Select Bus Service coming to 23rd Street

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just remember , the rear doesn't drop. 

 

Yes, its low floor, but its still high, especially for the elderly. When I used to do the 23, ALL the elderly folks used the front door because that was the lowest point to the pavement. Especially asking me "Is that as low as it goes?" 

It was evident that they couldn't handle it.

Listen, we know they all get out at the front, sometimes with the ramp out and they're already holding on when they're getting off.  My point is that some of them seem petrified to get off.  As you've already pointed out if the bus is as low as it's going to get, it doesn't matter how long they stand there, so no point in waiting and waiting.  Make your way off of the bus so that people can get on.  Some of them clearly should have a walker, but for whatever reason they don't, so then they expect others to assist them getting off of the bus, which makes it a whole spectacle, which it should not be.  Then you have those that get on and off that just do anything to hold the bus up and you know the types that I'm talking about.  They'll ask where is the bus going even though it's in large letters.  Between them and the obnoxious tourists that think that every bus is going where they're going, this is a big reason why bus service is becoming worse and worse.    

[QM1to6Ave]

How come the kneeling feature doesn't lower the back door? Seems like it would make a lot of sense

[Cait Sith]

How come the kneeling feature doesn't lower the back door? Seems like it would make a lot of sense

 

Not spec'd in our buses.

[DetSMART45]

Never heard of kneeling ability for back doors.  Only ones I could possibly see that work on would be 29-footers.  I know that when Detroit got the first GMC RTSes in 1978, TV news reports sort of made a big deal about the kneeling feature since GM Old/New Looks were being used previously that didn't have it.

[QM1to6Ave]

Not spec'd in our buses.

Is it theoretically an available feature? It would make a lot of sense for the SBS buses especially

[Fresh Pond]

Its a customer spec that you can ask for. SEPTA has that feature on their buses (New Flyers specifically, not sure about the Novas). Once the front goes all the way down, the bus leans to the right for the back door.

[BrooklynBus]

Don't they have something on the SBS machines for blind folks?  They must somewhere, but I never paid attention.  And yes, I know that there are several schools along 23rd street for the disabled, including a popular one for those who use Sign Language.

 

Even if they have Braille, the blind still have to locate the machines. They may not be in the same place at every bus stop.

[N6 Limited]

How come the kneeling feature doesn't lower the back door? Seems like it would make a lot of sense

 

 

Not spec'd in our buses.

 

 

Is it theoretically an available feature? It would make a lot of sense for the SBS buses especially

I was in Swizerland recently and IIRC the entire articulated bus kneeled so I would assume its an available feature.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I was in Switzerland recently and IIRC the entire articulated bus kneeled so I would assume its an available feature.

lol... The Swiss are some of the most backward folks when it comes to technology, so if they have them surely we should. 

[QM1to6Ave]

Its a customer spec that you can ask for. SEPTA has that feature on their buses (New Flyers specifically, not sure about the Novas). Once the front goes all the way down, the bus leans to the right for the back door.

 

I was in Swizerland recently and IIRC the entire articulated bus kneeled so I would assume its an available feature.

 

 I think I'll write in a recommendation that they order it in the future...not that my 1 email will make a difference. 

[BrooklynBus]

If it got SBS service, then the line could likely qualify for federal funding for new artics.  Not only that but the line should be SBS anyway.

Federal funding for new buses is the real reason for choosing the M23. If the process were correctly done, the MTA would show the benefits of the M34 SBS and compare those results with expected results for other crosstowns such as the M14 and M23 and the benefits shown for the M23 would outweigh the benefits for the M14. Those results would be publicly distributed and the planning process would be transparent.

 

But that is not how the MTA operates. What they do is tell you what they decided and ask you to trust them that they made the correct decision because they are the experts. That is one of the problems I have with SBS.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Federal funding for new buses is the real reason for choosing the M23. If the process were correctly done, the MTA would show the benefits of the M34 SBS and compare those results with expected results for other crosstowns such as the M14 and M23 and the benefits shown for the M23 would outweigh the benefits for the M14. Those results would be publicly distributed and the planning process would be transparent.

