SBS for local bus routes

[East New York]

As far as the Bx12 local goes, I think they should go back to 40 footers, and send those artics to other lines that need them more.

[Guest lance25]

Personally, I'd rather the expedite the smart card project instead of adding SBS-style fare boarding to the local routes, but that's just me.

[Interested Rider]

In reading through the various comments on the proposed B/44 Select Bus Service proposal that overlook the needs of the various communities.,i find myself in total disagreement with many of the writers. What seems to be omitted from some of the comments is the size of the bus which will be 60' long and therefore unable to make turns or operate on certain streets.

The southern terminal should be Kingsborough Community College not Knapp Street as Knapp Street does not generate the revenue or the passenger loads.

The Avenue Z option is not viable as the 60 foot buses making the turns on Avenue Z or Sheepshead Bay Road would tie up traffic for the entire neighborhood. as

The stop on Clarkson and Rogers Avenue is too far from Kings County Hospital as the hospital is a considerable distance from the main buildings. The Rogers Avenue stop will require many riders to take the local bus to avoid the long walk.

The route should be extended to 34th Street and 1st Avenue instead of Williamsburg Bridge Plaza as the direct connection will generate additional ridership and help the 14th Street-Canarsie Line (A/K/A L train). There will be only one additional stop to be added as the bus could stop at the M/15 Select Bus stops in Manhattan.

One last thing that I forgot Nostrand Avenue from Farragut Road to Kings Highway is two lanes in each direction with one lane for parking and a tremendous amount of double parking throughout this portion of the route.

Maybe Ocean Avenue is a more viable option.

['89 Liberty MCI]

Most, if not all of us [who went back and forth on the issues] are fully aware that the B44 SBS will use 62-foot LFS Artics. They will have no problem navigating any part of the B44 SBS route.

 

KCC already generates a lot of bus ridership for the B1 and B49. In fact a lot of buses leave the college crush-loaded. The B1 does a good job by operating very frequently and getting people to the subway as quickly as a local bus can. I know that contradicts my whole opinion about local/limited buses, but that is the situation.

 

A B49 SBS on Ocean Avenue is a good idea, but the only way I would agree with it is if there is a B44 SBS first. The B44 needs it more than the B49. It carries a lot more people and is notoriously unreliable.

 

The B1 and B49 do not have reliability issues like the B44 and thus are not avoided the way the B44 is, due to its unreliability and the fact that it goes through some areas where people can drive and use car services, and the fact that it does a poor job of getting people to a subway from anywhere south of Avenue M.

 

This is especially a problem by Knapp Street and was a problem (albeit of a lesser magnitude) even before they cut the B4 1.5 year ago, because the B4 has had terrible headways for years. It was B4 = 10-15 minutes to reach the ( but operates every 10-15 or 15-20 minutes rush hours and B44 limited = operates every 3-6 minutes rush hours but takes 25-31 minutes to reach the . So it has always been a situation in which bus passengers have to determine which is the lesser evil. And a lot of people back there have cars and can afford car services, so of course local/limited buses get weak ridership back there.

 

The B44 SBS on the other hand will take 15 minutes at most to reach the and will operate every 3-5 minutes rush hours, so that fixes things as far as bus-subway connections are concerned.

 

If Knapp Street had the B4 and B44 local as the only buses serving the area, how would any business back there survive? They would only be able to go down instead of up since the area would become less accessible by public transportation. Same goes for real estate values.

 

Bus lanes are (or will be) camera-enforced.

 

I misread your post in which you specified the section of Nostrand between Farragut Road and Kings Highway.

 

1. There will be peak-hour bus lanes from Avenue I to Flatbush Avenue northbound and from Farragut Road to Flatbush Avenue southbound.

 

2. They will ban northbound left turns from Nostrand to Flatbush, either at all times or most of the time, for non-MTA buses.

 

3. I have been there (between Farragut and Kings Highway) many times and the double parking is not severe enough to significantly lower the performance of the B44 SBS. Especially since the only SBS stops in this section are at Flatbush Avenue and Kings Highway. It is not one of these situations where cars miss lights that they would make if other cars had not been double parked.

 

Even if a vehicle does miss a light it only adds a minute to the trip at most. Five minutes from the time the bus leaves Kings Highway to the time the bus leaves Flatbush Avenue and vice-versa is plenty of time for the bus to travel this distance. The B44 SBS will operate exactly like a car in the section you specified, because it only stops at Flatbush Avenue and Kings Highway.

