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Acela Express

How about introducing peak hour B8 LTD service

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I've ridden the B8 countless times, and during the day, moreso the AM & PM rush hours, those buses are jammed packed. The route itself is quite long, so why not introduce rush-hour weekday LIMITED service to speed the travel for folks going to and from the VA / Brookdale Hospitals? Then again, I'm looking at their schedule, and even during rush hours there's about 8-10 buses per hour. Is it possible, by any means?

 

B8LTDs (eastbound) would serve local stops til Cropsey & 18th Avenue, then:

 

- Bath Avenue [b64]

- 86th Street [b1] (optional)

- New Utrecht Ave [D Train]

- Bay Ridge Parkway [b4]

- 64th Street [N train]

- 60th Street [b9]

- 54th Street [Touro College] (optional)

- 50th / 49th Street [b11]

- McDonald Avenue [F train]

- Coney Island Avenue & 18th Avenue [b68]

- Foster Avenue & Coney Island Avenue

- Newkirk Plaza (E. 15th Street - B/Q Trains)

- Bedford-Flatbush Avenues (B41 & B49)

- Nostrand & Avenue D [b44\44LTD]

- New York Avenue [b44/44LTD]

- East 42nd Street [serves local businesses]

- Utica Avenue [b46/46LTD]

- Kings Highway [b7]

- Beverly Rd. & Kings Highway (optional)

- Ralph Avenue [b47]

- Remsen Avenue & Avenue B [b17]

- Church Avenue & Remsen Avenue [b17/B35]

- Church Avenue & Linden Blvd.

 

Local service from Linden Blvd. & Church Avenue all the way to terminus at Rockaway & Hegeman Avenues.

 

So, 19-22 LIMITED stops for the B8.

 

Sidenote: long f*** line, indeed.

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I suggested this on the other site not too long ago and they claimed that the local stops would have too big of a service gap.

 

The B8 doesn't run frequent enough to have a limited, a limited would only be possible between Nostrand and Rockaway Ave, as that part of the route has shorter headways because of the short turns.

 

And TBH, most of the VA hospital riders get on at the 86th Street stop near the (D) train station, very few riders ride past that station.

Edited by trainfan22

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You're right about the B8 not having enough runs to cover LTD service, as they can add a few more runs during rush hour to help out, like perhaps using other route runs (interlined) to assist, peak-hours only. It seems the B8 runs every 8 minutes during rush, with a few short-turns the assist between Nostrand Ave & Brownsville terminus.

 

Now, as for your claim of VA folks not using the B8 past 86th Street - you're absolutely wrong. There's a lot of folks who actually ride from the VA to Hege and Rock every day. It's a long trip, which is why the idea of LTD service can be introduced, if they were to add maybe 3-5 buses per hour in each direction. I have first hand knowledge because one of my relatives works the B8, and she's been doing it for years.

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I would look into why B8's are arriving so few & far between during the pm rush hour (either direction), before I'd introduce LTD's on that route..... B8's tend to run (or at the very least, arrive) very frequently during the morning rush, and not near as frequent during the pm rush.... I mentioned that in another thread, and would like to know why that is....

 

In any event, if I were to throw LTD service on the 8, the LTD portion would be between VA hosp. itself to utica av.... then all local stops b/w utica av & rockaway av....

 

 

And TBH, most of the VA hospital riders get on at the 86th Street stop near the (D) train station, very few riders ride past that station.

That's just not true.... you'd be surprised how many ppl. in my neck of the woods (East Flatbush) ride out to VA hospital.... add in the folks that embark at newkirk on the (B/Q), and you get a sizeable amt. of ppl..... and no way are there a small amt. of riders that use the B8 between 86th st (D) & the hospital....

 

But what I will say is, ever since they cut service (well, outside of late nights) to 95th st (R), there is a bit of a decrease in usage b/w that stint... not enough to say very few riders though......

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Yea, quite a few people from the VA ride past 86th Street, but from what I noticed there scattered out, like 1 or 2 people per bus, that's what I noticed when I ride it in the morning (I don't ride the same run everyday). Then the bus be nearly empty when it gets to 86th Street, if its those runs that are scheduled to get there around 8AM, get SRO at that stop.

 

Then again a lot of jobs there start @ 7:30, so its possible those early runs have Brownsville/East Flatbush - VA Hosp riders in the masses.

 

 

 

Yea, I know the B8 is well used between VA Hosp and the (D) train, in the morning buses going in the other direction in that part of the route be SRO sometimes.

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The thing that's annoying is that the MTA would probably bring up that stupid standard that routes have to meet to qualify for limited-stop service (5 minute headways on weekdays, 6 minutes on weekends). Their logic is based on having a 1:1 ratio of locals to limiteds. (So they don't want local riders waiting more than 10 minutes for a bus).

