM)
  
• 2-passenger cars pay $20 during rush hours, $10 other times, free at night
  
• Through trucks prohibited except midnight-5AM when they pay $25; through tractor-trailers forbidden.
  
• Tolls paid within 60 minutes of entering CBD are subtracted from CBD fee for EZ-Pass users. Cash customers pay everything.
  

 

[Shortline Bus]

Replies in red. Amtrak did you get my PM from few days ago on affrmative action?

 

Congestion pricing is a VERY good idea, I don't know why it was met with opposition. My idea:

 

 

 

• Repeal the PMT (payroll tax)-maybe
  
• Dual-direction VZ bridge tolling-Agree. However not happening as work is almost done to remove the old brooklyn bound toll plaza.
  
• East River bridge toll matches express bus fare-Maybe. To calm down drivers, Manhattan tolls should be 'free' on weekend and between 8pm-6am weekdays.
  
• Harlem River bridge toll matches local bus fare-That should be 'free.' Other than rush hours, the traffic is not bad on the need for any Bronx-Manhattan tolls.
• VZ bridge toll is express bus fare + $1
  
• Port Authority bridge toll roundtrip is 2x the express bus fare plus $2
  You making it more complex than needed in this idea.
   
   
  
• Rockaway bridges are free-That would be great.
   
  
• Manhattan CBD entry fee is charged for entry south of 86 St-People will go nuts. You underestimating the car owners here. Weekday tolls until 8pm should work.
• Fee is waived on transit buses, bikes, city/state gov vehicles, carpools of 3 or more, motorcycles, plug-in hybrid or electric vehicles, long-distance buses discharging/receiving passengers in the CBD, and delivery/service vehicles conducting business in the CBD.
  No brainer and a start before you mention congestion pricing.
   
  
• Single-passenger cars pay $25 during rush hours, $15 other times, $5 at night (midnight-5AM)
  Car Owners will riot and that plan will be stopped in tracks. Got to have a 'free period' of at least weekends/Overnights as a starter. Not to mention not all subway NJT/LIRR/Metro North and Bus lines runs 24/7..
   
  
• 2-passenger cars pay $20 during rush hours, $10 other times, free at night
  
• Through trucks prohibited except midnight-5AM when they pay $25; through tractor-trailers forbidden.
  I see you love mass transit dont you and will never own a car when you grow up lol. Then seriously expect your grocery bill to go up. Try thinking of paying at least $6-$7 for gallon of milk if you live in NYC.
   
  
• Tolls paid within 60 minutes of entering CBD are subtracted from CBD fee for EZ-Pass users. Cash customers pay everything.
  

 

 

Replies in red.

[nyland8]

Well, Shortline, regarding your first point - the articles written on the subject are clear.

1) GWB repairs

2) Lincoln Tunnel Helix

3) Raising Bayonne Bridge

4) New Bus Garage

5) Regional Airport Security

 

 

Those are the PA's stated reasons for the fare hikes - and none of them has anything to do with the PATH system. So no matter what the locals up in Duchess County think, none of the above stated issues should be blamed on the PATH ridership.

 

Regarding your second point, I don't know what a recession would have to do with the issue at all. The transition is largely political, and any costs can be kicked down the road, perhaps with a bi-State bond issue. Ultimately, the improved utilization of the PATH system would more than make up for it with added revenues.

 

The Port Authority needs to be convinced that they should divest themselves of the PATH system ... period. It's out of their core business. They don't regulate interstate train traffic. Amtrak, Metro North and NJ Transit all operate interstate trains without any Port Authority oversight or blessings. And with good reason - because a commuter subway is outside their mandate. Once the PATH system is subsumed into the MTA, the entire regional mass-transit landscape becomes transformed.

 

Regarding your third point, I agree. Personally, I think 'congestion pricing' revenues would best be applied to subway expansion into New Jersey - because that is where so much of Manhattan's congestion comes from. Just look at the numbers that use the Lincoln, Holland and GW crossings every day.

 

Up there in car country, your mass-transit options are minimized - largely because of lack of population density. But down here, so much more can be done to make the region livable - in other words, reduce pollution, reduce congestion, reduce commuting hours and generally improve the quality of life.