 

But that is not how the MTA operates. What they do is tell you what they decided and ask you to trust them that they made the correct decision because they are the experts. That is one of the problems I have with SBS.

Well let's face it, SBS is far from perfect, but if we can get some new buses, nicely paved streets and other goodies, I say go for it while the getting is good.  Now that I've been tutoring near Lindenwood and use the QM15 along Woodhaven Blvd., I can see why so many people think that artery is so important, but I can also see why the Q52 and Q53 need SBS service, and they certainly need those artics.  Those little buses just can't handle the crowds.  I also think that we have too many cars on the road, especially now that gas is cheaper and we need to discourage driving. Sorry, but it's true.  I mean this is NYC and unless you live far out somewhere, public transit is the way to go or better yet car pool.  Too many cars on the road with one person in them.

[DetSMART45]

Federal funding for new buses is the real reason for choosing the M23. If the process were correctly done, the MTA would show the benefits of the M34 SBS and compare those results with expected results for other crosstowns such as the M14 and M23 and the benefits shown for the M23 would outweigh the benefits for the M14. Those results would be publicly distributed and the planning process would be transparent.

 

But that is not how the MTA operates. What they do is tell you what they decided and ask you to trust them that they made the correct decision because they are the experts. That is one of the problems I have with SBS.

Becoming more and more apparent this is how it's being implemented.

 

The thing about federal funding, though, is that it's got an ending point.  A couple local fire departments got Homeland Security "grants" that paid for additional manpower for 2 years.  Of course it was ballyhooed, and thought of as great at the time ... but nobody was paying attention to the fact that there was an expiry date of the funding paying for that manpower.  As that came to an end, the media stokes the fires, trying to convince viewers and local residents their town is going to burn down because those extra firefighters are going to be out of a job.

 

Same thing for MTA.  Sure, you can get all those shiny new buses, painted bus lanes and other implementation/running costs subsidized, but eventually, you're going to have to fund everything on your own.  When that day comes, the MTA sure isn't going to let those SBS routes be the fall-guys -- it'll be anything BUT those.  They can't have a whiff of failure or stupid decision-making be associated with SBS at that point.  Remember that when all the other routes have varied "adjustments" applied to them.

 

This fast-and-furious attempt at converting/creating SBS service just reeks of inability to pay for improvements on those routes, so let's just let the Feds pay for things.  They're slating these things too closely behind each other.  It's not about helping customers, it's just a way of shifting costs, instead of doing any actual improving of the current.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Becoming more and more apparent this is how it's being implemented.

 

The thing about federal funding, though, is that it's got an ending point.  A couple local fire departments got Homeland Security "grants" that paid for additional manpower for 2 years.  Of course it was ballyhooed, and thought of as great at the time ... but nobody was paying attention to the fact that there was an expiry date of the funding paying for that manpower.  As that came to an end, the media stokes the fires, trying to convince viewers and local residents their town is going to burn down because those extra firefighters are going to be out of a job.

 

Same thing for MTA.  Sure, you can get all those shiny new buses, painted bus lanes and other implementation/running costs subsidized, but eventually, you're going to have to fund everything on your own.  When that day comes, the MTA sure isn't going to let those SBS routes be the fall-guys -- it'll be anything BUT those.  They can't have a whiff of failure or stupid decision-making be associated with SBS at that point.  Remember that when all the other routes have varied "adjustments" applied to them.

 

This fast-and-furious attempt at converting/creating SBS service just reeks of inability to pay for improvements on those routes, so let's just let the Feds pay for things.  They're slating these things too closely behind each other.  It's not about helping customers, it's just a way of shifting costs, instead of doing any actual improving of the current.

Well yeah quite frankly you're right, but let's face it.  For now I'm fine going along this way and if adjustments are needed, they can be made later on.  Right now we NEED new buses, so I'm all for it.  Aside from that bus service across the city is pathetic, and I for one think that boarding faster will certainly help... That along with signal priority and congestion pricing (down the line).

