Fan Railer Posted August 25, 2011 Share #26 Posted August 25, 2011 I was being a little sarcastic if it didn't show, I don't expect it to take *that* long, but it should have been finished already, and I wouldn't be surprised by more delays. Ahh I see lol. Sorry about that. But yes, this project has been in the works for far too long, but that's to be expected as the MTA can't keep a schedule if their funding depended on it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted August 26, 2011 Share #27 Posted August 26, 2011 Interlining makes implementing any sort of CBTC system incredibly difficult, especially with the amount of interlining in NYCT. Every line that interlines with another has to be compatible with THAT CBTC system, or the CBTC feature is of very limited use and scope (ie one section of shared track only, and trains must operate in CBTC bypass on all other sections of track). Now we'll take y'all back to a logic class... If, due to interlining, the following: -A must be compatible with B, and B must be compatible with C. -D must be compatible with E, and E must be compatible with F. -C and D also interline, and therefore must be compatible. Which of the following is true? I)A, B, and C must be compatible with each other, while D, E, and F must be compatible with each other II)None needs to be compatible III)All need to be compatible CBTC on non-isolated mainlines is a ways out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted August 26, 2011 Share #28 Posted August 26, 2011 Now we'll take y'all back to a logic class... I think I just heard a few heads explode... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted August 26, 2011 Share #29 Posted August 26, 2011 I think I just heard a few heads explode... sweet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R68 Subway Car Posted August 26, 2011 Share #30 Posted August 26, 2011 This will be cool to see. I cannot wait. Nice to see some tech improvements on the New York City Subway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m7zanr160s Posted August 27, 2011 Share #31 Posted August 27, 2011 Interlining makes implementing any sort of CBTC system incredibly difficult, especially with the amount of interlining in NYCT. Every line that interlines with another has to be compatible with THAT CBTC system, or the CBTC feature is of very limited use and scope (ie one section of shared track only, and trains must operate in CBTC bypass on all other sections of track). Now we'll take y'all back to a logic class... If, due to interlining, the following: -A must be compatible with B, and B must be compatible with C. -D must be compatible with E, and E must be compatible with F. -C and D also interline, and therefore must be compatible. Which of the following is true? I)A, B, and C must be compatible with each other, while D, E, and F must be compatible with each other II)None needs to be compatible III)All need to be compatible CBTC on non-isolated mainlines is a ways out. I'll choose III as my final answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted August 27, 2011 Share #32 Posted August 27, 2011 I'll choose III as my final answer. correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m7zanr160s Posted August 27, 2011 Share #33 Posted August 27, 2011 correct. Cool! I'll take...Door #3! ...(look of hopefull anticipation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted August 27, 2011 Share #34 Posted August 27, 2011 Cool! I'll take...Door #3! ...(look of hopefull anticipation) congratulations...you win a Metrocard of unstated value. To claim your prize, check the floor of the fare collection area at Times Square. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m7zanr160s Posted August 27, 2011 Share #35 Posted August 27, 2011 congratulations...you win a Metrocard of unstated value. To claim your prize, check the floor of the fare collection area at Times Square. lol Oh, man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriboroughBridge Posted December 22, 2011 Share #36 Posted December 22, 2011 According to a recently released Capital Program milestone report the remaining signal work necessary to fully implement CBTC on the Canarsie Line is targeted for completion in the first quarter of 2012. This means that starting next year ALL trains will run automated with the motorman simply pressing a button every 10 seconds to indicate his presence. During any technical difficulties the motorman will take control of the train. Is it good that trains are automated? I dont like the idea of having a machine driving me on a subway train, after they get it systemwide, they probably wont have motorman. I hope it takes them forever to do this, I want to be a motorman for sometime in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan Railer Posted December 22, 2011 Share #37 Posted December 22, 2011 Is it good that trains are automated? I dont like the idea of having a machine driving me on a subway train, after they get it systemwide, they probably wont have motorman. I hope it takes them forever to do this, I want to be a motorman for sometime in future. Don't worry. All automated heavy rail systems in the US still have motormen, albeit as backups to make sure the train operates smoothly and to take over in case of emergency. (WMATA, BART, to name a few systems that operate like that). So the T/O job at the MTA will still be a position for decades to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova RTS 9147 Posted December 22, 2011 Share #38 Posted December 22, 2011 I was being a little