Why You Should Care About the Woodhaven Boulevard Bus Lanes

[John from Flushing]

How do you get rid of traffic? You make a bus only lane, and make speed limit 20mph, you have one green light then one red light keep traffic moving at the speed of a bike. I think bus lanes should have the right away & on it's own traffic signal

[Via Garibaldi 8]

How do you get rid of traffic? You make a bus only lane, and make speed limit 20mph, you have one green light then one red light keep traffic moving at the speed of a bike. I think bus lanes should have the right away & on it's own traffic signal

For starters, you charge people who want to be prima donnas and drive into Manhattan.  I counted as I was stuck on the damn Deegan this morning... So many people driving ALONE in their car. It's ridiculous.  Meanwhile it took me an hour and 20 minutes to get in on a Super Express bus on a summer in August nonetheless.

[John from Flushing]

That is a great idea & I support it. Nobody other than yellow cabs should drive into manhattan this is why we have the subway & mta express buses, but how can the city charge each car coming in? We don't have toll booths at every entrance Into manhattan, why do people feel they need to drive into manhattan? The only way I go into the city is by taking the 7 train I live in flushing & it's a 10 minute walk to the subway, this is why I supprt public transportation & bikes. My friend rides a bike in flushing & nobody yields to him.

[BrooklynBus]

According to NY STATE LAW all pedestrian's have 100% right of way in the crosswalk, If i am crossing the street with a "green light" & cars have green light to turn, the car is supposed to come to a complete stop & yeild to me so I can safely cross, I dont care if im walking slow, texting & walking with my eyes facing the ground, the car is supposed to come to a complete stop & let me cross, people are saying pedestrians are not paying attention, this might be true, but the driver of the car has laws to follow, if I was jay walking in the middle of the street, this would be different, now with woodhaven & main street for Q44 SBS, i think woodhaven & cross bay blvd should be divided up, 4 lanes is way too big & dangerous in my view for a nyc local street.now woodhaven in my "vision" would have two lanes for cars in each direction & two lanes for the buses, one bus travel lane & one bus lane for bus stops, I would elimate all parking on woodhaven, if you elimate parking more people will leave the car at home & take SBS bus. I would install a big metal fence on woodhaven just like queens blvd has, this way jay walking will be immpossible. for turns my vision would be every ONE mile the car lane would open up into the bus lanes, just like the hov lanes exits on the LIE. and you can make right turn only from bus stop lane, not bus travel lane, My vison would be to have bus lanes 100% camera enforced at all times, with all fines going toward SBS I would have each SBS on 10 minute headways & local bus 20 minute headway, & each SBS stop one mile or more between stops. & for the beach I would have SBS at every stop for the beach goers, only from MEMORIAL day to LABOR DAY. Also main street flushing i would have one bus lane and one car lane, I would install fence in middle to stop jay walking, & remove parking from on both sides from LIE to NORTHERN BLVD. Q44 SBS would work 100%, you pay at the curb, and the SBS bus should WAIT for you to pay & get receipt, Thanks.

Yes, drivers shoud give pedestrians the right of way. But what in the world does that have to do with the topic being discussed? Do you know the meaning of listening to someone. I responded to your previous comments but rather than disputing anything I said, you just repeat what you previously stated and with making many inaccuracies. No SBS stop is further than a mile apart and some are only a quarter mile apart.

 

Also, Woodhaven is not a local street but restricted access major arterial. There is quite a difference, but when this proposal is implemented cars won't be traveling any faster than they do on a local street that is used only for a few blocks, not for five, ten or fourteen miles as users use Woodhaven Cross Bay for. It is ridiculous to ask drivers not to exceed 25 mph or 30 mph for 14 miles with an average speed of 12 mph. That would be an hour from Rockaway to the Queens Mall and perhaps 90 minutes or more to the Bronx. Bus or train would even take longer even with SBS. We can't be adding 45 minutes to people's trips. You act like no one in a car matters.

 

Excuse me but we don't need a bus making a stop every block. It's insane. There is definitely room to remove some stops. I didn't make any suggestion to have people walking as far as you stated. It was John from Flushing that made that comment. I'm well aware of who uses the buses. You seem to think that the status quo is perfectly fine, when it clearly isn't.

