Orion VII 4 Life Posted February 16, 2015 Share #26 Posted February 16, 2015 Are you saying that bus operators shouldn't be held accountable? If that's the case, that's preposterous. Accident or not, that operator ran over a pedestrian who had the right to cross the street.I'm saying wait and see. Everyone's being so quick to blame the op Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted February 16, 2015 Share #27 Posted February 16, 2015 I'm saying wait and see. Everyone's being so quick to blame the op Yeah, cause he ran over a person in the crosswalk who had right of way and a green light. But yeah, no blame yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 16, 2015 Share #28 Posted February 16, 2015 I'm saying wait and see. Everyone's being so quick to blame the op I don't know what we're waiting to see... Seems like a cut and dry case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azA Posted February 16, 2015 Share #29 Posted February 16, 2015 drove brooklyn bus routes for 32 years. people have always played chicken with buses. also,todays bus models have a severe blind spot in the left corner,especialy on the orion. that said,bus operators today need to use extra caution when executing turns,especialy in light of the fact that they are being arrested ( insane ). makes me so thankful that i hit 55 this year and was able to retire! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulrivera Posted February 17, 2015 Share #30 Posted February 17, 2015 I've been seeing more and more drivers out there getting more and more brazen. They shove their way toward pedestrians crossing the street legally. They run red lights when they don't feel like waiting. And of course we've all read the endless hues and cries by motorists who are caught on camera exceeding the speed limit by more than 10 mph. That's not a new thing here in NYC... Motorists who break the law risk the lives of every pedestrian they cut off. It isn't always feasible, but I prefer to cross the street when I see an opening in traffic - regardless of the color of the light - than to wait for the light and pray that the motorists who are obligated to stop to let me cross in fact stop to let me cross. I do that too actually if I know I can make it across the street (I also look both ways and jog across to get off the street quickly if it's a major roadway) I suspect it's largely a question of attitude. A motor vehicle - especially a large one, like a bus - has the capacity to kill or injure. If your attitude as a driver is that this capacity brings with it a heavy responsibility to do whatever is necessary to avoid killing or injuring others, you'll probably be OK. If your attitude as a driver is that this capacity brings with it license to terrorize pedestrians, you may end up killing or injuring a pedestrian on occasion. I don't know what attitude de Jesus had. If he generally had a safe attitude, then I'm sorry he had a lapse on February 13 (not that my sorrow relieves him of the obligation to suffer the consequences of his unfortunate actions). If he generally tried to shove pedestrians out of the way with his bus, then I'm afraid I feel no sympathy whatsoever. Good points, but it doesn't matter if you are a safe driver with a million miles incident free for incidents like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6 Limited Posted February 17, 2015 Share #31 Posted February 17, 2015 It's clear that many of you have never driven a vehicle. Pedestrians do some CLUELESS things when it comes to crossing streets. They run without looking, stand in the street when vehicles are turning, and don't pay attention half the time. When I cross I look BOTH ways even on one way streets, I judge vehicle speed, acceleration & deceleration before AND during crossing. I keep my eye on all vehicles that have the potential to run me over. Most pedestrians are in their own world. One of the main issues I see when it comes to traffic signals in NYC is that the pedestrians get the walk signal as the light turns green. There is major conflict because there is no turn on red and vehicles can't turn because there are *always* pedestrians in the way. There have been a few intersections where I've seen the Walk signal several seconds before the green, and that's helpful. Perhaps they should remove crosswalks on the sides of streets that vehicles would be turning from? (Or special cross cycles) One example, I was driving west on E.60th street from the Queensboro Br and there was a street street fair west of Lexington Ave. ALL vehicles had to make a left onto Lexington, but every time the light changed there were a bunch of pedestrians in the south crosswalk for virtually the entire green cycle. Gridlock. Once I finally got to Lex and was able to turn (Many light cycles later) there was a traffic cop car on the right with two officers inside having a good ole time smiling and laughing. All they had to do during the red cycle was make all pedestrians cross to the north side of 60th street. That way when the light turned green for 60th st. all vehicles could make a left turn without interference and all pedestrians could cross without interference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Express Bus Operator Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share #32 Posted February 17, 2015 It's clear that many of you have never driven a vehicle. Pedestrians do some CLUELESS things when it comes to crossing streets. They run without looking, stand in the street when vehicles are turning, and don't pay attention half the time. When I cross I look BOTH ways even on one way streets, I judge vehicle speed, acceleration & deceleration before AND during crossing. I keep my eye on all vehicles that have the potential to run me over. Most pedestrians are in their own world. One of the main issues I see when it comes to traffic signals in NYC is that the pedestrians get the walk signal as the light turns green. There is major conflict because there is no turn on red and vehicles can't turn because there are *always* pedestrians in the way. There have been a few