Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[bobtehpanda]

 

I wouldn't extend the the Q64, I just don't think it should happen, 73 has the Q88, and the express, which is enough.

The Q75 wasn't needed then.

 

As for a Q20B extension, how would that work. You can't really extend the Q20B, unless you mean a diversion along the Q34 path.

Correct

I also don't think the express bus should be lowered to $4. IMO, $6 is a somewhat cheap bargain for me. $2.50 is like robbing the bank. I wouldn't mind paying a higher fare on the subway. 

How about 4.50?

I also wouldn't do the $4 thing, it's enough city-ticket does that on the weekend. Takes ridership away from the express on certain routes, believe it or not.

You don't think a rise in LIRR/MNRR ridership would outweigh the con in taking away ridership?

 

 

The LIRR and MNRR have no room to accommodate ridership as it is; there's a very good reason the pricing structure is the way it is now, because both lines are basically at capacity during peak hours, and on certain off-peak trains. No point in pricing for more riders if you can't fit them on trains.

[B35 via Church]

A service is a service it doesn't matter if it's a bus or train for getting from point A to B. If a premium fare his involved with 2 services the fastest wins.

Good, and I'm gonna hold you to this too.... Then I don't wanna hear anymore railroad talk out of you whenever some express bus discussion arises on here....

[bobtehpanda]

A service is a service it doesn't matter if it's a bus or train for getting from point A to B. If a premium fare his involved with 2 services the fastest wins.

 

This is a generalization to the point of being useless (and not to mention, it's downright false). Trains are more comfortable, but trains also require more elevation changes and aren't always ADA accessible (and where ADA accessibility exists, it can be a joke). Buses are more convenient, but they are slower than the subway (but faster than commuter rail if you factor in waiting times). Transportation planning is very complex, and many different factors from the location of popular businesses to school times to weather and just human randomness mean that transportation modelling using millions of dollars is almost always wrong, let alone a statement like this.

 

If this was true, the city stations on the LIRR would have the highest peak ridership in the five boroughs, by virtue of the much higher population density around stations (not counting Penn and Jamaica for obvious reasons). As it is, outside of the PW line, city stations on the LIRR have extremely low ridership.

Edited August 18, 2014 by bobtehpanda

[qjtransitmaster]

Good, and I'm gonna hold you to this too.... Then I don't wanna hear anymore railroad talk out of you whenever some express bus discussion arises on here....

It only applies to just 1 bronx express route if you factor traffic then just 2 coincidentally of which have below average ridership for a bxm route and are lower than BMs after cuts. 1 QM bucks this for some reason but for a line with 3 buses it's used more than it looks so the MTA just keeps it around for this reason alone. The rest of the express bus network is nowhere near MNRR &LIRR and the numbers show why routes like BXM9,7,8 OR QM5/6& 2 succeed position of said routes are a factor you seem to ignore.

[Union Tpke]

NIMBY's oppose change.... A bus route cutting easterly-westerly through Hillcrest/Utopia where there currently isn't any service, is definitely a change.... An unwanted change.... I happen to agree with him.

 

I know what NIMBYs are and I haven't heard about them getting annoyed over buses.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I know what NIMBYs are and I haven't heard about them getting annoyed over buses.

That's because there is no bus to get annoyed at.

[B35 via Church]

It only applies to just 1 bronx express route if you factor traffic then just 2 coincidentally of which have below average ridership for a bxm route and are lower than BMs after cuts. 1 QM bucks this for some reason but for a line with 3 buses it's used more than it looks so the MTA just keeps it around for this reason alone. The rest of the express bus network is nowhere near MNRR &LIRR and the numbers show why routes like BXM9,7,8 OR QM5/6& 2 succeed position of said routes are a factor you seem to ignore.

More like reading what you want to read.....

 

Who said anything about the bronx in-particular? You also pull that shit with the QM3 & the x63, so don't even front like it's just with BxM4 discussions you stay bringing up the railroad in.....

 

I know what NIMBYs are and I haven't heard about them getting annoyed over buses.

You said "why NIMBYs for a bus line?"