 

But the thing is that there doesn't necessarily have to be a 1:1 ratio. 6 minute headways is 10 buses per hour (BPH), and 10 minute headways would be 6 BPH. So they could convert some local buses into limited buses, but not have them at a 1:1 ratio (so have the local run every 10 minutes and the limited run every 15 minutes, and you still have the same level of service, but people benefit from the limited). Since limiteds have a shorter running time than locals, you could probably even add another bus per hour (bringing headways down to 12 minutes) for little to no cost (plus, you attract ridership, which increases revenue)

 

 

 

I would look into why B8's are arriving so few & far between during the pm rush hour (either direction), before I'd introduce LTD's on that route..... B8's tend to run (or at the very least, arrive) very frequently during the morning rush, and not near as frequent during the pm rush.... I mentioned that in another thread, and would like to know why that is....

 

 

I think that's a systemwide thing to have more frequent service in the morning than in the afternoon. In the morning, you have schoolkids adding to the ridership, plus people all tend to start their work during the same timer period. In the afternoon, you don't have the schoolkids, and people don't all finish work at the same time.

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I think that's a systemwide thing to have more frequent service in the morning than in the afternoon. In the morning, you have schoolkids adding to the ridership, plus people all tend to start their work during the same timer period. In the afternoon, you don't have the schoolkids, and people don't all finish work at the same time.

 

I suppose....

 

The way I see it though, that's no reason or excuse to shortchange service the way they do during the pm hrs on the B8.... I find the buses to be more packed during the PM than the AM on that route, easily....

 

During the AM, SB (which would be the peak dir.), you can stand on utica/av D or even before the buses make the turn onto Nostrand for the subway, and see buses damn near empty.... that's a problem.... There is a noticable discrepancy b/w the loads during the respective rush hours' on the B8....

 

The route & the way it's ran is all discombobulated....

Maybe because more physical buses are dedicated to the B35 during the pm rush, I don't know - that's just an educated guess..... Whatever the case is, something should be done to rectify the matter....

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After overlooking the B8's scheduling, it seems they have:

 

Westbound

6AM: 8 BPH w/ 3 additional shuttles (short-turns) to Nostrand Avenue, only.

7AM: 11 BPH w/ 1 shuttle to Nostrand Avenue

8AM: 8 BPH w/ no shuttles

9AM: 5 BPH w/ no shuttles

 

Now, the eastbound PM peak service seems to outweigh the AM peak, with 13 shuttle runs between Nostrand Ave & Brownsville and buses runing every 5-10 minutes.

 

Adding maybe 13-14 buses BPH can probably accommodate LTD service, even if they're able to get interlined help, or peak service tripper routes from another depot.

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I agree that with the suggestions involving the B/8 limited and I wholeheartly endose the return to 95th Street and 4th Avenue as it was before 2010. The B/8 is a long crosstown route that serves many different communities and many people that transferred to the S/53, S/79 and S/93 at 92nd Street and Fort Hamilton Parkway during the day and on weekends are unable to do so now.I always saw that there were 15 -20 people for the B/8 This important transfer point and traffic generator has been eliminated in the "name of duplication" and the passengers now have to take a third bus if they are going to Staten Island such as the B/1 (or B/70) or taking the long, long walk from the Veterans Hospital to the 92nd Street stop. The replacement B/70 does the riders of the B/8 no good as the two routes serve opposite ends of Brooklyn.

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I can picture if and when Gleason gets artics, that the B8 getting those big baby first then it getting 'limited.' With that said, i think more rush hour short turns running between the Newkirk Plaza("B" & "Q" station)and Nostrand/Newirk (2/5 lines)and Utica/Ave. D is needed though, With Flatbush depot planned to soon get artics, you can place those on the "B8." With that said, if the "Q36" in Queens which is much less busy than the "B8" can have rush hour 'limited' why not this important brooklyn line?

 

Also I strongly felt that full time 95th St needs to be restored asap. The regular short turn trips on the "B8' should really start/end at the 18th Ave/86th "D" Train station not the VA Hosptial. That '1' way the TA could save money since ridership *south* of 86th St/18th Ave could handle service every 10-15 minutes most of the day. (not counting rush hours)

 

While the "B8" is busy during weekdays, it not crushloaded 7 days a week like the B35, B41, B44 and B46 though. Visiting my friend occaional who fixes my computer and lives near the B8 or B6, ( Foster and East 38th)the B8 on weekends is rarely SRO unless it really late.