intersections where I've seen the Walk signal several seconds before the green, and that's helpful. Perhaps they should remove crosswalks on the sides of streets that vehicles would be turning from? (Or special cross cycles) One example, I was driving west on E.60th street from the Queensboro Br and there was a street street fair west of Lexington Ave. ALL vehicles had to make a left onto Lexington, but every time the light changed there were a bunch of pedestrians in the south crosswalk for virtually the entire green cycle. Gridlock. Once I finally got to Lex and was able to turn (Many light cycles later) there was a traffic cop car on the right with two officers inside having a good ole time smiling and laughing. All they had to do during the red cycle was make all pedestrians cross to the north side of 60th street. That way when the light turned green for 60th st. all vehicles could make a left turn without interference and all pedestrians could cross without interference. AMEN! Thats exactly what it is out there. Only drivers who drives everyday understands whats going on out there on the road. Next week on my day off I will take my time and will video tape dangerous busy traffic areas and illegal crossing when vehicles are approaching. What people need to do is before crossing always LOOK and make sure the driver sees you just in case. I will record all the wrongs and whats preventable. Law enforcement also needs to follow the rules too when it comes to driving on tge road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulrivera Posted February 17, 2015 Share #33 Posted February 17, 2015 Now there's rumblings that politicians are open to amending the law to exempt bus operators. Should be interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46Dover Posted February 17, 2015 Share #34 Posted February 17, 2015 Now there's rumblings that politicians are open to amending the law to exempt bus operators. Should be interesting... Probably because they've gotten several nasty grams from Bus Operators all over the Tri State area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6 Limited Posted February 17, 2015 Share #35 Posted February 17, 2015 AMEN! Thats exactly what it is out there. Only drivers who drives everyday understands whats going on out there on the road. Next week on my day off I will take my time and will video tape dangerous busy traffic areas and illegal crossing when vehicles are approaching. What people need to do is before crossing always LOOK and make sure the driver sees you just in case. I will record all the wrongs and whats preventable. Law enforcement also needs to follow the rules too when it comes to driving on tge road. Please do, there are many times where I wish I had a dash cam so I can post all the craziness from pedestrians and cyclists. Last week I was east driving on Grand Street and the light was green at Bowery but I was only half way up the block, there were a couple of cars ahead of me. Next thing you know this cyclist goes flying across the intersection going south. And if they were hit, it would be who's fault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted February 18, 2015 Share #36 Posted February 18, 2015 And? Everybody has an anecdote for a bad biker or careless pedestrian, but the fact of the matter is that the consequences for bad driving are far, far worse--and so the penalties should also be higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6 Limited Posted February 18, 2015 Share #37 Posted February 18, 2015 And? Everybody has an anecdote for a bad biker or careless pedestrian, but the fact of the matter is that the consequences for bad driving are far, far worse--and so the penalties should also be higher. The goggles are really rosy in here. If someone jumped off an overpass onto a highway and got ran over you'd blame it on the motorist(s). "Well they should have seen the person jumping and swerved around them, come to a complete stop give to them CPR while dialing 911 and having a candlelight vigil with fellow motorists" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Express Bus Operator Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share #38 Posted February 18, 2015 And? Everybody has an anecdote for a bad biker or careless pedestrian, but the fact of the matter is that the consequences for bad driving are far, far worse--and so the penalties should also be higher. Accidentally hitting a pedestrian is not "Bad Driving". No one is a perfect driver, and if we were, The world would never have Automobile accidents everyday. Yes you can be a good defensive driver and still manage to be involved in a automobile accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Express Bus Operator Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share #39 Posted February 18, 2015 This is from another source I discovered online. And if operators starts doing that, expect major delays within the schedules. Direct Source Link Over the weekend, TWU President John Samuelsen threatened — if one can call vowing to drive safer a threat — to slow down buses in the name of the safety: The incidents this past Friday and several weeks ago in which two Bus Operators were arrested for “failure to yield” and “failure to exercise due care” are both heartbreaking tragedies. But they were accidents, not the result of “criminal” reckless driving. Yet, our Operators were treated as if they were criminals by the Highway Police, and they face TA discipline as a result of the arrest. To add insult to blatant injustice, there are some misguided people out there applauding the criminal treatment of our Bus Operators. Now we must respond appropriately, recognizing that we are being disgracefully and unfairly scapegoated and targeted. It is imperative that we immediately move to defend our livelihoods and protect ourselves against these attacks. Therefore, we MUST Yield/Stop “when a pedestrian or bicyclist has the right of way.” If there is a pedestrian in the crosswalk, Yield/Stop your bus until they are on the sidewalk. We must exercise extreme caution at intersections and on