upperharlemline4ever Posted February 15, 2012 Share #1 Posted February 15, 2012 Regarding the last order of buses before NICE's creation (believe the 1700 and 1800 series), is the MTA retaining ownership and leasing them to Nassau County, were the sold to Nassau County. Never did hear the final outcome of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted February 15, 2012 Share #2 Posted February 15, 2012 Not this question again, my god. :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac5689 Posted February 16, 2012 Share #3 Posted February 16, 2012 Not this question again, my god. :mad: I agree with Brett, its time to leave this question alone. I mean everybody has a answer to it that I'm surprised nobody has started a conspiracy theory about it because everyone has their own answer to it. My advice is to leave this question alone, or at least stand away from it with a 20 foot pole because its going to stir up one mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upperharlemline4ever Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share #4 Posted February 16, 2012 What's the big deal? Do you not have an answer? Never saw the answer if as you imply, it's be discussed to death. Notice many of the buses have the new official license plate (gold and blue) which would indicate a change in ownership-registration (MTA to Nassau County) while others still have the old official plate (white and blue) which would indicate MTA still owns them but that is just my guesstimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrstone Posted February 16, 2012 Share #5 Posted February 16, 2012 What's the big deal? Do you not have an answer? Never saw the answer if as you imply, it's be discussed to death. The thing is some say the buses newer buses are owned by the leasing them to Veolia while other say all the buses are owned by Nassau County. Notice many of the buses have the new official license plate (gold and blue) which would indicate a change in ownership-registration (MTA to Nassau County) while others still have the old official plate (white and blue) which would indicate MTA still owns them but that is just my guesstimate. That is very interesting with the plates, I never noticed some buses still had the old empire plate. Which buses are those? The reason the buses changed plate (that I thought) was because Veolia was the operator, they were re registered under the new operator (Veolia) not of a change of ownership, even if they were leasing buses from the the buses would need to be registered under Veolia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N-Trizzy2609 Posted February 16, 2012 Share #6 Posted February 16, 2012 Regarding the last order of buses before NICE's creation (believe the 1700 and 1800 series), is the MTA retaining ownership and leasing them to Nassau County, were the sold to Nassau County. Never did hear the final outcome of that. Trevor Logan answered this question in a previous thread, so I'll repost what he said. "Yes, buses #1760-1839 were MTA-owned and are now leased to Nassau County/Veolia. #1700-1759 are directly owned by Nassau County as are all of the Orion 05.501 CNGs. The 1800s specifically were purchased with TIGER grant funds that were granted to the MTA not Nassau County. Thus why those buses are Soup to Nuts, MTA-spec'd, there was no input from the county on those buses unlike the 1700s. The upper 1700s share a little more MTA spec than the lower 1700s. Also the major sight factor is the blue stripe. All Nassau County owned buses had to wear county colors (Orange & Blue). Nassau County threw a huge hissy-fit when the MTA stripped off a couple of Orion 5s into straight blue and had to return those units to Orange & Blue stripping." Answers everything right here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6 Limited Posted February 16, 2012 Share #7 Posted February 16, 2012 That explains the NICE Wraps also. If they were to return the vehicles to the MTA, all they'd have to do is pull the wraps off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac5689 Posted February 16, 2012 Share #8 Posted February 16, 2012 What's the big deal? Do you not have an answer? Never saw the answer if as you imply, it's be discussed to death. Notice many of the buses have the new official license plate (gold and blue) which would indicate a change in ownership-registration (MTA to Nassau County) while others still have the old official plate (white and blue) which would indicate MTA still owns them but that is just my guesstimate. There was another thread where the question was brought up and I gave my answer there. That explains the NICE Wraps also. If they were to return the vehicles to the MTA, all they'd have to do is pull the wraps off. No buses operated in Nassau are owned by the MTA, the warps are done to save money and probably time then painting the buses. NASCAR teams use Wraps, so they don't have to repaint a car with a different sponsor for just one race. Or at least they used it at the start of the decade. You had someone say that the former head of the MTA said himself that the Nassau owned all the buses. And I heard the same thing from a person who got it straight from the source (or something like that) that said that Nassau owns all the buses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeystoneRegional Posted February 17, 2012 Share #9 Posted February 17, 2012 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac5689 Posted February 17, 2012 Share #10 Posted February 17, 2012 Technically the owns Orion VII #1760-1839, the rest are Nassau County's own busses, Jay Walder could say it like that, but really he is being "nice" to Nassau County. If the put more money in the busses, #1760-1839 are in NYC, not in Nassau now. If you have the proof of what you say then please produce it, otherwise I'll believe what the ex head of the MTA said as well as the other person (who said he has seen the proof that Nassau owns all the buses) who told me the Nassau owns all the buses. I mean you can say its the truth but without producing anything that backs up your claim, you can't claim it as fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marctalky1 Posted February 17, 2012 Share #11 Posted February 17, 2012 If you have the proof of what you say then please produce it, otherwise I'll believe what the ex head of the MTA said as well as the other person (who said he has seen the proof that Nassau owns all the buses) who told me the Nassau owns all the buses. I mean you can say its the truth but without producing anything that backs up your claim, you can't claim it as fact. From what I've seen anything 1759 and below has the mta written off the handicap sign in the front. 