 

I would not want to send a bus over the Williamsburg bridge with that traffic on the bridge. It is really bad. As much as I would like it to happen, it is an absolute no-no with that traffic.

 

Somebody coming from points south of KCH to get to KCH will have a faster trip than the one the limited currently makes. How about that mess of traffic caused by double parking on Nostrand between Flatbush and Glenwood going north, which the B44 always gets stuck in, and the back-to-back stops at Nostrand-Flatbush and Nostrand-Glenwood, which the SBS will not deal with?

 

Somebody who wants to go from KCH to points north (mainly Fulton and points north of Fulton), will have a faster trip with the SBS than with the limited, even with the extra walking.

 

Just to clarify, the 10-15 minutes ( B4 ), 25-31 minutes (B44 limited), and 15 minutes (B44 SBS) are the travel times from Knapp Street-Shore Pky to the ( (via the B4) and to the (via the B44).

[checkmatechamp13]

1) The southern terminal should be Kingsborough Community College not Knapp Street as Knapp Street does not generate the revenue or the passenger loads.

 

The Avenue Z option is not viable as the 60 foot buses making the turns on Avenue Z or Sheepshead Bay Road would tie up traffic for the entire neighborhood. as

 

2) The stop on Clarkson and Rogers Avenue is too far from Kings County Hospital as the hospital is a considerable distance from the main buildings. The Rogers Avenue stop will require many riders to take the local bus to avoid the long walk.

 

3) The route should be extended to 34th Street and 1st Avenue instead of Williamsburg Bridge Plaza as the direct connection will generate additional ridership and help the 14th Street-Canarsie Line (A/K/A L train). There will be only one additional stop to be added as the bus could stop at the M/15 Select Bus stops in Manhattan.

 

4) One last thing that I forgot Nostrand Avenue from Farragut Road to Kings Highway is two lanes in each direction with one lane for parking and a tremendous amount of double parking throughout this portion of the route.

Maybe Ocean Avenue is a more viable option.

 

1) That's true, but how is it supposed to get there if not by using Avenue Z?

 

2) That's what a lot of people have been saying. Personally, I think the +SBS+ should just run with 40-foot buses and keep its current route.

 

3) No. It would increase operating costs and subject the route to a lot of traffic. Leave it at Williamsburg.

 

Plus, I don't see how it'll help the in any way. They serve two entirely different parts of Brooklyn.

 

4) Ocean Avenue is closer to the subway than Nostrand Avenue. The point of +SBS+ is to sort-of be a replacement for the subway.

[Future ENY OP]

By Williamsburg, I meant by the Marcy Ave (, & ) station.

 

Only the (B44) limited goes there & after the (B44) becomes SBS it wont operate on New York Ave anymore which wont give people along New York Ave service to the Bridge or the , or .

.

 

I don't understand.

#1: B44 stops at the terminal. Between the terminal and the station is about less than a 1/2 block. So notion right there... DENIED.

 

#2. B46 stops at Marcy station, so why extend the 44 another 1/2 block. Now u are messing up the travel path for the 44. Keep the route where it is.

 

#3. Most of the people that take the NY Avenue bus frequent go to Church Avenue, Kings County Hospital and Futon Street - lines. Most don't sit on the bus to Willy B. To my belief there will be a 44 local that will travel on NY Avenue. So the local will be able to handle that.

[Mysterious2train]

He's only talking about extending B44 local trips that end at Flushing Av to the Plaza.

 

Only the (B44) Limited goes there

 

Yeah...

[FamousNYLover]

I agree M98 SBS will not work either.

178 and 179th Sts are not very wide, and there's alway bad driver coming up 179th St Exit Ramp.

 

M23, M42, M57, M86, M96 could work maybe?

[Future ENY OP]

He's only talking about extending B44 local trips that end at Flushing Av to the Plaza.

 

 

 

Yeah...

 

I believe that's done during the late nights. Local trips do end at the plaza between the hours of 9pm-6AM, last limited heading to the Plaza on the 44 during the week end between 9&10pm...

[TriboroughBridge]

I definitely do not agree with moving the B44 Limited to Rogers Av,

 

Yay!

 

but I agree with the (MTA)'s decision to keep the B44 local at Flushing Av.

 

No!

 

Personally, I'd rather the expedite the smart card project instead of adding SBS-style fare boarding to the local routes, but that's just me.

 

My friend, you are a genius!

[Gorgor]

I agree M98 SBS will not work either.

