Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[Bounad Hanhic]

The problem that I have with the Q100 is that buses at times can be empty on a Monday but you can't even get on those buses at the same time of day on a Friday.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Bounad Hanhic

[aemoreira81]

You can always direct that suggestion to him (instead of me)....

 

Well that's why the current Q100 works - It's a line that provides LTD service along 21st (which I'd say is most definitely needed) & a line that brings w/e visitors & workers to Rikers in a rather efficient fashion..... Yes, I remember the old 101R & there's nothing that really suggests that we should re-visit the way it used to run - for the sake of saving mileage....

 

It's not like usage to/from rikers is ill-used (if this was infact the case, then maybe I'd agree w/ what you're posing here).....

 

With that 1st proposal you posed, that would give the MTA all the more reason to consider merging/fusing the 100 into a 69 LTD or something (which would likely mean less LTD service than what those patrons get with the current 100).... And the second proposal, even though you're keeping service to rikers intact, it would be at an irregular basis....

 

The irregular basis would be consistent with when service is needed---during visiting hours for inmates (there are no Monday or Tuesday visiting hours at any DOC jails, and the times I initially mentioned were mentioned to provide service from 45 minutes before visiting hours begin to 45 minutes after they end on Wednesday through Sunday) and during shift changes (currently at 0000, 0800, and 1600 hours). Other times, you have no reason to be on Rikers' Island unless you work or are incarcerated there. You need more service Wednesday through Sunday than Monday and Tuesday.

[qjtransitmaster]

But the best thing with the Q69 is to give the Q69 its own limited instead of having the Q100 be the limited stop service. I would set up a Q69 limited to be a slower limited than the Q100.

 

 

Also the X51 should not merge with the QM3. NYCT and MTA Bus routes cannot merge and the QM3 as is a fast route, it is a route that is hard to revise regardless of the area that it traverses. Merging it with the X51 would make the route slower, taking it off Northern in the Auburndale Bayside area would get NIMBY opposition (we tried to address a possible express bus service that serves the more residential parts of Auburndale and Bayside unlike the current QM3 which runs on Northern and we met NIMBY opposition that ultimately killed any chance of us doing it). The best thing that can be done with the QM3 is to throw an extra bus or two on the line to expand the span of service on the QM3 and to see what happens as the later two AM trips on the QM3 can get seated loads (sometimes the QM3 can get SRO or people opt not to take the bus because of lack of seats)

Wow they hate QM3 like that? It would be cheaper for MTA to cross-honor express bus plus on LIRR at rush hours it would give em an excuse to kill off the x64 and truncate x63 @ hook creek blvd. And where do most QM3 riders go to?

[Q43LTD]

Wow they hate QM3 like that? It would be cheaper for MTA to cross-honor express bus plus on LIRR at rush hours it would give em an excuse to kill off the x64 and truncate x63 @ hook creek blvd. And where do most QM3 riders go to?

What does the LIRR have to do with the X64?!

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Wow they hate QM3 like that? It would be cheaper for MTA to cross-honor express bus plus on LIRR at rush hours it would give em an excuse to kill off the x64 and truncate x63 @ hook creek blvd. And where do most QM3 riders go to?

The LIRR goes nowhere near where the X63 or X64 go in Manhattan. Just because it's faster to Manhattan doesnt mean it's the fastest place to wherever you're going.

[B35 via Church]

The problem that I have with the Q100 is that buses at times can be empty on a Monday but you can't even get on those buses at the same time of day on a Friday.

The problem I have with the B35 in the morning is that I have to wait for at least 5 buses (local or LTD) to pass at the nearest LTD stop before I can even attempt to get on the 6th one heading towards the subway... That (and other reasons) is why I don't bother taking it..... But I don't have that problem boarding a B35 at the same stop heading that same direction during the evening hours.....

 

That doesn't mean I want to frontload service in that particular direction during those particular times & have service running like absolute crap, during other times of the day....

