Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[TMC]

2 hours ago, Theli11 said:

Yeah but you'd be making people transfer to a downtown train if they need to go further down. Why take Metro North if they can just take 1 train right where you need to go. 

Sucks for them, unfortunately, the potential cost of a 3rd Avenue Subway (both El and subway) doesn't have benefits high enough to pencil. The fact that MNR exists right there hurts the subway proposal, because the demand just isn't there. There are better uses of capacity on the East Side of Manhattan than going up 3rd Avenue in the Bronx.

[Amiri the subway guy]

2 hours ago, Theli11 said:

Yeah but you'd be making people transfer to a downtown train if they need to go further down. Why take Metro North if they can just take 1 train right where you need to go. 

My point exactly 

[TMC]

26 minutes ago, TMC said:

Sucks for them, unfortunately, the potential cost of a 3rd Avenue Subway (both El and subway) doesn't have benefits high enough to pencil. The fact that MNR exists right there hurts the subway proposal, because the demand just isn't there. There are better uses of capacity on the East Side of Manhattan than going up 3rd Avenue in the Bronx.

I think 3rd Avenue in Manhattan is something to consider, over 2nd Avenue. Essentially, keep SAS 1 & 2, but Phases 3 and 4 are replaced by a subway along 3rd Avenue from 63rd Street to Houston Street. North of 63rd Street, the line would turn to run under Central Park, then veer onto Frederick Douglass Blvd, running nonstop to 11t0th Street, then 125th Street. North of there, it would meet with CPW, using the layup tracks at 135th Street, and replacing C service north of 145th Street (The C would become an express running up to 207th Street with the A). North of 168th Street, it would use the GWB to run to Fort Lee, and Paterson along NJ-4. This is a much better use of capacity than 3rd Avenue in the Bronx. It doesn't reverse-branch or cut capacity, and it serves a useful place that hasn't been served by any rapid transit yet.  

[Amiri the subway guy]

Here’s an idea extend the metro north to lower Manhattan. The station would be 14th street canal street city hall and Fulton street This is just a proposal please don’t take this too seriously

[Theli11]

4 hours ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

Here’s an idea extend the metro north to lower Manhattan. The station would be 14th street canal street city hall and Fulton street This is just a proposal please don’t take this too seriously

Is there any space of the Metro North left on Lower Manhattan?

[TMC]

On 7/17/2023 at 3:34 PM, Amiri the subway guy said:

Here’s an idea extend the metro north to lower Manhattan. The station would be 14th street canal street city hall and Fulton street This is just a proposal please don’t take this too seriously

This is a good idea, but there should only be stations at Union Square and Fulton Street, along with an extension under the harbor to link with the Staten Island Railway, tying it into a regional rail system. This is the easiest tunnel to build by far, compared to one from Brooklyn. 

[TMC]

19 hours ago, Theli11 said:

Is there any space of the Metro North left on Lower Manhattan?

A station in Lower Manhattan is possible, but very difficult. If costs weren't inflated as much as they are now, it should be around $1B to construct Fulton Street alone (4 tracks, 2 for MNR, 2 for a LIRR extension through Lower Manhattan from the Atlantic Branch, via Pavonia, connecting to the NJT Hoboken Division)

[Vulturious]

Back at it again with crazy proposals, I thought about what if a connection from the Brooklyn-Broadway (or is it the other way around? Doesn't matter) were to have a connection to the Broadway line heading uptown. 

Essentially a connection is made through the current active tracks along the Nassau St line with a new tunnel built cutting off the connection to the northbound tracks from Canal St keeping the southbound tracks intact. Basically the same thing occurs along Broadway with another Canal St style cut north of the switches between local and express. This next bit is pretty much optional, but I decided to include widening the area along the line to allow a connection between Prince St and Broadway-Lafayette St to allow for one last transfer between the express and local trains along Broadway. Obviously, Eastern Division is going to see platform extensions under this scenario because them sticking with the 8 car 60 footers while along Broadway Express is going to be atrocious.

