Transfer between City Hall (R/W) and Park Place (2/3)?

[West End]

...a problem only in the stubborn heads of the PA brass. The new  station and its entrances are 95% within a completed shell space where the MTA could be working on the station right now, if there was any sense in the world. And course   trains are running right now, so it's not like there's a gaping hole at one end of the station without foundation. I haven't ridden through an railfanned that section of the  in a while, but I suspect the entire station shell is essentially ready to turn over, the PA is just being ridiculous about not have two different construction crews working nearby at the same time. But even if there's a bit of platform space at the north end that's not ready for the MTA, the MTA could and should be working on the other 95%, if the PA would just let them. 

 

My friend who works for the PA tells me that relations between them and the MTA soured after the MTA refused to shut down service to South Ferry while the WTC Oculus was being constructed, causing the PA to spend an extra $335 million to build around it. I'm not surprised that the PA is making the MTA wait.

[rbrome]

I hope the tiles the station using a replica design of the original tiles, similarly to what they did at Cortlandt Street on the line. I would hate to see some kind of modern-minimalist design there, instead.

 

I think it will be mostly modern. I'm not sure there's a rendering yet, but there is a description:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/30/nyregion/at-cortlandt-street-subway-station-art-woven-from-words.html

My friend who works for the PA tells me that relations between them and the MTA soured after the MTA refused to shut down service to South Ferry while the WTC Oculus was being constructed, causing the PA to spend an extra $335 million to build around it. I'm not surprised that the PA is making the MTA wait.

 

Sadly, that makes "sense". 

[bobtehpanda]

There was a proposal made for the MTA to buy out the PATH and link the 6 at World Trade Center. The MTA was actually kind of open to it, but the Port Authority nixed it. It also certainly doesn't help matters that the MTA somehow manages to make the PATH's operating costs look bad.

 

Port Authority in general is usually pretty defensive about "their" turf.

[P3F]

There was a proposal made for the MTA to buy out the PATH and link the 6 at World Trade Center. The MTA was actually kind of open to it, but the Port Authority nixed it. It also certainly doesn't help matters that the MTA somehow manages to make the PATH's operating costs look bad.

 

Port Authority in general is usually pretty defensive about "their" turf.

Damn, why is PATH 5 times more expensive to run than the Subway?

[Porter]

I hope the tiles the station using a replica design of the original tiles, similarly to what they did at Cortlandt Street on the line. I would hate to see some kind of modern-minimalist design there, instead.

 

...Do you really want these bricks back?

 

 

My friend who works for the PA tells me that relations between them and the MTA soured after the MTA refused to shut down service to South Ferry while the WTC Oculus was being constructed, causing the PA to spend an extra $335 million to build around it. I'm not surprised that the PA is making the MTA wait.

 

Those petty bastards. Especially considering that Sandy's destruction of the new South Ferry station would have given them a perfect opportunity!

[Around the Horn]

...Do you really want these bricks back?

 

 

 

Those petty bastards. Especially considering that Sandy's destruction of the new South Ferry station would have given them a perfect opportunity!

 

I think he means the 1918 original's not the 70's renovation.

[Porter]

I think he means the 1918 original's not the 70's renovation.

 

Wait... I thought that the Cortlandt IRT station used to be elevated at that time, and then sent underground only for the sake of the World Trade Center project.

[P3F]

Wait... I thought that the Cortlandt IRT station used to be elevated at that time, and then sent underground only for the sake of the World Trade Center project.

That makes less sense than some of Wally's proposals. Do some basic research before writing ridiculous questions.

[RailRunRob]

There was a proposal made for the MTA to buy out the PATH and link the 6 at World Trade Center. The MTA was actually kind of open to it, but the Port Authority nixed it. It also certainly doesn't help matters that the MTA somehow manages to make the PATH's operating costs look bad.

 

Port Authority in general is usually pretty defensive about "their" turf.

Interesting. 

[Fresh Pond]

That makes less sense than some of Wally's proposals. Do some basic research before writing ridiculous questions.

Calm down, it's not that serious...

