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Lance

Rollsign Gallery

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This will be my thread to post recreations of various sign curtains seen on the trains over the years. For now, I'm going to stick to post-Chrystie Street signs on the B-Division. With that out of the way, here's the first of what should be many sign rolls. I picked this one to start with since we've had a few conversations about this particular roll here on the forums.

 

14703973728_062dfa3eb5_o.png

Dated:1984/10/01

Created by: Trainsign

Used On: R27, R30, R32, R38

Notes: last of the R16-38 signs to include "Avenue of the Americas" on the rolls, last signs in this format of "local/express" designation, last signs used prior to GOH of R32s and R38s

 

P.S. Yes, I watermarked the curtain. All of the ones I post here will be watermarked as well. I spend a lot of time making these and I don't want them being claimed by someone else as their own.

Edited by Lance
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Well, you can't have a gallery with one piece, so here are a couple more sign curtains. While it was not in my original plans to post these ones yet, recent circumstances, which should be obvious given the particular curtains in question, pushed these ones to the front of the line.

 

14220870128_bdf5dea23c_o.png

Dated:1986

Used On: R68

Notes: one of the last roll intended for 75-foot cars to include destinations not accessible by said cars; absolute last roll to include "Avenue of the Americas" for 6th Avenue

 

14406166922_4d7c867f65_o.png

Dated:1986

Used On: R68

Notes: one of the last roll intended for 75-foot cars to include destinations not accessible by said cars; absolute last roll to include "Avenue of the Americas" for 6th Avenue

 

Proof of signs' existence:

http://s52.photobucket.com/user/NeilFeldman/media/Old%20School%20Subway%20Photos/R68_2XXX_2000_Rollsign_Original.jpg.html

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?7484

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?7484

 

These rolls can be found on certain R68s, but have been replaced on most cars with new curtains in 2001.

 

Stand by for more, coming soon.

Edited by Lance
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Well, you can't have a gallery with one piece, so here are a couple more sign curtains. While it was not in my original plans to post these ones yet, recent circumstances, which should be obvious given the particular curtains in question, pushed these ones to the front of the line.

 

<signs removed>

 

Proof of signs' existence:

http://s52.photobucket.com/user/NeilFeldman/media/Old%20School%20Subway%20Photos/R68_2XXX_2000_Rollsign_Original.jpg.html

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?7484

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?7484

 

These rolls can be found on certain R68s, but have been replaced on most cars with new curtains in 2001.

 

Stand by for more, coming soon.

thanks for posting!

Edited by Lance
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Interesting how that R16-38 sign had a (V) on it, yet no (W) or any other unused letter in a colored circle. Since the rollsign's date is October 1, 1984, I'm guessing the decision to go to all single letter routes on the B Division had already been made and the new letters already chosen. Obviously (K) replaced (AA), < Q > replaced < QB > and the remaining double letter trains became single letter versions of themselves. But that (V) Avenue of the Americas Local sign remains a bit of a mystery. Prior to the 1986-88 shutdown of the Manhattan Bridge north side tracks, there were two (B) services. One ran rush hours only from Coney Island to 168th St-Broadway as a 6th Ave express. The other ran from Coney Island to 57th St-6th Ave seven days a week via 6th Ave local, except rush hours when it also ran express and late nights when it ran as a shuttle from CI to 36th St-4th Ave. In mid-1985, they began using the new single letters, but the 168th St and 57th St services were both still designated as (B) trains and remained that way until April 1986, when the B was cut back to 34th St and it only ran during rush hours. The 6th Ave service that ran from 57th & 6th to Grand St while the north side tracks were shut down was never called the V. It was called the :75px-NYCS-bull-trans-S6_svg:. Who knows what they had in mind for that V sign back in October 1984?

Edited by T to Dyre Avenue

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I think at that point, their idea was that the 63rd Street line would be opened sometime soon* and that the line would need some kind of service. Perhaps they wanted to end the confusion about whether the train was headed towards Washington Heights or Long Island City by naming the new one the V. Of course, we'll never know since the Manhattan Bridge closure had the Q running to 21 St-Queensbridge (along with the B, F and a shuttle depending on the day and time (could that service get any more confusing?))

 

*soon turned out to be another five years

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14867607510_13669a71c1_o.png

Date: 1969.04.10

Intended for Use in: R10

Notes: designed and printed, but never used

 

It's of note that, as mentioned above, this particular curtain, along with the two corresponding destination curtains printed around the same time, were never actually used in the R10s. Those trains would continue to carry the pre-Chrystie signs until the mid-1980s when they were finally replaced.