New routing patterns follows (bear with me as I'll explain below why this is):
-  Bedford Park Blvd/145 St to Coney Island [Concourse Peak Local, CPW Local, 6 Av Express, via Manhattan Bridge, 4 Av Express, West End Local]
-  Norwood-205 St to Coney Island [Concourse Peak Express, CPW/6 Av Express, via Manhattan Bridge, Brighton Local]
-  Norwood-205 St to Brighton Beach [Concourse Peak Express, CPW/6 Av Express, via Manhattan Bridge, Brighton Express]
-  Jamaica-179 St to Coney Island [Hillside Av Local, QBL Express, via 63 St, 6 Av Local, South Brooklyn Express, Culver Local]
-  Forest Hills-71 Av to Church Av [QBL Local, via 53 St, 6 Av Local, South Brooklyn Local]
-  Jamaica Center to Bay Ridge-95 St [QBL Express, via 53 St, 8 Av Local, via Montague St, 4 Av Local]
- (Yellow) 96 St-2 Av to Jamaica Center [2 Av Local, Broadway Express, via Williamsburg Bridge, Brooklyn-Broadway Peak Express, Jamaica Av Local]
- (Yellow) 96 St-2 Av to Metropolitan Av [2 Av Local, Broadway Express, via Williamsburg Bridge, Brooklyn-Broadway Local, Myrtle Av Local]
-  Astoria-Ditmars Blvd to Coney Island [Astoria Local, via 60 St, Broadway Local, via Manhattan Bridge, 4 Av Express, Sea Beach Local]
-  Forest Hills-71 Av to City Hall [QBL Local, via 60 st, Broadway Local]

I decided to get rid of the  and  since more people know the  and  along the Eastern division especially since the  would no longer be running along Brighton, might as well not keep it around. Now for how the  is running into Brooklyn to begin with, a new connection is made to cover for the lack  service. I wanted to keep  routing short since it's just too long honestly and just isn't reliable. As for the service in South Brooklyn, because of the lack of Broadway service along, I decided to swap around the  and  to basically be what they used to be during the 90's with basically the  running around as the , but got rid of it the Q's name since there's no need in keeping it around. I would've had the  running around on Brighton, but I decided keeping the flexibility between 3 different trunk lines running around along 4 Av, the  and .

Service patterns follows:
-  Rush hours to Bedford Park Blvd, weekdays to 145 St, weekends to 96 St replacing (yellow) trains, late nights to Atlantic Av-Barclays Center express along 4 Av
-  Rush hours peak express in the Bronx,  trains run weekdays only
-  Hillside Av Express during rush hours, local during weekends and late nights
-  Hillside Av Local during rush hours, in service weekdays only
-  Current service pattern
- (Yellow) Peak express along Brooklyn-Broadway during rush hours, late nights local in Manhattan
- (Yellow) Current service pattern
-  Late nights local in Brooklyn stays running along Manhattan Bridge
-  Late night single track shuttle between Canal St and City Hall.

[Wallyhorse]

And the part is a relatively easy switch, in this case, digging up the short stretch from the Chambers terminal on the current route to where the Montague Street line meets it north of Cortlandt.  This is something that could have been done originally in 1966 when the whole area of "Radio Row" was cleared out and again after 9/11.  This may require some minor reconstruction of the PATH station but it would be worth it.  In this, the platform at Chambers likely is de-activated for the new stop at Cortlandt.

As for the rest:

The and  becoming yellow and running via Broadway express and the SAS is an interesting idea, especially with if they then build the connection I have previously suggestion connecting on an extension of Phase 2 to 125-Broadway a connection to the 8th Avenue Line at St. Nicholas Avenue that would give both lines access to Concourse and 207th Street yards.  Such a move might also prompt extending all stations in the Eastern Division to at least 540 feet (allowing for nine-car trains) if not 600 feet and 10-car trains.  It could also be done where in this scenario the  goes to 125-Broadway and to Bedford Park Boulevard with the  (and the going with the to 168).  As I would do it:

All times from Brighton Beach (extended nights and weekends from Coney Island) to 145th Street (peak hours to Bedford Park Boulevard), if connections from the SAS allow those lines to run via Councourse then this runs full-time to 168.

 and as is run now. 

 as is run now except extended to 95th-Bay Ridge to replace the  in Brooklyn.

 full-time express from Coney Island to 179 via Culver local, South Brooklyn Express, otherwise as it's run now (late nights, local along South Brooklyn).

(Yellow)  All times from Jamaica Center-96th Street-2nd Avenue and if SAS is extended across 125 eventually to 125th-Broadway via current route in Brooklyn and Queens and after Essex Street via Broadway in Manhattan

(Yellow)  All times from Metropolitan Avenue-96th Street 2nd Avenue and if SAS is extended across 125 with a connection to the 8th Avenue Line at St. Nicholas eventually to Bedford Park Boulevard) via current route in Brooklyn and Queens and after Essex Street via Broadway and SAS in Manhattan and Concourse line in The Bronx
 
runs as it does now.

Work is done to make Botanic Garden on the current Franklin Shuttle route a 10-car train with in that scenario the running Coney Island-Botanic Garden as the Brighton Local at all times and the current Franklin is shortened to a single train running between Franklin Avenue and Botanic Garden (perhaps a second track is built at Franklin Avenue to store backup trains). 

runs all times on the same route as the except it is the South Brooklyn local (does not run late nights).

runs full-time from 95th-Bay Ridge to Bowery Station (uses current abandoned platforms at Canal and Bowery as the and would use the currently-used tracks and platform at Bowery). 