 

If you knew what NIMBYism entailed, what was the point in asking that.....

 

That's because there is no bus to get annoyed at.

This.

[qjtransitmaster]

More like reading what you want to read.....

 

Who said anything about the bronx in-particular? You also pull that shit with the QM3 & the x63, so don't even front like it's just with BxM4 discussions you stay bringing up the railroad in.....

 

You said "why NIMBYs for a bus line?"

 

If you knew what NIMBYism entailed, what was the point in asking that.....

 

This.

Qm3 is the one that bucks this due to rider choice which is why MTA keeps it around. X63 to a lesser degree but it seems to have many stops far from LIRR. Enough to keep it plus is all it's ridership was in Rosedale it won't exist merrick blogs props it up. Bxm4 duplicates a LTD directly and a subway line for most it's route in addition it's segment that is far from the subway is close enough to the MNRR that it almost has no outerborough segment without significantly more frequent and in Woodlawn's case faster competition you have to be very high on whatever to comeup with any scenario other than rail mistakes where this bus I mean $6 limo is quicker from Woodlawn to Manhattan than MNRR as the old saying "numbers don't lie" compare it to any other express route exactly you can't. Drop it and move on.

That's because there is no bus to get annoyed at.

Nimbys are nothing more than foolish people meant to be ignored. They kill progress wherever they are the proper term is "angry fools"

[B35 via Church]

Qm3 is the one that bucks this due to rider choice which is why MTA keeps it around. X63 to a lesser degree but it seems to have many stops far from LIRR. Enough to keep it plus is all it's ridership was in Rosedale it won't exist merrick blogs props it up. Bxm4 duplicates a LTD directly and a subway line for most it's route in addition it's segment that is far from the subway is close enough to the MNRR that it almost has no outerborough segment without significantly more frequent and in Woodlawn's case faster competition you have to be very high on whatever to comeup with any scenario other than rail mistakes where this bus I mean $6 limo is quicker from Woodlawn to Manhattan than MNRR as the old saying "numbers don't lie" compare it to any other express route exactly you can't. Drop it and move on.

To hell with your drop it & move on comment.... The fact you even posted these justifications (for the umpteenth millionth & 1 time) proves that it's not "just 1 bronx express route" like you tried to originally claim.... If you wouldn't irrelevantly bring up the f*ckin railroad when said exp. buses are being talked about, you wouldn't have this problem.... It's your way of implicating that those buses aren't worth being talked about.... But yet you still find yourself engaging in those discussions now don't you....

 

Touch a hot stove, feel some type of way that the stove is hot, but still goin touch the shit anyway.... That's you with these BxM4, QM3, and x63 discussions in-particular...

 

When you can't refute something, evade it by requesting that it be dropped....

No accountability having ass MF-ers, I swear....

Edited August 19, 2014 by B35 via Church

[qjtransitmaster]

The LIRR and MNRR have no room to accommodate ridership as it is; there's a very good reason the pricing structure is the way it is now, because both lines are basically at capacity during peak hours, and on certain off-peak trains. No point in pricing for more riders if you can't fit them on trains.

Does that also apply to the Long beach and Far rockaway lines?

 

To hell with your drop it & move on comment.... The fact you even posted these justifications (for the umpteenth millionth & 1 time) proves that it's not "just 1 bronx express route" like you tried to originally claim.... If you wouldn't irrelevantly bring up the f*ckin railroad when said exp. buses are being talked about, you wouldn't have this problem.... It's your way of implicating that those buses aren't worth being talked about.... But yet you still find yourself engaging in those discussions now don't you....

 

Touch a hot stove, feel some type of way that the stove is hot, but still goin touch the shit anyway.... That's you with these BxM4, QM3, and x63 discussions in-particular...

 

When you can't refute something, evade it by requesting that it be dropped....

No accountability having ass MF-ers, I swear....