 

Doing away with PATH is part of that formula.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Well, Shortline, regarding your first point - the articles written on the subject are clear.

1) GWB repairs

2) Lincoln Tunnel Helix

3) Raising Bayonne Bridge

4) New Bus Garage

5) Regional Airport Security

 

 

Those are the PA's stated reasons for the fare hikes - and none of them has anything to do with the PATH system. So no matter what the locals up in Duchess County think, none of the above stated issues should be blamed on the PATH ridership.

 

Regarding your second point, I don't know what a recession would have to do with the issue at all. The transition is largely political, and any costs can be kicked down the road, perhaps with a bi-State bond issue. Ultimately, the improved utilization of the PATH system would more than make up for it with added revenues.

 

The Port Authority needs to be convinced that they should divest themselves of the PATH system ... period. It's out of their core business. They don't regulate interstate train traffic. Amtrak, Metro North and NJ Transit all operate interstate trains without any Port Authority oversight or blessings. And with good reason - because a commuter subway is outside their mandate. Once the PATH system is subsumed into the MTA, the entire regional mass-transit landscape becomes transformed.

 

Regarding your third point, I agree. Personally, I think 'congestion pricing' revenues would best be applied to subway expansion into New Jersey - because that is where so much of Manhattan's congestion comes from. Just look at the numbers that use the Lincoln, Holland and GW crossings every day.

 

Up there in car country, your mass-transit options are minimized - largely because of lack of population density. But down here, so much more can be done to make the region livable - in other words, reduce pollution, reduce congestion, reduce commuting hours and generally improve the quality of life.

 

Doing away with PATH is part of that formula.

 

They are and have been upgrading the PATH where have you been?

 

-Replacing the Harrison Station

-Gutting the Hoboken Entrances

-Upgrading the Signals

-Building a WTC station

-Replacing the Journal SQ station in the coming decade or in the 2020s...

-Adding Platform Screen doors to Newport and overhauling that station

-Extension to EWR with 2 or 4 New stations

-Replacing the Older Fleet

-Expanding and overhauling the yards

 

The Subway extension to NJ , is a wasteful project....keep the systems within there boundaries..... The PATH needs to stay seperate from the MTA , it is not a subway , and mainly serves New Jersey....

[checkmatechamp13]

Interesting so SE queens and northern NJ have gaps??

 

I am 22 I know I have my friends in dutchess pick me up at the train station cause dutchess loop is too horrible and impossible to use I gave up on them.

 

It looks you have identified something owell

 

They don't have gaps in service, but it's still hard to get from Poughkeepsie down to Southeast Queens by transit. He would have to take (relatively infrequent) Metro-North to Grand Central, take the train to 51st Street, take the train to Jamaica, and then take another bus to his destination.

 

I didn't realize you're 22. By the way you typed, I thought you were a teenager. Seriously, I'm not being mean: In order to be taken seriously, you have to present your ideas in a coherent manner (though I'll give you credit in improving with that lately)

 

Say it ain't so!! After reading the list of capital projects to be financed by the PATH fare increase, I am absolutely baffled. GWB repairs !!??!! Lincoln Tunnel helix work ??!!?? Since when does anybody think it's a good idea to use commuter mass transit fees to subsidize road work ??? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

 

The tunnels and bridges are already over-congested, and the PA thinks discouraging PATH ridership with a fare hike is somehow a viable solution. ??? What-in-the-hell are they smoking?

 

 

They're increasing the tolls as well, so there isn't going to be any shift from PATH to the tunnels. In any case, the tolls would still be subsidizing the PATH.

 

Congestion pricing is a VERY good idea, I don't know why it was met with opposition. My idea:

 

 

 

• Repeal the PMT (payroll tax)

• Dual-direction VZ bridge tolling

• East River bridge toll matches express bus fare

• Harlem River bridge toll matches local bus fare

• VZ bridge toll is express bus fare + $1

• Port Authority bridge toll roundtrip is 2x the express bus fare plus $2

• Rockaway bridges are free

• Manhattan CBD entry fee is charged for entry south of 86 St

• Fee is waived on transit buses, bikes, city/state gov vehicles, carpools of 3 or more, motorcycles, plug-in hybrid or electric vehicles, long-distance buses discharging/receiving passengers in the CBD, and delivery/service vehicles conducting business in the CBD.