This to me can work, however, I would find a way to connect the platforms at Prince Street on the and  in this format to the Broadway-Lafayette station that would be in use for the and  (Houston Street) as well as the IND platforms there. 

[ActiveCity]

You guys may want to look at the fantasy map I made. It serves transit deserts like Central Queens, Eastern Queens, and even Staten Island!

Revolutionary NYC Subway Map
https://goo.gl/maps/pYdWzqUdm4xjnTa1A

[Kamen Rider]

On 8/6/2023 at 10:02 PM, Vulturious said:

 

Back at it again with crazy proposals, I thought about what if a connection from the Brooklyn-Broadway (or is it the other way around? Doesn't matter) were to have a connection to the Broadway line heading uptown. 

Essentially a connection is made through the current active tracks along the Nassau St line with a new tunnel built cutting off the connection to the northbound tracks from Canal St keeping the southbound tracks intact. Basically the same thing occurs along Broadway with another Canal St style cut north of the switches between local and express. This next bit is pretty much optional, but I decided to include widening the area along the line to allow a connection between Prince St and Broadway-Lafayette St to allow for one last transfer between the express and local trains along Broadway. Obviously, Eastern Division is going to see platform extensions under this scenario because them sticking with the 8 car 60 footers while along Broadway Express is going to be atrocious.

New routing patterns follows (bear with me as I'll explain below why this is):
-  Bedford Park Blvd/145 St to Coney Island [Concourse Peak Local, CPW Local, 6 Av Express, via Manhattan Bridge, 4 Av Express, West End Local]
-  Norwood-205 St to Coney Island [Concourse Peak Express, CPW/6 Av Express, via Manhattan Bridge, Brighton Local]
-  Norwood-205 St to Brighton Beach [Concourse Peak Express, CPW/6 Av Express, via Manhattan Bridge, Brighton Express]
-  Jamaica-179 St to Coney Island [Hillside Av Local, QBL Express, via 63 St, 6 Av Local, South Brooklyn Express, Culver Local]
-  Forest Hills-71 Av to Church Av [QBL Local, via 53 St, 6 Av Local, South Brooklyn Local]
-  Jamaica Center to Bay Ridge-95 St [QBL Express, via 53 St, 8 Av Local, via Montague St, 4 Av Local]
- (Yellow) 96 St-2 Av to Jamaica Center [2 Av Local, Broadway Express, via Williamsburg Bridge, Brooklyn-Broadway Peak Express, Jamaica Av Local]
- (Yellow) 96 St-2 Av to Metropolitan Av [2 Av Local, Broadway Express, via Williamsburg Bridge, Brooklyn-Broadway Local, Myrtle Av Local]
-  Astoria-Ditmars Blvd to Coney Island [Astoria Local, via 60 St, Broadway Local, via Manhattan Bridge, 4 Av Express, Sea Beach Local]
-  Forest Hills-71 Av to City Hall [QBL Local, via 60 st, Broadway Local]

I decided to get rid of the  and  since more people know the  and  along the Eastern division especially since the  would no longer be running along Brighton, might as well not keep it around. Now for how the  is running into Brooklyn to begin with, a new connection is made to cover for the lack  service. I wanted to keep  routing short since it's just too long honestly and just isn't reliable. As for the service in South Brooklyn, because of the lack of Broadway service along, I decided to swap around the  and  to basically be what they used to be during the 90's with basically the  running around as the , but got rid of it the Q's name since there's no need in keeping it around. I would've had the  running around on Brighton, but I decided keeping the flexibility between 3 different trunk lines running around along 4 Av, the  and .

Service patterns follows:
-  Rush hours to Bedford Park Blvd, weekdays to 145 St, weekends to 96 St replacing (yellow) trains, late nights to Atlantic Av-Barclays Center express along 4 Av
-  Rush hours peak express in the Bronx,  trains run weekdays only
-  Hillside Av Express during rush hours, local during weekends and late nights
-  Hillside Av Local during rush hours, in service weekdays only
-  Current service pattern
- (Yellow) Peak express along Brooklyn-Broadway during rush hours, late nights local in Manhattan
- (Yellow) Current service pattern
-  Late nights local in Brooklyn stays running along Manhattan Bridge
-  Late night single track shuttle between Canal St and City Hall.

Crazy is right... So you take what you perceive as being wrong with the R... and make it the E's problem instead...

 

First off, the entire point of making the B the Brighton express was it removed the West End shuttle. That way all four lines to Coney Island had direct Manhattan service at all times. Going back to the shuttle... bad idea.