[DetSMART45]

Well yeah quite frankly you're right, but let's face it.  For now I'm fine going along this way and if adjustments are needed, they can be made later on.  Right now we NEED new buses, so I'm all for it.  Aside from that bus service across the city is pathetic, and I for one think that boarding faster will certainly help... That along with signal priority and congestion pricing (down the line).

Bus service being pathetic is not going to be helped by new buses or funky traffic signals.  SBS is a half-assed imitation of BRT because the streets of NYC won't support a real version.  You could stripe bus lanes endlessly and service will not simply work like magic.  And congestion pricing?  It was supposed to save Central London and lower greenhouse gases, but all it has turned into is a huge PITA, plus the buses belch out far more nitrous oxide than the cars and other vehicles.  All Londoners do is pay to sit in Boris Johnson's traffic jams, instead of not paying before.  New Yorkers would just end up doing the same.

 

People avoid the bus for good reason -- it doesn't run on time so as to fit their schedule needs.  Realistic scheduling needs to be implemented far sooner than putting up huge gantries, painting lanes red (over and over -- increasing maintenance costs) and spending over $100,000 per bus stop ... even if it is funded by the Feds for however long, even if just initially.

 

What's the point in doing all of this when people are going to realize -- eventually -- that nothing has really changed?  The MTA isn't going to be able to keep adding more and more SBS routes to disguise their shortcomings forever.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Bus service being pathetic is not going to be helped by new buses or funky traffic signals.  SBS is a half-assed imitation of BRT because the streets of NYC won't support a real version.  You could stripe bus lanes endlessly and service will not simply work like magic.  And congestion pricing?  It was supposed to save Central London and lower greenhouse gases, but all it has turned into is a huge PITA, plus the buses belch out far more nitrous oxide than the cars and other vehicles.  All Londoners do is pay to sit in Boris Johnson's traffic jams, instead of not paying before.  New Yorkers would just end up doing the same.

 

People avoid the bus for good reason -- it doesn't run on time so as to fit their schedule needs.  Realistic scheduling needs to be implemented far sooner than putting up huge gantries, painting lanes red (over and over -- increasing maintenance costs) and spending over $100,000 per bus stop ... even if it is funded by the Feds for however long, even if just initially.

 

What's the point in doing all of this when people are going to realize -- eventually -- that nothing has really changed?  The MTA isn't going to be able to keep adding more and more SBS routes to disguise their shortcomings forever.

Well I'll tell you one thing... People (as in those with economic pull) are starting to complain about congestion again here in NYC because the situation is worsening drastically, and there are calls for congestion pricing to come back on the table again.  Too many damn people driving in like prima donnas because the gas prices are cheap again.  The traffic levels IMO have surpassed what they were before the economic downturn after 2008.  I counted a good 7 cars with one person on them on the Harlem River Drive this morning before I saw one car with more than one person in it, so clearly there are too many people not using public transit to get into Manhattan, and that has to change.  The question is what is the City going to do about it and when?  Or better yet it may take Cuomo to step in.  This is a serious problem that affects productivity and the region from an economic standpoint when people are stuck for hours in traffic, and this mayor is going to have to do something about it.  I for one am sick of it.  Spent almost 2 hours getting this morning for what is usually a 35-45 minute commute tops.  The other issue is that when people abandon the buses, they have to go somewhere, and that somewhere is the rail system, which becomes overburdened.

 

Another thing that needs to be examined is Uber.  I think they're causing too much traffic as well.  People rave about them, but I don't have too many problems getting yellow taxis when I need to go to business meetings, so I don't know why so many are needed.  Their fleet needs to be capped.  If you combine all of these things along with more traffic changes to certain corridors like 23rd, 34th and 42nd, etc., you'd see drastic improvements in things like SBS service.

[Cait Sith]

Another thing that needs to be examined is Uber.  I think they're causing too much traffic as well.  People rave about them, but I don't have too many problems getting yellow taxis when I need to go to business meetings, so I don't know why so many are needed.  Their fleet needs to be capped.  If you combine all of these things along with more traffic changes to certain corridors like 23rd, 34th and 42nd, etc., you'd see drastic improvements in things like SBS service.

