R211 Discussion Thread

[Calvin]

1 hour ago, darkstar8983 said:

That’s a good question. Didn’t the R179s have 3 test trains (3010-3019 / 3050-3057 / 3058-3065)?

Yes, those are the test trains. 

[R32 3838]

3 hours ago, FLX9304 said:

You mean 4070-4099. They’re in 0-4 & 5-9 format, similar to the first 40 R179s 3010-3049. 

Yeah that's what i meant, i keep forgetting that the numbers start from 0-4,5-9

It looks like the R211S would be 100-174, Looking closely that's car 100.

 

Also I do think the Op 1 cars would start at 3400 since the R32's are no longer in the system and any that is for work service would have 1 added to their numbers like the 10 former work cars. Op II I believe would start from 5210-5609 or 4500-4904, 4905-4937 (8 car units)

 

So The R211 numbers could be this :

Base Order: R211T: 4040-4059

Base Order R211A:4060-4499

Base order R211S: 100-174

Option Order I: 3400-4059

Option Order II: 4500-4904 (5 car units) 4905-4937 (8 car units)

 

This would be the most realistic unless option order I starts at 4500-4999 (500 cars) 3400-3539 (140 cars) or 5205-5344

5345-5749, 5750-5782 would also be open with option order II since all the R46s would be gone by then. So it's a toss up with the R32 numbers or former R44 and R46 numbers.

2 hours ago, U-BahnNYC said:

So with all these production cars sitting around, what's stopping a different set from doing a 30-day test? I mean the pilot was the first to be built so of course it's going to have the most issues. 

 

The whole point of the pilot set is to troubleshoot all the issues so they can apply the fixes to the production cars. They pretty much built the production cars before the pilot set entered service so this way if the pilot car issues are fixed, They'll do the fixes on the fly on the first 40-60 production cars built on NYCT property most likely.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by R32 3838

[FLX9304]

1 hour ago, R32 3838 said:

Yeah that's what i meant, i keep forgetting that the numbers start from 0-4,5-9

It looks like the R211S would be 100-174, Looking closely that's car 100.

 

Also I do think the Op 1 cars would start at 3400 since the R32's are no longer in the system and any that is for work service would have 1 added to their numbers like the 10 former work cars. Op II I believe would start from 5210-5609 or 4500-4904, 4905-4937 (8 car units)

 

So The R211 numbers could be this :

Base Order: R211T: 4040-4059

Base Order R211A:4060-4499

Base order R211S: 100-174

Option Order I: 3400-4059

Option Order II: 4500-4904 (5 car units) 4905-4937 (8 car units)

 

This would be the most realistic unless option order I starts at 4500-4999 (500 cars) 3400-3539 (140 cars) or 5205-5344

5345-5749, 5750-5782 would also be open with option order II since all the R46s would be gone by then. So it's a toss up with the R32 numbers or former R44 and R46 numbers.

 

The whole point of the pilot set is to troubleshoot all the issues so they can apply the fixes to the production cars. They pretty much built the production cars before the pilot set entered service so this way if the pilot car issues are fixed, They'll do the fixes on the fly on the first 40-60 production cars built on NYCT property most likely.

 

 

 

 

 

You have 3400-4059 as option 1 numbers, shouldn’t it 3400-4039 since 4040-4059 belong to R211T? Ok. Now I see they wanna start SIR’s R211s with 100s instead of overlapping with the older TA’s numbers like yesteryear’s fleets. SIRT had 400-466, then got 388-399 from the TA in 1990. These cars were the only ones that was not renumbered into the 52/53/54xx when they were rebuilt 

[R32 3838]

25 minutes ago, FLX9304 said:

You have 3400-4059 as option 1 numbers, shouldn’t it 3400-4039 since 4040-4059 belong to R211T? Ok. Now I see they wanna start SIR’s R211s with 100s instead of overlapping with the older TA’s numbers like yesteryear’s fleets. SIRT had 400-466, then got 388-399 from the TA in 1990. These cars were the only ones that was not renumbered into the 52/53/54xx when they were rebuilt 

Damn that''s another mistake on my end. I meant to put 439 but typed 4059 by mistake

 

1 hour ago, R32 3838 said:

Yeah that's what i meant, i keep forgetting that the numbers start from 0-4,5-9

It looks like the R211S would be 100-174, Looking closely that's car 100.

 

Also I do think the Op 1 cars would start at 3400 since the R32's are no longer in the system and any that is for work service would have 1 added to their numbers like the 10 former work cars. Op II I believe would start from 5210-5609 or 4500-4904, 4905-4937 (8 car units)

 

So The R211 numbers could be this :

Base Order: R211T: 4040-4039

Base Order R211A:4060-4499

Base order R211S: 100-174

Option Order I: 3400-4039

Option Order II: 4500-4904 (5 car units) 4905-4937 (8 car units)

 

This would be the most realistic unless option order I starts at 4500-4999 (500 cars) 3400-3539 (140 cars) or 5205-5344

5345-5749, 5750-5782 would also be open with option order II since all the R46s would be gone by then. So it's a toss up with the R32 numbers or former R44 and R46 numbers.

