Jump to content
Attention: In order to reply to messages, create topics, have access to other features of the community you must sign up for an account.
Sign in to follow this  
JubaionBx12+SBS

CBTC to be fully implemented on the (L) in 2012. What do you expect?

Recommended Posts

According to a recently released Capital Program milestone report the remaining signal work necessary to fully implement CBTC on the Canarsie Line is targeted for completion in the first quarter of 2012. This means that starting next year ALL (L) trains will run automated with the motorman simply pressing a button every 10 seconds to indicate his presence. During any technical difficulties the motorman will take control of the train. CBTC is already used during the late night hours and on weekends with no GO.

 

What do you expect to see when full-blown CBTC is in effect along the (L)? I expect more frequent and reliable service.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm confused...

 

what on the (L) isn't fully CBTC? Canarsie yard?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm confused...

 

what on the (L) isn't fully CBTC? Canarsie yard?

 

The entire line is CBTC ready. The signal work they're doing is removing the older signals which will no longer be used. When I say CBTC isn't fully equipped on the (L) I mean the fact that it has yet to run on weekdays since the system started being put to use in 2009.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wait... I thought the flashing green aspect means ATO is in effect? I rode the (L) during the rush hour and the operation sure feels like its computer-controlled, nudging in sharp steps toward the bumping blocks at both terminals, relatively hard stops and starts. And every train behaved pretty much the same.

 

I know the removal of wayside signals is part of the plan, but what will the T/O's use during emergency manual operations?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wait... I thought the flashing green aspect means ATO is in effect? I rode the (L) during the rush hour and the operation sure feels like its computer-controlled, nudging in sharp steps toward the bumping blocks at both terminals, relatively hard stops and starts. And every train behaved pretty much the same.

 

I know the removal of wayside signals is part of the plan, but what will the T/O's use during emergency manual operations?

 

(M) being extended to Manhattan and Shuttle buses :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

its funny that they finished the work on the ATS on the IRT just a week or so ago and now they should be done with the CBTC on the (L) i dont know how good its going to be using CBTC fully, maybe it will be great i hope.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This needs to be posted again because from reading this forum it's apparent a lot of people around here do not know the difference:

 

Communications

Based

Train

Control

 

A signal system where the limits of train movement are communicated directly to the train operator's cab. When CBTC is active, wayside signals flash green...indicating that the next train is CBTC equipped. The wayside signals become "deactivated" in this way, and the second Train Operator's Display screen in the operating cab delivers the instructions for the safe movement of the train.

 

CBTC has two "modes" - ATPM and ATO.

 

Automatic

Train

Protection

Manual

 

One of the two CBTC modes. Here, the train operator is responsible for operating his/her train safely in accordance with the instructions given on the second Train Operator's Display screen by the CBTC system. These indicate acceptable speed limits as well as the limits of train movement, as governed by real time track conditions. If a train operator fails to comply with an instruction from the CBTC system (such as overspeeding, or trying to go beyond the safe following distance), the train will trigger a penalty brake application to force the train to comply. In other words, the operator operates the train in accordance with CBTC instructions, and the computer "checks" him if he fails to.

 

Automatic

Train

Operation

 

ATO is the second mode of CBTC where the train operates itself. The train operator must respond to an alerter that acts as a deadman's device while the mode is active. The train operator must observe constantly for unsafe conditions, and be prepared to take over from the computer if need be. ATO is not perfect. Train Operators must operate manually from the terminal to the first station along the route. Train operators also must operate one trip each day in ATPM mode so as not to lose their ability to control their trains (due to the train "operating itself"), in the event of an emergency, CBTC failure, or ATO failure.

 

One

Person

Train

Operation

 

OPTO has nothing to do with CBTC. OPTO is the practice of only having one crew member on a train - a train operator who performs the functions of both the train operator and conductor. With no conductor, responsibility for safe operation of the doors falls to the train operator, as well as the responsibility for the train and everyone on it (with a conductor present, the conductor is responsible for this, and the train operator is responsible for safe movement of the train - this is different!). Train operators are paid more to operate OPTO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The L line is fully 100% CBTC and ATS. The last part is just removing all automatic signals from Bway junction to 8 ave. Which I think is a bad idea because they have computer problems your L service will be suspended instead of operating in CBTC Bypass.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Which I think is a bad idea because they have computer problems your L service will be suspended instead of operating in CBTC Bypass.

 

"Progress" comes with a price.

 

Hah.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"Progress" comes with a price.

 

Hah.

 

Yep so true..

 

Good luck explaining this to the hipsters who live along the Larry Line...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yep so true..

 

Good luck explaining this to the hipsters who live along the Larry Line...

 

That's all right if they get jacked up they'll just unfriend "The L Train" on Facebook and declare their "relationship" over with a personalized note to an inanimate object.

 

But they'll still be standing on that platform Monday morning...

 

Stupid hipsters...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL The Hipsters are crazy. You should see how they criticize the (L) for something as simple as the smell of the train. ROFL what kind of people do they think they are?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LOL The Hipsters are crazy. You should see how they criticize the (L) for something as simple as the smell of the train. ROFL what kind of people do they think they are?

 

…especially since their lack of deodorant plays a big part in that smell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hipsters. If I could go back to 1916 and show the BRT/BMT what the Canarsie Line's passengers would be 95 years later, they'd probably halt it then and there.

 

If it really does speed trains up, then I'm fine with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Removing existing wayside signals would have no effect on trains that are CBTC enabled. If anything, it reduces flexibility in the case of a computer malfunction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hipsters. If I could go back to 1916 and show the BRT/BMT what the Canarsie Line's passengers would be 95 years later, they'd probably halt it then and there.

 

If it really does speed trains up, then I'm fine with it.

 

I thought they were essentially operating at CBTC speed. That 1st to Bedford stretch is quite fast - and jerky - by cross-river standards, yet I love it so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I expect CBTC to be fully iplemented on the L in 2030. That's what I expect.

 

2030??? Don't know what you're basing your expectations on, but as crappy as the MTA is about their scheduling, considering installation is pretty much complete and all that is left is signal removal and some final car system tweaks, I honestly don't think it's going to take 18 years to "fully implement" the system on a line on which it is practically complete. I'd place the Culver Line and the QBL for a 2030 completion at that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2030??? Don't know what you're basing your expectations on, but as crappy as the MTA is about their scheduling, considering installation is pretty much complete and all that is left is signal removal and some final car system tweaks, I honestly don't think it's going to take 18 years to "fully implement" the system on a line on which it is practically complete. I'd place the Culver Line and the QBL for a 2030 completion at that.

 

Since I'm not an expert on CBTC and signalling, I'm just curious why it'd take that long for just the QBL. SelTrac was installed on the Jubilee Line, which is longer than the QBL, in a matter of a few years. Is it the interlining that London lacks that makes CBTC that much more complex to implement, even though the (L) and (7) have taken and will take longer to implement? Perhaps having a local/express setup as well? It just seems weird that putting CBTC on the QBL and FL, as it did with the Canarsie, will be done over almost two decades.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.