Problem 2... there's no place to put a switch at City Hall unless you finish out the lower level and abandon upstairs. 

Problem 3... Chambers St? Fulton Street? Broad Street? those stations are getting abandoned for what reason?
 

Then, as I keep yelling at Wally but he never seems to listen to me... the infrastructure of the BMT east cannot deal with 10 car trains. Platform extensions are just ONE of the multiple issues that a lot of you never consider when you think about these. The yard tracks at ENY, Canarsie and Fresh Pond cannot hold 10 car trains. The shop tracks in ENY barn cannot hold ten car trains. The signal blocks are not designed for 10 car trains. 

 

 

[Vulturious]

2 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

Crazy is right... So you take what you perceive as being wrong with the R... and make it the E's problem instead...

 

First off, the entire point of making the B the Brighton express was it removed the West End shuttle. That way all four lines to Coney Island had direct Manhattan service at all times. Going back to the shuttle... bad idea.

Problem 2... there's no place to put a switch at City Hall unless you finish out the lower level and abandon upstairs. 

Problem 3... Chambers St? Fulton Street? Broad Street? those stations are getting abandoned for what reason?
 

Then, as I keep yelling at Wally but he never seems to listen to me... the infrastructure of the BMT east cannot deal with 10 car trains. Platform extensions are just ONE of the multiple issues that a lot of you never consider when you think about these. The yard tracks at ENY, Canarsie and Fresh Pond cannot hold 10 car trains. The shop tracks in ENY barn cannot hold ten car trains. The signal blocks are not designed for 10 car trains. 

 

 

I just want to point out that this should not be taken seriously in the slightest, but I do appreciate the time you took out of your day to make this post to point out all the flaws in this. Even now, I'm still not entirely sure of how service would actually work when considering everything outside of the actual image itself.

You are not wrong about the  having to deal with the 's problem. In my defense since the  is already express in Queens, I thought why not. Being express especially along a rather busy corridor and with how many people demand for  service, this is me thinking killing two birds with one stone. 

In the case of South Brooklyn, specifically for the 's case like I said I'm still not sure of how the routing would go. I could easily have where the  is the sole 4th Av Express with the  running local with the  along that corridor. The  would then run to Bay Ridge and the  to Coney via West End. Obviously that wouldn't work out because now West End loses direct express service along 4th Av, however this would allow  to stay as a shuttle service running to whichever station (probably Whitehall or whatever) and  trains still running into Manhattan full time. 

I saw room on the upper level for a switch to be place, probably tight and maybe too narrow so lower level it is, problem solved. Again, I'm still not entirely sure where things would go, if City Hall idea doesn't work out, just have the  do what the  is doing in the paragraph above, but instead run to Queensboro Plaza relaying along Astoria middle track. 

I forgot to include how Nassau St would work in the routing, but I still included it operating. Essentially it's a shuttle running between Bowery and Broad St full time, they aren't becoming abandoned.

As for this last bit about the BMT Eastern division, I'm aware of the infrastructure issues (I did point out the "crazy" part in the original post as well as in this post about it being taken seriously, right) it currently has. Basically everything about the Eastern Division needs an entire remake before anything such as espansions would ever be considered which is a shame, but it is what it is.

 

If there's anything I took from this is that I really need to explicity state that whenever I'm posting my proposals in here that nothing should ever be taken serious because it can never be realistic enough and I do not know what I am talking about. I still appreciate the effort to pointing this out to me.

[Wallyhorse]

17 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

Then, as I keep yelling at Wally but he never seems to listen to me... the infrastructure of the BMT east cannot deal with 10 car trains. Platform extensions are just ONE of the multiple issues that a lot of you never consider when you think about these. The yard tracks at ENY, Canarsie and Fresh Pond cannot hold 10 car trains. The shop tracks in ENY barn cannot hold ten car trains. The signal blocks are not designed for 10 car trains. 

Couldn't most of the yards, if not all, handle nine-car trains?  As I remember reading previously, many of the stations (except the rebuilt Metropolitan Avenue) in the Eastern Division were built to handle eight-car trains of 67' BMT Standards that were 536 feet, only four feet shorter than what a nine-car train would be (540 feet).  If you make those trains nine cars, a lot of this can work since most of the stations if at all would only need to be extended a few feet at most.  

[darkstar8983]

16 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

Couldn't most of the yards, if not all, handle nine-car trains?  As I remember reading previously, many of the stations (except the rebuilt Metropolitan Avenue) in the Eastern Division were built to handle eight-car trains of 67' BMT Standards that were 536 feet, only four feet shorter than what a nine-car train would be (540 feet).  If you make those trains nine cars, a lot of this can work since most of the stations if at all would only need to be extended a few feet at most.  

