Far Rock Depot Posted August 21, 2011 Share #26 Posted August 21, 2011 From an engineering standpoint, It IS possible to bring back the 44s. It may require a total rebuild from the frame up for it to happen. SEPTA did a full rebuild on their old 1930's PCC's, around 23 total, for restoration of Rt 15 Trolley service. For them, it was more cost effective than ordering new cars. Now a subway car is way more expencive to rebuild than a streetcar. and we all know the MTA is crying broke, and already has plans to rebuild (im guessing 64) R46s for SIR use. Now if the rebuild is cost effective inthe long run, and do it in house, the rumor (read that again RUMOR) may be real. But ONLY time will tell right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted August 21, 2011 Share #27 Posted August 21, 2011 Thank you for saying my point. If the R44's are to be rebuilt you must rebuild them from bottom up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Far Rock Depot Posted August 21, 2011 Share #28 Posted August 21, 2011 Thank you for saying my point. If the R44's are to be rebuilt you must rebuild them from bottom up. Its not a secret to why they were retired early in the first place. The band around its belly along with most of the frame is made from Carbon steel. The 46s have Stainless steel. Stainless steel lasts! Its why the 32s are kick ass! and in 20 years so will the 62s like the 32s! For the 44s to be allowed back in revenue, theyll have to be stripped to the bones first, then replace some of its bones. you can say "T/Os told me. Dispatchers told me." Now we all know that those arent really the best sources of accurate info(with the exception of plenty here in the community! Much props!). Now if you talk to engineers, thats straight from the horses mouth! And the 44s carbon stell has been having them thinkin for a long time. It just came earlier than expected. Parcially due to the life of those Redbird troopers!! Not all cars will stand the test of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric B Posted August 21, 2011 Share #29 Posted August 21, 2011 It is possible that not all cars have the frame rot found in the car they tested. So when they found that car, they yanked the whole fleet to be safe, but if they're desperate enough, they might be inspecting them all to see if there are some that are safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Far Rock Depot Posted August 22, 2011 Share #30 Posted August 22, 2011 It is possible that not all cars have the frame rot found in the car they tested. So when they found that car, they yanked the whole fleet to be safe, but if they're desperate enough, they might be inspecting them all to see if there are some that are safe. Thats a great point right there! example: SIRs are still going! Maybe the ones that are in storage have the most hope ? A "just in case"? arent there 64 left? if so...hmmmmmm......... I think i may have figured out one of their "just in cases"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted August 22, 2011 Share #31 Posted August 22, 2011 The ones on the SIR are still going, but they aren't doing well, and they are suffering the problems the other R44's that were retired are suffering. They were supposed to be replaced with new cars, but since the can't afford that they would run hand me down R46's instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Far Rock Depot Posted August 22, 2011 Share #32 Posted August 22, 2011 The ones on the SIR are still going, but they aren't doing well, and they are suffering the problems the other R44's that were retired are suffering. They were supposed to be replaced with new cars, but since the can't afford that they would run hand me down R46's instead. True. But "what if" something happens to those 46s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ MC Posted August 22, 2011 Share #33 Posted August 22, 2011 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted August 22, 2011 Share #34 Posted August 22, 2011 Is it possible that during the 1970s and 1980s the lack of maintenance might have played a role in the retirement of the R44s last year? If so could the same happen to the R46 cars as well even though they are all stainless steel? It wasn't the lack of maintenance. It was the combination of the carbon steel band below the waistline of the carbody, carbon steel frame, and anti graffiti acid wash baths given to the cars during the 70's and 80's. The R46's are fit for service at the present time. Many of the R44's, it was determined, were unfit for service so the whole fleet was removed from service and most of the cars deactivated. While the SIRTOA cars have similar problems as the NYCT cars, it's not quite as dire. Like I said before, someone fairly high up in CED has to sign off on those cars being fit for service. Someone's gotta stick their neck on the line, TA is not just gonna OK these cars for service. If that happens, they could run again. If not, they won't. But if they do run again, expect a simple "spruce up" program to get them road ready. Don't expect the frames to be rebuilt from the inside out as some are suggesting. They'd take the best cars, inspect mechanical and electrical components, restore them to service, and