Well, for one, Uber doesn't have their own fleet, the drivers own the vehicles. So in retrospect, it's the drivers that need to be limited, which I very much agree with. Their hiring process is kind of a joke too(I work for an Uber division on the side, I would know) as it just makes everything extremely competitive among drivers/couriers while on the roads, especially during surge pricing. Honestly, it's a mix of Lyft, Uber, Gettit, the rest of those on-demand services & Yellow/Green taxis causing the traffic altogether.

 

They're actually doing something about 34th Street, which had the M4 and Q32 rerouted from there as of November 1st. I believe left turns are FINALLY....FINALLY banned from 34th onto 7th. That in itself made 34th Street a nightmare to drive through, especially with all of the pedestrian traffic.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well, for one, Uber doesn't have their own fleet, the drivers own the vehicles. So in retrospect, it's the drivers that need to be limited, which I very much agree with. Their hiring process is kind of a joke too(I work for an Uber division on the side, I would know) as it just makes everything extremely competitive among drivers/couriers while on the roads, especially during surge pricing. Honestly, it's a mix of Lyft, Uber, Gettit, the rest of those on-demand services & Yellow/Green taxis causing the traffic altogether.

 

They're actually doing something about 34th Street, which had the M4 and Q32 rerouted from there as of November 1st. I believe left turns are FINALLY....FINALLY banned from 34th onto 7th. That in itself made 34th Street a nightmare to drive through, especially with all of the pedestrian traffic.

Yes, I know how Uber works, but yes the number of drivers allowed needs to be capped... The folks that use it love it though.  Every time I have a meeting now some of the folks that I work with immediately call Uber once we're done since they're going back to Brooklyn, and they get a car fairly fast. Always new looking and clean, etc. I may consider using them in the future, but for now I get a yellow taxi within 5 minutes or less unless it's before the shift change so I don't bother.

 

But I would also cap the number of yellow taxis.  Seems to be too many of them too, esp. when you consider how much they're complaining about not getting enough fares.  I actually can get those green taxis too to pick me up in the city, and they're not supposed to. I got one for the last meeting I had Downtown a few weeks ago.  Was walking to Houston and saw one and asked the guy if he would take me up to 33rd for the BxM1 and he went off the meter to do so, so we negoatiated a price and that was it. lol

[DetSMART45]

Multiple transit agencies across the country have mentioned the fact that ridership has dipped since gas prices have fallen.  However, since NYC is one of the most transit-centric cities, that trend should not affect the area as strongly as you describe, and since it has, that shows the willingness of the public to avoid the MTA's services.  That's not those drivers' faults, that's the MTA's.  Uber is simply filling that void as well -- once again, not Uber's fault, or their customers' fault, but the MTA's.

 

The MTA is well aware of Manhattan traffic, stop acting like they just started running these routes in the past year.  If the buses can't get someone where they want to go in a reasonable time, they opt for the subway.  Subway travel has become worse, so what's someone to do?  Go for other surface travel methods.  Guess some people just can't stand MTA's empty promises and lip-service, so they go elsewhere.  And that's somehow not the MTA's doing?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Multiple transit agencies across the country have mentioned the fact that ridership has dipped since gas prices have fallen.  However, since NYC is one of the most transit-centric cities, that trend should not affect the area as strongly as you describe, and since it has, that shows the willingness of the public to avoid the MTA's services.  That's not those drivers' faults, that's the MTA's.  Uber is simply filling that void as well -- once again, not Uber's fault, or their customers' fault, but the MTA's.

 

The MTA is well aware of Manhattan traffic, stop acting like they just started running these routes in the past year.  If the buses can't get someone where they want to go in a reasonable time, they opt for the subway.  Subway travel has become worse, so what's someone to do?  Go for other surface travel methods.  Guess some people just can't stand MTA's empty promises and lip-service, so they go elsewhere.  And that's somehow not the MTA's doing?