The other bxm line is 3 but to a much smaller extent not so sure on that one. The elderly have been used as scapegoats for years by many areas not just NYC and MTA but all over the country to keep inefficient routes alive even many small towns across the country do it to try and sway greyhound and other agencies to keep light routes alive. Since this is a queens thread should the Q44 get a super LTD version? If so why? If not againwwhy? I lurked the Brooklyn thread and saw your exchange with that new guy I forgot his name already but you said something about his LGA route needing to reach more people how is that possible? Won't routing it via park ave,meeker and greenpoint ave skip the BQE And having it serve downtown Brooklyn reach more riders?

Edited August 19, 2014 by qjtransitmaster

[bobtehpanda]

Does that also apply to the Long beach and Far rockaway lines?

 

The other bxm line is 3 but to a much smaller extent not so sure on that one. The elderly have been used as scapegoats for years by many areas not just NYC and MTA but all over the country to keep inefficient routes alive even many small towns across the country do it to try and sway greyhound and other agencies to keep light routes alive. Since this is a queens thread should the Q44 get a super LTD version? If so why? If not againwwhy? I lurked the Brooklyn thread and saw your exchange with that new guy I forgot his name already but you said something about his LGA route needing to reach more people how is that possible? Won't routing it via park ave,meeker and greenpoint ave skip the BQE And having it serve downtown Brooklyn reach more riders?

 

It doesn't apply to trains that go to Atlantic (usually), but those trains don't come very often, and there's no feasible way to cut prices on those trains without screwing up the rest of the fare system (because then you'd have two terminal zones, and people would try to smash onto cheaper Atlantic trains and abandon Penn ones, making Jamaica more of a mess than it is now).

 

The elderly are not used as scapegoats, the elderly are some of those who depend on the system the most, and are also the ones who fight to restore routes the hardest. You need to accept that a transit agency is not supposed to be 100% towards maximizing ridership; transit agencies must also provide lifeline services to those without cars, particularly in a city like New York where car ownership is very low compared to the rest of the nation.

 

The Q44 does not need a super limited, since the ridership on Main is fairly evenly spread out (and a super limited means that many riders in Queens would need two or three instead of one or two transfers to get to the Bronx). Brooklyn does not have that kind of concentrated demand for an LGA bus route. Please stop pulling ideas out of your behind.

[Armandito]

No, as it wouldn't get any ridership over there....

 

Look, Here's the problem...

You're way more focused with running buses nonstop, than you are with trying to establish a justifiable riderbase to the route.

 

No latent demand exists for a Brooklyn to LGA route, and the fact that the BQE is the most direct routing to LGA from the Williamsburg area, is a deterrent in & of itself....

 

Any route running from Brooklyn to LGA would have to resemble the structure of the B15 (meaning, serving multiple riderbases)...

Having the route terminate @ Williamsburg Bridge Plaza & directly to LGA won't cut it.... Running the route from Downtown to Williamsburg locally, then nonstop to LGA won't cut it either.... For a Brooklyn to LGA route to garner enough riders to have it run that frequently, it's gonna have to be some sort of LTD interborough type route (like a Q44)..... And it's gonna have to have a bigger reach in Brooklyn than Williamsburg, coming from the north......

If the BQE won't do for a Brooklyn to LGA route, here's my new proposal:

 

B80: Limited-stop service between LaGuardia Airport, Queens, and Downtown Brooklyn via Jay St, Tillary St, Park Av, Williamsburg St, Rodney St (northbound), Marcy Av (southbound), Meeker Av, Kingsland Av (northbound), Monitor St (southbound), Greenpoint Av, 39 St, Northern Blvd, 49 St (northbound), 48 St (southbound), Astoria Blvd, and 23 Av (northbound). Makes only the following stops:

 

On Jay St:

Fulton Mall

Myrtle Promenade

 

On Park Av:

Vanderbilt Av

 

On Williamsburg St (northbound)/Classon Av (southbound):

Flushing Av

 

On Rodney St (northbound)/Marcy Av (southbound):

Broadway

Metropolitan Av

 

On Meeker Av:

Lorimer St

Graham Av

Kingsland Av

 

On Kingsland Av (northbound)/Monitor St (southbound):

Nassau Av

 

On Greenpoint Av:

Borden Av

 

On 39 St:

Queens Blvd

Steinway St/Northern Blvd

 

On 49 St (northbound) and 48 St (southbound):

Broadway

30 Av

 

On Astoria Blvd:

78 St

82 St

 

On 23 Av (northbound):

87 St

94 St

 

Then all stops in LaGuardia Airport

 

The B80 will operate from 6AM to midnight every 30 minutes.