The  train at both its terminals can barely fit an 8-car train, therefore extensive rehabs would be needed to fit a 9-car train, let alone at 10-car train. As for stations along the and  lines, it is likely that with precise stopping patterns, a 9-car train can platform properly without much of a platform extension. Jamaica Center can fit a 10-car train (and even longer) and I think Broad St can fit long trains too, but I'm not sure about the signals at short-turn terminals or layup tracks (111 St, Crescent St, Broadway Junction, Marcy Av, Essex St)

[Wallyhorse]

11 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

The  train at both its terminals can barely fit an 8-car train, therefore extensive rehabs would be needed to fit a 9-car train, let alone at 10-car train. As for stations along the and  lines, it is likely that with precise stopping patterns, a 9-car train can platform properly without much of a platform extension. Jamaica Center can fit a 10-car train (and even longer) and I think Broad St can fit long trains too, but I'm not sure about the signals at short-turn terminals or layup tracks (111 St, Crescent St, Broadway Junction, Marcy Av, Essex St)

At this point, nine cars would be more realistic, though longer-term I would be looking to extended ALL Eastern Division platforms and do where possible rebuilds of the yards so such can handle at least nine and if not 10-car trains.  

[Amiri the subway guy]

 

[TMC]

23 hours ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

 

This is horribly produced, and extremely incorrect. 

- The first point about one-seat rides is wrong. The subway is not designed to “serve the people” in the way you describe. That is not the point of transit. The point of public transit is not to make literally everyone feel perfectly accommodated with a personal ball scratch, such as the status of a one-seat ride. The point of public transit is rather to make so that only people who are stupid will not ride transit. If you don’t ride transit? Then great, you pay up the $23 for congestion pricing into Midtown and Lower Manhattan and then pay for parking in a garage. Either way, it’s a win, considering the vast majority of New Yorkers know there is not enough space for more cars on the streets of Manhattan, especially as we begin pedestrianizing and adding bus priority, reducing private vehicle capacity (which is a great thing). 
 

- Your second point about the IRT already running very frequently is also not very strong. You show the 2 as running every 5-6 minutes (which is okay by NYC shit-operations standards), which is absolutely terrible compared to the level of demand along Broadway-7th Avenue. Bway-7th Ave’s express tracks only run up to 24 TPH, and the IRT Lexington Avenue Line’s express tracks also run only 24 TPH. These should be running 30 TPH, as the Midtown trunks were overcrowded pre-COVID (and they very well could be more crowded in the future, should we fix other operational aspects of the system, such as off-peak frequency, the important thing is we know the potential of these trunk lines is woefully inadequate). This is only achievable through de-interlining, CBTC does not help. 
 

- You mention several wrong assumptions about 149th Street. You mention that there is a strong preference for the East Side of Manhattan, but that’s not really true. There is a fair amount of people who do prefer East Side service, but the vast majority of NYC’s workforce and destinations clusters around Times Square, radiating outward, with Grand Central serving as another large destination for riders, slightly smaller than Times Square. Bway-7th Avenue and Lexington Avenue are almost equal ridership-wise, 1.1M vs. 1.2M daily respectively. The ridership generators for both lines are not in the Bronx, where if you look at each individual station, they have pretty mediocre ridership figures for the most part. Lex gets its ridership from the UES, one of the densest urban neighborhoods in the country, if not the densest. Bway-7th Avenue gets its ridership from the slightly less dense UWS and Harlem. I looked at the photo you provided, as well as several videos, and I couldn’t find a single  at 149th Street-Grand Concourse that was egregiously overcrowded as stated in the video. If anything, the crowding you perceived was due to the shitfest operations caused by interlining, not the line being overloaded with passengers. 149th Street also can be expanded to handle additional transfer loads… like literally any other interchange station. Bank in London was recently renovated with a new platform to assist with transfer loads. If people are too lazy to walk up stairs, I don’t have a problem, as long as they pay their congestion charge (they’ll get tired of traffic eventually and revert back to the subway if they do choose to be that stupid).

 

- The Harlem Shuttle is a good thing, it’s either that or shutting down the line north of 135th completely. Both of which, I would agree with, because a grand total of 7000 riders combined at those stops is just not worth the trouble of shitty service (by global standards). If the MTA had balls, they’d make these kinds of changes without notifying the public, like how the rest of the world does it. Only after, will information be provided to assist riders in making changes to their journey. 
 

