Random Thoughts Thread - Suffolk County Transit

[Mtatransit]

On 6/1/2021 at 1:40 AM, checkmatechamp13 said:

So after taking a look, I have some more ideas/elaboration on previous ideas (again, using the ridership-based network as a baseline)

S8 between SUNY Farmingdale & Babylon via Farmingdale LIRR, North Amityville, and Herzl Blvd

S51 modified to run a bit deeper into residential Holbrook, and also into residential Patchogue (Also, a second branch would operate via Stony Brook Road), with each branch running hourly

Slight extension of S11 to Union Blvd (For an easier connection to the Bay Shore LIRR station)

S5 becomes an hourly route, with saved resources used to recreate S3 from the coverage-based proposal (Babylon - Walt Whitman route)

S12 rerouted to Bay Shore Road - Commack Road - Nicolls Road

S9 hourly route between Brentwood & Babylon via Manatuck Blvd & Udall Road

S54 has an hourly branch via Old Willets Path

S58 tweaked to serve the DMV

Also, as a general comment, I think the destination signs of the SCT routes should have a "via _____" portion wherever possible.

 

S8 I like the general idea of having some service there but I would keep it on route 109 between Herzel and Babylon. 

To be honest, I think having some sort of rush hour demand response service between Farmingdale LIRR and those office parks along Rt 110 could work. The S1 serves it right now, but Rt 110 is just so pedestrian unfriendly

I would instead route the S4 down Little E Neck Rd and Herzel Blvd like this

I can not figure out where the S5 will go north of the Ronkonkoma Line tracks.

For the area of S3 there could be some sort of demand response covering that area, pulsing to WWM

S12 I like that routing

For S9 I don't think Udall Ave has enough ridership for a bus every hour

S6 (S54) via Old Willet Path and Rt25A, with alternate branch serving Vet-Mem? Agreed. Preferably they maintain a semblance of transfers between S58 and S6 at Old-Willets and Rt 25A. 

I still think people from Smith Haven Mall on the S58 wants to get to points along 25A and not Central Islip. I don't think riders would appreciate that transfer there either

 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2021 by Mtatransit

[checkmatechamp13]

54 minutes ago, Mtatransit said:

S8 I like the general idea of having some service there but I would keep it on route 109 between Herzel and Babylon. 

To be honest, I think having some sort of rush hour demand response service between Farmingdale LIRR and those office parks along Rt 110 could work. The S1 serves it right now, but Rt 110 is just so pedestrian unfriendly

I would instead route the S4 down Little E Neck Rd and Herzel Blvd like this

I can not figure out where the S5 will go north of the Ronkonkoma Line tracks.

For the area of S3 there could be some sort of demand response covering that area, pulsing to WWM

S12 I like that routing

For S9 I don't think Udall Ave has enough ridership for a bus every hour

S6 (S54) via Old Willet Path and Rt25A, with alternate branch serving Vet-Mem? Agreed. Preferably they maintain a semblance of transfers between S58 and S6 at Old-Willets and Rt 25A. 

I still think people from Smith Haven Mall on the S58 wants to get to points along 25A and not Central Islip. I don't think riders would appreciate that transfer there either

Good point on having the Straight Path bus (S4) serve it rather than the NY-109 bus (S8). 

The S5 will basically run straight up Commack Road to the Pilgrim Hospital/SCCC area, and then swing down to Brentwood (via Crooked Hill Road, while the S7 runs down Wicks Road) and terminate at Central Islip.

For the northern portion of Deer Park, I don't think demand is spread out enough to warrant a demand-response route. I get that there's a few other major roads in that area (Straight Path, Old Country Road), but I think a route straight down that portion of Deer Park Avenue is sufficient.

For the S9, there's a pocket of high ridership right around Bay Shore Road & Udall Road on the present-day S27 & 2A (not sure which of the two the riders prefer). I think it would do decently, considering the two endpoints of the route (Brentwood & Babylon)

I would have the S58 run down Maple Avenue (CR-15) and Hauppauge Road (NY-111) and get into Hauppauge that way. So you'd have the connection with both branches of the S6 (as well as the other routes in Hauppauge). I'm not sure of how exactly to handle service within Hauppauge, considering that the North Complex, Dennison Building, and NYS Offices aren't really walkable to each other, so it sounds like some sort of timed transfer would be in order involving the S11 or S17, since they are proposed to terminate in the area (Rather than trying to have the S6 & S58 loop through all of those complexes).

