RollOver Posted March 30, 2015 Share #26 Posted March 30, 2015 I'm sensing a bit of foam I'm sensing a bit of unnecessary hostility Fine. Excuse me for my bit of "unnecessary hostility" and "foam", so to speak. Rewording... N6 Limited, while I do agree that all weekend GOs and flagging are annoying, I don't agree with having the cut back to Queens Plaza. Even though the weekend headways on virtually every line are reduced due to track merging and bottleneck delays, the would still be needed on Queens Blvd, so those riders can still have a connection to all three Lex lines at 59th (unlike the , which only has a transfer to one Lex line). It would also still allow B'way riders to get straight to Queens Blvd via the train without needing to transfer to the and/or the , which already have their own riders. Probably the would be more reliable if it was shorten (well, specifically in Brooklyn, since it doesn't merge with any other line on 4th Ave), but I don't think it would be fair for those on Queens Blvd who also rely on it as much as the and . All in all, yes, there might be less delays if it was cut to Queens Plaza or extended to 179 St, as having one train terminating at 71 Av (while at the same time being a through station) isn't a good idea at all. Perhaps having it go to 179 St would eliminate the delays at 71 Av, as it does indeed take 5 minutes or so for the train to be fumigated (as well as any other line terminal in general). Yes, at least 179 St is a four-track terminal, which would allow some more time for both and trains to be fumigated, as both lines run every 10 minutes (or a little less frequently) on weekends due to constant GOs and flagging. Better polite constructive wording now or nah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted March 30, 2015 Share #27 Posted March 30, 2015 It seems there are no good options short of extending the to 179th OR having the go to Jamaica Center and have the run to Queens Plaza (since the can relay at Queens Plaza without interfering with the in the track setup) in this scenario. Those seem to be the only options other than what the currently does in this scenario. I re-worded my post in order for him and the rest of them to feel better now since after they shitted me off about how I was "foaming" and being "unnecessarily hostile" all the time even though I did explain that I disagreed with the guy's previous suggestion for the previous aforementioned reasons. Forget about them though. I'm still going to post regardless of what anybody else here say (or will say). Anyway, you don't really have to short the and replace it with the . As I said, 179 St makes more sense because it'a four-track terminal, allowing more time for both and trains to be fumigated there, as they run at 10-12 minute headways or so on weekends. It is true that having the still turn at 71 Av (while at the same time sharing the same track with the and ) causes similarity delays compared to Bowling Green . Yeah, it does take 5 minutes or so for a train to be fumigated (which does delay a through train behind). Hopefully though, after Queens Blvd CBTC project is done, there would most likely be little to no weekend shutdowns (sorta similar to the train nowdays and of course, the in the future). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union Tpke Posted March 30, 2015 Share #28 Posted March 30, 2015 I agree with what RollOver said. QBL does need Broadway service, and the TPH for (E)s and (F)s is lower during the weekends. You could have the terminate at JC, with a few ®s and the rest of the ®s terminate at 179th with the . I have seen this GO and while there is an fumigating at 71-CTL, there is an E/F waiting outside the station. I think this would help out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted March 30, 2015 Share #29 Posted March 30, 2015 Yeah, I should have given N6 Limited more and better detail as to why I disagreed with him (as I just did). That way, he wouldn't have said that I was "foaming" and wouldn't have reacted the way he previously did. I don't know where he came from with that "foaming" comment, but whatever. He and the rest of them didn't like the way I disagreed with him, so I had to re-word my post and give better detail. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6 Limited Posted March 31, 2015 Share #30 Posted March 31, 2015 Hey RollOver you didn't necessrily have to re-word and give better detail it was just hostile, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenSin Posted March 31, 2015 Share #31 Posted March 31, 2015 Why not simply compromise? The could switch to the express tracks between Forest Hills–71 Avenue and 75 Avenue. After skipping 75 Avenue, it would stop at Kew Gardens–Union Turnpike and drop out of service. With no passengers, it would run over to Van Wyck Boulevard on the express track, and then turn back going over the switch, picking up passengers again at Kew Gardens–Union Turnpike's southbound platform. The delay from clearing the train would be fairly isolated from the and which have to continue further down the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted March 31, 2015 Share #32 Posted March 31, 2015 Why not simply compromise? The could switch to the express tracks between Forest Hills–71 Avenue and 75 Avenue. After skipping 75 Avenue, it would stop at Kew Gardens–Union Turnpike and drop out of service. With no