1760 and above don't have it taken down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Posted February 17, 2012 Share #12 Posted February 17, 2012 If you have the proof of what you say then please produce it, otherwise I'll believe what the ex head of the MTA said as well as the other person (who said he has seen the proof that Nassau owns all the buses) who told me the Nassau owns all the buses. I mean you can say its the truth but without producing anything that backs up your claim, you can't claim it as fact. Nassau does NOT outright own 1760-1839. Those units are leased to Nassau County. Unlike the Orion 5s which were outright purchased by Nassau County or even 1700-1759 which have part Nassau County funds used to purchase those buses, 1760-1799 was purchased wholly with MTA funds and 1800-1839 was purchased wholly by the MTA with a ARRA/TIGER grant with ZERO Nassau County involvement. I was told by an extremely reliable source (someone who is involved with procurement of MTA buses) that this is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrstone Posted February 17, 2012 Share #13 Posted February 17, 2012 Since there were many different answers, I fgured I'd ask NICE. Here's their answer, hope this clears it up. Thank you for your Inquiry, The buses and facilities are owned the County. I hope this clarifies the question. If there is anything else I can do, please don’t hesitate to ask. Jack Khzouz Director of Marketing and Communications Nassau County Jack.Khzouz@Veoliatransdev.com 516.749.8453 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted February 17, 2012 Share #14 Posted February 17, 2012 Since there were many different answers, I fgured I'd ask NICE. Here's their answer, hope this clears it up. Thank you for your Inquiry, The buses and facilities are owned the County. I hope this clarifies the question. If there is anything else I can do, please don’t hesitate to ask. Jack Khzouz Director of Marketing and Communications Nassau County Jack.Khzouz@Veoliatransdev.com 516.749.8453 LOL the buses OWN the county. Whose mistake is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrstone Posted February 18, 2012 Share #15 Posted February 18, 2012 Actually it says the buses and facilities owned the County, lol, actually maybe they did under the days. lmao j/k While I love to have fun and poke fun, to be serious the guy you pick on for making a simple typo is the guy who has been good about answering emails for people on this forum. I mean he got back to me and fast. He answered a question for me and gave us an answer for a question that many different people had a different answer to, a question that has been unsure on this forum since the beginning of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B17EastNewYorkDepot Posted February 18, 2012 Share #16 Posted February 18, 2012 http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/f211/mta-nice-relationship-33736.html -believe what you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrstone Posted February 18, 2012 Share #17 Posted February 18, 2012 I've read that thread and it's one of the reasons I emailed Veolia, so many people have a different answer on the topic. So I emailed Veolia for a clear answer. I got a clear answer and I shared it. So why should I "believe it if I like?" Is there a reason I should believe this employee of Veolia is lying or doesn't know what he is talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted February 19, 2012 Share #18 Posted February 19, 2012 What's the big deal? Do you not have an answer? Never saw the answer if as you imply, it's be discussed to death. Notice many of the buses have the new official license plate (gold and blue) which would indicate a change in ownership-registration (MTA to Nassau County) while others still have the old official plate (white and blue) which would indicate MTA still owns them but that is just my guesstimate. There was another thread where the question was brought up and I gave my answer there. No buses operated in Nassau are owned by the MTA, the warps are done to save money and probably time then painting the buses. NASCAR teams use Wraps, so they don't have to repaint a car with a different sponsor for just one race. Or at least they used it at the start of the decade. You had someone say that the former head of the MTA said himself that the Nassau owned all the buses. And I heard the same thing from a person who got it straight from the source (or something like that) that said that Nassau owns all the buses. Nassau does NOT outright own 1760-1839. Those units are leased to Nassau County. Unlike the Orion 5s which were outright purchased by Nassau County or even 1700-1759 which have part Nassau County funds used to purchase those buses, 1760-1799 was purchased wholly with MTA funds and 1800-1839 was purchased wholly by the MTA with a ARRA/TIGER grant with ZERO Nassau County involvement. I was told by an extremely reliable source (someone who is involved with procurement of MTA buses) that this is the case. Legally, MTA owns the buses. Tecnically Nassau County owns the buses. It's as simple as that. Therefore Trevor is actually correct. Nassau had nothing to do with the order of those buses. This information came from 2 of my sources. One within the MTA, and one within Orion. For all technical purposes Nassau owns the buses, which cannot be used elsewhere by law. Legally, they were purchased by the MTA though. The contract was awarded by MTA. The buses were spec'd by the MTA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac5689 Posted February 19, 2012 Share #19 Posted February 19, 2012 Legally, MTA owns the buses. Tecnically Nassau County owns the buses. It's as simple as that. Therefore Trevor is actually correct. Nassau had nothing to do with the order of those buses. This information came from 2 of my sources. One within the MTA, and one within Orion. For all technical purposes Nassau owns the buses, which cannot be used elsewhere by law. Legally, they were purchased by the MTA though. The contract was awarded by MTA. The