Well part of the problem isn't only the but the lack of perceived safety.  Despite what the mayor says, the city doesn't seem safe, and that is forcing some people into their cars (men and women alike) since gas prices are so low.   I have even considered switching up my commute and may start taking Metro-North more often than I do now because there are a lot of crazies out and about and I'm referring to deranged people just out talking to themselves.  Last Saturday I saw one guy talking to himself.  Me and another guy watched him carefully as he paced aimlessly repeating over and over again that "the bus is late".  Our bus was indeed late and since it's the only bus that stops there, we kept our eye on him as he clearly wasn't all there.  Then I had another guy walk right up to me at random, say something that made no sense and then walk away. I can handle myself, but with some of these people, you don't know what they're carrying and what they're capable of, and some folks are just ditching the subways and buses and just driving where possible, and I don't blame them to some extent.  So while part of it is the for not doing more to make service reliable, there's also a safety perception too.  I mean why are people going to take the subway when they're bursting at the seams with deranged people all about?  Why are people going to use the local buses when they show up whenever?  I have completely changed up my commute.  I leave earlier now just to avoid the subway entirely as it is less aggravating.  In the past if traffic was bad, I would jump off of the express bus and take the subway or consider a local bus.  Not anymore. I stay right on the bus I just give myself extra time.

[BrooklynBus]

Well let's face it, SBS is far from perfect, but if we can get some new buses, nicely paved streets and other goodies, I say go for it while the getting is good. Now that I've been tutoring near Lindenwood and use the QM15 along Woodhaven Blvd., I can see why so many people think that artery is so important, but I can also see why the Q52 and Q53 need SBS service, and they certainly need those artics. Those little buses just can't handle the crowds. I also think that we have too many cars on the road, especially now that gas is cheaper and we need to discourage driving. Sorry, but it's true. I mean this is NYC and unless you live far out somewhere, public transit is the way to go or better yet car pool. Too many cars on the road with one person in them.

Those little buses? 60 foot buses aren't exactly little. Until the late 1940s all they had were 40 foot buses like the ones E Broadway used to use. Anyway, they don't put on artics to make the buses less crowded. If that were the case, they wouldn't replace five of those "little" buses with only four artics.

 

Yes we have too many cars on the road, but it is a big leap to say we will have fewer cars just by introducing SBS. DOT and the MTA never even inferred that because they know it won't happen. There are just too many problems with existing bus service and no data to show SBS solved any of them. Also, where is your proof that lower gas prices increased driving. Sure for a few discretionary trips, but someone who has to drive to work will do so regardless of the prices. Why do you think so many drive to Kingsborough? It's because they can do it in 20 minutes while buses take over an hour. Gas would have to be like $20 a gallon before they would take the bus.

 

And Woodhaven Bouevard is "far out somewhere" when you look at their transit options.

 

BRT on Woodhaven only appears to be a good idea on the surface. But when you thoroughly analyze it, the rationale for it falls apart. If they do anything, it should be to fix problem intersections and go back to their original SBS plan with buses in the service roads and allow HOV vehicles to use bus lanes.

 

To DetSMART45: I agree with everything you said.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Those little buses? 60 foot buses aren't exactly little. Until the late 1940s all they had were 40 foot buses like the ones E Broadway used to use. Anyway, they don't put on artics to make the buses less crowded. If that were the case, they wouldn't replace five of those "little" buses with only four artics.

 

Yes we have too many cars on the road, but it is a big leap to say we will have fewer cars just by introducing SBS. DOT and the MTA never even inferred that because they know it won't happen. There are just too many problems with existing bus service and no data to show SBS solved any of them. Also, where is your proof that lower gas prices increased driving. Sure for a few discretionary trips, but someone who has to drive to work will do so regardless of the prices. Why do you think so many drive to Kingsborough? It's because they can do it in 20 minutes while buses take over an hour. Gas would have to be like $20 a gallon before they would take the bus.

 

And Woodhaven Bouevard is "far out somewhere" when you look at their transit options.

 

BRT on Woodhaven only appears to be a good idea on the surface. But when you thoroughly analyze it, the rationale for it falls apart. If they do anything, it should be to fix problem intersections and go back to their original SBS plan with buses in the service roads and allow HOV vehicles to use bus lanes.

 

To DetSMART45: I agree with everything you said.