178 and 179th Sts are not very wide, and there's alway bad driver coming up 179th St Exit Ramp.

 

M23, M42, M57, M86, M96 could work maybe?

 

 

M23 SBS, might work, not sure.

 

M42 SBS will confuse the hell out of tourists, resulting in tons of fines that will go unpaid once they leave the city and go back to their home country.

 

M57 will not work unless you also give M31 SBS, which would just simply not work because everyone knows that you don't take that bus for speed. Plus there's tons of express buses that stop along 57th Street that will clog up traffic.

 

M86 would not work. You'll need fare inspectors on the westbound side around 3rd Avenue before the subway, which would get rid of a decent amount of the time saved. Plus, NOBODY, and I repeat nobody on an M86 bus in the morning will want to deal with them. Having to reach in and grab the ticket and have the fare inspector read it is just so much of a hassle.

 

M96, unless there's always fare inspectors there will be a ton of fare beating, plus it doesn't even have arctics which means it isn't used heavily enough.

[Mysterious2train]

Another good-ol' wall of text :cool:

 

@TriboroughBridge

 

Like I said before, on Weekdays half of all B44 Limited trips only go up to Flushing Av and don't serve the Plaza, which is just showing how demand to Williamsburg Bridge Plaza isn't all that high. No point in making B44 local trips longer when those Limited trips ending at Flushing can be sent up instead. On weekends, maybe, maybe if there's shown demand for more service to the Plaza, there could be some local trips extended up there, but I doubt that because ridership above Flushing Av is relatively low.

 

@ East New York

 

Which route(s) in mind did you have for those artics you'd be taking from the Bx12 local? The Bx28? Some route at another depot?

 

@Gorgor

I'm basically agreeing with you. I don't think the M101 is cut out for SBS.

If it were to be enacted, the M101 would probably continue to be all-day Limited only, so it'd be to the M102/M103/M100 as the M15 SBS is to the local but with the other 125th St routes and the M98 it'd be complicated.

 

I don't believe the has plans to put SBS on the Bx15 on 125th St or the M60, so I guess that wouldn't work out.

 

The DOT lists the "125th St Crosstown Corridors" as one of their potential SBS corridors (9th on this list for Phase II, with the Bx41 or Bx55 being number 1) which is pretty vague by itself, but I doubt they mean the M101.

 

Like Checkmate talked about, people tend to take L-Shaped trips on the M101 (and the 100) (One example I mentioned earlier, from City College to the train, I know some people who do that every day) and SBS could potentially speed that up.

 

The M98 LTD would be kinda irrelevant (is that the word?) under the M101 SBS, I think the might try to axe it, one way to keep it afloat would be to also make SBS because of all the fare machines and it'd either have to be re-numbered to M101A or something to use the M101's fare machines on 3/Lexington Av, (and even then, it'd still need new fare machines in Washington Heights), and the M98 would only run Rush Hours, so the fare machinnes would go largely unused. It'd be.... a big mess.

 

So yeah, the M101 shouldn't get SBS.

 

@Checkmatechamp13

 

I don't think the would want to add more (local) service along Amsterdam Av for the portion above 163rd St. Add too much service and even though you might relieve a little bit of stress on the M100 I think there would be too much service alongside this hypothetical M101SBS.

 

The scrapped their plans for the daytime B44 local to Williamsburg Bridge Plaza, but at the moment they still plan to send both the local and SBS to Knapp Street during the day. I think that's pretty surprising, and sometime in the future the will try and change things around so that only one service is going to Knapp St, just like with the North end of the route.

 

So yeah, I can't see the really adding extra local service to Amsterdam to cover the above 163rd St portion of this hypothetical M101SBS. That M10 idea is pretty unique though.

 

Adding SBS on the M101 and still ending it at 8th St would seem kinda sillyy in my opinion.The reason the M101 was cut back from City Hall and the M103 created in the first place was the long trip and long running time, right? Hypothetically, M101SBS would shorten the trip time enough to justify sending it back to City Hall, would add excess service when combined with the M103. That's what I meant. And when SAS opens, ridership on the M101 won't plummet of course, but that's probably a reason to deter adding SBS t the M101 in the future in the (MTA)'s minds.

 

@lance25 Yeah, the Smart Card deal would really help speed up boarding, definitely better than SBS for most routes.