push them out. They are not going to "build them from the bones up" as some suggest. If anything does happen with reactivating the cars, it will be very short lived. TA really would prefer to get rid of them, but "needs of the service" come first so let's see if someone is willing to stick their neck out and sign off on OKing these cars for service again. Otherwise, it won't happen and see ya next year when it gets brought up again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Far Rock Depot Posted August 22, 2011 Share #35 Posted August 22, 2011 It wasn't the lack of maintenance. It was the combination of the carbon steel band below the waistline of the carbody, carbon steel frame, and anti graffiti acid wash baths given to the cars during the 70's and 80's. The R46's are fit for service at the present time. Many of the R44's, it was determined, were unfit for service so the whole fleet was removed from service and most of the cars deactivated. While the SIRTOA cars have similar problems as the NYCT cars, it's not quite as dire. Like I said before, someone fairly high up in CED has to sign off on those cars being fit for service. Someone's gotta stick their neck on the line, TA is not just gonna OK these cars for service. If that happens, they could run again. If not, they won't. But if they do run again, expect a simple "spruce up" program to get them road ready. Don't expect the frames to be rebuilt from the inside out as some are suggesting. They'd take the best cars, inspect mechanical and electrical components, restore them to service, and push them out. They are not going to "build them from the bones up" as some suggest. If anything does happen with reactivating the cars, it will be very short lived. TA really would prefer to get rid of them, but "needs of the service" come first so let's see if someone is willing to stick their neck out and sign off on OKing these cars for service again. Otherwise, it won't happen and see ya next year when it gets brought up again... They're gonna need more than a "spruce up". And I fully dont expect a rebuild. The cost in the long run wont justify that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ MC Posted August 22, 2011 Share #36 Posted August 22, 2011 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted August 22, 2011 Share #37 Posted August 22, 2011 They're gonna need more than a "spruce up". And I fully dont expect a rebuild. The cost in the long run wont justify that. By spruce up I meant simple mechanical, electrical, pneumatic work to get the cars operational. They aren't going to do any really serious overhaul work. I'd call it an SMS, but it's not "scheduled". But let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Nothing's happened yet, it's just a rumor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 22, 2011 Share #38 Posted August 22, 2011 It wasn't the lack of maintenance. It was the combination of the carbon steel band below the waistline of the carbody, carbon steel frame, and anti graffiti acid wash baths given to the cars during the 70's and 80's. The R46's are fit for service at the present time. Many of the R44's, it was determined, were unfit for service so the whole fleet was removed from service and most of the cars deactivated. While the SIRTOA cars have similar problems as the NYCT cars, it's not quite as dire. Like I said before, someone fairly high up in CED has to sign off on those cars being fit for service. Someone's gotta stick their neck on the line, TA is not just gonna OK these cars for service. If that happens, they could run again. If not, they won't. But if they do run again, expect a simple "spruce up" program to get them road ready. Don't expect the frames to be rebuilt from the inside out as some are suggesting. They'd take the best cars, inspect mechanical and electrical components, restore them to service, and push them out. They are not going to "build them from the bones up" as some suggest. If anything does happen with reactivating the cars, it will be very short lived. TA really would prefer to get rid of them, but "needs of the service" come first so let's see if someone is willing to stick their neck out and sign off on OKing these cars for service again. Otherwise, it won't happen and see ya next year when it gets brought up again... You mean to tell me that with all of the new train cars that we have and the ones that are set to come in that we're in such dire straits that we still need to rehab these old POS R44s?? Not to mention that some lines were eliminated, so I don't understand why we're still in such dire needs for subway cars. :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted August 22, 2011 Share #39 Posted August 22, 2011 You mean to tell me that with all of the new train cars that we have and the ones that are set to come in that we're in such dire straits that we still need to rehab these old POS R44s?? Not to mention that some lines were eliminated, so I don't understand why we're still in sure dire needs for subway cars. :confused: TA doesn't "need" to. Remember a whole bunch of R160's came in but a whole lot of R32's, R38's, R40/M's, and R42's went out... And lines were eliminated in name only, the fleet needs are still roughly