I was referring to 40 footers when I said those little buses.  Both the Q52 and Q53 NEED artics.  I'm not that naïve to think that SBS alone will get people out of their car.  People can drive as they please but in a city with since limited space, we simply cannot have all of these people driving around ALONE. They have to pay for that privilege because let's face it, in a city as dense as NYC, it is a privilege to drive here, which is why we need some form of congestion pricing.  The transportation options are indeed limited along Woodhaven Blvd which is another issue entirely.  There needs to be more options and more frequent service.  For starters I would expand the QM15 to run later on Saturdays and introduce some form of Sunday service, similar to what the other QM express buses have on Sundays.  Saturdays I would have service run until about 21:00 going to Manhattan and 23:00 to 00:00 back to Lindenwood, but you have to make service more reliable in order for people to use it.  The buses along Woodhaven Blvd are horrible in terms of reliability, which includes the QM15.  Luckily for me I use it at times when it is more reliable but overall the line could be better.  Same goes for the local buses that I see all bunched up.  It certainly wouldn't hurt to have some form of the LIRR around there too.

 

I would be curious to see what else besides SBS the M23 will receive.  There needs to be other modifications along 23rd street to ameliorate the situation overall.

[BrooklynBus]

I was referring to 40 footers when I said those little buses.  Both the Q52 and Q53 NEED artics.  I'm not that naïve to think that SBS alone will get people out of their car.  People can drive as they please but in a city with since limited space, we simply cannot have all of these people driving around ALONE. They have to pay for that privilege because let's face it, in a city as dense as NYC, it is a privilege to drive here, which is why we need some form of congestion pricing.  The transportation options are indeed limited along Woodhaven Blvd which is another issue entirely.  There needs to be more options and more frequent service.  For starters I would expand the QM15 to run later on Saturdays and introduce some form of Sunday service, similar to what the other QM express buses have on Sundays.  Saturdays I would have service run until about 21:00 going to Manhattan and 23:00 to 00:00 back to Lindenwood, but you have to make service more reliable in order for people to use it.  The buses along Woodhaven Blvd are horrible in terms of reliability, which includes the QM15.  Luckily for me I use it at times when it is more reliable but overall the line could be better.  Same goes for the local buses that I see all bunched up.  It certainly wouldn't hurt to have some form of the LIRR around there too.

 

I would be curious to see what else besides SBS the M23 will receive.  There needs to be other modifications along 23rd street to ameliorate the situation overall.

My mistake, I said 60 foot when I meant 40 foot. I know you referred to 40 footers as "little buses". I just thought it was odd calling them little when they are standard size. I meant to say that 40 footers weren't introduced until the late 1940s and until then we used 35 footers like East Broadway used until the 1960s. (Buses were even shorter than 35 feet in the 1920s and 30s.)

 

I agree with you about single driver cars which is why I said HOV vehicles should be allowed in the bus lanes on Woodhaven to encourage car pooling, NYCDOT ruled that out. I am against congestion pricing for reasons I do not want to discuss now. All I will say is that roads are not congested when and where you expect them to be. I drove into Lower Manhattan twice last year. I drove across Canal Street at 8 AM on a weekday morning on my way upstate. It took about 5 minutes. No congestion at all. The other time was across Houston and Broome Streets on a Saturday afternoon at 1 PM, this time on my way to New Jersey. That trip took between 45 minutes and an hour. How was I to know? I bet other drivers were also surpised. I won't do that again.

 

Regarding two trips in midtown during the evening rush hour. Once I drove along a street in the low 60s from the Queensboro all the way to 5th Avenue with all green lights. Took around five minutes around 6 PM on a weekday. Another time around 7 PM I was stuck for 45 minutes between 65 Street and 60 Street on Second Avenue. So it is difficult to predict traffic congestion and just penalizing everyone who drives in Manhattan with congestion pricing is unfair, when you coud just as easily be in severe congestion in the other boroughs also.

[bobtehpanda]

My mistake, I said 60 foot when I meant 40 foot. I know you referred to 40 footers as "little buses". I just thought it was odd calling them little when they are standard size. I meant to say that 40 footers weren't introduced until the late 1940s and until then we used 35 footers like East Broadway used until the 1960s. (Buses were even shorter than 35 feet in the 1920s and 30s.)