• Single-passenger cars pay $25 during rush hours, $15 other times, $5 at night (midnight-5AM)

• 2-passenger cars pay $20 during rush hours, $10 other times, free at night

• Through trucks prohibited except midnight-5AM when they pay $25; through tractor-trailers forbidden.

• Tolls paid within 60 minutes of entering CBD are subtracted from CBD fee for EZ-Pass users. Cash customers pay everything.

 

 

The problem is that they took down the booths for the VZ Bridge. With EZ-Pass, I don't see how the toll booths really slow traffic down. If anything, it's good to have the traffic slow down a bit to avoid accidents, since the highway becomes very wide because of the two levels.

 

Everything else I agree with except that I think the congestion pricing fee is too high. I support a high fee, but I think $25 is a bit much, even during rush hours.

 

In any case, I think congestion pricing was a no-brainer. And the people who truly needed to pass through Manhattan (traveling between NJ and the outer boroughs) wouldn't see a single cent increase, since the congestion pricing fee would be subtracted from the tolls.

 

The Port Authority needs to be convinced that they should divest themselves of the PATH system ... period. It's out of their core business. They don't regulate interstate train traffic. Amtrak, Metro North and NJ Transit all operate interstate trains without any Port Authority oversight or blessings. And with good reason - because a commuter subway is outside their mandate. Once the PATH system is subsumed into the MTA, the entire regional mass-transit landscape becomes transformed.

 

 

Actually, the Port Authority is involved with NJT and Amtrak, since they cross state lines. I don't know if they share any revenue, but routes that cross state lines require Port Authority approval.

[lilbluefoxie]

They don't have gaps in service, but it's still hard to get from Poughkeepsie down to Southeast Queens by transit. He would have to take (relatively infrequent) Metro-North to Grand Central, take the train to 51st Street, take the train to Jamaica, and then take another bus to his destination.

 

I didn't realize you're 22. By the way you typed, I thought you were a teenager. Seriously, I'm not being mean: In order to be taken seriously, you have to present your ideas in a coherent manner (though I'll give you credit in improving with that lately)

 

 

 

They're increasing the tolls as well, so there isn't going to be any shift from PATH to the tunnels. In any case, the tolls would still be subsidizing the PATH.

 

 

 

The problem is that they took down the booths for the VZ Bridge. With EZ-Pass, I don't see how the toll booths really slow traffic down. If anything, it's good to have the traffic slow down a bit to avoid accidents, since the highway becomes very wide because of the two levels.

 

Everything else I agree with except that I think the congestion pricing fee is too high. I support a high fee, but I think $25 is a bit much, even during rush hours.

 

In any case, I think congestion pricing was a no-brainer. And the people who truly needed to pass through Manhattan (traveling between NJ and the outer boroughs) wouldn't see a single cent increase, since the congestion pricing fee would be subtracted from the tolls.

 

 

 

Actually, the Port Authority is involved with NJT and Amtrak, since they cross state lines. I don't know if they share any revenue, but routes that cross state lines require Port Authority approval.

 

the port authority should have sold the trade center then to a private developer if they were low on cash. Or disband the PA Police, why do we need them if we have the NYPD already? What does an already semi-useless agency need to also own a skyscraper? Let em stick to fixing bridges and tunnels and operating the 3 NYC area airports, PATH I agree needs to be spun off onto its own agency.

[Shortline Bus]

the port authority should have sold the trade center then to a private developer if they were low on cash. Or disband the PA Police, why do we need them if we have the NYPD already? What does an already semi-useless agency need to also own a skyscraper? Let em stick to fixing bridges and tunnels and operating the 3 NYC area airports, PATH I agree needs to be spun off onto its own agency.

