R211 Discussion Thread

[MJHmarc]

30 minutes ago, BreeddekalbL said:

Supposedly the Mr Davie is saying they should let the bidding be more open. 

Alstom knocking on the door. 

[Ale188]

33 minutes ago, BreeddekalbL said:

Supposedly the Mr Davie is saying they should let the bidding be more open. 

What bidding?

[MJHmarc]

18 minutes ago, Ale188 said:

What bidding?

“At this week’s MTA board meeting, MTA Chair Janno Lieber called for more competition in the railcar market. He noted a federal mandate requires the MTA to buy U.S.-made train cars. Only two U.S.-based companies manufacture the train cars: Kawasaki, which has plants in Nebraska and Yonkers, and Alstom, which acquired Bombardier in 2021.

“We really have to be taking action to grow the competitive market for rail cars and buses,” Lieber said.”

 

https://gothamist.com/news/mtas-gleaming-new-subway-cars-taken-out-of-service-for-faulty-gearboxes-flat-wheels?fbclid=IwAR0Z6xFpwNW5DN-YNAT_hELxYYHoYa3bnFP6Nm5AWkamMGd3OfE5i5RuPzk_aem_AaEzpOv2XcJ11cblJyJgwwah8tELjJGboBO8Q3ddgClgpFXFC03U8MbRasrcP6Qv2Kg

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by MJHmarc
Answering the question about bidding.

[Kamen Rider]

Oh, so they finally admitted to something we’ve know about for over a week…

[nikitos6712]

On 10/22/2023 at 9:23 PM, Metro CSW said:

Also 4200 has reached the Lincoln Plant. Might be here by February. Neat.

Confirmed?

[Kamen Rider]

Some days I wonder if it would be easier if we just built the damn things in house…

Come to think of it… Create more local jobs, create the possibility of bidding on contracts from other agencies.

not that bad an idea.

[ArchytectAnthony]

1 hour ago, Kamen Rider said:

Some days I wonder if it would be easier if we just built the damn things in house…

Come to think of it… Create more local jobs, create the possibility of bidding on contracts from other agencies.

not that bad an idea.

Yeah I also have the same feeling for things like station renovations, installing cbtc, trackwork etc.

Imo, I feel like the mta relies so much on contractors for everything that it feels like the mta doesn't even do anything in house. Especially when relying on them too much can and has caused many issues and delays in various projects from what I can tell. (Not to mention corruption lol).

[slantfan4281]

A few questions:

1. Could the truck issues mean that Kawasaki will switch back to R160 style trucks for the rest of the fleet?

2. I saw a video of the R211S testing on SI - are the 5 pilot cars for that using the same trucks as 4060-9?

3. Does the R211T use the same trucks as the R211A pilot set?

[Kamen Rider]

38 minutes ago, slantfan4281 said:

A few questions:

1. Could the truck issues mean that Kawasaki will switch back to R160 style trucks for the rest of the fleet?

2. I saw a video of the R211S testing on SI - are the 5 pilot cars for that using the same trucks as 4060-9?

3. Does the R211T use the same trucks as the R211A pilot set?

1: depends on how severe the issue actually is.

2 & 3: rolling stock not on the active roster is not a serious priority. If they have been inspected and found not to have the cracks, they can still go through testing.

[zacster]

3 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

1: depends on how severe the issue actually is.

2 & 3: rolling stock not on the active roster is not a serious priority. If they have been inspected and found not to have the cracks, they can still go through testing.

It would be in the MTA's best interest to make sure these are fixed at the same time as the others, if they have the newer trucks.  Since they are all pilot sets it is possible they don't have them. 

[Calvin]

There won't be any new trainsets (recent one was 4100-4109) to enter service on the line for now. Currently, 4130-4139 are set for service however, this was push back until a solution has been made.  

Also, the married pairs R46 are running on the  minus a few cars in storage. 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Calvin

[shiznit1987]

7 hours ago, ArchytectAnthony said:

Yeah I also have the same feeling for things like station renovations, installing cbtc, trackwork etc.

Imo, I feel like the mta relies so much on contractors for everything that it feels like the mta doesn't even do anything in house. Especially when relying on them too much can and has caused many issues and delays in various projects from what I can tell. (Not to mention corruption lol).

Construction and signaling should definitely be in house. If the MTA had an in-house construction agency like WMATA did during their boom years of the 1970s to 1990s I bet alot more could get built. Railcar manufacturing is too sporadic to be effective in house. There's a big order at best every 10 years but in some cases there's been 20 year gaps in purchases. 

[ABOGbrooklyn]

How severe is the R211 issue?

[Kamen Rider]

4 hours ago, ABOGbrooklyn said:

How severe is the R211 issue?

As far as I’m aware, there aren’t any DoCE people who hang out here. We’d have to ask them for a direct answer.