 

The only difference with the analogy/situation I'm using is, you want to frontload service on particular days over others with the Q100.....

 

The irregular basis would be consistent with when service is needed---during visiting hours for inmates (there are no Monday or Tuesday visiting hours at any DOC jails, and the times I initially mentioned were mentioned to provide service from 45 minutes before visiting hours begin to 45 minutes after they end on Wednesday through Sunday) and during shift changes (currently at 0000, 0800, and 1600 hours). Other times, you have no reason to be on Rikers' Island unless you work or are incarcerated there. You need more service Wednesday through Sunday than Monday and Tuesday.

Irregular service is still irregular; You're trying to make a case for consistent irregular service... Lol !...

 

The Q100 is a public service.... Having no reason to be on Rikers Island; Listen, if Rikers Island didn't want public buses on the property during those (or any other) times, the Q100 wouldn't run there... The Q101R would've never ran there.....

 

See, what you want to do is justify taking regular service away to/from Rikers Island for the sake of prolonging the LTD service (Q100) that the folks along 21st currently get, by either revoking or severely limiting bus service to/from the facility (as per your 2 proposals)..... In retort to a prior point made, you bring up that corrections should use their own bus.... Yeah, because we're gonna have said buses running b/w some particular point & the prison facility to pick up shift workers & visitors..... Really now.....

 

I got you, loud & clear..... I understand your position, I simply don't agree with it.....

 

 

What does the LIRR have to do with the X64?!

Squat.....

 

....and you see what he did there, didn't you....

 

It would be cheaper for MTA to cross-honor express bus plus on LIRR at rush hours it would give em an excuse to kill off the x64 and truncate x63 @ hook creek blvd.

The MTA wouldn't cross-honor anything to get rid of the x64 & truncate the x63 from serving Rosedale...

The MTA most definitely has its problems, but don't hide behind them to push a suggestion you would make...

[qjtransitmaster]

The LIRR goes nowhere near where the X63 or X64 go in Manhattan. Just because it's faster to Manhattan doesnt mean it's the fastest place to wherever you're going.

Q4 LTD to LIRR or that. St albans has decent rush hour frequency surprisingly. Similar to x64 frequency. However x63 is more direct and faster than LIRR for merrick blvd and linden blvd patrons.

@B35 how can B35 LTD be fixed? As bobtehpanda said earlier having people use LIRR is cheaper to operate than some express buses. In a few cases and this can be done for just rush hour only as those buses are rush only. However it won't have much effect on the bulk of the x63's ridership however. Only the 10 or so Rosedale riders may switch to LIRR.

Edited June 4, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Q4 LTD to LIRR or that. St albans has decent rush hour frequency surprisingly. Similar to x64 frequency. However x63 is more direct and faster than LIRR for merrick blvd and linden blvd patrons.

Does the LIRR go along 3rd Avenue, or 57 street, or 5th Avenue, even 23 street. Don't mention the bus or the subway, no one is gonna do that. The LIRR is for Long Island, not so that trains can be messed up more. Why do you think people take the X64?

[qjtransitmaster]

Does the LIRR go along 3rd Avenue, or 57 street, or 5th Avenue, even 23 street. Don't mention the bus or the subway, no one is gonna do that. The LIRR is for Long Island, not so that trains can be messed up more. Why do you think people take the X64?

you mean the few dude you overestimate it's ridership soon ESA would render it useless just stop. Next. The reason no one does it is because it requires 2 passes Instead of one. If it was doable at no extra charge they would use the fastest way clearly that is not the x64. Surprisingly LIRR already serves SE queens and that area well at rush hour minus the van wyck and LIE queens Blvd fail corridors. However a 2 sided HOV should speed up express bus service a bit cause it needs some improvement. Edited June 5, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

you mean the few dude you overestimate it's ridership soon ESA would render it useless just stop. Next. The reason no one does it is because it requires 2 passes Instead of one. If it was doable at no extra charge they would use the fastest way clearly that is not the x64. Surprisingly LIRR already serves SE queens and that area well at rush hour minus the van wyck and LIE queens Blvd fail corridors. However a 2 sided HOV should speed up express bus service a bit cause it needs some improvement.