 

 

Agree 100%. You still need a PA Police at the bridges/crossings of Metro NYC/NJ and at Newark-Liberty. However the NYPD/TSA should patrol JFK and LGA IMO. And if PATCO can run 'independently' away from (SEPTA) their rapid transit in the Philly/South Jersey area, PATH can do the same in the metro area.

[checkmatechamp13]

I believe PATCO is run by the Delaware River Port Authority.

[nyland8]

Nexis4Jersey

 

Where have I been? I've been paying attention. None of those ongoing, already funded PATH projects you listed were cited as reasons for the toll and fare increases. I'm just basing my argument on the facts stated in the article. You can feel free to make up your own as you wish.

 

As far as "keeping the systems within there (sp) boundaries", they have no boundaries ... other than those fictitiously imposed upon them by political agreement ... the most gossamer of all. When Bloomberg speculated about running the 7 train over to Lautenberg Station, he understood that it could effectively serve the same purpose as the ARC project without building the equivalent of a skyscraper under midtown. And Christie's response was that it would be great for New Jerseyans to finally have access to the east side. From the standpoint of the public served, it would be anything but a "wasteful project". Quite the contrary in fact, it could effectively do exactly what the underground skyscraper would do... better, in fact - which is to distribute commuters across the Manhattan subway lines - at a fifth of the cost. That's not wasteful - that's a bargain!

 

And no, the PATH doesn't "need to stay separate from the MTA". I guess my argument on population density and mass-transit decisions based on regional needs is lost on you.

 

And the last time I looked up the definition of "subway" ... well ... I suggest you look it up yourself.

 

 

@ checkmatechamp13

 

NO ... the Port Authority has NO authority over Amtrak. The Port Authority is simply a bi-State political concoction between New York and New Jersey, and it has NO power whatsoever other than that which those two States invest in it. Metro North travels interstate into Connecticut and runs routes through New Jersey to Port Jervis, and there is no separate quasi-governmental interstate authority that governs its movement either. Likewise NJ Transit trains, which are completely independent of it.

 

In short, there is no reason whatsoever that the PATH subway system cannot become a "C" division of the MTA - and there are lots of very good reasons that it should, not the least of which is that it would be the quickest and cheapest way to connect Staten Island to the rest of the boroughs by commuter train.

[nyland8]

Nexis4Jersey

 

Where have I been? I've been paying attention. None of those ongoing, already funded PATH projects you listed were cited as reasons for the toll and fare increases. I'm just basing my argument on the facts stated in the article. You can feel free to make up your own as you wish.

 

As far as "keeping the systems within there (sp) boundaries", they have no boundaries ... other than those fictitiously imposed upon them by political agreement ... the most gossamer of all. When Bloomberg speculated about running the 7 train over to Lautenberg Station, he understood that it could effectively serve the same purpose as the ARC project without building the equivalent of a skyscraper under midtown. And Christie's response was that it would be great for New Jerseyans to finally have access to the east side. From the standpoint of the public served, it would be anything but a "wasteful project". Quite the contrary in fact, it could effectively do exactly what the underground skyscraper would do... better, in fact - which is to distribute commuters across the Manhattan subway lines - at a fifth of the cost. That's not wasteful - that's a bargain!

 

And no, the PATH doesn't "need to stay separate from the MTA". I guess my argument on population density and mass-transit decisions based on regional needs is lost on you.

 

And the last time I looked up the definition of "subway" ... well ... I suggest you look it up yourself.

 

 

@ checkmatechamp13

 

NO ... the Port Authority has NO authority over Amtrak. The Port Authority is simply a bi-State political concoction between New York and New Jersey, and it has NO power whatsoever other than that which those two States invest in it. Metro North travels interstate into Connecticut and runs routes through New Jersey to Port Jervis, and there is no separate quasi-governmental interstate authority that governs its movement either. Likewise NJ Transit trains, which are completely independent of it.

 

In short, there is no reason whatsoever that the PATH subway system cannot become a "C" division of the MTA - and there are lots of very good reasons that it should, not the least of which is that it would be the quickest and cheapest way to connect Staten Island to the rest of the boroughs by commuter train.