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While the "B8" is busy during weekdays, it not crushloaded 7 days a week like the B35, B41, B44 and B46 though. Visiting my friend occaional who fixes my computer and lives near the B8 or B6, ( Foster and East 38th)the B8 on weekends is rarely SRO unless it really late.

 

This is why I mentioned "rush hour" only.

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@ShortLine Bus: You have to consider the situation the Q36 is in. It has a ready-made local (the Q1, as well as the Q76/Q77 to a certain extent), so all they had to do was change those local buses into limiteds and call it a day. By contrast, for the B8, they actually have to add service so it meets the requirements for limited-stop service (since they insist on following those standards).

 

Ridership isn't the end-all factor in a route getting limited-stop service. If you think about it, the ridership of the Q36 is comparable to that of a lot of SI routes, so by that logic, those shouldn't have limited service either. But if you think about it, a lot of those routes that receive limited-stop service would have to have 2 buses meeting the ferry, or else they'd get overcrowded, so they send one of them limited to provide faster service. It's the same situation here: The MTA is running a bunch of buses down Hillside Avenue anyway, so they figure they might as well send some limited to speed up passengers' trips for no extra cost (in fact, the decreased running time actually saves them a little bit of money).

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I've ridden the B8 countless times, and during the day, moreso the AM & PM rush hours, those buses are jammed packed. The route itself is quite long, so why not introduce rush-hour weekday LIMITED service to speed the travel for folks going to and from the VA / Brookdale Hospitals? Then again, I'm looking at their schedule, and even during rush hours there's about 8-10 buses per hour. Is it possible, by any means?

 

B8LTDs (eastbound) would serve local stops til Cropsey & 18th Avenue, then:

 

- Bath Avenue [b64]

- 86th Street [b1] (optional)

- New Utrecht Ave [D Train]

- Bay Ridge Parkway [b4]

- 64th Street [N train]

- 60th Street [b9]

- 54th Street [Touro College] (optional)

- 50th / 49th Street [b11]

- McDonald Avenue [F train]

- Coney Island Avenue & 18th Avenue [b68]

- Foster Avenue & Coney Island Avenue

- Newkirk Plaza (E. 15th Street - B/Q Trains)

- Bedford-Flatbush Avenues (B41 & B49)

- Nostrand & Avenue D [b44\44LTD]

- New York Avenue [b44/44LTD]

- East 42nd Street [serves local businesses]

- Utica Avenue [b46/46LTD]

- Kings Highway [b7]

- Beverly Rd. & Kings Highway (optional)

- Ralph Avenue [b47]

- Remsen Avenue & Avenue B [b17]

- Church Avenue & Remsen Avenue [b17/B35]

- Church Avenue & Linden Blvd.

 

Local service from Linden Blvd. & Church Avenue all the way to terminus at Rockaway & Hegeman Avenues.

 

So, 19-22 LIMITED stops for the B8.

 

Sidenote: long f**king line, indeed.

 

don't be surprised if they do eventually

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@ShortLine Bus: You have to consider the situation the Q36 is in. It has a ready-made local (the Q1, as well as the Q76/Q77 to a certain extent), so all they had to do was change those local buses into limiteds and call it a day. By contrast, for the B8, they actually have to add service so it meets the requirements for limited-stop service (since they insist on following those standards).

 

Ridership isn't the end-all factor in a route getting limited-stop service. If you think about it, the ridership of the Q36 is comparable to that of a lot of SI routes, so by that logic, those shouldn't have limited service either. But if you think about it, a lot of those routes that receive limited-stop service would have to have 2 buses meeting the ferry, or else they'd get overcrowded, so they send one of them limited to provide faster service. It's the same situation here: The MTA is running a bunch of buses down Hillside Avenue anyway, so they figure they might as well send some limited to speed up passengers' trips for no extra cost (in fact, the decreased running time actually saves them a little bit of money).

 

Well for some reason I think the Q36 was just made for those people along the N24 corridor only using trips wholly within Queens instead of a Connector to a Subway. The limited dont cut it at all. I would give the limited stop service to a different bus route since the Q43 along Hillside already has limited stop service in the peak direction.The B8,B15,Q60,and Q54 OR Q24 need it badly due to crunching up. I could see the Q54 having a limited.

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Well for some reason I think the Q36 was just made for those people along the N24 corridor only using trips wholly within Queens instead of a Connector to a Subway. The limited dont cut it at all. I would give the limited stop service to a different bus route since the Q43 along Hillside already has limited stop service in the peak direction.The B8,B15,Q60,and Q54 OR Q24 need it badly due to crunching up. I could see the Q54 having a limited.

 

 

There's nothing saying that having a Q36 limited prevents other routes from getting a limited.

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