news Officials Call for Better Bus Service to Douglaston, Queens

[bobtehpanda]

LOL... Your community is like Riverdale in that regard... The thing is though more express bus service would be great for the neighborhood.  There is the same feeling here of not wanting subway service, as it would bring down the neighborhood, but that's not the case with the express bus.  At $6.00 a ride, it'll be used by folks in Douglaston and Little Neck and there wouldn't be any worry of riff-raff since it only serves Manhattan and Northeast Queens.  While cheaper than the LIRR at times (not on weekends) it 

 

The problem with Douglaston and Little Neck in particular is that the areas immediately around the LIRR stations are also a PITA to get to from Northern Blvd, whether you're walking, biking, or driving, so the buses generally stay on Northern (the lone exception being the Q79/Q36, where B/Os have a problem turning buses in the narrow streets).

 

In any case, it would only really make sense to extend the subway as far as Bell in Bayside (QCC in the area puts way too much strain on area buses, and Bayside ranks in the LIRR's top ten subway stations)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

More express bus service would be great for the QM3, but I don't know how many LIRR riders would switch over to the bus. I think it's more likely to attract new riders or have those who say, already take a local bus and then the subway, come over to the QM3.

 

I'm thinking maybe some new stops in Manhattan should be added to the QM3 as well. Maybe a lot of people don't work around the bus route.

 

Perhaps... They should do a survey on the QM3 to see where riders go when they get off of it.  The 3 trips in the morning and in the evening are well used, so it's not a question of people not using it.  It's a question of there being so few trips to being with.

 

 

Queens Boulevard is a 12-lane speedway known as "the Boulevard of Death", and is so dangerous that some intersections have concrete barriers in their medians (which doesn't prevent cars from launching upwards over them), but if they don't want to cross the road then they must all be lazy and dumb.

I know about it.  You act like I've never been in Queens before.  I've been along Queens Blvd plenty of times and have crossed it myself. Queens Blvd is one example, but in general people tend to be lazy and dumb when it comes to bus service.  They want door to door service.  

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Lazy? Well, I'm all in for a walk but looking at OpenStreetMap or Google Maps it doesn't seem like a pleaseant walk all the way from the south of Forest Hills to the north...

No it isn't (you're exactly right).

 

I used to live in Forest Hills, and to the subway, it was a good 15 minute walk to 67 Avenue, and to 71st, 20. (the QM4 was out of the question, it would easily be a 25 minute walk with all the damn lights on Queens Blvd).The Q23 was like a 10 minute walk. Now lets say someone's all close

to Metro (where plenty reside) , it would take 15-20 minutes just to get to Queens Blvd, and to find Queens Blvd its a bit more. I as sure wouldn't do that, neither would anyone else. It isn't like a 5 minute walk or a stroll around the park. The fact that' it is also hilly doesn't help.

 

Relating to Douglaston, the Q36 runs every 40 minutes during the off peak hours in that area, and I don't think that many people would opt to wait that long. The terrain there is very hilly, and the QM3 can be a help on that section, as well as relieve overcrowding on the Q12 by encouraging more people to use the QM3 (that take the Q12 after 8 AM).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

No it isn't (you're exactly right).

 

I used to live in Forest Hills, and to the subway, it was a good 15 minute walk to 67 Avenue, and to 71st, 20. (the QM4 was out of the question, it would easily be a 25 minute walk with all the damn lights on Queens Blvd).The Q23 was like a 10 minute walk. Now lets say someone's all close

to Metro (where plenty reside) , it would take 15-20 minutes just to get to Queens Blvd, and to find Queens Blvd its a bit more. I as sure wouldn't do that, neither would anyone else. It isn't like a 5 minute walk or a stroll around the park. The fact that' it is also hilly doesn't help.

 

Relating to Douglaston, the Q36 runs every 40 minutes during the off peak hours in that area, and I don't think that many people would opt to wait that long. The terrain there is very hilly, and the QM3 can be a help on that section, as well as relieve overcrowding on the Q12 by encouraging more people to use the QM3 (that take the Q12 after 8 AM).