passengers, it would run over to Van Wyck Boulevard on the express track, and then turn back going over the switch, picking up passengers again at Kew Gardens–Union Turnpike's southbound platform. The delay from clearing the train would be fairly isolated from the and which have to continue further down the line. I have to admit that you make some excellent posts and you really have certainly added to my knowledge. This is a much better idea. I should have thought about this from the very beginning. Thank you so much, CenSin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallyhorse Posted March 31, 2015 Share #33 Posted March 31, 2015 Why not simply compromise? The could switch to the express tracks between Forest Hills–71 Avenue and 75 Avenue. After skipping 75 Avenue, it would stop at Kew Gardens–Union Turnpike and drop out of service. With no passengers, it would run over to Van Wyck Boulevard on the express track, and then turn back going over the switch, picking up passengers again at Kew Gardens–Union Turnpike's southbound platform. The delay from clearing the train would be fairly isolated from the and which have to continue further down the line. If they can get by without storing trains on the express tracks there like they normally do, then that would work. Otherwise, you'd be looking at one of the other scenarios previously outlined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted March 31, 2015 Share #34 Posted March 31, 2015 If they can get by without storing trains on the express tracks there like they normally do, then that would work. Otherwise, you'd be looking at one of the other scenarios previously outlined.Hillside Avenue express tracks are always filled with storage trains that can't be hold at Jamaica. Whatever trains that are stored on the Queens Blvd express tracks between 75 Av and Van Wyck Blvd can be stored at the lower level lead tracks (that come to and from Jamaica yard) instead. That way, northbound trains can switch over to the express track after Forest Hills so they can skip 75 Av and drop out at Kew Gardens, then use the crossover switch east of the station to relay and return to service for Manhattan by picking up passengers at Kew Gardens on the southbound side (as CenSin described it). I definitely should have thought about this from the very beginning, because that way, I wouldn't have gotten the slide ass remarks that I received at the previous page. I fully agree that CenSin's scenario makes the most sense though. *Obviously*, they were right that my disagreement with N6 Limited should have been worded differently in this particular type of thread. As for the train thread that was recently locked, yeah, that was completely different from this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32 3838 Posted March 31, 2015 Share #35 Posted March 31, 2015 It costs more to have the relay east of 179 St than just the alone. 90% of Hillside passengers are also on their way to 63 St/6 Av anyway. not all of them want 63rd, but 63rd st does have its benifits, most of the hillside riders want 53rd st, that's why you have those selected (E)'s out of 179th during the AM and PM rush (PM rush is just to add extra trains to the ) I think the should go to 179th, it would get ridership, the should stay where its at, a good chunk of people who come from jamaica transfer to a local anyway, the to 179th wouldn't hurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union Tpke Posted March 31, 2015 Share #36 Posted March 31, 2015 not all of them want 63rd, but 63rd st does have its benifits, most of the hillside riders want 53rd st, that's why you have those selected (E)'s out of 179th during the AM and PM rush (PM rush is just to add extra trains to the ) I think the should go to 179th, it would get ridership, the should stay where its at, a good chunk of people who come from jamaica transfer to a local anyway, the to 179th wouldn't hurt this would also help alleviate the conga line on QBL with a local train waiting at 67th, one waiting in the tunnel between there and 71st, and one waiting in 71st to get onto the yard lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTA Dude Posted April 1, 2015 Share #37 Posted April 1, 2015 not all of them want 63rd, but 63rd st does have its benifits, most of the hillside riders want 53rd st, that's why you have those selected (E)'s out of 179th during the AM and PM rush (PM rush is just to add extra trains to the ) I think the should go to 179th, it would get ridership, the should stay where its at, a good chunk of people who come from jamaica transfer to a local anyway, the to 179th wouldn't hurt The select goes to 179th St because JC is only capable of turning up to 12 TPH. The going to 179th will not work, people can take the . Where are you to getting this information that Hillside wants 6th Av, 53rd, 63rd stuff? Besides, it will get delayed so much it will be the new transit turtle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted April 1, 2015 Share #38 Posted April 1, 2015 The select goes to 179th St because JC is only capable of turning up to 12 TPH. The going to 179th will not work, people can take the . Where are you to getting this information that Hillside wants 6th Av, 53rd, 63rd stuff? Besides, it will get delayed so much it will be the new transit turtle. Anybody from the easternmost end of Queens Blvd that crowd the are the ones