sarcastic if it didn't show, I don't expect it to take *that* long, but it should have been finished already, and I wouldn't be surprised by more delays. "Progress" comes with a price. Hah. The L line is fully 100% CBTC and ATS. The last part is just removing all automatic signals from Bway junction to 8 ave. Which I think is a bad idea because they have computer problems your L service will be suspended instead of operating in CBTC Bypass. The had ten years to get its act together. Any further delays; and unexpected complications with the (7)'s signal conversion would be a disappointing indictment on CBTC in its current form. It would also show how bad the is at modernization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriboroughBridge Posted December 22, 2011 Share #39 Posted December 22, 2011 Don't worry. All automated heavy rail systems in the US still have motormen, albeit as backups to make sure the train operates smoothly and to take over in case of emergency. (WMATA, BART, to name a few systems that operate like that). So the T/O job at the MTA will still be a position for decades to come. Thanks buddy! you made feel better about this whole automated thing! I love you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VWM Posted December 23, 2011 Share #40 Posted December 23, 2011 What the needs is a skip-stop service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriboroughBridge Posted December 23, 2011 Share #41 Posted December 23, 2011 What the needs is a skip-stop service. For what, the length, or crowding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lance25 Posted December 23, 2011 Share #42 Posted December 23, 2011 What the needs is a skip-stop service. No it doesn't. Out of the 24 stops on the Canarsie line, only a handful of them would work as a skip-stop service. Everything west of Broadway Junction and especially Myrtle Av is too crowded. Skipping a stop there wouldn't move the trains any faster or distribute the passengers any better. All you'd have is even more crowded platforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B17EastNewYorkDepot Posted December 25, 2011 Share #43 Posted December 25, 2011 wait so will the l still be able to run r160s or no cause i will def miss them... with the 2 or so they got from eny yard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallyhorse Posted December 25, 2011 Share #44 Posted December 25, 2011 No it doesn't. Out of the 24 stops on the Canarsie line, only a handful of them would work as a skip-stop service. Everything west of Broadway Junction and especially Myrtle Av is too crowded. Skipping a stop there wouldn't move the trains any faster or distribute the passengers any better. All you'd have is even more crowded platforms. What to me would work better would be to rebuild the partially demolished platforms at Atlantic Avenue so that can become the terminal during most of the day, while a new service (70(K)?) runs out of Rockaway Parkway with (usually) a same or cross-platform transfer at Atlantic Avenue. That to me would allow the to concentrate on the busier part of the line while the new line would join the at Broadway-Brooklyn and operate to Manhattan, possibly to Chambers 19/7 (with the overnights still running to Rockaway Parkway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted December 25, 2011 Share #45 Posted December 25, 2011 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E train line Posted December 25, 2011 Share #46 Posted December 25, 2011 Not really at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenSin Posted December 25, 2011 Share #47 Posted December 25, 2011 What to me would work better would be to rebuild the partially demolished platforms at Atlantic Avenue so that can become the terminal during most of the day, while a new service (70(K)?) runs out of Rockaway Parkway with (usually) a same or cross-platform transfer at Atlantic Avenue. That to me would allow the to concentrate on the busier part of the line while the new line would join the at Broadway-Brooklyn and operate to Manhattan, possibly to Chambers 19/7 (with the overnights still running to Rockaway Parkway). In short:You want to: spend millions upfront to reconfigure tracks and rehabilitate an entire station; spend more annually on a route ( to Lower Manhattan) that doesn't go where most people are going along a line that has less ridership than the Canarsie line; make people transfer to a line that they really want to use (which won't solve the train crowding); cause congestion problems for the ,, and at Broadway junction and over the Williamsburg Bridge; give people worse transfer options by having the transfer points to the Manhattan trunk lines put people further away from Midtown Manhattan; and forgo the use of CBTC (along a portion the line) which has been installed along the entire Canarsie line and could be used to increase the trains per hour by 73% versus theoretically cutting a maximum of 25% off the ridership off the Canarsie line by having the terminate at Atlantic Avenue. Details: The Jamaica line is not CBTC-compatible.Interlining makes implementing any sort of CBTC system incredibly difficult, especially with the amount of interlining in NYCT. Every line that interlines with another has to be compatible with THAT CBTC system, or the CBTC feature is of very limited use and scope (ie one section of shared track only, and trains must operate in CBTC bypass on all other sections of track). Now we'll take y'all back to a logic class... If, due to interlining, the following: -A must be compatible