I honestly don't see the big deal... My walk to the express bus has always been 10 - 15 minutes, but I do it in about 10 or less because I walk fast, but for the average Joe it would be 15 minutes, and some of that involves hills too.  Then I have a 10 - 15 minute walk from the bus.  It's NYC, people walk around all day. 

[qjtransitmaster]

LOL @VG8 about Forest Hills LIRR. First of all: it's not that well used as you might think. Second of all: how's the service? Not all trains stop at Forest Hills.

they use the subway anyway only people there are those switching between LIRR & QBL local.

 

Well yeah, not exactly shocking... People are lazy and dumb, so if it isn't literally in their face, they won't know about it.  It's the same reaction I get when I tell Riverdale express bus riders about the BxM18.  Most of them have no clue that it makes stops in Midtown along 5th and Madison Avenues and could cut their commutes down by a good 20 minutes.  They would just have to walk maybe a few more blocks than usual. 

No the & are more frequent why wait?

 

I honestly don't see the big deal... My walk to the express bus has always been 10 - 15 minutes, but I do it in about 10 or less because I walk fast, but for the average Joe it would be 15 minutes, and some of that involves hills too.  Then I have a 10 - 15 minute walk from the bus.  It's NYC, people walk around all day. 

why walk 15 minutes to a bus bogged down in traffic when you can walk 5 minutes to LIRR Douglaston is Riverdale's inverse in terms of transportation access. LIRR isn't like metro-north and hard to reach the qm3 however is. Brett & bobtehpanda already explained it to you before I could. 

Queens Boulevard is a 12-lane speedway known as "the Boulevard of Death", and is so dangerous that some intersections have concrete barriers in their medians (which doesn't prevent cars from launching upwards over them), but if they don't want to cross the road then they must all be lazy and dumb.

Have you been to Jersey I can name a few roadways that make queens Blvd look safe for children in comparison. Or a few in LI that are much worse.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

No the & are more frequent why wait?

 

why walk 15 minutes to a bus bogged down in traffic when you can walk 5 minutes to LIRR Douglaston is Riverdale's inverse in terms of transportation access. LIRR isn't like metro-north and hard to reach the qm3 however is. Brett & bobtehpanda already explained it to you before I could. 

-The point is the walk is the same regardless...

 

-If you have to walk 15 minutes, you have to walk 15 minutes regardless of the mode of transportation.  That was the point.

[qjtransitmaster]

Because, the LIRR is intended for people in Nassau and Suffolk (for the most part, or trips that end in Nassau and Suffolk). They don't want people in Long Island (within city limits) taking the train as much, and that's a reason for the sub-par service throughout the entire LIRR System within City Limits (besides Jamaica, the PW Branch stations, Atlantic Terminal, and Woodside). 

 

The QM3 should have a 6:10 AM trip to Manhattan, then a 6:40, 7:10, and 7:40 AM trip (as currently scheduled), then an 8:10, 8:40, and 9:10 AM trip.

 

Going back, the QM3 should run from 4:05 to 6:35 PM , every 30 minutes.

LIRR port Washington peak trains skip queens dude. Those LIRR trains that do stop originate at great neck last I checked the port Washington line's service is anything but subpar in fact it's every 30 minutes on middays weekdays and borderline subway-like at rush hour. Try again this line is an exception to the rule. I am surprised it wasn't turned into a subway line like the rockaway line however if it does no surprise. As it has more in common with subways than the other LIRR Lines. FYI Suffolk trains do not stop in eastern queens. Only the far rockaway, LB, Hempstead & port Washington lines stop in eastern queens. At rush port Washington trains skip eastern queens while short turns serve queens rendering that logic invalid.

[Vistausss]

PW stops in Woodside, which technically is Queens.

 

And yes, every 30 minutes weekdays. It used to be more but the 2010 cuts cut deep inside the LIRR as well, mainly on the PW.

 

 Some Suffolk trains do stop in Eastern Queens, btw (Main Line).