Edited by Lance
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<sign removed>

 

It's of note that, as mentioned above, this particular curtain, along with the two corresponding destination curtains printed around the same time, were never actually used in the R10s. Those trains would continue to carry the pre-Chrystie signs until the mid-1980s when they were finally replaced.

 

On the subject of this reproduction and all future ones pertaining to the R10s, there is a reason why the readings are arranged as they appear. The sign boxes on these trains were so small that having the readings in the usual 

 

interior

exterior

 

format would result in offset readings being displayed. At least, that's what my research has led me to believe. This format would continue until 1985 for the route signs and 1988 for the other ones.

Thanks for posting!

Edited by Lance
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I now present to you a few of my favorite rollsigns. These are from a car class I haven't posted any signs from until today.

 

14318833489_76860e7b74_b.jpg

Dated: circa 1971

Used in: R44 cars 100-259

 

14525545433_a034f9393c_b.jpg

Dated: circa 1971

Used in: R44 cars 260-399

 

14505436375_762841085f_b.jpg

Dated: circa 1972

Used in: R44 cars 100-259

Upon delivery of the R44 order of cars, they were to be assigned to both the Queens Blvd lines and the IND North (anything that ran on Central Park West), hence the service order on each curtain. The A route is included on both versions as it was anticipated that some E trains returning from their trips to the Rockaways would operate back to Manhattan as A trains and vice-versa.

In 1972, when the cars were still being delivered, the HH designation for the Rockaway Park shuttle was discontinued and all trips to the Rockaways operated under the A and E routes.

As always, stay tuned for more.

Edited by Lance
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Thanks Lance! I have been wanting to see those.

Also, by any chance do you know what the roll is for R110Bs?

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Modified "ACHE"* pattern:

(A) (normal + options for Far Rockaway & Lefferts Blvd)

(C) (normal + options for Far Rockaway & Lefferts Blvd)

(H) (normal + options for Rockaway Park, Far Rockaway & Lefferts Blvd)

(E)(F)(G)(R)<W>(N)(Q)(B)(D)(orangeQ)

6th Avenue (A)

(V)(brownM)(J)(Z)(L)(K)**(S)

Not in Service

*ACHE is the name I gave to the order the routes are set in for all rollsigns from 1987-2001, since they all start with (A)(C)(H)(E). Technically, they all start with the JFK Express, but whatever.

**Canarsie color

Edited by Lance
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Well, it's a new week, so that means I have another rollsign recreation. Once again, we're staying up front for this one.

 

14543079721_fd9de1aee6_o.png

Dated: circa 1980

Used on/Intended for: R10-R38

This design marked the return of route signs actually being in the route sign window on the bulkheads of the R10s through the R38s. Starting in the late 1960s, the route window was unused and wider route sign curtains were installed in the former destination sign window. This roll in particular may not have had much exposure since the subway had already changed route colors by this point.

 

Some of you may be questioning why this is dated 1980 when the trunk line colors were introduced in '79. The MTA has done this may times when it comes to these sign curtains. Look at the route signs currently on the R32s. The diamond Brown R is on all of these signs, which are dated 1988. However, the Nassau Street specials were discontinued in late '87. So, I'm sticking with the date, at least until proven otherwise.

Edited by Lance
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Modified "ACHE"* pattern:

(A) (normal + options for Far Rockaway & Lefferts Blvd)

(C) (normal + options for Far Rockaway & Lefferts Blvd)

(H) (normal + options for Rockaway Park, Far Rockaway & Lefferts Blvd)

(E)

(F)

(G)

(R)

<W>

(N)

(Q)

(B)

(D)

6th Avenue (Q)

6th Avenue (A)

(V)

Nassau Street (M)

(J)

(Z)

(L)

Canarsie (K)

(S)

Not in Service

 

*ACHE is the name I gave to the order the routes are set in for all rollsigns from 1987-2001, since they all start with (A)(C)(H)(E). Technically, they all start with the JFK Express, but whatever.

Thanks and there is a good pic with the A lefferts roll

newyork3.jpg

r110b2.jpg

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Some of you may be questioning why this is dated 1980 when the trunk line colors were introduced in '79. The MTA has done this may times when it comes to these sign curtains. Look at the route signs currently on the R32s. The diamond Brown R is on all of these signs, which are dated 1988. However, the Nassau Street specials were discontinued in late '87. So, I'm sticking with the date, at least until proven otherwise.