similar to what they were before the "cuts" Line and shop supt's get all the complaints about the R32 A/C units many of which are going B/O or the blower fans are going...but the situation is not "dire" They then ask questions of car equipment, someone wonders what if, asks a few questions, and a rumor gets started... They don't need to do it but they can, or they cannot. Wait and see what happens, but it is safe to say that if this happens what I've posted above holds. Personally I don't think it will happen in the end since I don't think anyone high up wants to put their neck out by signing off on the cars going back into service, but that part is my opinion I could be wrong about that...you never know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIP Posted August 22, 2011 Share #40 Posted August 22, 2011 the should have just kept the remaining 140 R38's in storage or Kept all of the 256 R32's...if they had a good back up plan they wouldnt have this problem. on a side note, Does anyone here think CI has a surplus of R160 cars? and im also guessing that 1 R42 set isnt "cuttin it" for the (A)/© car shortage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbanfortitude Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share #41 Posted August 22, 2011 the should have just kept the remaining 140 R38's in storage or Kept all of the 256 R32's...if they had a good back up plan they wouldnt have this problem. on a side note, Does anyone here think CI has a surplus of R160 cars? and im also guessing that 1 R42 set isnt "cuttin it" for the (A)/© car shortage they went too fast for me to see exactly what was up..but i did get enough of a look to see the 38s were pretty old looking. that one in concourse yard looked straight up dead and it was a shame cuz i liked those cars. I chalk it up like this...nothing is made to last forever and I seriously doubt those cars would still be able to run now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted August 22, 2011 Share #42 Posted August 22, 2011 the should have just kept the remaining 140 R38's in storage or Kept all of the 256 R32's...if they had a good back up plan they wouldnt have this problem. on a side note, Does anyone here think CI has a surplus of R160 cars? and im also guessing that 1 R42 set isnt "cuttin it" for the (A)/© car shortage R32 Phase II's (reefed) had problems with the NYAB air brake packages. Perhaps some could have been saved as inactive cars and fitted with a different package, but TA wasn't planning on the R44 situation being as bad as it was as quick as it was. The R38's had their own structural issues. Mechanically they were great cars, even towards the end, but structurally they were close to falling apart at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1447 Posted August 22, 2011 Share #43 Posted August 22, 2011 R32 Phase II's (reefed) had problems with the NYAB air brake packages. Perhaps some could have been saved as inactive cars and fitted with a different package, but TA wasn't planning on the R44 situation being as bad as it was as quick as it was. The R38's had their own structural issues. Mechanically they were great cars, even towards the end, but structurally they were close to falling apart at the end. Would this situation with retiring the R44s / R32PII fast be similar to the R30s being retired in 93? Seeing that it looks like the retires some fleet a bit to fast. This leads to car shortage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ MC Posted August 22, 2011 Share #44 Posted August 22, 2011 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R68 Subway Car Posted August 22, 2011 Share #45 Posted August 22, 2011 Here is a subchat post by George Chiasson Jr. which perfectly explains the R44 situation. http://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=887778#PostResponse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Louis Car 09 Posted August 22, 2011 Share #46 Posted August 22, 2011 at thhis point i think the R44 needs a whole GOH done over again.I believe the R44 can do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted August 22, 2011 Share #47 Posted August 22, 2011 The R44's are in no condition to run. Last I heard they won't even start up anymore. They are dead. Thats what you heard of coruse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted August 22, 2011 Share #48 Posted August 22, 2011 Would this situation with retiring the R44s / R32PII fast be similar to the R30s being retired in 93? Apples and oranges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmouse Posted August 22, 2011 Share #49 Posted August 22, 2011 But there was a surplus of cars back in 93, and the R30s were retired due to people complaining about no A?C from what Ive read..... As for the R44, it would have to be some of the best cars left to bring back in service Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted August 23, 2011 Share #50 Posted August 23, 2011 But there was a surplus of cars back in 93, and the R30s were retired due to people complaining about no A?C from what Ive read..... that's correct that's why i said it's apples and oranges... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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