roadways. Do not move your bus until all is clear. It you do not make your schedule, so be it. If traffic backs up as you await the ability to make an unquestionably “safe” left turn, so be it. If the bosses are displeased, so be it. Do not jeopardize your future for the sake of NYC Transit’s on time bus performance. And if you are pressured or threatened by supervision for taking these necessary steps, notify your union representative immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted February 18, 2015 Share #40 Posted February 18, 2015 Accidentally hitting a pedestrian is not "Bad Driving". No one is a perfect driver, and if we were, The world would never have Automobile accidents everyday. Yes you can be a good defensive driver and still manage to be involved in a automobile accident. Just because "no one is a perfect driver" doesn't mean that drivers who do get into accidents shouldn't be held accountable for their actions. It's inexcusable if an air traffic controller or a ship captain screws up even though their jobs are also insanely difficult, but apparently bus operators are special and the obvious conclusion to draw is "what if it was the pedestrian's fault?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsunflyguy Posted February 18, 2015 Share #41 Posted February 18, 2015 I don't know what we're waiting to see... Seems like a cut and dry case... Even when we "wait and see" we usually 'see'...it just sort of fades out, especially if the result is not favorable to the person making the appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6 Limited Posted February 18, 2015 Share #42 Posted February 18, 2015 Just because "no one is a perfect driver" doesn't mean that drivers who do get into accidents shouldn't be held accountable for their actions. It's inexcusable if an air traffic controller or a ship captain screws up even though their jobs are also insanely difficult, but apparently bus operators are special and the obvious conclusion to draw is "what if it was the pedestrian's fault?" Because Air traffic controllers have to deal with people running across the runway and captains have to look out for crossing squid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted February 18, 2015 Share #43 Posted February 18, 2015 Because Air traffic controllers have to deal with people running across the runway and captains have to look out for crossing squid. Yeah, you really got that analogy. Nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 19, 2015 Share #44 Posted February 19, 2015 Even when we "wait and see" we usually 'see'...it just sort of fades out, especially if the result is not favorable to the person making the appeal. Exactly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted February 20, 2015 Share #45 Posted February 20, 2015 I don't get why anyone here would suggest the b/o getting arrested was justified. I mean it was an accident because the bus has a blind spot where if a person were to walk behind a certain line of sight [like behind the side mirrors], the driver isn't going to see the person. Also if the bus was already on the cross walk before the light change, he has the right of way to finish moving out of the crosswalk. Pedestrians shouldn't be crossing the road without monitoring what the vehicle is doing. Even when the light is in their favor, pedestrians should observe the road first and see if the vehicle has made a full stop before crossing. A few times I've seen cars just speeding thru a red light, even with the light turning just red before they sped thru the intersection. The other point was the b/o stayed at the scene instead of just taking off as if nothing happened. What message does this send to drivers now? That it's better to run than stay because they will be arrested regardless for a law that favors the pedstrians [even if it was their fault for not paying attention or trying to beat the car to the other end of the crosswalk]? And not to blame the poor girl who has lost her leg, but if it was true about the accounts i heard of her texting on her phone, then this should be an awareness for people to stop looking at their damn phones when crossing the street. Are their status updates so important that it can't wait till after they have crossed the street safely? Are people so obsessed with their phones that they're willing to risk their lives for a device? Of course the driver has to be very cautious, but pedestrians can't be free to do whatever they want and expect everyone to stop for them. The laws need to be balanced where both the drivers and pedestrians obeys the laws and observe the crossing and not be distracted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Express Bus Operator Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share #46 Posted February 20, 2015 I don't get why anyone here would suggest the b/o getting arrested was justified. I mean it was an accident because the bus has a blind spot where if a person were to walk behind a certain line of sight [like behind the side mirrors], the driver isn't going to see the person. Also if the bus was already on the cross walk before the light change, he has the right of way to finish moving out of the crosswalk. Pedestrians shouldn't be crossing the road without monitoring what the vehicle is doing. Even when the light is in their favor, pedestrians should observe the road first and see if the vehicle has made a full stop before crossing. A few times I've seen cars just speeding thru a red light, even with the light turning just red before they sped thru the intersection. The other point was the b/o stayed at the scene instead of just taking off as if nothing happened. What message does this send to drivers now? That it's better to run than stay because they will be arrested regardless for a law that favors the pedstrians [even if it was their fault for not paying attention or trying to beat the car to the other end of the crosswalk]? And not to blame the poor girl who has lost her leg, but if it was true about the accounts i heard of her texting on her phone, then this should be an awareness