Edited August 19, 2014 by lara8710

[Via Garibaldi 8]

If the BQE won't do for a Brooklyn to LGA route, here's my new proposal:

 

B80: Limited-stop service between LaGuardia Airport, Queens, and Downtown Brooklyn via Jay St, Tillary St, Park Av, Williamsburg St, Rodney St (northbound), Marcy Av (southbound), Meeker Av, Kingsland Av (northbound), Monitor St (southbound), Greenpoint Av, 39 St, Northern Blvd, 49 St (northbound), 48 St (southbound), Astoria Blvd, and 23 Av (northbound). Makes only the following stops:

 

On Jay St:

Fulton Mall

Myrtle Promenade

 

On Park Av:

Vanderbilt Av

 

On Williamsburg St (northbound)/Classon Av (southbound):

Flushing Av

 

On Rodney St (northbound)/Marcy Av (southbound):

Broadway

Metropolitan Av

 

On Meeker Av:

Lorimer St

Graham Av

Kingsland Av

 

On Kingsland Av (northbound)/Monitor St (southbound):

Nassau Av

 

On Greenpoint Av:

Borden Av

 

On 39 St:

Queens Blvd

Steinway St/Northern Blvd

 

On 49 St (northbound) and 48 St (southbound):

Broadway

30 Av

 

On Astoria Blvd:

78 St

82 St

 

On 23 Av (northbound):

87 St

94 St

 

Then all stops in LaGuardia Airport

 

The B80 will operate from 6AM to midnight every 30 minutes.

You love 30 minute headways huh... lol

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

SE Queens Express bus restructuring

 

 

Option 1: 

 

I also wondered, why not have some the X buses have a set up similar to the QM's with a 3/6 Avenue branch loop (in this case, it would be a Madison Avenue and 3 Avenue branch. This would be done on the X63 (3 Avenue service only in the AM). The late AM X68 trips would also operate in a loop similar to the X63.

 

The X64 I would keep as it is, because it's headways are already every 20 minutes.

 

The X63's headways would be 16 minutes for the Madison Avenue Branch, and 25 minutes for the 3 Avenue Branch

 

It would save time for individualized riders instead of going through what I call, a super loop.

 

3 Avenue Branch Buses terminate at 55 Street

Madison Avenue Buses terminate at 3 Avenue/ 57 Street

 

Buses will dive down to 23 Street first, then operate along 23 street, up via Madison Avenue, then 57 Street

 

The only group that will see travel times increase are the riders along north of 50 Street on the proposed Madison Avenue branch. Wait times will increase theroughout the board on the X63

 

 

 

New X63 Travel Times to Midtown- 57 Street from Rosedale

5:50, 6:10, 6:26, 6:42, 6:58, 7:14, 7:30, 7:46, 8:02

 

 

 

 

 

Option 2:

Operating the X63 with Madison Avenue only service, running in a loop as in option 1, and retaining the current headways

 

Operate the X68 as suggest in option 1

Option 3: 

This an option I considered only if ridership dwindles down to kinda horrid levels on the QM21.

Everything in Option 1, and:

 

Merge QM18/QM21 (Eliminates service on Linden Blvd, replaced by the Madison Avenue branch of the X63, and completely eliminates service on Guy R Brewer Blvd)

 

https://www.google.com/maps/ms?msid=204750700533050976010.00050101ac0388e5c45ec&msa=0&ll=40.671655,-73.780403&spn=0.096476,0.209255

Edited August 19, 2014 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Armandito]

You love 30 minute headways huh... lol

That's how the MTA's new bus routes from scratch all started...the B32, B84, Bx46, and M12...and all these routes have buses running every 30 minutes. Edited August 19, 2014 by lara8710

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

SE Queens Express bus restructuring

 

 

Option 1: 

 

I also wondered, why not have some the X buses have a set up similar to the QM's with a 3/6 Avenue branch loop (in this case, it would be a Madison Avenue and 3 Avenue branch. This would be done on the X63 (3 Avenue service only in the AM). The late AM X68 trips would also operate in a loop similar to the X63.