 

When the R46s ran on the CC back in the old days, how come it used the blue diamond instead of its green and circle? And what else was on that rollsign with the Blue diamond CC?

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By the time the 46s started running on the CC, 1980 if I'm not mistaken, the trunk color scheme had already been adopted.

 

I'll get back to you with the order on the signs later today.

Edited by Lance

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After doing some research on this, I've realized there were no real rollsigns that contained the CC-diamond. A bit of history needs to be explained here for this one. By 1980, the Rockwell truck fiasco on the R46s was well underway. The R46s were out of service more than they were in service. To maintain some semblance of normal service, at least during the rush hours, any R46s deemed fit for service were run on part time lines only, like the CC. Since the R46s were intended to be based out of Jamaica Yard, they only contained signs for routes running along Queens Blvd. While some of the side curtains were modified to include normal routes of the A, D and CC-diamond, the front signs were simply a cutout of route needed placed in the rollsign window. Here are a couple of examples of what I'm talking about, all courtesy of nycsubway.org:

 

img_70668.jpg

Jay St-Borough Hall (IND Fulton Street)

Taken: 1980.08.15

By: Doug Grotjahn

Part of the Collection of: Joe Testagrose

 

img_5798.jpg

Bedford Park Blvd (IND Concourse)

Taken: 1980.11.04

By: Doug Grotjahn

Part of the Collection of: Joe Testagrose

 

img_24033.jpg

Beach 90 St-Holland (IND Rockaway)

Taken: 1980.09.04

By: Doug Grotjahn

Part of the Collection of: Joe Testagrose

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After doing some research on this, I've realized there were no real rollsigns that contained the CC-diamond. A bit of history needs to be explained here for this one. By 1980, the Rockwell truck fiasco on the R46s was well underway. The R46s were out of service more than they were in service. To maintain some semblance of normal service, at least during the rush hours, any R46s deemed fit for service were run on part time lines only, like the CC. Since the R46s were intended to be based out of Jamaica Yard, they only contained signs for routes running along Queens Blvd. While some of the side curtains were modified to include normal routes of the A, D and CC-diamond, the front signs were simply a cutout of route needed placed in the rollsign window. Here are a couple of examples of what I'm talking about, all courtesy of nycsubway.org:

 

<signs removed>

 

 

 

Oh ok

Edited by Lance

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After doing some research on this, I've realized there were no real rollsigns that contained the CC-diamond. A bit of history needs to be explained here for this one. By 1980, the Rockwell truck fiasco on the R46s was well underway. The R46s were out of service more than they were in service. To maintain some semblance of normal service, at least during the rush hours, any R46s deemed fit for service were run on part time lines only, like the CC. Since the R46s were intended to be based out of Jamaica Yard, they only contained signs for routes running along Queens Blvd. While some of the side curtains were modified to include normal routes of the A, D and CC-diamond, the front signs were simply a cutout of route needed placed in the rollsign window. Here are a couple of examples of what I'm talking about, all courtesy of nycsubway.org:

 

<signs removed>

WOW! Great research!

Also I have some stuff from the Transit museum archives

1995818-2.JPG\

 

 

 

 

 

19931911-2.JPG

 

 
19931911-3.JPG
1995831.JPG
 
 

 

 

1997561.JPG

 

Courtesy NYC Transit Museum
Edited by Lance

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Thanks for all of that UT. It's interesting to say the least. I just found out new route bullets were printed for the IRT cars after the '67 color explosion. Seeing so many photos of the older trains in the '70s with their original numbered route signs led me to believe the MTA simply decided not to buy new signs like they did for the B-Division.

 

On a side note, you know you don't have to quote all of the page text here, right? If you want to, it's your call, but it's really unnecessary.

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This week, we're shifting back over to the sides for this sign curtain.

 

14619394073_48b00090ba_o.png

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5575/14619394073_48b00090ba_o.png

Dated: 1988.04.21

Printed by: Multilite

Used on/Intended for: R46s

This was the last sign curtain printed for the R46s prior to their overhauls, beginning in 1990. These signs were also the first curtain printed for the R46s following the N/R line shift between Astoria and Queens Blvd, which occurred in May of 1987.

Edited by Lance
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