going to destinations on the . However, I agree that he is wrong about why the three scheduled trains head to/from 179 St during rush hours though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallyhorse Posted April 1, 2015 Share #39 Posted April 1, 2015 Hillside Avenue express tracks are always filled with storage trains that can't be hold at Jamaica. Whatever trains that are stored on the Queens Blvd express tracks between 75 Av and Van Wyck Blvd can be stored at the lower level lead tracks (that come to and from Jamaica yard) instead. That way, northbound trains can switch over to the express track after Forest Hills so they can skip 75 Av and drop out at Kew Gardens, then use the crossover switch east of the station to relay and return to service for Manhattan by picking up passengers at Kew Gardens on the southbound side (as CenSin described it). I definitely should have thought about this from the very beginning, because that way, I wouldn't have gotten the slide ass remarks that I received at the previous page. I fully agree that CenSin's scenario makes the most sense though. *Obviously*, they were right that my disagreement with N6 Limited should have been worded differently in this particular type of thread. As for the train thread that was recently locked, yeah, that was completely different from this thread. Yeah, extending the to 75th-Kew Gardens would work in that scenario, especially if the can terminate on the express track there. As for the idea of extending the to 179, if the is terminating at 71-Continental, that may not work so easily as you'd likely still have a conga line UNLESS you also sped up the fumigation procedures at 71. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted April 1, 2015 Share #40 Posted April 1, 2015 Hey RollOver you didn't necessrily have to re-word and give better detail it was just hostile, lol Whatever I guess... I hope you and them are happy that I'm not the "foamer" and "hostiler" that I once "was", particular in this type of thread (even though you did sorta reacted heavily when I said no for the previous reasons mention earlier two pages back)... Yeah, extending the to 75th-Kew Gardens would work in that scenario, especially if the can terminate on the express track there. As for the idea of extending the to 179, if the is terminating at 71-Continental, that may not work so easily as you'd likely still have a conga line UNLESS you also sped up the fumigation procedures at 71. Yes, but there should also be less delays on every other weekend GOs, depending on what type it is (as in track merging, switching etc). It's not really just the train issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6 Limited Posted April 1, 2015 Share #41 Posted April 1, 2015 Whatever I guess... I hope you and them are happy that I'm not the "foamer" and "hostiler" that I once "was", particular in this type of thread (even though you did sorta reacted heavily when I said no for the previous reasons mention earlier two pages back)... Yes, but there should also be less delays on every other weekend GOs, depending on what type it is (as in track merging, switching etc). It's not really just the train issue. Well you said the is needed to "scrape the wall" but it is not when the and are local. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted April 1, 2015 Share #42 Posted April 1, 2015 Well you said the is needed to "scrape the wall" but it is not when the and are local. I hope you know that the term "scrape the wall" means making all local stops, right? But yes, while I do know that I can sure as hell be much better in constructively articulating my posts than I have recently been doing in the past couple of days, your reaction could have also been calmer too (as well as my own reaction after your post). So I guess it's a safe bet to say that we both finally agree that whenever trains share the same track during those weekend GOs, trains should have been skipping 75 Av and originate/terminating at Union Tpke (meaning little to no delays). Of course though, the other weekend GOs also could be better than they are now in the entire subway system overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTA Dude Posted April 1, 2015 Share #43 Posted April 1, 2015 I got a better idea. Have an be held while an AND an train 2 minutes away passes in front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamousNYLover Posted April 2, 2015 Share #44 Posted April 2, 2015 The is horrible during the winter and that is because of the Broad Channel Bridge. The Broad Channel bridge gets stuck in the open position and this happened a few times. I was at the terminal(Mott Av), the train was still at the terminal for 20 minutes, the conductor announced that "the Broad Channel bridge is stuck at the open position"..... blah blah blah. Then a employee told people that there was "shuttle buses downstairs", you know what happen after that, I got downstairs and there was no shuttle buses. The station booth agent gave us a block ticket and I had to take the Q22 back to Beach 81st and then transfer to the Q52 LTD and take that all the way to Rockaway Blvd. I can also take the Q113 LTD to Jamaica Center and take the to WTC/Chambers St if I wanted to. One time, I was on the platform waiting for the to arrive(none was at the terminal) and the announcement said "There is a track switch problem at Utica Av". Thats how