I think the general logic of having the S58 end in Brentwood (or Central Islip in the coverage-based proposal) is to have a bus connection from Riverhead to the three eastern LIRR branches: Montauk (S66), Port Jefferson (S58 at Smithtown), and Ronkonkoma (S58 at Brentwood). Obviously there is a rail connection, but aside from the high fares and ridiculously low frequency, it also involves a transfer, so it's not even a direct ride.

From Smith Haven specifically, you have a point that the S4 connects you directly to Brentwood/Central Islip (even from Coram Plaza, the S52 takes a shorter/more direct route to Central Islip). It almost sounds like some sort of S52/S58 swap would be in order, but then you have the opposite problem (Losing the direct connection from Smith Haven to Riverhead, and also the Riverhead - Hauppauge connection since the S62 is going to Smith Haven at best). 

[Mtatransit]

3 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

For the northern portion of Deer Park, I don't think demand is spread out enough to warrant a demand-response route. I get that there's a few other major roads in that area (Straight Path, Old Country Road), but I think a route straight down that portion of Deer Park Avenue is sufficient.

For the S9, there's a pocket of high ridership right around Bay Shore Road & Udall Road on the present-day S27 & 2A (not sure which of the two the riders prefer). I think it would do decently, considering the two endpoints of the route (Brentwood & Babylon)

I was just thinking about ways to serve these two markets without duplicating others route too much. This is what I got

This route will connect up with the S6 at HSQ and serves northern Deer Park Avenue. Passengers needing Brentwood/Central Islip will transfer at Tangers Outlet, and connect with the S12 at Bayshore/Udall for Bay shore LIRR

I was debating on if this service should serve Deer Park Railroad. It wouldn't be tied to any pulse as this service will be strictly coverage, and this service will require 2 buses. 

3 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

From Smith Haven specifically, you have a point that the S4 connects you directly to Brentwood/Central Islip (even from Coram Plaza, the S52 takes a shorter/more direct route to Central Islip). It almost sounds like some sort of S52/S58 swap would be in order, but then you have the opposite problem (Losing the direct connection from Smith Haven to Riverhead, and also the Riverhead - Hauppauge connection since the S62 is going to Smith Haven at best). 

I guess passengers will have to get used to take the S58 to Smith Haven to the S4 to the S6 (all of which is a timed transfer) to get to points west of Old Willets Path along Rt 25A (assuming your alternate S6 scenario). Passengers east of Old Willets will probably just stay on the S58. 

Depending on implementation, this could be slighly better or worse than the current scenario (s58-->s54) which is not timed

I think they did that to reduce duplication along 25A between the S58 and the S54. 

Suffolk Clipper is not touched for some reason, I guess SCT doesn't fund the route?

Edited June 3, 2021 by Mtatransit

[checkmatechamp13]

21 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

I was just thinking about ways to serve these two markets without duplicating others route too much. This is what I got

This route will connect up with the S6 at HSQ and serves northern Deer Park Avenue. Passengers needing Brentwood/Central Islip will transfer at Tangers Outlet, and connect with the S12 at Bayshore/Udall for Bay shore LIRR

I was debating on if this service should serve Deer Park Railroad. It wouldn't be tied to any pulse as this service will be strictly coverage, and this service will require 2 buses. 

I guess passengers will have to get used to take the S58 to Smith Haven to the S4 to the S6 (all of which is a timed transfer) to get to points west of Old Willets Path along Rt 25A (assuming your alternate S6 scenario). Passengers east of Old Willets will probably just stay on the S58. 

Depending on implementation, this could be slighly better or worse than the current scenario (s58-->s54) which is not timed

I think they did that to reduce duplication along 25A between the S58 and the S54. 

Suffolk Clipper is not touched for some reason, I guess SCT doesn't fund the route?

If such a route were to be created, I wouldn't have it serve Deer Park. The S12 already connects the Baywood area to Wyandanch for those seeking the Main Line specifically, and the S9 connects to Babylon (and a NY-109 route would better serve Babylon - Main Line trips)

The big issue with that route is the amount of dead mileage along the northern end of Deer Park Avenue. I'd still have it swing over to Walt Whitman like the S3 in the coverage-based proposal.

While reducing that bit of duplication along NY-25 (NY-25A is further north, past the LIRR Port Jefferson Branch) might've been a factor that crossed their mind, I think the bigger issue was trying to connect the S58 with Hauppauge and the Brentwood/Central Islip area (like we discussed, swinging through Hauppauge isn't particularly difficult, but it's basically a tradeoff between serving a commercial area on Jericho Turnpike vs. a dense residential area by Brentwood/Central Islip.