 

As for repaving, the more repaving the better. Our roads are an absolute mess.

Who advocated buses stopping every city block? Not me. Every avenue block yes. And every two or three blocks is just fine depending on the situation. Even occasionally every fourth block in less populated areas.

 

Do you want buses to stop every alternate avenue? Don't you realize how big a distance walking from Fifth to Sixth Avenue to Seventh Avenue is? If you were making a transfer from a crosstown bus, would you want to get off at Sixth Avenue and have to walk to Seventh Avenue to make the transfer if Sixth Avenue wasn't a stop? Do you think that woud encourage bus usage? Make a few changes where they are necessary like not spacing the B49 stop twice within 100 feet. But please no general rules. If I am going to a hospital, I want the bus to stop in front, not two blocks away.

 

John is distorting the existing situation. Buses don't stop every city block except in a few cases which may need to be rectified but not always. If he thinks every avenue block is too frequent, the above comment is for him. If you think every avenue block is just fine, then it is not meant for you.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yes, drivers shoud give pedestrians the right of way. But what in the world does that have to do with the topic being discussed? Do you know the meaning of listening to someone. I responded to your previous comments but rather than disputing anything I said, you just repeat what you previously stated and with making many inaccuracies. No SBS stop is further than a mile apart and some are only a quarter mile apart.

 

Also, Woodhaven is not a local street but restricted access major arterial. There is quite a difference, but when this proposal is implemented cars won't be traveling any faster than they do on a local street that is used only for a few blocks, not for five, ten or fourteen miles as users use Woodhaven Cross Bay for. It is ridiculous to ask drivers not to exceed 25 mph or 30 mph for 14 miles with an average speed of 12 mph. That would be an hour from Rockaway to the Queens Mall and perhaps 90 minutes or more to the Bronx. Bus or train would even take longer even with SBS. We can't be adding 45 minutes to people's trips. You act like no one in a car matters.

 

Who advocated buses stopping every city block? Not me. Every avenue block yes. And every two or three blocks is just fine depending on the situation. Even occasionally every fourth block in less populated areas.

 

Do you want buses to stop every alternate avenue? Don't you realize how big a distance walking from Fifth to Sixth Avenue to Seventh Avenue is? If you were making a transfer from a crosstown bus, would you want to get off at Sixth Avenue and have to walk to Seventh Avenue to make the transfer if Sixth Avenue wasn't a stop? Do you think that woud encourage bus usage? Make a few changes where they are necessary like not spacing the B49 stop twice within 100 feet. But please no general rules. If I am going to a hospital, I want the bus to stop in front, not two blocks away.

 

John is distorting the existing situation. Buses don't stop every city block except in a few cases which may need to be rectified but not always. If he thinks every avenue block is too frequent, the above comment is for him. If you think every avenue block is just fine, then it is not meant for you.

I realize how long it is because my express buses leave me on 7th or Lex and I have a 15 - 20 minute walk to get to my office.  Crosstown buses are fine for the most part.  This is more for buses that go north/south.

[John from Flushing]

Brooklynbus the speed limit in NYC regardless of the street, Ave, blvd, parkway is 25 MPH. Unless otherwise stated. So if speed limit sign this means 25 MPH. Thank you.

[CPBO]

I'm calling shenanigans on this. What times of the day did you take the Q53? Because my friend does the Q52 from morning to the early evening hours and he has hit traffic pretty often....

Maybe he encounters traffic but not any passengers....they lay back n let the q53 do all the work...and I gotta say the general public is dumb...I pull up to a stop with the 53 n people to the windshield...a 52 will pull up behind me and they bun rush my bus...what's with that? We go down the line one behind the other....the 53 is a better bus? I even yell the bus behind me is empty...guess what happens next....yes door close....

[BrooklynBus]

Maybe he encounters traffic but not any passengers....they lay back n let the q53 do all the work...and I gotta say the general public is dumb...I pull up to a stop with the 53 n people to the windshield...a 52 will pull up behind me and they bun rush my bus...what's with that? We go down the line one behind the other....the 53 is a better bus? I even yell the bus behind me is empty...guess what happens next....yes door close....