 

The X64 I would keep as it is, because it's headways are already every 20 minutes.

 

The X63's headways would be 15 minutes for the Madison Avenue Branch, and 20 minutes for the 3 Avenue Branch

 

It would save time for individualized riders instead of going through what I call, a super loop.

 

3 Avenue Branch Buses terminate at 55 Street

Madison Avenue Buses terminate at 3 Avenue/ 57 Street

 

Buses will dive down to 23 Street first, then operate along 23 street, up via Madison Avenue, then 57 Street

 

The only group that will see travel times increase are the riders along north of 50 Street on the proposed Madison Avenue branch. Wait times will increase theroughout the board on the X63

 

 

 

Option 2:

Operating the X63 with Madison Avenue only service, running in a loop as in option 1, and retaining the current headways

 

Operate the X68 as suggest in option 1

Option 3: 

This an option I considered only if ridership dwindles down to kinda horrid levels on the QM21.

Everything in Option 1, and:

 

Merge QM18/QM21 (Eliminates service on Linden Blvd, replaced by the Madison Avenue branch of the X63, and completely eliminates service on Guy R Brewer Blvd)

 

https://www.google.com/maps/ms?msid=204750700533050976010.00050101ac0388e5c45ec&msa=0&ll=40.671655,-73.780403&spn=0.096476,0.209255

Minor Edits:

 

 

For Option 1 and 3:

New X63 times to Midtown 57 street via Madison Avenue

5:50 AM, 6:05, 6:20, 6:35, 6:50, 7:05, 7:20, 7:35, 7:50, 8:10 

 

New X63 Times to East Midtown 55 Street via 3 Avenue

6:00 AM, 6:28, 6:48, 7:08, 7:28, 7:48

 

 

[NY1635]

That's how the MTA's new bus routes from scratch all started...the B32, B84, Bx46, and M12...and all these routes have buses running every 30 minutes.

 

Why is the MTA providing suburban bus service for urban areas?

Edited August 19, 2014 by NY1635

[Armandito]

On 49 St (northbound) and 48 St (southbound):

Broadway

30 Av

Just a little edit: The northbound stop at Broadway will be at 47 St, not 49 St. The bus will also travel northbound along 47 St between Northern Blvd and 31 Av. Edited August 19, 2014 by lara8710

[bobtehpanda]

Just a little edit: The northbound stop at Broadway will be at 47 St, not 49 St. The bus will also travel northbound along 47 St between Northern Blvd and 31 Av.

 

Could you pick one thread to post these in, please?

[qjtransitmaster]

You love 30 minute headways huh... lol

MTA seems to as well as many suburban transit agencies.

 

SE Queens Express bus restructuring

 

 

Option 1: 

 

I also wondered, why not have some the X buses have a set up similar to the QM's with a 3/6 Avenue branch loop (in this case, it would be a Madison Avenue and 3 Avenue branch. This would be done on the X63 (3 Avenue service only in the AM). The late AM X68 trips would also operate in a loop similar to the X63.

 

The X64 I would keep as it is, because it's headways are already every 20 minutes.

 

The X63's headways would be 16 minutes for the Madison Avenue Branch, and 25 minutes for the 3 Avenue Branch

 

It would save time for individualized riders instead of going through what I call, a super loop.