 

The whole point of the pilot set is to troubleshoot all the issues so they can apply the fixes to the production cars. They pretty much built the production cars before the pilot set entered service so this way if the pilot car issues are fixed, They'll do the fixes on the fly on the first 40-60 production cars built on NYCT property most likely.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited for Corrected numbers

[FLX9304]

1 minute ago, R32 3838 said:

Damn that''s another mistake on my end. I meant to put 439 but typed 4059 by mistake

 

Edited for Corrected numbers

But I like your idea about the numbering. Numbers are determined on the out window of the car. I saw how they want their numbers too look like. A larger plate would be for NYCTA, while a smaller plate would be for SIR. None plates are for railroad (but that’s another story). 
Q: How many subway cars has Kawasaki produced for NYCTA since this year is the 40th anniversary of the first car produced for the ? 

[Vulturious]

I assume this is Burn-In testing, but I could be wrong. Interesting they're running this as half set, too. 

[RedLine]

No

[RandomRider0101]

32 minutes ago, Vulturious said:

I assume this is Burn-In testing, but I could be wrong. Interesting they're running this as half set, too. 

If it were burn-in testing, it would show a route bullet along with the train information; and it would run as a full train.

[FLX9304]

4 hours ago, RandomRider0101 said:

If it were burn-in testing, it would show a route bullet along with the train information; and it would run as a full train.

They ran a full train with train info and passenger info yesterday on the . Once that full length gets back to the yard, then they’ll use the steps to be needed in order for that train to be ready for its first 30 day passenger service testing, by then, 100 cars have been built already. Once the train enters service, 4070-4079 will come in and to a burner, and the rest will follow. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by FLX9304

[RandomRider0101]

17 hours ago, FLX9304 said:

They ran a full train with train info and passenger info yesterday on the . Once that full length gets back to the yard, then they’ll use the steps to be needed in order for that train to be ready for its first 30 day passenger service testing, by then, 100 cars have been built already. Once the train enters service, 4070-4079 will come in and to a burner, and the rest will follow. 

I'll be happy once the train finally enters service. It's been long overdue, so it better be worth the wait. 

[U-BahnNYC]

20 hours ago, FLX9304 said:

They ran a full train with train info and passenger info yesterday on the . Once that full length gets back to the yard, then they’ll use the steps to be needed in order for that train to be ready for its first 30 day passenger service testing, by then, 100 cars have been built already. Once the train enters service, 4070-4079 will come in and to a burner, and the rest will follow. 

If this is true that would be wonderful. The  badly needs new rolling stock. I'd call it a success if at least 10 R211 sets are in service on the by year the fall. 

[subwaycommuter1983]

4 minutes ago, U-BahnNYC said:

If this is true that would be wonderful. The  badly needs new rolling stock. I'd call it a success if at least 10 R211 sets are in service on the by year the fall. 

Possibly more if the labor issues with Kawasaki are solved. I hope that the r211's are placed on the A before the C.

[U-BahnNYC]

2 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

Possibly more if the labor issues with Kawasaki are solved. I hope that the r211's are placed on the A before the C.

I think it's a no-brainer for them to go on the  before any are placed on the . The not only sees much higher ridership, it runs 24/7, and it currently has an abysmally low spare factor. 

The  can get whatever R46s are displaced from the  for now. 

I mean I'm not familiar with how the fleet is dispatched but the R179 10-car sets never run on the  if that is any indicator of what will happen with the 211's

[RandomRider0101]

2 hours ago, U-BahnNYC said:

I think it's a no-brainer for them to go on the  before any are placed on the . The not only sees much higher ridership, it runs 24/7, and it currently has an abysmally low spare factor. 

The  can get whatever R46s are displaced from the  for now. 

I mean I'm not familiar with how the fleet is dispatched but the R179 10-car sets never run on the  if that is any indicator of what will happen with the 211's

The 10-car R179s don't run on the because they currently run 8-car R179s; it would cause extra confusion for the riders and possibly the operators, with riders not knowing the length of the train quickly enough and operators forgetting where to stop. They have to remove the 4 car sets first before they can start running the 5 car sets there.

[Around the Horn]

They've already had R211s run simulated service on the for thermal capacity testing over the summer so it wouldn't surprise me to see production sets on the occasionally as they phase out the R46s. I could see them doing that particularly on weekends like how the used to borrow a few R160s from the and to give some of the Jamaica R46s a rest before 2020.