The destinations are different. I can use the Q53 but not the Q52. Not everyone is getting off on Woodhaven and Cross Bay. Also, they might not know the route of the Q52 since it is relatively new. They only know they always took the Q53. Maybe the MTA needs to market the Q52 better. All they did was put up notices for a week.

[FamousNYLover]

That is what I have been saying all along. Bus service speeds are only a problem during rush hours. There is absolutely no need for bus lanes at other times. Buses will not travel any faster. And to determine if they are necessary during rush hours, one has to look at the effects for everyone during rush hours, not only the effect on bus speeds but the effect on speeds for other traffic also.

That's not really true. Also remember sometimes US Open-METS games could create heavey traffic on LIE, which will force Woodhaven Blvd to be more heavy traffic.

I have been on Q52 and Q53 and it sometimes takes 45-50 minutes to move along Woodhaven-Cross Bay Blvds.

 

Just give the SBS a chance, SBs works fine on the M15 in Manhattan, Just think about it, a express bus in its own lane. with stops every 2 miles, this would get people to the beach faster, if you need the regular stops, then you take the local bus, in far rockaway the bus stops should be close to the beach. I think sbs would work, Nice li bus should try a sbs bus.

 

And speed for cars should be reduced, nyc should slow down cars so they go as fast as a bike, remember the faster a car goes the more chance you get seriously hurt or even death if you get hit by a car, now with woodhaven maybe the city should make it 2 lanes for cars and make one big wide bus lane surrounded by a fence and take away all parking on the right side, so the bus can pull into each stop, so 2 lanes would be for the bus, and no right or left turns, only every mile or two you can turn im sure you can go down side streets to get to your location, this would be a good vision for faster speed bus service.now since the bus lanes would be surronded by a fence, you can make bus speed limit 35 or 40 mph.

SBS is not express bus. SBS is NYC's Bus Rapid Transit, where people uses off-board fareboarding SBS Fare Collector, obtrain proof-of-payment receipt with same $2.75 price. There are NO FENCES ALONG THE BUS LANES. Only bus lanes that are fenced is M15 SBS Northbound on 1st Av between 29th and 34th Sts but M15 bus drivers don't use it because there's mostly ambulances and taxis/Access-A-Ride waiting to go to NYU Medical Center often blocks the bus lane.

 

 

I am not willing to have $231 million of my tax money spent for this project with absolutely no proof that it will work. We need numbers, not generalities. Who cares if SBS works on Second Avenue, which is debatable anyway? Who cares if it works in Colombia? None of that means it would work on Woodhaven.

 

And if you call cars traveling as slow as bikes a good thing, your priorities are all screwed up and you have no concern at all for anyone who drives. Why wou,d you care if this adds 45 minutes to someone's trip as long as it is not you? You are just an obvious car hater and do not realize the necessity of the automobile in this area where car ownership is high and there are no north South subways and few east west ones.

 

Also your facts are all wrong. SBS bus stops are not spaced at every two miles. Also, you are only allowed two buses for one fare. If one of them is used to transfer from the SBS to the local, most riders will require a double or a triple fare for a one way trip. That will certainly not increase bus usage.

 

 

Just give it a chance, studies have been done the closer a car travels if it hits a person the more likely that person will LIVE. This is going to be reality where cars are slowed down, is there any reason why a car should be going 30 mph plus on a major roadway like wood haven or cross bay where many people are trying to cross the street? If the speed limit is 20 ( which I support for cars and 35 mph for buses more people will leave the car at home & take the faster Sbs bus, if you pay cash fare you can get

A transfer to another bus but not the same bus number.

 

With nice bus we don't have bus stops every block it's usually every 3-4 blocks. Your correct to make buses run faster we have to further space out local bus stops. My idea is every 3 blocks a local bus stop & every MILE would be a sbs stop, if that bus stop doesn't get much ridership than space the stop out further, not less and of course with sbs make every sbs stop at a train station or every major bus transfer point.