People prefer to have a seat. LI-nites take the Long Island RailRoad (Mainly Nassau and Suffolkites), which by city limits, is full. You wanna pay 6 dollars to get a seat or to have to stand the whole way then to walk a long time. You tell me....

[checkmatechamp13]

 (Speaking of which, how is SBS going to work on a line that has no locals while the limited service is operating? Are they going to create some sort of Q43 local, or are they going to breathe some new life into the Q1?)

 

The S79 SBS has no corresponding local (even though it's not an actual SBS route). Though the problem here is that there's no local route east of Springfield Blvd, so they might be forced to run some local service.

[bobtehpanda]

you mean the few dude you overestimate it's ridership soon ESA would render it useless just stop. Next. The reason no one does it is because it requires 2 passes Instead of one. If it was doable at no extra charge they would use the fastest way clearly that is not the x64. Surprisingly LIRR already serves SE queens and that area well at rush hour minus the van wyck and LIE queens Blvd fail corridors. However a 2 sided HOV should speed up express bus service a bit cause it needs some improvement.

 

If by "well", you mean that a random train here and there makes the stops, then sure, LIRR serves SE Queens "well".

 

LIRR is not actually cheaper to operate per person than the express bus, and most trains during the peak are standing room only. Not to mention, the SE Queens lines are extremely inconvenient to get to, and only stop in limited areas in SE Queens - not everything is easy to access from Laurelton, St. Albans, and Rosedale.

 

Also, not all of Midtown is within walking distance of Grand Central, so you do need some sort of express bus route, if only for coverage.

[Q43LTD]

Q4 LTD to LIRR or that. St albans has decent rush hour frequency surprisingly. Similar to x64 frequency. However x63 is more direct and faster than LIRR for merrick blvd and linden blvd patrons.

@B35 how can B35 LTD be fixed? As bobtehpanda said earlier having people use LIRR is cheaper to operate than some express buses. In a few cases and this can be done for just rush hour only as those buses are rush only. However it won't have much effect on the bulk of the x63's ridership however. Only the 10 or so Rosedale riders may switch to LIRR.

Please keep in mind that the Q4 LTD doesn't stop at the St Albans LIRR. It's closed for now anyway

[qjtransitmaster]

Please keep in mind that the Q4 LTD doesn't stop at the St Albans LIRR. It's closed for now anyway

thanks for the update man looks like x64 just needs a streamline maybe going through sutphin blvd can be faster than the van wyck. Why was that station closed anyway?

 

If by "well", you mean that a random train here and there makes the stops, then sure, LIRR serves SE Queens "well".

 

LIRR is not actually cheaper to operate per person than the express bus, and most trains during the peak are standing room only. Not to mention, the SE Queens lines are extremely inconvenient to get to, and only stop in limited areas in SE Queens - not everything is easy to access from Laurelton, St. Albans, and Rosedale.

 

Also, not all of Midtown is within walking distance of Grand Central, so you do need some sort of express bus route, if only for coverage.

There is a reason why I did NOT suggest eliminating x63 as it is too important to merrick blvd and most of it's route is not near the LIRR. But with the update from Q43LTD now the same applies to x64. How is it used on liberty?

You forgot locust manor.

Edited June 5, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[qjtransitmaster]

People prefer to have a seat. LI-nites take the Long Island RailRoad (Mainly Nassau and Suffolkites), which by city limits, is full. You wanna pay 6 dollars to get a seat or to have to stand the whole way then to walk a long time. You tell me....

you do realize all trains that serve locust manor and Laurelton and rosedale are far rockaway and long beach trains right? The only stops suffolk trains make in queens are west of jamacia right? Only hempstead trains serve hollis and queens village dude. So the trains only have people from nassau.