[Kamen Rider]

12 hours ago, shiznit1987 said:

. Railcar manufacturing is too sporadic to be effective in house. There's a big order at best every 10 years but in some cases there's been 20 year gaps in purchases. 

The idea then is to bid for other agencies contracts when not working on our own.

[Ale188]

On 10/26/2023 at 1:41 PM, MJHmarc said:

“At this week’s MTA board meeting, MTA Chair Janno Lieber called for more competition in the railcar market. He noted a federal mandate requires the MTA to buy U.S.-made train cars. Only two U.S.-based companies manufacture the train cars: Kawasaki, which has plants in Nebraska and Yonkers, and Alstom, which acquired Bombardier in 2021.

“We really have to be taking action to grow the competitive market for rail cars and buses,” Lieber said.”

 

https://gothamist.com/news/mtas-gleaming-new-subway-cars-taken-out-of-service-for-faulty-gearboxes-flat-wheels?fbclid=IwAR0Z6xFpwNW5DN-YNAT_hELxYYHoYa3bnFP6Nm5AWkamMGd3OfE5i5RuPzk_aem_AaEzpOv2XcJ11cblJyJgwwah8tELjJGboBO8Q3ddgClgpFXFC03U8MbRasrcP6Qv2Kg

 

Ya sure? Cuz suburban transit authorities are doin way better. Heh, 6666th post. Scary, but still did it anyway.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Ale188

[Chris89292]

So is the issue still on going or are the crews lazy to fix it, it’ll take 4 months 

[Kamen Rider]

57 minutes ago, Chris89292 said:

So is the issue still on going or are the crews lazy to fix it, it’ll take 4 months 

first of all, please keep in mind, when you work for transit, you work for a massive bureaucracy with about 55,000 employees. Just because something doesn’t occur with the snap of a finger doesn’t mean people are being lazy. That’s really rude to say about some pretty hard working people.

 

that being said, this is not transit’s issue to worry about, but Kawasaki’s. They made the mistake, the cars are under warranty, this is all on them. 
 

this is like getting one of those automotive recall notices in the mail. 

[Lawrence St]

According to some people, 100-104 and 4060-4069 have the original pilot trucks which is why they don't have issues.

[shiznit1987]

8 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

The idea then is to bid for other agencies contracts when not working on our own.

It sounds tempting, but only SF DC Chicago and Boston have systems of a size and scope to make it worthwhile. Remember that Alstom, Siemens and Kawasaki are all conglomerates with multiple endeavors other that heavy rail car manufacturing. It's a huge lift to have to put up the immense upfront capital costs of a manufacturing facility and retain the thousands of employees to excecute 500-1000+ car orders. 

What we should do is drop the Buy America nonsense and purchase off the shelf designs that have been working around the world for decades rather than MTA management demanding that we reinvent the wheel because "New York is special"

[U-BahnNYC]

7 hours ago, shiznit1987 said:

It sounds tempting, but only SF DC Chicago and Boston have systems of a size and scope to make it worthwhile. Remember that Alstom, Siemens and Kawasaki are all conglomerates with multiple endeavors other that heavy rail car manufacturing. It's a huge lift to have to put up the immense upfront capital costs of a manufacturing facility and retain the thousands of employees to excecute 500-1000+ car orders. 

What we should do is drop the Buy America nonsense and purchase off the shelf designs that have been working around the world for decades rather than MTA management demanding that we reinvent the wheel because "New York is special"

"Buy American" is not nonsense - that type of thinking just leads to more outsourcing which is horrible for the economy in the long run and is objectively seen as a policy failure nowadays.

The problem is why are only two vendors capable of building trains for the MTA?

[ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ]

On 10/28/2023 at 10:23 AM, ArchytectAnthony said:

Yeah I also have the same feeling for things like station renovations, installing cbtc, trackwork etc.

Imo, I feel like the mta relies so much on contractors for everything that it feels like the mta doesn't even do anything in house. Especially when relying on them too much can and has caused many issues and delays in various projects from what I can tell. (Not to mention corruption lol).

Ye. If MTA were a smaller transit system, then maintaining an in-house team would be harder since you might have large gaps without anything major needing to be done, but given how expansive NYC subway is you're almost always somewhere in the cycle of replacing subway cars and at least a few stations are being renovated or getting elevators.

Maintaining and in-house team for larger construction projects may be more difficult since there can be large gaps where no major subway (or MTA) expansion project is actively being built.

[Comrade96]

14 hours ago, Chris89292 said:

So is the issue still on going or are the crews lazy to fix it, it’ll take 4 months 

with all due respect, keep your mouth shut on things you know nothing about

[TheNewYorkElevated]

I saw a post on Instagram that showed that the pilot set 4060-4069 is back in service on the .

[MJHmarc]

4 minutes ago, TheNewYorkElevated said:

I saw a post on Instagram that showed that the pilot set 4060-4069 is back in service on the .

That set has not stopped running.