For n20 bus coming from Hicksville, Roslyn or n21 coming from Glen Cove, there are two close stop which is Northern Blvd before Middle Neck Rd and Middle Neck Rd/Northern Blvd on same corner.

 

 

So paying the fare requires you to put your metrocard and change in the SBS machines but how does that work if I happen to see the bus and I run to catch it before the bus leaves. Does the bus have to pull off or is the bus suppose to wait until I pay my fare on the machine and then board the bus? If it is the latter than I suppose SBS is not worth it because if everyone is finished and I am trying to catch the bus and the driver see me I pretty much hold the bus. Now if late people pay by using their cards on the bus than maybe it would be better.

 

From the statistics SBS caused ridership to decrease, however many people farebeat because the MTA makes it so easy to do so or some people don't know how those machines at the stop work. It sounds so silly saying that but put SBS on the Q44 in the fall and watch how many people in Flushing Main St will know how to use it. They will still be paying on the bus and I think it should be the MTA's responsibility to advertise SBS everywhere so people would know how it works. Since SBS usually causes local ridership to increase expect the Q11 and Q21 to have an increase in ridership while the numbers go slightly down on the Q52/Q53.

I already know it will happen to the Q44 and the Q20 is going to see a huge increase. I don't mean to be sterotypical but some people just don't want learn how things in America work when they move here. A few people trying to pay with cash on the bus when I was on a Q44 the other day. One of them I recognized before because they did that same thing before. MTA can't put SBS on a line and expect people to know what to do. That's why ridership is decreasing on those line.

SBS buses act like subways/lightrail ticket.

If you didn't buy a ticket when SBS bus comes, SBS bus leaves and you had to wait for next one.

SBS buses are not suppose to wait  unless if SBS bus station is near traffic light. Also depends on some bus drivers, they ate.

 

Lots of tourists at LaGuardia Airport who wants to board M60 SBS or M86 SBS near Metropolitan Museum of Art doesn't know how to use SBS machine and they get upset when SBS bus leave.

[CPBO]

The destinations are different. I can use the Q53 but not the Q52. Not everyone is getting off on Woodhaven and Cross Bay. Also, they might not know the route of the Q52 since it is relatively new. They only know they always took the Q53. Maybe the MTA needs to market the Q52 better. All they did was put up notices for a week.

If I am heading to woodside and am in broad channel with a packed bus already..n the 52 never passes me..."lays back" that's messed up...than you pull into liberty ave and all the people hit your bus and not the 52...except for a coupe of people...I think its like tunnel vision or something...than as the people run to the other bus he closes the door...it's so funny how nobody wants to work...but everybody wants to get paid...I'm a bus operator and I deal with this everyday at work....but the difference between me and the others I go down the line do what I gotta do and keep it moving......but the q52 are the masters of not working...

[NewFlyer 230]

If I am heading to woodside and am in broad channel with a packed bus already..n the 52 never passes me..."lays back" that's messed up...than you pull into liberty ave and all the people hit your bus and not the 52...except for a coupe of people...I think its like tunnel vision or something...than as the people run to the other bus he closes the door...it's so funny how nobody wants to work...but everybody wants to get paid...I'm a bus operator and I deal with this everyday at work....but the difference between me and the others I go down the line do what I gotta do and keep it moving......but the q52 are the masters of not working...

Yeah I noticed that with he Q52. You can have two packed Q53's bunched with a Q52 with seats and SRO and they mostly run for the Q53. I was never a big fan of the Q52 in the first place and what I think that should of happened was the Q53 has short turns at maybe Cross Bay 164th Ave. The Q21 would still have that local and LTD service to Arverne.

[BrooklynBus]

Yeah I noticed that with he Q52. You can have two packed Q53's bunched with a Q52 with seats and SRO and they mostly run for the Q53. I was never a big fan of the Q52 in the first place and what I think that should of happened was the Q53 has short turns at maybe Cross Bay 164th Ave. The Q21 would still have that local and LTD service to Arverne.

On heavy days there shoud be short turns on the Q53, but think Liberty would be better than 164 Ave.