- Over-serving a line is not an issue, running trains is cheap, infrastructure is costly. If trains aren’t full, nuclear-TOD is the solution (although on the topic of Jerome, this would cause capacity issues in Manhattan, because, like I said, the Midtown trunks, especially Lexington Avenue, are overcrowded). Most lines in NYC are actually already over-served by your standards. South Brooklyn struggles with underfull trains, even at pitifully low frequencies. Does this mean we can’t increase service? No, because we would under-serve the core, which is worse than over-serving a branch. 
 

 

 

[Amiri the subway guy]

4 hours ago, TMC said:

This is horribly produced, and extremely incorrect. 

- The first point about one-seat rides is wrong. The subway is not designed to “serve the people” in the way you describe. That is not the point of transit. The point of public transit is not to make literally everyone feel perfectly accommodated with a personal ball scratch, such as the status of a one-seat ride. The point of public transit is rather to make so that only people who are stupid will not ride transit. If you don’t ride transit? Then great, you pay up the $23 for congestion pricing into Midtown and Lower Manhattan and then pay for parking in a garage. Either way, it’s a win, considering the vast majority of New Yorkers know there is not enough space for more cars on the streets of Manhattan, especially as we begin pedestrianizing and adding bus priority, reducing private vehicle capacity (which is a great thing). 
 

- Your second point about the IRT already running very frequently is also not very strong. You show the 2 as running every 5-6 minutes (which is okay by NYC shit-operations standards), which is absolutely terrible compared to the level of demand along Broadway-7th Avenue. Bway-7th Ave’s express tracks only run up to 24 TPH, and the IRT Lexington Avenue Line’s express tracks also run only 24 TPH. These should be running 30 TPH, as the Midtown trunks were overcrowded pre-COVID (and they very well could be more crowded in the future, should we fix other operational aspects of the system, such as off-peak frequency, the important thing is we know the potential of these trunk lines is woefully inadequate). This is only achievable through de-interlining, CBTC does not help. 
 

- You mention several wrong assumptions about 149th Street. You mention that there is a strong preference for the East Side of Manhattan, but that’s not really true. There is a fair amount of people who do prefer East Side service, but the vast majority of NYC’s workforce and destinations clusters around Times Square, radiating outward, with Grand Central serving as another large destination for riders, slightly smaller than Times Square. Bway-7th Avenue and Lexington Avenue are almost equal ridership-wise, 1.1M vs. 1.2M daily respectively. The ridership generators for both lines are not in the Bronx, where if you look at each individual station, they have pretty mediocre ridership figures for the most part. Lex gets its ridership from the UES, one of the densest urban neighborhoods in the country, if not the densest. Bway-7th Avenue gets its ridership from the slightly less dense UWS and Harlem. I looked at the photo you provided, as well as several videos, and I couldn’t find a single  at 149th Street-Grand Concourse that was egregiously overcrowded as stated in the video. If anything, the crowding you perceived was due to the shitfest operations caused by interlining, not the line being overloaded with passengers. 149th Street also can be expanded to handle additional transfer loads… like literally any other interchange station. Bank in London was recently renovated with a new platform to assist with transfer loads. If people are too lazy to walk up stairs, I don’t have a problem, as long as they pay their congestion charge (they’ll get tired of traffic eventually and revert back to the subway if they do choose to be that stupid).

 

- The Harlem Shuttle is a good thing, it’s either that or shutting down the line north of 135th completely. Both of which, I would agree with, because a grand total of 7000 riders combined at those stops is just not worth the trouble of shitty service (by global standards). If the MTA had balls, they’d make these kinds of changes without notifying the public, like how the rest of the world does it. Only after, will information be provided to assist riders in making changes to their journey. 
 

- Over-serving a line is not an issue, running trains is cheap, infrastructure is costly. If trains aren’t full, nuclear-TOD is the solution (although on the topic of Jerome, this would cause capacity issues in Manhattan, because, like I said, the Midtown trunks, especially Lexington Avenue, are overcrowded). Most lines in NYC are actually already over-served by your standards. South Brooklyn struggles with underfull trains, even at pitifully low frequencies. Does this mean we can’t increase service? No, because we would under-serve the core, which is worse than over-serving a branch. 
 

 

 

It is clear that you care nothing for people of New York City.  I thought we settled this on Reddit. “The point of public transit is rather to make so that only people who are stupid will not ride transit.” *Bullshit!! Just complete BULLSHIT*!!!! The true purpose is this The MTA’s provision of safe, clean, efficient public transportation is the lifeblood of the New York City area, one of the world’s major economic hubs. It opens up employment opportunities for millions of area residents, linking them to jobs miles from their homes. It revives old neighborhoods and gives rise to new business corridors. It links millions of residents and visitors to cultural, educational, retail, and civic centers across the region. https://new.mta.info/about-us/the-mta-network. 
  