[TriboroughBridge]

Another good-ol' wall of text :cool:

 

@TriboroughBridge

 

Like I said before, on Weekdays half of all B44 Limited trips only go up to Flushing Av and don't serve the Plaza, which is just showing how demand to Williamsburg Bridge Plaza isn't all that high. No point in making B44 local trips longer when those Limited trips ending at Flushing can be sent up instead. On weekends, maybe, maybe if there's shown demand for more service to the Plaza, there could be some local trips extended up there, but I doubt that because ridership above Flushing Av is relatively low.

 

Yeah, I know. At fulton/Nostrand the B44 empties out & at Flushing it's empty.

 

I guess for me to get to the Plaza, I would have to walk to Rogers & catch the B44 SBS I need the extra walking anyways

[Mysterious2train]

Either that or take the local to Bedford & Fulton to catch the SBS, I sure don't want to do that... especially not considering the local will be no doubt be packed...

 

At one point, I would never want to walk from my place over to Rogers Av and Avenue D to catch the bus. But now I guess it's not so bad.

[East New York]

Personally, I'd rather the expedite the smart card project instead of adding SBS-style fare boarding to the local routes, but that's just me.

 

One actually has little to do with the other. You will still have people using coins and credit/debit cards. No everyone will have the smart card because not everyone has a credit/debt card. Off-board payment will still be faster than on-board no matter what the method is. I'm pretty sure the new MVM's are Smart Tech ready.

 

Everything is pretty much on schedule now anyway. The thing is, all the bus fareboxes, and all the subway fare collection equipment has to be replaced and upgraded as well. That's 460 something subway stations, and just under 6,000 buses. That's going to run through 2014-2015.

 

You'll likely be able to wave your smart card at the MVM's so you can just jump on the bus.

[Interested Rider]

No further comments from me on this subject as the B/44 Select Bus Route will begin operating as scheduled in the winter of 2013. The route will have 62" long buses for its local and select bus riders

[Acela Express]

What seems to be omitted from some of the comments is the size of the bus which will be 60' long and therefore unable to make turns or operate on certain streets.

 

The route should be extended to 34th Street and 1st Avenue instead of Williamsburg Bridge Plaza as the direct connection will generate additional ridership and help the 14th Street-Canarsie Line (A/K/A L train)

Actually, those artics - both 60 & 62 ft. models can virtually make any turn your standard 40 ft. bus can make, in fact, it's probably easier to make with an artic given a shorter radius, and pivot point. Setting up the turn is the key, as with any bus. It's not a problem.

 

As for the second statement in the quoted text: hell no. The B44 is long as it is; why should it be extended all the way in Manhattan? Folks can jump on the J train and head into the Lower East, and transfer to wherever they have to go from there.

[Interested Rider]

Unfortunately, I stated that I had said "it was my last word" and then something comes up and I feel that I had to respond, so please accept my apologies for my error.

I have been to the hearings and provided written comments as well as written two letters to the local newspaper (one was printed last year) as I have a vested interest as not only ride the B/44, one of the stops is right under my window. I have been in touch with members of the community and people that work in the community. While the select bus is being sold to the community boards, the business community and the general public feel that are being kept in the dark. As of this day, I have not heard anything concerning my suggestions.

I was told at a meeting that the B/44 local bus will be extended to Knapp Street at all times. This must be in place prior to the implementation of the select bus and I stated it in writing.The suggestion for the extension to Kingsborough Community College is predicated on this extension prior to the implementation of select bus. I have asked for a change in the location of a proposed stop as it's location on the near side of the street is dangerous and it will interfere with traffic flow.The location is bad enough with right turning cars and running lights (I count them before I cross the street) and now this.

I thought that the B/44 Select bus will be 62" and I was informed that it will also be operating on the local runs as well. When I mention it to this community it receives a "thumbs down". It was hard enough to sell the select bus but now two 62' buses arriving at the same time.

i want to see the select bus concept work but it will only work if the business community and the general public is informed and their needs are addressed through local meetings.Technology is not the only way as many people do not have it or are reluctant to use it. I suggested meetings at the local public library (where there is considerable interest in the subject) or the local senior citizen center . This will enable the community to be sold on this proposal.I have not received a response.

When I submitted my comments, I based it on the understanding of the communnities that the B/44 serves. Information from the 2010 census indicates that the northern part of the route is changing demographically (thus the proposed extension to 34th Street) and this is what I based my proposed change. This may require the extension of the local to Williamsburg Bridge Plaza in the future.

I appreciate the views being presented by members of the forum on this subject because whether I agree or disagree with it is irrelevant, the goal is if it will be implemented, it should work.