 

I agree with you about single driver cars which is why I said HOV vehicles should be allowed in the bus lanes on Woodhaven to encourage car pooling, NYCDOT ruled that out. I am against congestion pricing for reasons I do not want to discuss now. All I will say is that roads are not congested when and where you expect them to be. I drove into Lower Manhattan twice last year. I drove across Canal Street at 8 AM on a weekday morning on my way upstate. It took about 5 minutes. No congestion at all. The other time was across Houston and Broome Streets on a Saturday afternoon at 1 PM, this time on my way to New Jersey. That trip took between 45 minutes and an hour. How was I to know? I bet other drivers were also surpised. I won't do that again.

 

Regarding two trips in midtown during the evening rush hour. Once I drove along a street in the low 60s from the Queensboro all the way to 5th Avenue with all green lights. Took around five minutes around 6 PM on a weekday. Another time around 7 PM I was stuck for 45 minutes between 65 Street and 60 Street on Second Avenue. So it is difficult to predict traffic congestion and just penalizing everyone who drives in Manhattan with congestion pricing is unfair, when you coud just as easily be in severe congestion in the other boroughs also.

 

Of course they would rule it out. How would you enforce the HOV restriction on a street lane that has access points every few hundred feet? The LIE only has them because there aren't that many access points, and this limited number of points can be watched over very effectively with a minimal police presence.

 

Traffic congestion has negative externalities; pollution of the air and noise, taking up valuable capacity, etc. The main point of congestion pricing is to move that to where impacts would be less (the highways that go around Manhattan) as opposed to where impacts would be greater (neighborhoods like Chinatown and LIC filled with cut-through drivers); congestion in Manhattan costs much more than congestion on the SIE or the George Washington Bridge or the Throgs Neck.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I was referring to 40 footers when I said those little buses.  Both the Q52 and Q53 NEED artics.  I'm not that naïve to think that SBS alone will get people out of their car.  People can drive as they please but in a city with since limited space, we simply cannot have all of these people driving around ALONE. They have to pay for that privilege because let's face it, in a city as dense as NYC, it is a privilege to drive here, which is why we need some form of congestion pricing.  The transportation options are indeed limited along Woodhaven Blvd which is another issue entirely.  There needs to be more options and more frequent service.  For starters I would expand the QM15 to run later on Saturdays and introduce some form of Sunday service, similar to what the other QM express buses have on Sundays.  Saturdays I would have service run until about 21:00 going to Manhattan and 23:00 to 00:00 back to Lindenwood, but you have to make service more reliable in order for people to use it.  The buses along Woodhaven Blvd are horrible in terms of reliability, which includes the QM15.  Luckily for me I use it at times when it is more reliable but overall the line could be better.  Same goes for the local buses that I see all bunched up.  It certainly wouldn't hurt to have some form of the LIRR around there too.

 

I would be curious to see what else besides SBS the M23 will receive.  There needs to be other modifications along 23rd street to ameliorate the situation overall.

While I would agree with added QM15 Weekend service, I do not believe the QM15 should resemble the spans of the other QM's. The last bus to Midtown I guess would be at 9:00 PM, and returning at 10:35 PM. That should be sufficient. 

 

As for Sunday Service, I would run it from 9 AM to 6 PM to Midtown, 9:49 AM to 6:49 PM to Lindenwood.

Regarding two trips in midtown during the evening rush hour. Once I drove along a street in the low 60s from the Queensboro all the way to 5th Avenue with all green lights. Took around five minutes around 6 PM on a weekday. Another time around 7 PM I was stuck for 45 minutes between 65 Street and 60 Street on Second Avenue. So it is difficult to predict traffic congestion and just penalizing everyone who drives in Manhattan with congestion pricing is unfair, when you coud just as easily be in severe congestion in the other boroughs also.

 

It's generally easier to predict during the rush, but it can be a hit or miss during midday hours, especially on 57 Street and other thoroughfares leading to/from any of the bridges or tunnels. 23 Street though, shouldn't be that bad outside the rush hour though. For most of the express buses that utilize it, 5 Avenue is the main culprit of delays.