 

3 Avenue Branch Buses terminate at 55 Street

Madison Avenue Buses terminate at 3 Avenue/ 57 Street

 

Buses will dive down to 23 Street first, then operate along 23 street, up via Madison Avenue, then 57 Street

 

The only group that will see travel times increase are the riders along north of 50 Street on the proposed Madison Avenue branch. Wait times will increase theroughout the board on the X63

 

 

 

New X63 Travel Times to Midtown- 57 Street from Rosedale

5:50, 6:10, 6:26, 6:42, 6:58, 7:14, 7:30, 7:46, 8:02

 

 

 

 

 

Option 2:

Operating the X63 with Madison Avenue only service, running in a loop as in option 1, and retaining the current headways

 

Operate the X68 as suggest in option 1

Option 3: 

This an option I considered only if ridership dwindles down to kinda horrid levels on the QM21.

Everything in Option 1, and:

 

Merge QM18/QM21 (Eliminates service on Linden Blvd, replaced by the Madison Avenue branch of the X63, and completely eliminates service on Guy R Brewer Blvd)

 

https://www.google.com/maps/ms?msid=204750700533050976010.00050101ac0388e5c45ec&msa=0&ll=40.671655,-73.780403&spn=0.096476,0.209255

Omg did you just make 2 useless routes into one less useless one? admire the effort though.

[qjtransitmaster]

It doesn't apply to trains that go to Atlantic (usually), but those trains don't come very often, and there's no feasible way to cut prices on those trains without screwing up the rest of the fare system (because then you'd have two terminal zones, and people would try to smash onto cheaper Atlantic trains and abandon Penn ones, making Jamaica more of a mess than it is now).

 

The elderly are not used as scapegoats, the elderly are some of those who depend on the system the most, and are also the ones who fight to restore routes the hardest. You need to accept that a transit agency is not supposed to be 100% towards maximizing ridership; transit agencies must also provide lifeline services to those without cars, particularly in a city like New York where car ownership is very low compared to the rest of the nation.

 

The Q44 does not need a super limited, since the ridership on Main is fairly evenly spread out (and a super limited means that many riders in Queens would need two or three instead of one or two transfers to get to the Bronx). Brooklyn does not have that kind of concentrated demand for an LGA bus route. Please stop pulling ideas out of your behind.

On the contrary if you look at the NICE bus network and then overlay a map showing all LIRR stopping patterns in Nassau on each line and then slap on NICE on the same map you would see that slamming onto the say cheaper LB & Far rockaway lines without making traffic very inefficient. Say the fares for SE stations gets dropped and then queens village+Hollis  but for now just SE queens fares get enforced via turnstiles those getting off from queens or short distance pay with metrocard or it's successor those entering stations just go through like a reverse of the subway gates. Buy tickets via metrocard at those stations only fares for babylon trains and into Nassau unaffected remember the layout of roads on the Hempstead line. Those going from Jamaica to Penn pay full price due to duplication of

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

MTA seems to as well as many suburban transit agencies.

 

Omg did you just make 2 useless routes into one less useless one? admire the effort though.

That is only if both routes kinda dwindle down in ridership. It would be a 30 minute headway route as both currently are. That would be my last resort, because I think (and hope) ridership would stay steady as they are or higher for a while. The QM18 and QM21 aren't useless, as people use them, although not as many as most would think or wish for. I think both would stay as it is for a while.

Edited August 20, 2014 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[qjtransitmaster]

That is only if both routes kinda dwindle down in ridership. It would be a 30 minute headway route as both currently are. That would be my last resort, because I think (and hope) ridership would stay steady as they are or higher for a while. The QM18 and QM21 aren't useless, as people use them, although not as many as most would think or wish for. I think both would stay as it is for a while.

Your combination can increase service to 25 minutes or 20 so it can be taken seriously. But they are going to dwindle nothing now is stopping it.

[Armandito]

Here's the B80 route map. Same as I described, except that I rerouted it to Humboldt St northbound and Russell St southbound. Also, Kingsland/Meeker Avs will no longer be a stop. https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zh758mgJc1tw.kQb46ncew3dI

[qjtransitmaster]

Here's the B80 route map. Same as I described, except that I rerouted it to Humboldt St northbound and Russell St southbound. Also, Kingsland/Meeker Avs will no longer be a stop. https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zh758mgJc1tw.kQb46ncew3dI

Persistant aren't ya.