[BrooklynBus]

Anti-SBS rally this Sunday near the Queens Mall

 

http://queenscourier.com/transit-advocates-to-rally-in-elmhurst-for-improvements/

[BrooklynBus]

The opposition is growing.

 

 

http://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2015/09/14/queens-transit-advocates-rally-against-select-bus-service.html

 

http://queenstribune.com/cb-10-doesnt-like-cross-bay-bus-lane-idea/

 

http://www.qchron.com/editions/queenswide/cb-still-wary-of-select-bus-service/article_dd3c53cf-05db-5da7-a5be-df7730123b40.html

[NewFlyer 230]

They really don't want a Q52/Q53 SBS. I mean I don't really blame them because I personally think one is not needed. They are already fast routes from the Rockaways to Elmhurst and Woodside. I don't like the idea of the MTA just shoving the concept of SBS down our throats because they can save a few bucks by running it. The Q44 SBS is not going to work and that is only because of the Flushing area. The bus is till going to take forever to travel between the L.I.E and Northern Blvd because of the heavy traffic that occurs during rush hour. Maybe Queens is not fit to have an SBS route because there are not many routes that can actually benefit from it. Maybe the Q46 perhaps I really don't know.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

They really don't want a Q52/Q53 SBS. I mean I don't really blame them because I personally think one is not needed. They are already fast routes from the Rockaways to Elmhurst and Woodside. I don't like the idea of the MTA just shoving the concept of SBS down our throats because they can save a few bucks by running it. The Q44 SBS is not going to work and that is only because of the Flushing area. The bus is till going to take forever to travel between the L.I.E and Northern Blvd because of the heavy traffic that occurs during rush hour. Maybe Queens is not fit to have an SBS route because there are not many routes that can actually benefit from it. Maybe the Q46 perhaps I really don't know.

While the 52/53 SBS design and concept has flaws, they are not fast routes. Especially around the LIE during rush, and further down on the bridge at Metro, and South of Liberty are chokepoints.

[Cait Sith]

While the 52/53 SBS design and concept has flaws, they are not fast routes. Especially around the LIE during rush, and further down on the bridge at Metro, and South of Liberty are chokepoints.

That they are not.

 

This very much depends on how the bus lanes will be managed. If they can actually enforce it, there may be hope, especially with the type of plan being pushed.

 

One thing is for sure though, the Q53 needs artics.

 

 

They really don't want a Q52/Q53 SBS. I mean I don't really blame them because I personally think one is not needed. They are already fast routes from the Rockaways to Elmhurst and Woodside. I don't like the idea of the MTA just shoving the concept of SBS down our throats because they can save a few bucks by running it. The Q44 SBS is not going to work and that is only because of the Flushing area. The bus is till going to take forever to travel between the L.I.E and Northern Blvd because of the heavy traffic that occurs during rush hour. Maybe Queens is not fit to have an SBS route because there are not many routes that can actually benefit from it. Maybe the Q46 perhaps I really don't know.

 

Flushing won't really change anything for the Q44. I think it'll work out. Folks said artics cause problems in Flushing, and in some cases, they do. I don't think SBS would be bad in Flushing. They're not going to change much around that area for the Q44.

 

Unless you mean the demographic in Flushing, take a look at the M15 SBS. Folks said it wouldn't be a success because of the type of people living around that area, and it's been very successful.

[NewFlyer 230]

Well I'm not talking about the people living in the area. Over time they will get used to SBS and learn how it works. I'm just saying as far as having a SBS I think Flushing is still going to be that choke point for the Q44. I been on Q44's that literally took 10 minutes just to get from Maple Street to Kissena Blvd just because the traffic was just that backed up.

 

Oh yeah so for the SBS on the Q52/Q53 does any one think the local service is going to be altered in anyway. I feel like SBS will be used as a way to force people off the locals and that will allow the MTA to cut more Q11/Q21 service. Plus with artics being added I can see more locals being empty.

[Cait Sith]

Well I'm not talking about the people living in the area. Over time they will get used to SBS and learn how it works. I'm just saying as far as having a SBS I think Flushing is still going to be that choke point for the Q44. I been on Q44's that literally took 10 minutes just to get from Maple Street to Kissena Blvd just because the traffic was just that backed up.