[Vulturious]

48 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

They've already had R211s run simulated service on the for thermal capacity testing over the summer so it wouldn't surprise me to see production sets on the occasionally as they phase out the R46s. I could see them doing that particularly on weekends like how the used to borrow a few R160s from the and to give some of the Jamaica R46s a rest before 2020.

It's also more possible that they will run along the  due to, if I'm not mistaken, the R46's being shared between both the  and . It's really not that much of a stretch.

[RandomRider0101]

35 minutes ago, Vulturious said:

It's also more possible that they will run along the  due to, if I'm not mistaken, the R46's being shared between both the  and . It's really not that much of a stretch.

Exactly; once the goes 100% full length, they'll be able to share & swap any cars with the when needed.

 

[JustTheSIR]

10 hours ago, RandomRider0101 said:

The 10-car R179s don't run on the because they currently run 8-car R179s; it would cause extra confusion for the riders and possibly the operators, with riders not knowing the length of the train quickly enough and operators forgetting where to stop. They have to remove the 4 car sets first before they can start running the 5 car sets there.

Why would it bother riders?

[FLX9304]

25 minutes ago, JustTheSIR said:

Why would it bother riders?

I’ve seen full length R46s run on the  during the weekday hours. Remember: the  only has 84 8 car R179s, which only makes 10 trains. For the  to get full service, it has to get the R46s from the . Once 8th Ave goes fully CBTC, then you can see a sea of New techs running up & down the  and . 

[Calvin]

5 hours ago, FLX9304 said:

I’ve seen full length R46s run on the  during the weekday hours. Remember: the  only has 84 8 car R179s, which only makes 10 trains. For the  to get full service, it has to get the R46s from the . Once 8th Ave goes fully CBTC, then you can see a sea of New techs running up & down the  and . 

Make that 11 8 car trains with a 4-car spare (92 cars). 3146-3149 was given to the  from the  to have a somewhat spare factor. 

Although, they use entirely the whole 84 cars in-service with 1/2 of their amount as R46s from the pool that you mentioned. It's confusing at times like Fulton St seeing a crowd run a few feet from the  passageway past the silver bar due to the missing length that fills up the platform. 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Calvin

[Kamen Rider]

6 hours ago, JustTheSIR said:

Why would it bother riders?

because, to quote a certain railway controller, it can cause confusion and delay. 

More than once I have worked an 8 car train of 60's where the T/O pulled up to the 10 car marker. We have to treat that as a bad stop. 

[JustTheSIR]

1 hour ago, Kamen Rider said:

because, to quote a certain railway controller, it can cause confusion and delay. 

More than once I have worked an 8 car train of 60's where the T/O pulled up to the 10 car marker. We have to treat that as a bad stop. 

Were they trained for 8 car 60 footers? Or was it just that they were working on the R46 too long and took 8 cars as 75 feet long

[Vulturious]

14 minutes ago, JustTheSIR said:

Were they trained for 8 car 60 footers? Or was it just that they were working on the R46 too long and took 8 cars as 75 feet long

I doubt a lot of T/O's care much about how long a train car is and immediately go with whatever they remembered off the top of their head. The reason why it's considered a bad stop is most likely due to the C/R boards or lack there of. Conductors on an 8 car 60 feet train wouldn't be at the same position as those in a 10 car 60 feet/8 car 75 feet, especially if there aren't any separate stop markers.

If I'm not mistaken, this being an issue back when the  ran along Concourse for a couple of weekends, they had to call in RCC (or whatever, I can't remember) to tell them they don't have a lineup to the board because there were none. Conductors have to call in to make sure they're safe to open the doors, otherwise, something could happen and it's on them.

[RandomRider0101]

7 hours ago, JustTheSIR said:

Why would it bother riders?

Like I stated in the previous post, it would cause confusion among riders and operators. Riders who are standing at the far ends of the platforms already have to jog when a shorter train pulls into the station.

Average riders who use the regularly might know by now that the newer trains are shorter and the older trains are longer. If the were using the 8 car r179s and the 10 car r179s at the same time, riders wouldn't know until the train pulls all the way into the station.

I haven't even gotten to the operators yet; they might also forget whether they're operating an 8 car train or a 10 car train, which would be very problematic. This is why they need to move those 8 car trains off the as soon as they have enough r211s in service.

 

[Around the Horn]

12 hours ago, JustTheSIR said:

Why would it bother riders?

Trains stopping in different positions depending on the consist becomes an operations nightmare very quickly...

Its why the R40s and R42s got removed from the in 2008. They only had door panels in the #2 ends of each car which in an 8 car consist means you have to operate in 5/3 instead of 4/4. train stations did not have conductor boards set up for 5/3 so R40/R42 consists had to stop at the 10 car markers while R32s and R38s continued to stop at the 8.

The current situation with a clear visual difference between the two fleets is not ideal but manageable in the short term.