 

Then you claim that 5-6 minutes is bad? WRONG!!! The wait times on the platforms is only 3 minutes. As I was making that video I used fact based information and analysis unlike delusional deinterlining advocates that throw a tantrum if theirs trains are not every 1 minute. 

You are a former who knows nothing about the NYC Subway system. A huge chuck of Lexington Avenue service is *FROM BRONX* interlining has absolutely nothing to do this. Now you’re trying to compare an entirely different continent to here? That there is a useless strawman argument. 

“If people are too lazy to walk up stairs, I don’t have a problem, as long as they pay their congestion charge (they’ll get tired of traffic eventually and revert back to the subway if they do choose to be that stupid). The Harlem Shuttle is a good thing, it’s either that or shutting down the line north of 135th completely. Both of which, I would agree with, because a grand total of 7000 riders combined at those stops is just not worth the trouble of shitty service If the MTA had balls, they’d make these kinds of changes without notifying the public, like how the rest of the world does it. Only after, will information be provided to assist riders in making changes to their journey.” See? Do you see how you’re proving my point on how y’all do not give a shit about New York? Putting your own misguided values is *not the ideal*! Like I don’t know how to give y’all a sense of reality.

*THE PEOPLE COME FIRST!!!!!* You do not speak for all approximately  8 million f**king people that ride the subway every f**king day!! And for someone that live in New Jersey even if an ex New York I honestly do not think you should be saying a single thing! 
 

The MTA subway system is not your personal art project that you could just edited for your own amusement! Wanna make these stupid ass plans a reality? Go make a openbve account and create a mod based off deinterlining, cause at this point openbve is the perfect place for y’all!!

Overrunning trains is an issue because when there is that much trains there’s isn’t enough space to place or terminate all of that traffic. The trains will end up getting stuck at many areas across the system like I ride the train to Wakefield and sometimes it gets stuck because both tracks of the terminal are filled up. Meaning that IRT has excellent service. End of story

 

 

[TMC]

31 minutes ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

“The point of public transit is rather to make so that only people who are stupid will not ride transit.” *Bullshit!! Just complete BULLSHIT*!!!! The true purpose is this The MTA’s provision of safe, clean, efficient public transportation is the lifeblood of the New York City area, one of the world’s major economic hubs. It opens up employment opportunities for millions of area residents, linking them to jobs miles from their homes. It revives old neighborhoods and gives rise to new business corridors. It links millions of residents and visitors to cultural, educational, retail, and civic centers across the region. https://new.mta.info/about-us/the-mta-network.

See, but a system that is good at those things is also one that you have to be an idiot not to ride, so my point stands. 
 

32 minutes ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

Then you claim that 5-6 minutes is bad? WRONG!!! The wait times on the platforms is only 3 minutes. As I was making that video I used fact based information and analysis unlike delusional deinterlining advocates that throw a tantrum if theirs trains are not every 1 minute. 

5-6 minutes on a branch is bad, 3 minutes is good but likely unattainable. There is no branch that is scheduled to run every 3 minutes, and the screenshots displayed in your video showed the  running every 5-6 minutes. I did use facts and analysis, I know how often every train runs, and how that affects capacity. 
 

35 minutes ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

You are a former who knows nothing about the NYC Subway system. A huge chuck of Lexington Avenue service is *FROM BRONX* interlining has absolutely nothing to do this. Now you’re trying to compare an entirely different continent to here? That there is a useless strawman argument.

This is incorrect, if you look at ridership data and peak loading guidelines, where the Lexington Ave Expresses hit crush load between 86th Street and 42nd Street. The stations along the White Plains Rd and Jerome Avenue Lines have mediocre ridership figures for the built environment they are located in, meaning the source of crowding is not the Bronx, but the UES and UWS. 
 

I will also compare other continents to our system, because they do better and we have a lot to learn from the outside world, rather than make excuses about how “NYC is different so X and Y doesn’t work”. Everything that works elsewhere works here, it’s all about application. 
 

1 hour ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

“If people are too lazy to walk up stairs, I don’t have a problem, as long as they pay their congestion charge (they’ll get tired of traffic eventually and revert back to the subway if they do choose to be that stupid). The Harlem Shuttle is a good thing, it’s either that or shutting down the line north of 135th completely. Both of which, I would agree with, because a grand total of 7000 riders combined at those stops is just not worth the trouble of shitty service If the MTA had balls, they’d make these kinds of changes without notifying the public, like how the rest of the world does it. Only after, will information be provided to assist riders in making changes to their journey.” See? Do you see how you’re proving my point on how y’all do not give a shit about New York? Putting your own misguided values is *not the ideal*! Like I don’t know how to give y’all a sense of reality.