for people to stop looking at their damn phones when crossing the street. Are their status updates so important that it can't wait till after they have crossed the street safely? Are people so obsessed with their phones that they're willing to risk their lives for a device? Of course the driver has to be very cautious, but pedestrians can't be free to do whatever they want and expect everyone to stop for them. The laws need to be balanced where both the drivers and pedestrians obeys the laws and observe the crossing and not be distracted. Exactly! Look before you cross is the best practice. Regardless its your cross walk. Everyone is just going by what the law has written, but the law wont be standing next to your bed at the hospital or worst at your funeral if you just cross without first observing if that vehicle will stop. LOOK before you cross and pay attention is the best practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted February 20, 2015 Share #47 Posted February 20, 2015 Exactly, pedestrians have a right, but they shouldn't always be the 'victim' if they don't obey the laws or observe the road. Drivers can only do so much. Unfortunately there will be accidents and in this case it was due to a blind spot. The b/o never should've been arrested because of a design flaw. The union needs to step in and put a stop to this before all b/os have a strike/work slow down in protest over this like what the Flatbush b/os did to a degree when one of their own was arrested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 20, 2015 Share #48 Posted February 20, 2015 Exactly, pedestrians have a right, but they shouldn't always be the 'victim' if they don't obey the laws or observe the road. Drivers can only do so much. Unfortunately there will be accidents and in this case it was due to a blind spot. The b/o never should've been arrested because of a design flaw. The union needs to step in and put a stop to this before all b/os have a strike/work slow down in protest over this like what the Flatbush b/os did to a degree when one of their own was arrested. Why should B/O's be exempt but everyone else should be subject to the law? Are they above the law or something?!?? What a ridiculous idea... If you're going to propose that then we'll have other folks wanting the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted February 20, 2015 Share #49 Posted February 20, 2015 This law under vision zero is seemingly saying 'arrest drivers' regardless of being an accident or not when they stayed at the scene. This was not the case in the past. You can't just arrest people especially in light of the blindspot issue. Why is it always the driver's fault? Pedestrians can't just walk without observing the traffic when crossing. As I said, yes pedestrians should have the right, but that doesn't mean cars will stop for them. Short of changing the signals specifically to accomodate vehicles making turns on the corners, pedestrians still need to look and make sure the vehicle is at a full stop before crossing regardless of having the walk sign in their favor. God forbid it was a hit and run. Arresting a driver that stayed at the scene sends the wrong message to other people that they'd be better off running because they'll be arrested regardless of what they did. Had the driver kept going and not stopped, then yes maybe he should be arrested, but he stayed at the scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azA Posted February 20, 2015 Share #50 Posted February 20, 2015 I don't get why anyone here would suggest the b/o getting arrested was justified. I mean it was an accident because the bus has a blind spot where if a person were to walk behind a certain line of sight [like behind the side mirrors], the driver isn't going to see the person. Also if the bus was already on the cross walk before the light change, he has the right of way to finish moving out of the crosswalk. Pedestrians shouldn't be crossing the road without monitoring what the vehicle is doing. Even when the light is in their favor, pedestrians should observe the road first and see if the vehicle has made a full stop before crossing. A few times I've seen cars just speeding thru a red light, even with the light turning just red before they sped thru the intersection. The other point was the b/o stayed at the scene instead of just taking off as if nothing happened. What message does this send to drivers now? That it's better to run than stay because they will be arrested regardless for a law that favors the pedstrians [even if it was their fault for not paying attention or trying to beat the car to the other end of the crosswalk]? And not to blame the poor girl who has lost her leg, but if it was true about the accounts i heard of her texting on her phone, then this should be an awareness for people to stop looking at their damn phones when crossing the street. Are their status updates so important that it can't wait till after they have crossed the street safely? Are people so obsessed with their phones that they're willing to risk their lives for a device? Of course the driver has to be very cautious, but pedestrians can't be free to do whatever they want and expect everyone to stop for them. The laws need to be balanced where both the drivers and pedestrians obeys the laws and observe the crossing and not be distracted. well said! i can recall one day on the b1. i was pulling into the bus stop on 86 street & 18 av and some jackass was standing in the street on his cell phone with his back to the bus. i gave him a good horn honk and scared the s##t out of him. then he had the balls to complain to the dispatcher on the corner about the way i drive! the dispatcher laughed him to scorn of course. far as im concerned,cell phones are one of the worst inventions of our time and a major cause of accidents today. i dont have one myself,dont need it,and cell phones was one of the reasons i got off the road 6 years ago to work drill tricks until my recent retirerment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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