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

LIRR port Washington peak trains skip queens dude. Those LIRR trains that do stop originate at great neck last I checked the port Washington line's service is anything but subpar in fact it's every 30 minutes on middays weekdays and borderline subway-like at rush hour. Try again this line is an exception to the rule. I am surprised it wasn't turned into a subway line like the rockaway line however if it does no surprise. As it has more in common with subways than the other LIRR Lines. FYI Suffolk trains do not stop in eastern queens. Only the far rockaway, LB, Hempstead & port Washington lines stop in eastern queens. At rush port Washington trains skip eastern queens while short turns serve queens rendering that logic invalid.

Didn't I mention that in the same post you quoted me on? Read it again.

Because, the LIRR is intended for people in Nassau and Suffolk (for the most part, or trips that end in Nassau and Suffolk). They don't want people in Long Island (within city limits) taking the train as much, and that's a reason for the sub-par service throughout the entire LIRR System within City Limits (besides Jamaica, the PW Branch stations, Atlantic Terminal, and Woodside).

 

The QM3 should have a 6:10 AM trip to Manhattan, then a 6:40, 7:10, and 7:40 AM trip (as currently scheduled), then an 8:10, 8:40, and 9:10 AM trip.

 

Going back, the QM3 should run from 4:05 to 6:35 PM , every 30 minutes.

[qjtransitmaster]

What are you talking about? Most PW peak trains don't skip Queens. Yes, there are some expresses that go from Penn to Great Neck, but there are several trains that end at Great Neck because they serve mostly Queens. The knows how many people from this area take the LIRR that there is even the express from Penn to Bayside.

I meant trains that serve port Washington by queens you referring to Woodside? bayside express doesn't surprise me.

Didn't I mention that in the same post you quoted me on? Read it again.

Sorry those areas are redundant SE queens is served by non Babylon trains and Hempstead line.

[bobtehpanda]

And once again, a fairly ordinary thread was derailed.

 

People who argue that Southeast Queens residents should abandon the express buses are obviously forgetting that a LIRR trip is in the neighborhood of $9-10 from Zone 3, and that Southeast Queens is generally lower-income than the rest of Eastern Queens, especially the wealthy areas by the Port Washington line.

[qjtransitmaster]

And once again, a fairly ordinary thread was derailed.

 

People who argue that Southeast Queens residents should abandon the express buses are obviously forgetting that a LIRR trip is in the neighborhood of $9-10 from Zone 3, and that Southeast Queens is generally lower-income than the rest of Eastern Queens, especially the wealthy areas by the Port Washington line.

Good points

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Sorry those areas are redundant SE queens is served by non Babylon trains and Hempstead line.

Was just trying to prove a point on the LIRR, nothing more (and SE Queens has horrible LIRR Service).

 

Another question, how many people ride the Q36 to/from the LIRR Station (in Douglaston) during the peak periods? 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

What are you talking about? Most PW peak trains don't skip Queens. Yes, there are some expresses that go from Penn to Great Neck, but there are several trains that end at Great Neck because they serve mostly Queens. The knows how many people from this area take the LIRR that there is even the express from Penn to Bayside.

Yeah, there's the expressBayside then local to Great Neck variation, the express to Great Neck then to Port Washington, and the late PM Port Washington expresses that stop at Bayside, then Great Neck, then local. I have to say, it's pretty well planned, and with an entirely local train, takes no more than 50 minutes (which is a good deal for whatever the price is). I'm pretty sure this line is profitable (is it?).

[qjtransitmaster]

Was just trying to prove a point on the LIRR, nothing more (and SE Queens has horrible LIRR Service).

 

Another question, how many people ride the Q36 to/from the LIRR Station (in Douglaston) during the peak periods? 

I assume not many. Due to frequency. However I don't think any LIRR line or commuter rail in the US is profitable. Try using PW trains between flushing and great neck you will get many free rides before you pay.

[bobtehpanda]

Was just trying to prove a point on the LIRR, nothing more (and SE Queens has horrible LIRR Service).

 

Another question, how many people ride the Q36 to/from the LIRR Station (in Douglaston) during the peak periods? 