I don’t see what you’re trying to say here. If anything this is better because it removes the political obstacles necessary to put this plan forward. Hyper-localization is a problem in NYC, where decisions on citywide matters, such as subway service are left up to communities, not experts who are actually much more sympathetic to de-interlining (yes, those exist within the MTA’s upper ranks). And this is why nothing gets done. 
 

1 hour ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

Overrunning trains is an issue because when there is that much trains there’s isn’t enough space to place or terminate all of that traffic. The trains will end up getting stuck at many areas across the system like I ride the train to Wakefield and sometimes it gets stuck because both tracks of the terminal are filled up. Meaning that IRT has excellent service. End of story

Most terminals can handle 20 TPH, with few exceptions that can be sorted out. If you’re train is getting stuck at Wakefield, with its measly 8-10 TPH of  service, that’s a dispatching error, not a hard capacity limit. Dispatching and Terminal Ops really need to be cleaned up in order to soak up extra capacity.

[Amiri the subway guy]

5 hours ago, TMC said:

See, but a system that is good at those things is also one that you have to be an idiot not to ride, so my point stands. 
 

5-6 minutes on a branch is bad, 3 minutes is good but likely unattainable. There is no branch that is scheduled to run every 3 minutes, and the screenshots displayed in your video showed the  running every 5-6 minutes. I did use facts and analysis, I know how often every train runs, and how that affects capacity. 
 

This is incorrect, if you look at ridership data and peak loading guidelines, where the Lexington Ave Expresses hit crush load between 86th Street and 42nd Street. The stations along the White Plains Rd and Jerome Avenue Lines have mediocre ridership figures for the built environment they are located in, meaning the source of crowding is not the Bronx, but the UES and UWS. 
 

I will also compare other continents to our system, because they do better and we have a lot to learn from the outside world, rather than make excuses about how “NYC is different so X and Y doesn’t work”. Everything that works elsewhere works here, it’s all about application. 
 

I don’t see what you’re trying to say here. If anything this is better because it removes the political obstacles necessary to put this plan forward. Hyper-localization is a problem in NYC, where decisions on citywide matters, such as subway service are left up to communities, not experts who are actually much more sympathetic to de-interlining (yes, those exist within the MTA’s upper ranks). And this is why nothing gets done. 
 

Most terminals can handle 20 TPH, with few exceptions that can be sorted out. If you’re train is getting stuck at Wakefield, with its measly 8-10 TPH of  service, that’s a dispatching error, not a hard capacity limit. Dispatching and Terminal Ops really need to be cleaned up in order to soak up extra capacity.

Then why did the Franklin avenue shuttle was rebuild? Why was the  kept? Community Opposition! 

[TMC]

4 minutes ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

Then why did the Franklin avenue shuttle was rebuild? Why was the  kept? Community Opposition! 

In the case of the  they f**ked up at the same time they shouldn’t have listened to the community. The plan was to cut service altogether, and cut service down to 8 TPH, instead of turning s into s, for a full 12 TPH of local service on the Nassau/Bway-Bklyn/Jamaica Lines. 
 

In the case of the shuttle, it was in such bad condition that abandoning it could have made sense, but not really, as rebuilding it in the future would be expensive. So, the MTA had good intentions, but followed judgement.

 

I feel like you’re cherry-picking bad examples

[Amiri the subway guy]

3 hours ago, TMC said:

In the case of the  they f**ked up at the same time they shouldn’t have listened to the community. The plan was to cut service altogether, and cut service down to 8 TPH, instead of turning s into s, for a full 12 TPH of local service on the Nassau/Bway-Bklyn/Jamaica Lines. 
 

In the case of the shuttle, it was in such bad condition that abandoning it could have made sense, but not really, as rebuilding it in the future would be expensive. So, the MTA had good intentions, but followed judgement.

 

I feel like you’re cherry-picking bad examples

Look I have my opinions and you got your opinions ok? I’ll just leave it as that

Edited August 16, 2023 by Amiri the subway guy

[TMC]

5 hours ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

Look I have my opinions and you got your opinions ok? I’ll just leave it as that

That’s not how discussions work, you can’t just defend yourself for a few rounds, then throw everything away under the disguise of “WeLl It’S mY oPiNiOn” when you realize the other party is correct and you can’t respond back. 

[Amiri the subway guy]

17 minutes ago, TMC said:

That’s not how discussions work, you can’t just defend yourself for a few rounds, then throw everything away under the disguise of “WeLl It’S mY oPiNiOn” when you realize the other party is correct and you can’t respond back. 

YOURE WRONG! I Was literally trying to stop this petty argument 

[Amiri the subway guy]

Any one else here?