[Metro CSW]

I got a Q40 extension.

 

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=201454117027722505932.0004de67d1129482f5c60&msa=0&ll=40.662679,-73.799769&spn=0.004444,0.010568

 

What do you guys think?

[checkmatechamp13]

I think it makes too many turns. People in that area can just make their way over to the Q10 (that's where a Linden Blvd route would come in handy), or say, take the Q7 to the Q3.

[Threxx]

I think it makes too many turns. People in that area can just make their way over to the Q10 (that's where a Linden Blvd route would come in handy), or say, take the Q7 to the Q3.

 

Speaking of Linden Blvd routes...

 

http://goo.gl/maps/7cmKQ

 

The Q41 is also a couple blocks away...

Edited June 5, 2013 by Threxx

[checkmatechamp13]

Speaking of Linden Blvd routes...

 

http://goo.gl/maps/7cmKQ

 

The Q41 is also a couple blocks away...

 

Any particular reason you have it ending by Cross Bay/Pitkin (instead of Rockaway Blvd)?

 

In any case, I'm not sure if another Ozone Park-Jamaica route is needed. I mean, on the western end, you have the Q41 & Q112, and on the eastern end, you have the north-south routes (Q9, Q40, Q6, etc) to go to Jamaica. That was part of the reason the Q89 failed as well: There were other, more direct routes to Jamaica, and without a quick connection to the subway the number of riders using it within Linden Blvd wasn't enough to sustain it (of course, those 90 minute headways didn't help either). Of course, with this new route, it would connect to the train.

 

I think its eastern terminal should either be St. Albans Hospital, or Rochdale Village.

[qjtransitmaster]

I got a Q40 extension.

 

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=201454117027722505932.0004de67d1129482f5c60&msa=0&ll=40.662679,-73.799769&spn=0.004444,0.010568

 

What do you guys think?

I like it it would tie in perfectly.

[Threxx]

Any particular reason you have it ending by Cross Bay/Pitkin (instead of Rockaway Blvd)?

 

In any case, I'm not sure if another Ozone Park-Jamaica route is needed. I mean, on the western end, you have the Q41 & Q112, and on the eastern end, you have the north-south routes (Q9, Q40, Q6, etc) to go to Jamaica. That was part of the reason the Q89 failed as well: There were other, more direct routes to Jamaica, and without a quick connection to the subway the number of riders using it within Linden Blvd wasn't enough to sustain it (of course, those 90 minute headways didn't help either). Of course, with this new route, it would connect to the train.

 

I think its eastern terminal should either be St. Albans Hospital, or Rochdale Village.

 

The intersection is too complicated and that terminal is easier.

 

Personally, it would make no sense to end it before Jamaica, because not everyone wants the slower connection that is the . Plus, it helps supplement Merrick Blvd service.

[B35 via Church]

I got a Q40 extension.

 

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=201454117027722505932.0004de67d1129482f5c60&msa=0&ll=40.662679,-73.799769&spn=0.004444,0.010568

 

What do you guys think?

I like what you're tryna accomplish in general.... I think the wrong route is chosen for it though.....

 

(From Jamaica) - Rather than have the 40 connect to AIRtrain (federal cir), I'd send 9's to AIRtrain (lefferts blvd) - for the simple reason that the Q9 is more efficient than the Q40 (ridership-wise, they both carry about the same amt. of pax).... Q40 tends to lag as it is, and the longer stint on sutphin doesn't help... I would leave it right where it is, just outside the airport, serving S. Jamaica the way it currently does & not even bother with the meandering it'd have to take on to get to Federal Cir....

 

Plus, it helps supplement Merrick Blvd service.

The last thing Merrick needs is more supplemental service.....

 

I think reviving the Q89 in any form or fashion is a lost cause.....