 

That LIRR Station is in Little Neck, not Douglaston, and the answer is "about the same as the amount of people taking the former Q79" (which is to say not much)

[aemoreira81]

What took the local elected officials so long? That area (Douglaston and Deepdale) have really been lacking in bus service. The major problem, of course, is where to terminate a route. To me, what could be done is to add 2 additional trips on the QM3 each way, and the Q12 could have select trips extended to LIJ via Little Neck Parkway, Glen Oaks, and Union Turnpike (weekdays with limited Saturday service). I don't see much demand for 7-day-a-week transit service into Douglaston, but weekday and Saturday service could work, as the Q36 is really a roundabout route to Flushing and the 7 train is faster.

 

For the Q12, I would propose weekday service from 5:30 AM to 8:30 PM and Saturday service from 8:30 AM to 6:30 PM. Weekdays, peak direction trips (to Flushing AM, from Flushing PM) would be Limited-stop trips to provide faster service, making the following stops:

 

All stops from LIJ to Northern and Little Neck, then:

1. Marathon Parkway

2. Douglaston Parkway

3. Springfield Boulevard/219 Street

4. Bell Boulevard

5. Francis Lewis Boulevard

6. Utopia Parkway

7. 162 Street

8. Murray Street

9. 149 Street

10. Flushing-Main Street

[Vistausss]

That LIRR Station is in Little Neck, not Douglaston, and the answer is "about the same as the amount of people taking the former Q79" (which is to say not much)

 

A little over 3000 passengers a day.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

Do these folks promise to actually use the additional service that they're demanding, or do they merely want it there "just in case" they might feel like going somewhere at some hypothetical future time?

[qjtransitmaster]

Do these folks promise to actually use the additional service that they're demanding, or do they merely want it there "just in case" they might feel like going somewhere at some hypothetical future time?

LOL

[B35 via Church]

What took the local elected officials so long? That area (Douglaston and Deepdale) have really been lacking in bus service. The major problem, of course, is where to terminate a route. To me, what could be done is to add 2 additional trips on the QM3 each way, and the Q12 could have select trips extended to LIJ via Little Neck Parkway, Glen Oaks, and Union Turnpike (weekdays with limited Saturday service). I don't see much demand for 7-day-a-week transit service into Douglaston, but weekday and Saturday service could work, as the Q36 is really a roundabout route to Flushing and the 7 train is faster.

 

For the Q12, I would propose weekday service from 5:30 AM to 8:30 PM and Saturday service from 8:30 AM to 6:30 PM. Weekdays, peak direction trips (to Flushing AM, from Flushing PM) would be Limited-stop trips to provide faster service, making the following stops:

 

All stops from LIJ to Northern and Little Neck, then:

1. Marathon Parkway

2. Douglaston Parkway

3. Springfield Boulevard/219 Street

4. Bell Boulevard

5. Francis Lewis Boulevard

6. Utopia Parkway

7. 162 Street

8. Murray Street

9. 149 Street

10. Flushing-Main Street

You're using this better bus service to Douglaston thread to push your Q12 to LIJ idea..... One has nothing to do with the other...

The problem is not ridership on the route..... Even if it was, you'd garner way more riders w/ that notorious/never-ending Q12 to Great Neck idea over what you continue to suggest for the 12.....

 

Those folks out there in that part of Queens want better service on the current Q12, which quite frankly I can agree with.... I don't know what it is w/ the Q12 when it gets to Glenwood st, but it tends to either come in bunches, or few & far between - and it takes forever & a minute for a bus to actually depart from that end of the route (which is why you'll have as many folks boarding at the first 2 WB stops {Westmoreland/1st pickup stop & LNP}).... Q12's do not leave uniformly from out there at all; it's almost like it's done on purpose.... Sending buses all the way out to LIJ does not solve that.....

 

Q36 is a roundabout route to Flushing? Q36 doesn't go to Flushing.... Don't know what you're talking about with that....

Unless you're implicating that there's actually riders that are taking the Q36 to Northern for the Q12 to get to Flushing??? Lmao.....