with B, and B must be compatible with C. -D must be compatible with E, and E must be compatible with F. -C and D also interline, and therefore must be compatible. Which of the following is true? I)A, B, and C must be compatible with each other, while D, E, and F must be compatible with each other II)None needs to be compatible III)All need to be compatible CBTC on non-isolated mainlines is a ways out. You already have the , , and running over the Williamsburg Bridge. Squeezing in a that runs frequently enough to satiate the ridership demands of people from Rockaway Parkway to Atlantic Avenue doesn't seem possible. I doubt most people from Canarsie would prefer a one-seat ride on the to Lower Manhattan over 14 Street. As service currently stands, the grants access to every single trunk line in Manhattan with a single transfer (excluding the and , but all of their Manhattan stations are reachable anyway via the other routes). The new service pattern will not improve transfers as Lower Manhattan is further away from Midtown Manhattan, and does not offer more options compared to the . Ridership to transfer points along 14 Street total about 64 million annually while ridership to transfer points along the Nassau Street line in Manhattan total about 52 million. From Bushwick Avenue to Bedford Avenue, the annual ridership total is 34,909,215. From Rockaway Parkway to Atlantic Avenue, the ridership is a mere 8,593,241. I think using CBTC to enable 73% more trains to run along the Canarsie line is more worth it than shaving 25% off the line's ridership (assuming that nobody uses the transfer to the new terminating at Atlantic Avenue). Realistically, people would probably transfer to the anyway, thus, removing far less than 25% of the ridership heading to Manhattan from between Rockaway Parkway and Atlantic Avenue. Ridership figures were based on 2010 figures released by the MTA. The numbers stated assumes people are traveling primarily to Manhattan with a bias towards Midtown Manhattan. Stations with more than one route have their ridership figure counted towards the Canarsie line's ridership. Annual Ridership by Station Data: (tab-delimited format) Rockaway Parkway 3,806,903 East 105 Street 1,065,469 New Lots Avenue 1,231,257 Livonia Avenue 785,229 Sutter Avenue 1,280,175 Atlantic Avenue 424,208 Broadway Junction 2,767,838 Bushwick Avenue 398,834 Wilson Avenue 1,089,448 Halsey Street 2,019,248 Myrtle Avenue 5,399,769 DeKalb Avenue 3,343,666 Jefferson Street 1,740,644 Morgan Avenue 2,021,162 Montrose Avenue 1,951,066 Grand Street 2,103,847 Graham Avenue 3,028,830 Lorimer Street 4,394,498 Bedford Avenue 7,418,203 Essex Street 6,745,7911 Avenue 6,936,132 Bowery 1,044,3943 Avenue 2,060,364 Canal Street 16,007,057Union Square 34,730,692 Chambers Street 10,783,1286 Avenue 15,029,178 Fulton Street 18,303,9638 Avenue 11,795,495 Broad Street 1,636,627 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallyhorse Posted December 26, 2011 Share #48 Posted December 26, 2011 You made your points, but something has to be done to help with what we know is a serious overcrowding problem on the . Perhaps if the SAS ever reached Houston Street, there could be a connector via Chrystie Street from Essex that would allow the Broadway-Brooklyn line to access the SAS, with perhaps then in my scenario the terminating at Atlantic Avenue while a new 70(K) train operates from Canarsie-Atlantic Avenue, then via the Broadway-Brooklyn line to Essex and then with the and on the SAS to 125th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenSin Posted December 26, 2011 Share #49 Posted December 26, 2011 You made your points, but something has to be done to help with what we know is a serious overcrowding problem on the . Perhaps if the SAS ever reached Houston Street, there could be a connector via Chrystie Street from Essex that would allow the Broadway-Brooklyn line to access the SAS, with perhaps then in my scenario the terminating at Atlantic Avenue while a new 70(K) train operates from Canarsie-Atlantic Avenue, then via the Broadway-Brooklyn line to Essex and then with the and on the SAS to 125th. Something has to be done, but it must be something less costly and detrimental to the majority ridership. Keep in mind that the Williamsburg Bridge handles 2 lines (technically 3 during rush hour, but the and are the same anyway). No matter what terminal or line you build to make a home for the other end of a route, you will always be limited by capacity. Besides, 2 Avenue service down to Houston Street is far into the future; for the near future, CBTC does its job and relieves the (L)'s overcrowding problem without rebuilding or screwing with other lines. And let's say by some miracle the 2 Avenue line is connected and working, you still forget that many folks getting on the train between Rockaway Parkway and Atlantic Avenue will have to make one or two transfers to get to their destination instead of 1 (or even 0). The in its current form passes through stations with very high ridership in Manhattan and connects to every major trunk line. What does a over the Williamsburg Bridge running up 2 Avenue connect to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriedChikkin Posted December 26, 2011 Share #50 Posted December 26, 2011 wait so will the l still be able to run r160s or no cause i will def miss them... B)with the 2 or so they got from eny yard I believe the R-160s on the line have now had their CBTC enabled. Yes, I double checked, officially as of Dec. 3, 2009. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.