 

Oh yeah so for the SBS on the Q52/Q53 does any one think the local service is going to be altered in anyway. I feel like SBS will be used as a way to force people off the locals and that will allow the MTA to cut more Q11/Q21 service. Plus with artics being added I can see more locals being empty.

Choke points will always been in an SBS route no matter what. Examples such as Fordham Road and Pelham Parkway are choke points of the Bx12, 2nd Avenue between 57th and 14th Streets is a choke point on the M15 SBS, 125th Street and the Triboro Bridge(at times) along with LaGuardia Airport(at times) are choke points for the M60. The M34/34A has choke points in both directions due to traffic. You can't avoid it.

 

They're gonna have to increase local service a tiny bit. The stops on the SBS bypasses a lot of local stops used by folks who use the Q11 and Q21. It's gonna be interesting to see how the Woodhaven SBS and locals will work once this all rolls out.

[bobtehpanda]

Well I'm not talking about the people living in the area. Over time they will get used to SBS and learn how it works. I'm just saying as far as having a SBS I think Flushing is still going to be that choke point for the Q44. I been on Q44's that literally took 10 minutes just to get from Maple Street to Kissena Blvd just because the traffic was just that backed up.

 

Oh yeah so for the SBS on the Q52/Q53 does any one think the local service is going to be altered in anyway. I feel like SBS will be used as a way to force people off the locals and that will allow the MTA to cut more Q11/Q21 service. Plus with artics being added I can see more locals being empty.

 

There are supposed to be bus lanes from Northern through Roosevelt to HHE, which should be more than enough to speed up travel times. With all the buses in the area I'm suprised they didn't get implemented sooner.

 

That being said, the best thing they could do for traffic in Flushing, bus or otherwise, would be to shutter that parking garage in the New World Mall next to the train tracks. The area is way too congested to have a parking lot entrance.

[NewFlyer 230]

There are supposed to be bus lanes from Northern through Roosevelt to HHE, which should be more than enough to speed up travel times. With all the buses in the area I'm suprised they didn't get implemented sooner.

 

That being said, the best thing they could do for traffic in Flushing, bus or otherwise, would be to shutter that parking garage in the New World Mall next to the train tracks. The area is way too congested to have a parking lot entrance.

There needs to be cops out there giving people tickets if they park in the bus lane. In Flushing it needs to be strictly enforced because if not they are going to park up in the bus stop causing buses to stop in the street which will cause traffic.

[bobtehpanda]

There needs to be cops out there giving people tickets if they park in the bus lane. In Flushing it needs to be strictly enforced because if not they are going to park up in the bus stop causing buses to stop in the street which will cause traffic.

 

...if this isn't a common problem now, why would it be a problem in the future? I can't think of a time where I was on Main St and a car was blocking a bus stop.

 

The bus lane is also not curbside, but offset. So one parking/bus stop lane, the bus lane, and one moving lane.

[NewFlyer 230]

...if this isn't a common problem now, why would it be a problem in the future? I can't think of a time where I was on Main St and a car was blocking a bus stop.

 

The bus lane is also not curbside, but offset. So one parking/bus stop lane, the bus lane, and one moving lane.

Well you must not be in Flushing often like I am. There is always a delivery truck, a coach bus a cab or some person waiting for someone at the Q44/Q20 bus stop and the Q25/Q34 and Q65 stop.

[bobtehpanda]

Well you must not be in Flushing often like I am. There is always a delivery truck, a coach bus a cab or some person waiting for someone at the Q44/Q20 bus stop and the Q25/Q34 and Q65 stop.

 

That might just be those specific stops. Normally whenever I'm in Flushing nothing really blocks the 17 or 27, except other 17s and 27s.

[Cait Sith]

Well you must not be in Flushing often like I am. There is always a delivery truck, a coach bus a cab or some person waiting for someone at the Q44/Q20 bus stop and the Q25/Q34 and Q65 stop.

That doesn't mean the Q44 SBS won't work in Flushing at all.