 

In any case, I'm not sure if another Ozone Park-Jamaica route is needed. I mean, on the western end, you have the Q41 & Q112, and on the eastern end, you have the north-south routes (Q9, Q40, Q6, etc) to go to Jamaica. That was part of the reason the Q89 failed as well: There were other, more direct routes to Jamaica, and without a quick connection to the subway the number of riders using it within Linden Blvd wasn't enough to sustain it (of course, those 90 minute headways didn't help either). Of course, with this new route, it would connect to the train.

 

I think its eastern terminal should either be St. Albans Hospital, or Rochdale Village.

I had an old idea that had the Q7 serving Rochdale & the Q3 serving cargo rd.....

 

....But I came to the conclusion that SE Queens folks really don't want the

(can't really blame em; the E does get them to manhattan quicker than the A would... it also offers for more vital subway connections whilst w/i Queens)..... 

[BreeddekalbL]

um what?! and you can guess who this is from on the nyctf facebook. https://www.facebook.com/nyctransitforums/posts/465954866825049

 

 

I read that there are talks of eliminating the X64 when East Side Access is completed!

I would suggest the following that would successfully eliminate the X64 while not affecting the people who need it:

1. Extend the QM21 to Rosedale via Guy R. Brewer Blvd and North/South Conduit Avenues. This will replace the X63 in Rosedale as the route is slightly more direct.

2. Merge the X63 and X64 routes with X63 buses operating via Liberty Avenue between Van Wyck Expwy and Merrick Blvd. Customers to transfer to Q83 buses at Merrick/Liberty for service to Farmers/Murdock, and to Q4 buses at Merrick/Linden. Customers can also take the Q3 to Hillside/187th Street and transfer to X68 buses to Midtown Manhattan. (To avoid duplicating the Q5, the X63 will not stop at 109th Avenue and have the same wide spacing between stops).

3. Start a new X65 route to replace the X64 in Saint Albans. The route travels via the X68 between Midtown and Hillside/187th Street, then via Farmers Blvd to Linden and via Linden Blvd to Cambria Heights.

[B35 via Church]

^^ Not sure why you pay much attention to that dude & his ideas, but:

 

- That first idea, I don't have much of a problem with... I also think the QM21/x63 should be *one service*, but I wouldn't have all service running down to rosedale; a short turn situation of sorts.... Thing is though of course, QM21 is out of baisley & the x63 is out of QV.... There was an old discussion on the forum here involving this suggestion before (See Here)...

 

- What he calls a merge of x63's & x64's I don't agree with at all (it's basically an x63 that serves more of merrick blvd).... You wouldn't need an "x65" otherwise.....

-------------------------------------------------

 

To sum this whole plan up, all he's really doing is taking service off liberty (b/w merrick & farmers) & instead, putting service on:

 

* merrick (b/w liberty & linden), and...

* the portion of the Q3 b/w hillside & liberty/farmers...

 

The gaps in express bus service he's trying to fill, doesn't need filling.... and to boot, Hillside av doesn't need two express buses running along it (his "x65" & the x68), nor does rosedale need two separate services running to/from it (his QM21 & his x63/x64 merge)..... His divvying up of express bus service is what I'm questioning....

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

^^^^ Whoever said that (above B35's post) was smoking something real good last night.

1. The X64 has most trips 3/4 full or higher, maybe when ridership changes, change the headways

2. No need to bring the QM21 or X63 in this as this would be something soley about the X64. How do you manage to make the X63 have a completely different route in Queens

3. There is no need for a 4th X68 variation (2AM and 1PM, to 3 AM and 1PM)other than to screw the route up like spaghetti and meatballs.

4. QV doesn't have enough resources for those new "ideas"

5. There would be Union Problems with the X63/QM21 merge.

I personally think the X63 could use midday service, people prefer it than the LIRR, weekdays only.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Q23 Central Terminal