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BrooklynIRT

Are there rules/guidelines for determining which stations should be gap stations?

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it is easy to see why express stations are gap stations, but I wonder how MTA figures out which other stations should be gap stations, like Dyckman St on the IRT (I think holding lights are on the southbound side only) and I think Intervale Ave or Prospect Ave, also on the IRT. are there any stations in the system that used to be gap stations? was a lot of it based on decisions made by MTA to make certain stations gap stations or are a lot of gap stations holdovers from when the system was first built? or both?

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Intervale & Prospect are not gap stations.....gap stations are typically stations at transfer points.

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any station where there are holding lights (the ceiling-mounted yellow lights over the platform edge) or starting lights (the ceiling-mounted green lights over the platform edge).

 

see also the NYCsubway.org definition.

 

Intervale and Prospect are not gap stations? is Jackson or Freeman a gap station? I could have sworn I saw holding lights (they were not on) at one of those four stations when I was there a few weeks ago. I highly doubt it was Jackson though. I may be remembering this wrong.

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The following stations I have noticed a lot of holding for gapping service.

 

Nevins St (2)(3)(4)(5).

Church Ave (2)(5).

Grand central (4)(5)(6).

Chambers St (1)(2)(3).Usually for (1) trains.

Times Sq (1)(2))3 I've noticed it.

Also at Franklin IRT (2)(3)(4)(5) I've noticed it somewhat.

 

Oh big time at Utica for (3).

Edited by Abba

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Almost every station has holding lights. That does NOT make it a gap station!

 

 

Say it again Please!!!!

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In nycsubway.org, I see a definition that seems more obvious than the holding lights.

A station where supervision can hold a train for schedule adjustments or connections, turn trains back to their origin or re-route them to a different end point.

Here, I understand better what is a gap station. 

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now wait a minute.

 

-holding lights are used to tell the crews to leave the doors open in the station and starting lights are used to tell the crews to close the doors start the trip. it seems like a station with working holding lights or starting lights has to be a gap station since supervision can use these lights to tell crews to hold doors open (for schedule adjustment) in these stations or start trips from these stations (turning the trains back to their origins).

 

-snowblock says holding lights in a station do not indicate that the station in question is a gap station. RTOMan agrees.

 

-nycsubway.org says a gap station is a station where supervision can hold a train for schedule adjustments or connections, turn trains back to their origins or re-route them to different end points.

 

I suppose you meant stations where there are holding lights are not gap stations if the holding lights are never used at the stations in question? or is it something else (inobvious)?

Edited by BrooklynIRT

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We've had employees who failed out of schoolcar because they did all of their studying at nycsubway.org instead of from their TA-issued books.....

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hum. another mistake nycsubway.org made. the other one I remember you pointed out was the track map errors (they still did not fix the Jackson Ave area on the IRT; a turnout is still missing).

 

so I was initially asking about gap stations when I should have asked about the stations having holding lights or starting lights. maybe 'gap stations' as well, but the focus probably should have been holding lights or starting lights. oh well.

 

so now I would like to know how the TA books define a 'gap station', please. unless that is classified info.

Edited by BrooklynIRT

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Guest Lance

Just an aside: I once again remind everyone on the forums that some sections of nycsubway.org haven't been updated since the late '90s. That means some erroneous information may not have corrected.

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In nycsubway.org, I see a definition that seems more obvious than the holding lights.

Here, I understand better what is a gap station. 

 

3rd Avenue-138th Street would be a gap station considering the definition... In addition to Hunts Point Av.

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A gap station is a key intermediate station along a train's route where trains are CLOCKED and where trains may be held for connections or time, re-routed or turned.

 

To answer your original question, the "rule" regarding what is and isn't a gap station is that they are usually stations where there is a tower on the premises, or else stations which either have connections with other lines (like 161) or are just before a junction.

 

You know, technically EVERY A-Div station could be considered a gap station under ATS.....however most stations (even the ones with holding lights) aren't treated as such.

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I want to see how many I get right uptown:

 

Dyckman (A)

168th (A)

Bedford Park (D)

Tremont (D)

161/167th (D)

215th (1)

Dyckman (1)

137th (1)

Bedford Park (4)

Burnside (4)

161st (4)

149th (4)

Nereid (2)

Gun Hill (2)

180th (2)(5)

149th (2)(5)

Westchester Sq (6)

Parkchester (6)

Hunts Point (6)

3 Av-138 St (6)

 

Bedford Park 4, 215th, Tremont D, 161/167 D, Westchester Square, and Nereid Avenue were wild guesses on my part btw...

 

How well (or brutal) did I do?

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Just a side question anybody in this thread on the TO or CR list?

 

If you are you better stop paying attention to the on line stuff or like Snowblock said yer gonna fail..

 

Geez i thought i made that clear in the Schoolcar thread...

Edited by RTOMan
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I am not on those lists or applying for those jobs. was just curious about this stuff.

 

it is common sense to follow the TA books and not the online stuff if applying for those jobs or on those lists.

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167 (D) isn't a gap station. The rest of the (A) & (D) stations you listed are. I don't think Westchester Sq is a gap station, but the rest of those A-Div stations are.

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I am not on those lists or applying for those jobs. was just curious about this stuff.

 

it is common sense to follow the TA books and not the online stuff if applying for those jobs or on those lists.

 

That is why i said what i said when i seen posts of folks saying they Might..

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Gap stations on the (D) line: 205, Bedford Park, Tremont, 161, 145, 125, 59, 34, W4, Dekalb, Pacific, 36, 9 Av, 62 St, Bay Parkway, Stillwell

 

 

 

.....if someone asks me to name them for every other line, I'm going to slap you.

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IIRC, Jackson has them, but I haven't been that way in a while so I'm not sure.

 

Jackson southbound makes sense - it's just before the end of the middle track, so a southbound local can be held in the station while an express goes ahead.

 

Almost every station has holding lights. That does NOT make it a gap station!

 

It's certainly not the case that "Almost every station has holding lights"!

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From my experience, pretty much every express station on the (N) is a gap station:

  • (N) gets held at DeKalb Avenue (when it is local).
  • (N) gets held at Atlantic Avenue–Pacific Street (to wait for an (R) ).
  • (N) gets held at 36 Street (to wait for that (R) ).
  • (N) gets held at 59 Street (to wait for that (R) again).

And then there are some local ones:

  • Kings Highway (rarely enough that you could consider it a fairy tale)
  • 86 Street

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It's certainly not the case that "Almost every station has holding lights"!

 

Since Snowblock actually works for the (MTA) and is pretty much always right when it comes to technical info I'm pretty sure he knows what he's saying in this thread.

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From what I understood (this was mentioned in school car in passing, but not something they focused on; it's not something you would get on a T/O or C'r test), it's any place with a major tower, that as Snowblock said, clocks trains.

It's not a terminal station, like 205th or Bedford Pk. That's the distinction in the first place. It's either a terminal, that dispatches the intervals, and the mid-route dispatchers who clock them along the way are the "gap" stations.

 

So on the (E), it would be the express stations from Union Tpk to QP, then (used to be 5th Av. but that was deactivated and given to QBP), 42nd St. and W4. On the (M), it's Essex, W4, 34, QP, Roosevelt, and then Continental is the terminal (so a place line that is a terminal for some lines, and a gap station for others).

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