 

I also don't understand what's making you think those that commute (or otherwise head out) to LIJ, would even want to get to the , over what the lot of them have to do w/ the Q46 (and riding that route from end to end to get to QB for the subway there).....

 

Skipping stops/making what would be LTD stops for the Q12?

Hell, you could have Q12's going straight from flushing to LIJ & I bet you'd still have buses carrying air....

 

Scrap this Q12 to LIJ idea... Go back to the drawing board... It holds no water.

[bobtehpanda]

What took the local elected officials so long? That area (Douglaston and Deepdale) have really been lacking in bus service. The major problem, of course, is where to terminate a route. To me, what could be done is to add 2 additional trips on the QM3 each way, and the Q12 could have select trips extended to LIJ via Little Neck Parkway, Glen Oaks, and Union Turnpike (weekdays with limited Saturday service). I don't see much demand for 7-day-a-week transit service into Douglaston, but weekday and Saturday service could work, as the Q36 is really a roundabout route to Flushing and the 7 train is faster.

 

For the Q12, I would propose weekday service from 5:30 AM to 8:30 PM and Saturday service from 8:30 AM to 6:30 PM. Weekdays, peak direction trips (to Flushing AM, from Flushing PM) would be Limited-stop trips to provide faster service, making the following stops:

 

All stops from LIJ to Northern and Little Neck, then:

1. Marathon Parkway

2. Douglaston Parkway

3. Springfield Boulevard/219 Street

4. Bell Boulevard

5. Francis Lewis Boulevard

6. Utopia Parkway

7. 162 Street

8. Murray Street

9. 149 Street

10. Flushing-Main Street

The problem with the current Q12 is not that it's slow (and in fact, I would say that it's rather quick), but that the Q12's headways are, for whatever reason, poorly maintained (and it certainly isn't traffic). There is no need for Q12 service to LIJ.

[qjtransitmaster]

What took the local elected officials so long? That area (Douglaston and Deepdale) have really been lacking in bus service. The major problem, of course, is where to terminate a route. To me, what could be done is to add 2 additional trips on the QM3 each way, and the Q12 could have select trips extended to LIJ via Little Neck Parkway, Glen Oaks, and Union Turnpike (weekdays with limited Saturday service). I don't see much demand for 7-day-a-week transit service into Douglaston, but weekday and Saturday service could work, as the Q36 is really a roundabout route to Flushing and the 7 train is faster.

 

For the Q12, I would propose weekday service from 5:30 AM to 8:30 PM and Saturday service from 8:30 AM to 6:30 PM. Weekdays, peak direction trips (to Flushing AM, from Flushing PM) would be Limited-stop trips to provide faster service, making the following stops:

 

All stops from LIJ to Northern and Little Neck, then:

1. Marathon Parkway

2. Douglaston Parkway

3. Springfield Boulevard/219 Street

4. Bell Boulevard

5. Francis Lewis Boulevard

6. Utopia Parkway

7. 162 Street

8. Murray Street

9. 149 Street

10. Flushing-Main Street

People will simply just use N20/21 to middle neck rd for N25 if they must go there.

[aemoreira81]

You're using this better bus service to Douglaston thread to push your Q12 to LIJ idea..... One has nothing to do with the other...

The problem is not ridership on the route..... Even if it was, you'd garner way more riders w/ that notorious/never-ending Q12 to Great Neck idea over what you continue to suggest for the 12.....

 

Those folks out there in that part of Queens want better service on the current Q12, which quite frankly I can agree with.... I don't know what it is w/ the Q12 when it gets to Glenwood st, but it tends to either come in bunches, or few & far between - and it takes forever & a minute for a bus to actually depart from that end of the route (which is why you'll have as many folks boarding at the first 2 WB stops {Westmoreland/1st pickup stop & LNP}).... Q12's do not leave uniformly from out there at all; it's almost like it's done on purpose.... Sending buses all the way out to LIJ does not solve that.....

 

Q36 is a roundabout route to Flushing? Q36 doesn't go to Flushing.... Don't know what you're talking about with that....