And long story short, SCT gets reimbursed for the Clipper, but hopefully they will take a look at it anyway to see if it can be made more useful. (But as of now, the main focus is on the all-day network). 

[checkmatechamp13]

Does anyone happen to have the link to the 2009 Suffolk County bus study? I know there were a few proposals from way back when that were similar to these proposals (I know a 3D extension to Amityville was definitely one of them)

[checkmatechamp13]

Looking at the South Fork Commuter Connection (which I think could be operated a little bit better on the train side...not sure why all those extra trips have to be shuttles rather than extensions of existing Speonk & Patchogue short-turns, but anyway), I'm thinking perhaps all of those shuttles could be consolidated into an on-demand area stretching from Southampton to Montauk (similar to the coverage-based plan, with without taking any service from the western part of the county). In that case, perhaps it would make sense to cut the S92 back to either Southampton or Bridgehampton, and have people transfer to the shuttles for direct service to Sag Harbor, East Hampton, or Montauk). 

[Mtatransit]

SCT really need to redesign its schedule when the redesign is implemented. 

I took two buses and both of them were late. I don't know how the driver does these tight turnarounds day in, day out

S40 the trip into Babylon arrived at 4:28, with a 4:30 departure. The trip out to Patchogue arrived at 5:29! with a departure out of Patchogue at 5:30. 

The S61 arrived in PJ Ferry at 6:28, with a 6:30PM scheduled departure.

On paper most of these routes have a 5-10 minute layover, but the schedule is usually extremely tight. One bad traffic, or one wheelchair passenger can mean the bus will miss all of its connection at Patchogue or Babylon.

Its good to see that SCT has some sort of transfer system at Babylon and Patchogue where most of the buses leave and arrive at close to the same time (although I am sure they will not wait for any late arrivals so not exactly a pulse system)

Edited January 23, 2022 by Mtatransit

[checkmatechamp13]

@Mtatransit Yes, roughly a 15% increase in runtime is planned for most routes in the system. It will be interesting to see how they do it (My guess is they will also add a scheduled hold at some of these mid-route transfer points like Bay Shore and Central Islip).

They used to request connections over the radio and the dispatchers would decide whether to hold them of not. Not sure if they still do that.

[Mtatransit]

On 1/25/2022 at 4:17 AM, checkmatechamp13 said:

@Mtatransit Yes, roughly a 15% increase in runtime is planned for most routes in the system. It will be interesting to see how they do it (My guess is they will also add a scheduled hold at some of these mid-route transfer points like Bay Shore and Central Islip).

They used to request connections over the radio and the dispatchers would decide whether to hold them of not. Not sure if they still do that.

Yeah I rarely see operators radio requests anymore. SCT is starting to have less of a small town bus feel to it especially compared to 10 years ago

The 15% increase, not sure if its already approved? That is assuming the county increases it contribution, which I am not sure they are willing to do. 

 

If not that means there will be a 15% cut in route mileage/service hours to make up this increased runtime

Edited February 6, 2022 by Mtatransit

[checkmatechamp13]

@Mtatransit I saw a couple of videos where SCT officials mentioned increasing the runtime. Now as to whether they will add money to the budget, or simply reduce the service by 15%...your guess is as good as mine, but hopefully they go with the increased funding.

[Joel Powers]

On 2/6/2022 at 7:01 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

@Mtatransit I saw a couple of videos where SCT officials mentioned increasing the runtime. Now as to whether they will add money to the budget, or simply reduce the service by 15%...your guess is as good as mine, but hopefully they go with the increased funding.

No updated developments on the SCT FY22 budget?

[checkmatechamp13]

11 hours ago, Joel Powers said:

No updated developments on the SCT FY22 budget?

The draft plan has been released and the budget will be increased by about 20%. Roughly 15% will be for increased runtime, and 5% for better evening/weekend service.

[Joel Powers]

11 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

The draft plan has been released and the budget will be increased by about 20%. Roughly 15% will be for increased runtime, and 5% for better evening/weekend service.

I suppose weekend service is pretty much an after-thought for SCT.

[checkmatechamp13]

2 hours ago, Joel Powers said:

I suppose weekend service is pretty much an after-thought for SCT.

I mean every route in the draft plan runs until 8pm on Sunday (and until 10pm on Saturday) so I wouldn't quite say it's an afterthought. Obviously it's not as good as the weekday service but it is still an improvement.

[Joel Powers]

46 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I mean every route in the draft plan runs until 8pm on Sunday (and until 10pm on Saturday) so I wouldn't quite say it's an afterthought. Obviously it's not as good as the weekday service but it is still an improvement.