buses were spec'd by the MTA. If this is the same Trevor that told me incorrect info about a SCT bus in the past, and had clearly had info that incorrectly labeled and missed buses. Then why should I believe him now? I'm sorry but when I'm lied to, I tend to not believe that person in the future. I mean if the MTA owned the buses under law and were leasing them to Nassau/Veolia then I'm sure Newsday (even if they are bad) would have reported that fact. The only thing they reported was that they were leasing Fareboxes. I'm done with this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrstone Posted February 19, 2012 Share #20 Posted February 19, 2012 If this is the same Trevor that told me incorrect info about a SCT bus in the past, and had clearly had info that incorrectly labeled and missed buses. Then why should I believe him now? I'm sorry but when I'm lied to, I tend to not believe that person in the future. I think ENY was confirming that the information was posting is correct. At first I thought maybe NICE would be leasing the new buses coming in this summer from the as they are buses being ordered on an option that the had. Nope, I found out these buses are being paid for by NICE/Nassau County through Government funding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac5689 Posted February 19, 2012 Share #21 Posted February 19, 2012 I think ENY was confirming that the information was posting is correct. At first I thought maybe NICE would be leasing the new buses coming in this summer from the as they are buses being ordered on an option that the had. Nope, I found out these buses are being paid for by NICE/Nassau County through Government funding. Most of the buses that will come in this year will be paid by a government grant, the rest will be paid by Nassau, though some think that Nassau won't have the money to pay for their half of the bus order. I'm not getting into the ownership of the buses anymore, I know what I was told by someone who saw written down. He can parade this Trevor guy (but like I said if its who I think it is I don't trust him) and his source at the MTA and Orion all he wants, I mean just because he says they are 'In the know" doesn't mean that they actually know it. I've heard stuff from people who were "in the know" and its turned out to be wrong. But like I said I'm done with this topic which if I'm correct when I posted at the start of the thread has turned into a big stinking mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrstone Posted February 20, 2012 Share #22 Posted February 20, 2012 I'm not getting into the ownership of the buses anymore, I know what I was told by someone who saw written down. Yes I was told by a good source that these buses are coming as long as the funding comes in. Nassau is paying for half? That seems high? From a lot of bus orders I have read about around the Country, the funding usually covers about 80% of the cost. When will it be known if (if it isn't already) that this is a done deal? I mean it takes a while to build a bus and we're talking about buses they are expecting this summer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Up Front Posted February 20, 2012 Share #23 Posted February 20, 2012 ITT: Foamers butthurt that buses meant for Nassau aren't going anywhere :lock: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted February 20, 2012 Share #24 Posted February 20, 2012 If this is the same Trevor that told me incorrect info about a SCT bus in the past, and had clearly had info that incorrectly labeled and missed buses. Then why should I believe him now? I'm sorry but when I'm lied to, I tend to not believe that person in the future. I mean if the MTA owned the buses under law and were leasing them to Nassau/Veolia then I'm sure Newsday (even if they are bad) would have reported that fact. The only thing they reported was that they were leasing Fareboxes. I'm done with this issue. First of all you need to calm down and slow your roll. Second of all, 99% of any and all information I have posted over the last 4 years has been correct. Just because someone posted information that may not have been totally accurate doesn't mean shit. And it definitely doesnt mean it was a blatant lie. We are all human, and we get things wrong at times. Third of all, it doesnt really matter to me where you got your information. When an executive at Orion tells me something, I'm quite sure they know what the hell they are talking about since they were the ones that were awarded the contract. And the news??? You wanna know how many times I have seen incorrect information cited by the news when it comes to the MTA? More than I can count. Lastly, I'm not parading anyone around, so please don't make shit out to be what it's not, because that right there my friend IS a lie..... And a key phrase in one of your posts says you were told by someone who saw it written down..... What exactly did they see, because I saw the contract with my own two eyes, AND have a copy of it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted February 20, 2012 Share #25 Posted February 20, 2012 Yes I was told by a good source that these buses are coming as long as the funding comes in. Nassau is paying for half? That seems high? From a lot of bus orders I have read about around the Country, the funding usually covers about 80% of the cost. When will it be known if (if it isn't already) that this is a done deal? I mean it takes a while to build a bus and we're talking about buses they are expecting this summer.... You are correct, Nassau only has to pay about 20% for the total cost of the buses. The first 23 of the buses are expected this spring/summer. There were incorrect reports of the buses coming in January. Ironically, one of the newspapers reported it too! It doesnt take long to build a bus at all. A day and a half at most, and if the specs arent changed too much then they will likely be delivered at a rapid rate. Their may not even be a 30 day pilot trial. The buses may just come right in. The deal is pretty much done, as it was started under the MTA, and everything was transferred over to Nassau control when Veolia took over. I'm doing updates tomorrow and Tuesday across the whole board, and I will have a full update on all orders, including NICE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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