Unless you're implicating that there's actually riders that are taking the Q36 to Northern for the Q12 to get to Flushing??? Lmao.....

 

I also don't understand what's making you think those that commute (or otherwise head out) to LIJ, would even want to get to the , over what the lot of them have to do w/ the Q46 (and riding that route from end to end to get to QB for the subway there).....

 

Skipping stops/making what would be LTD stops for the Q12?

Hell, you could have Q12's going straight from flushing to LIJ & I bet you'd still have buses carrying air....

 

Scrap this Q12 to LIJ idea... Go back to the drawing board... It holds no water.

 

 

The Q12 to LIJ is because any turnaround or layover would be on residential streets if done in Deepdale. The idea that I had thought about was having 61 Avenue as the last stop on the Q12 for Deepdale trips and having the turnaround be: layover near side at 255 Street (there is a field here), right onto 255, left onto 61, and back to Flushing. As for trips ending in Little Neck, I would discontinue service to Glenwood Street and instead reroute these trips to the railroad station, where the relay is easier. (NICE would be authorized to pick up customers at Glenwood Street.) The Deepdale trips would have the number Q14 applied to them.

 

Separately, I would tweak the Q30 to have select trips serve Deepdale along 61 Avenue during the times that QCC service runs (but not on the same trips). Weekday service would operate as follows when trips are every 10 minutes:

 

Q30A: Jamaica - Little Neck Parkway via HHE

Q30B: Jamaica - QCC via LIR

Q30C: Jamaica - Little Neck Parkway via HHE and 61 Avenue.

 

The layover point would be moved to Little Neck Parkway on the near side of Nassau Boulevard.

[B35 via Church]

The problem with the current Q12 is not that it's slow (and in fact, I would say that it's rather quick), but that the Q12's headways are, for whatever reason, poorly maintained (and it certainly isn't traffic). There is no need for Q12 service to LIJ.

Yeah, due to the Q13's assistance along northern (and the reason that route is so slow)....

 

People will simply just use N20/21 to middle neck rd for N25 if they must go there.

+1....

 

This is actually the case, and should continue to be the case....

 

For the Q12 to run to LIJ (even if you have it skipping stops), there needs to be considerable demand for it - Which is simply not the case..... The demand is for an extension to Great Neck (which I simply don't see the MTA doing, nor should they)......

 

The Q12 to LIJ is because any turnaround or layover would be on residential streets if done in Deepdale. The idea that I had thought about was having 61 Avenue as the last stop on the Q12 for Deepdale trips and having the turnaround be: layover near side at 255 Street (there is a field here), right onto 255, left onto 61, and back to Flushing. As for trips ending in Little Neck, I would discontinue service to Glenwood Street and instead reroute these trips to the railroad station, where the relay is easier. (NICE would be authorized to pick up customers at Glenwood Street.) The Deepdale trips would have the number Q14 applied to them.

- I get your reasoning... Still though, the lack of a feasible turnaround & layover in Deepdale isn't a reason to send Q12's all the way to LIJ..... You are marring northern blvd service to fill a service gap in an area where you're unlikely to garner much of anyone..... I'm not so sure if you realize just how far LIJ is from Northern blvd..... The riders are on Northern blvd (Sanford also, but that's the western portion of the route); which is why you may as well keep the Q12 over there ending at Glenwood/beginning over by Westmoreland..... Those folks out there don't need to be cramming onto WB n20/21's (or having to walk over to LNP/northern for the 12's you'd have going to the RR station) b/c you want to make the Q12 grossly inefficient for reason(s) you've stated.....

 

If LIJ was located where Little Neck Plaza is, I would agree with you.... but with LIJ being east of Glen Oaks (which is no where near Little Neck/Douglaston btw), it's just too much..... Especially for the amount of pax the Q12 has to take on, on sanford & on northern (even w/ the help of the Q13 on a portion of the Northern blvd part of the route).....

 

You still haven't commented on the relevance of any of this, as it pertains to what the Little Neck/Douglaston folks are making a case for.....