bobtehpanda Posted March 29, 2013 Share #26 Posted March 29, 2013 No, because the thing about catenary in tunnels is that there's no space to put poles or anything to keep the wires taut, and keeping the wires that close to the train probably makes it more likely that something will happen, especially given subway frequency levels. Not to mention, ceiling height in the system is variable, so you'd need to somehow account for that as well. One of the Spanish metro systems (i forget which one) decided to dispense with the wiring problem by putting third rail in brackets on the top of the tunnel in tunnel sections, but if we're doing that, then we might as well just keep the third rail. The main barrier to converting the MTA to anything like this, however, is cost. Like most things MTA related, this has a $$$ problem, and imagine the amount of service disruption that would be needed to remove the third rails and place a new system in, whether it be inductive coils or catenary. As a response to OP's concerns about people getting killed on the tracks, if the MTA really cared, they could dig Tube-style suicide pits in stations, and I believe the newer stations on 63rd St and Archer Avenue have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4 Via Merrick Rd Posted March 31, 2013 Share #27 Posted March 31, 2013 Not to mention the weather can hit +100°f in the summer and that causes power line outages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MTA Bus Posted March 31, 2013 Share #28 Posted March 31, 2013 Why would a subway system, which uses 3rd rail, switch over to overhead wires. This is the subway, not Amtrak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4 Via Merrick Rd Posted March 31, 2013 Share #29 Posted March 31, 2013 Why would a subway system, which uses 3rd rail, switch over to overhead wires. This is the subway, not Amtrak. Gotta a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Culver Posted March 31, 2013 Share #30 Posted March 31, 2013 Not to mention the weather can hit +100°f in the summer and that causes power line outages You're thinking of the old catenary installations we use here on the Northeast Corridor. Balance weights for constant tension are used in civilized countries. Why would a subway system, which uses 3rd rail, switch over to overhead wires. This is the subway, not Amtrak. To be fair, some systems around the world use catenary. Still, it would indeed not make sense for the NYC subway, what with the tunnels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exseed Posted April 1, 2013 Share #31 Posted April 1, 2013 Although most of Tokyo's subway system uses catenary/overhead 3rd rail, there are a couple of lines that use 3rd rail. These two lines are the oldest in the system (the first built in the 1920s and the second in the 60's). If Tokyo Metro doesn't see the need to convert these lines to overhead 3rd rail, then it really isn't that big of an issue. Again, in doing so, the costs would outweigh the benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted April 3, 2013 Share #32 Posted April 3, 2013 You can pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quill Depot Posted April 3, 2013 Share #33 Posted April 3, 2013 No no no, Taxpayer's can!!!! For more stuff we don't need! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depotofrelax Posted April 3, 2013 Share #34 Posted April 3, 2013 CBTC is bad idea... but converting to thrid rail something can happen.. Guess.... It look upon it the pound of a subway it carry it weight.. Guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted April 4, 2013 Share #35 Posted April 4, 2013 No no no, Taxpayer's can!!!! For more stuff we don't need! I'm not paying for that shit...3rd rail works perfectly fine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted April 4, 2013 Share #36 Posted April 4, 2013 I guess I'll ask the obvious question.... How are cat' wires any safer than 3rd rail? Unfortunately, you're gonna get the idiot(s) (referring to NON MTA personnel) that's gonna attempt to go onto the tracks to do whatever, regardless of the subway's power source.... Whether they get zapped and/or hit by an oncoming train, is moot.... Cat' wires being higher up & 3rd rail being at rail level doesn't make going on the tracks any safer..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dp142 Posted July 2, 2013 Share #37 Posted July 2, 2013 Most tunnels and underground stations in the system have low ceilings. But I think it's worth trying on elevated,open-cut and outdoor stations and structures. I could see trying it on lines like the Dyre line that are open cut but on structure I think it would be hard to maintain. Between the union and management they go tit for tat on the safety rules making it impossible to get almost anything done on the Tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted July 2, 2013 Share #38 Posted July 2, 2013 I could see trying it on lines like the Dyre line that are open cut but on structure I think it would be hard to maintain. Between the union and management they go tit for tat on the safety rules making it impossible to get almost anything done on the Tracks. You also have to put into consideration the following factors... 1. You have to figure out the changeover point from 3rd rail to catenary wire.. There also have to be a point where both systems overlap so trains can safely cross over without losing power. 2. If you do it on the Dyre branch, then that means the will more than likely need its own dedicated fleet of cars. As we all know, the and often swap equipment (and in a few cases, have both cars in one consist, I've seen it happen before.) 3. As always, there's always the cost of it all... 4. You have to make sure the car is not too tall for the tunnels. Take Metro North for example. I'm pretty sure the M4/6 and M8 is taller than the M2/7 due to the catenary equipment on the top of the car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted July 2, 2013 Share #39 Posted July 2, 2013 Why is this thread alive... Anyways, the short answer is, overhead wire only makes sense in a place with lots of open space. Overhead wire is a lot more expensive to put in tunnels (which is why it's so much more prevalent in Japan - Japan doesn't really have lots of underground train lines, because most of their lines are at the surface. Not elevated, just at the surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vistausss Posted July 2, 2013 Share #40 Posted July 2, 2013 It doesn't make it safer. Here in The Netherlands, a few times a day someone jumps in front of a railroad train and dies. And we have catenary on the railroads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itmaybeokay Posted July 2, 2013 Share #41 Posted July 2, 2013 where the heck is the dancing lock gif? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreeddekalbL Posted July 2, 2013 Share #42 Posted July 2, 2013 where the heck is the dancing lock gif? :Lock: :Lock: :Lock: :Lock: i got you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yardlet6 Posted July 2, 2013 Share #43 Posted July 2, 2013 No, because the thing about catenary in tunnels is that there's no space to put poles or anything to keep the wires taut, and keeping the wires that close to the train probably makes it more likely that something will happen, especially given subway frequency levels. Not to mention, ceiling height in the system is variable, so you'd need to somehow account for that as well. One of the Spanish metro systems (i forget which one) decided to dispense with the wiring problem by putting third rail in brackets on the top of the tunnel in tunnel sections, but if we're doing that, then we might as well just keep the third rail. The main barrier to converting the MTA to anything like this, however, is cost. Like most things MTA related, this has a $$$ problem, and imagine the amount of service disruption that would be needed to remove the third rails and place a new system in, whether it be inductive coils or catenary. As a response to OP's concerns about people getting killed on the tracks, if the MTA really cared, they could dig Tube-style suicide pits in stations, and I believe the newer stations on 63rd St and Archer Avenue have them. Probably Madrid. I saw a subway special and the Madrid metro had catenary. One other thing. CTA's Skokie Swift runs on catenary in Skokie to Howard,then third rail to the loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Vandelay Posted July 2, 2013 Share #44 Posted July 2, 2013 Skokie swift was converted to third rail in its entirety a few years back. Also, it doesn't go to the loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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