I guess so, I mean afterall, they didn't get Sunday service until about 5-6 years ago.

[N6 Limited]

What ever happened to the Nichols Rd BRT?

[checkmatechamp13]

5 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

What ever happened to the Nichols Rd BRT?

I think I saw something about an environmental issue/concern in the Setauket area. So basically the S51 will be the replacement for now (which if anything, I think there would be more ridership potential with that route, since it connects directly to Smith Haven and Ronkonkoma). 

[N6 Limited]

18 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I think I saw something about an environmental issue/concern in the Setauket area. So basically the S51 will be the replacement for now (which if anything, I think there would be more ridership potential with that route, since it connects directly to Smith Haven and Ronkonkoma). 

Makes sense since Nichols Rd is essentially a highway and the route would miss connections to the LIRR, etc.

[SubBus]

Is there a bus that runs on Route 109?  I noticed a bus stop shelter at Elmwood Rd.....  I checked the SCT map, but I don't see any bus route in the area...

[Lex]

1 hour ago, SubBus said:

Is there a bus that runs on Route 109?  I noticed a bus stop shelter at Elmwood Rd.....  I checked the SCT map, but I don't see any bus route in the area...

There was, but it's been a glorified short-turn of a different route for more than 5 years at this point.

The route that served the alignment was the N72.

 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Lex

[SubBus]

On 9/15/2022 at 5:14 AM, Lex said:

There was, but it's been a glorified short-turn of a different route for more than 5 years at this point.

The route that served the alignment was the N72.

 

Oh ok, thanks for your response...

[Q43LTD]

So SCT routes are now on Google maps 

[B35 via Church]

6 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

So SCT routes are now on Google maps 

Noticed it this morning.... It appears they rearranged where buses stop inside Whitman Mall...

Now that the S1 (or route 1) has less service now, they apparently bumped it back to where the S54 used to pick up (of the SCT area of the terminal, it's the very shelter the furthest away from the n79 & those HART routes).... It used to take up the closest 2 bus shelters; right before you make that left turn for the bus shelters for the HART routes.... I would go take a look for myself, but that's clearly not worth taking the LIRR to Huntington & walking to Whitman Mall from there, to then catch the n79 (even though I still like to fan that route, given that it's been a shell of its former self)....

Also saw one of the pine sniffer's videos, where he took one of the routes to Smith Haven... One of the gripes I've always had with Smith Haven mall with the old system, was that there was no rhyme or reason where buses would pick you up around the terminal area / all the differing bus shelters... I've seen more than my fair share of people miss buses, because they were waiting at the wrong shelter, because they weren't attentive and/or diligent enough.... For the most part, it was proximate to (the pathway to) the entrance of the mall, but you still had to be alert - especially when drivers would pull up with the destination signage off or whatever... In any event, judging by his video, it still looks to be more of the same...

Edited November 17, 2023 by B35 via Church

[Q43LTD]

On 11/16/2023 at 8:04 PM, B35 via Church said:

Noticed it this morning.... It appears they rearranged where buses stop inside Whitman Mall...

Now that the S1 (or route 1) has less service now, they apparently bumped it back to where the S54 used to pick up (of the SCT area of the terminal, it's the very shelter the furthest away from the n79 & those HART routes).... It used to take up the closest 2 bus shelters; right before you make that left turn for the bus shelters for the HART routes.... I would go take a look for myself, but that's clearly not worth taking the LIRR to Huntington & walking to Whitman Mall from there, to then catch the n79 (even though I still like to fan that route, given that it's been a shell of its former self)....

Also saw one of the pine sniffer's videos, where he took one of the routes to Smith Haven... One of the gripes I've always had with Smith Haven mall with the old system, was that there was no rhyme or reason where buses would pick you up around the terminal area / all the differing bus shelters... I've seen more than my fair share of people miss buses, because they were waiting at the wrong shelter, because they weren't attentive and/or diligent enough.... For the most part, it was proximate to (the pathway to) the entrance of the mall, but you still had to be alert - especially when drivers would pull up with the destination signage off or whatever... In any event, judging by his video, it still looks to be more of the same...

I went to Walt Whitman Mall back in 2007 when it was still LIB. Of course the N79 (yes I'm using the capital N for this one) didn't really pick up much. A lot of these NICE routes seem like shells of their former LIB selves. I think I saw Pine Power at Roosevelt Field in 2009 or 10, I just remember it was after the sign changes. My only regret was not fanning SCT. I guess out of fear of being stranded and not being near a LIRR station

Edited November 19, 2023 by Q43LTD