far the Far Rockaway bound train was at. All of this was weather related during my winter experience. I always say to myself do not take the after a bad snow storm because of the dam bridge getting stuck and I still take it and this is what I get for not trusting my instinct. Now this one is not weather related, I was heading home and when I got to Howard Beach-JFK, the conductor said "This is your conductor speaking, there is a disable train ahead of us, all passengers must get off and wait on the platform". So we did, 5 minutes later, another train came and dropped off all the passengers. The NYPD told us to get on the Manhattan bound train and get off at Rockaway Blvd and take the Q52 LTD or Q53 LTD. There was no shuttle buses at all, the LTD's was full. All the sudden, the supervisor said the was back to normal. Everyone had to give back the block ticket and I did not give mine back, I kept it. As I was waiting for my Far Rockaway train to come, all I saw was 3 more Lefferts bound trains coming 5 minutes apart. I lost my patience and went downstairs for the LTD and I still had my block ticket at the time. Overall, when it comes to bad snow storms, I should of leave 1 hour and a half early and this is why the said "add additonal travel time" and I do have 2 other alternatives if the was suspended due to bridge getting stuck. It not just . I remember one time I got stuck on Q35 and Q102 when bridge was stuck in open potion as well and it took long time as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6 Limited Posted April 2, 2015 Share #45 Posted April 2, 2015 Well you said the is needed to "scrape the wall" but it is not when the and are local. I hope you know that the term "scrape the wall" means making all local stops, right? Yes, this is implied in my response, this is why the isn't needed if the and are both running local.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted April 2, 2015 Share #46 Posted April 2, 2015 As I said, it's fine if you don't agree with my reasons that I've told you (as the other ones in the previous page and this current page), but your reaction could have also been calmer (including mine afterwards). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32 3838 Posted April 2, 2015 Share #47 Posted April 2, 2015 Anybody from the easternmost end of Queens Blvd that crowd the are the ones going to destinations on the . However, I agree that he is wrong about why the three scheduled trains head to/from 179 St during rush hours though. how am i wrong about the Extra (E)'s out of 179th, take the from 179th during the AM rush and tell me how packed it is, besides the Jamaica center part yes that is true that the can only handle a certain amount of trains during the rush, I used to take the (E)'s out of 179th during the AM rush in 2004 and as soon as it left 179th, there were no space left, those (E)'s carry and they still do because when i take the in the morning, a large group of people always wait for those (E)'s its obvious that they want 53rd st service as well, that's one of the major reasons why they started the limited service to and from 179th besides JC not being able to handle all trains Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32 3838 Posted April 2, 2015 Share #48 Posted April 2, 2015 to to add to what i said, I lived around the and all my life, how can you tell someone who rides both lines everyday that's wrong, and how would the to 179th won't work, the majority of the (M)'s that get laid up in queens go on the southbound express tracks between 169th and parsons blvd, it would make sense just to send the (M)'s to 179th, it don't have to be now, but in the future it would help, 179th can handle 2 lines at one time, that terminal is built to handle more than 1 line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted April 2, 2015 Share #49 Posted April 2, 2015 Very simply put, if the diamond X switch was located directly to the west of Jamaica Center upper level, then it could have finally handle trains every 4 minutes just like World Trade Center. If any Hillside Avenue riders want 53rd Street and 8th Avenue, they can still transfer at Kew Gardens for the anyway. That's why I agreed with MTA Dude that you were wrong about the occasional 's being sent in and out of 179th during rush hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32 3838 Posted April 2, 2015 Share #50 Posted April 2, 2015 thats the whole point, i already know thats why i said that was one of the major reasons, thus the jamaica center part being the other, yes you do have people who take the and crossover but during the am rush the is already packed past Supthin blvd, those 3 from 179th do help and they're packed as well, the limited to 179th didn't start until around 2002-2003 (around that timeframe) when they added about 3-4 trainsets to the , and yeah that diamond crossover is in the middle because jamaica center wasn't supposed to be a terminal, the Original line was supposed to run along the LIRR Far Rock branch ( that LIRR line that runs and make stops at locust mannor and etc.) to rosedale but of course money was and issue and the line ended at jamaica center, the tunnel that runs in the back curves on to 160th st and it ends on south road under a church parking lot next to the LIRR ROW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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