[RailRunRob]

That makes less sense than some of Wally's proposals. Do some basic research before writing ridiculous questions.

Maybe he's talking about the columns and undertakings used to support the tunnel when they dug up the basin for the building. both times

 

 

[P3F]

Maybe he's talking about the columns and undertakings used to support the tunnel when they dug up the basin for the building. both times

 

He was saying the opposite -- that the station was elevated before the World Trade Center was built, and put underground only because of the World Trade Center.

[Around the Horn]

There was a proposal made for the MTA to buy out the PATH and link the 6 at World Trade Center. The MTA was actually kind of open to it, but the Port Authority nixed it. It also certainly doesn't help matters that the MTA somehow manages to make the PATH's operating costs look bad.

 

Port Authority in general is usually pretty defensive about "their" turf.

 

This should have happened... (sigh)

[West End]

Damn, why is PATH 5 times more expensive to run than the Subway?

 

The PATH is subject to federal railroad regulations (such as with equipment testing and cleanliness) since it used to have a track switch to Amtrak.

[Porter]

He was saying the opposite -- that the station was elevated before the World Trade Center was built, and put underground only because of the World Trade Center.

 

I confused the two Cortlandt Street IRT stations. The Ninth Avenue line was elevated at that time and demolished for the sake of the World Trade Center project, not the Seventh Avenue line.

 

[Around the Horn]

The PATH is subject to federal railroad regulations (such as with equipment testing and cleanliness) since it used to have a track switch to Amtrak.

 

Technically it was a switch to the Pennsylvania Railroad, because it was removed before the PRR went bankrupt, but yes that is why PATH costs more to operate.

[Fresh Pond]

I confused the two Cortlandt Street IRT stations. The Ninth Avenue line was elevated at that time and demolished for the sake of the World Trade Center project, not the Seventh Avenue line.

 

The Ninth Avenue elevated was closed and demolished in the 40s after the city outright brought the IRT. The construction for the WTC didn't begin until the mid-60s.

[RailRunRob]

He was saying the opposite -- that the station was elevated before the World Trade Center was built, and put underground only because of the World Trade Center.

Just figure maybe this is what led him to believe that. There of been a few pictures online showing Trusses holding up both the PATH and the IRT during both constructions. If a person doesn't know educate them. My philosophy.

 

 

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[P3F]

Why has the FRA denied PATH from moving its control over to the FTA, under which a lot less money would be spent?

[RailRunRob]

Why has the FRA denied PATH from moving its control over to the FTA, under which a lot less money would be spent?

I thought it was the PA's choice to stay under the FRA The mainline connections is been severed correct? Shouldn't be that hard. That extension to Newark Liberty would be a lot easier under the FRA. Maybe one of the reasons?

 

 

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[Porter]

The Ninth Avenue elevated was closed and demolished in the 40s after the city outright brought the IRT. The construction for the WTC didn't begin until the mid-60s.

 

I'd mistakenly believed it to be in operation until the 1950s, like some of the other ELs. After all, the World Trade Center was planned and designed during the 1950s, with the original idea springing up soon after World War II. It was the ultimate post-war statement, and now it's a millennial statement, though regrettably less impactful, stunning though the Oculus may be.

[checkmatechamp13]

Those are pretty far away, IMO. 

 

But in practice, they're sufficient. If you're on the train coming from Brooklyn, you can transfer at either Atlantic or Court, and if you're coming from Queens, you can transfer at Times Square. If you're coming from Lower Manhattan itself, you can just walk to either the or directly. 

 

A City Hall connection would provide a transfer that serves 7 Avenue and 8 Avenue equally. From Cortlandt Street, there is only easy access to the ; the and platform is an entire train length away and the and platform even farther.

 

When it’s late at night, getting a transfer in the local area is better than backtracking. There aren’t too many crosstown lines connection Broadway and 7/8 Avenue. Times Square–42 Street is one hell of a walk to transfer between Broadway and 8 Avenue. In fact, transfers from Broadway to any other line is conspicuously absent from Canal Street to South Ferry–Whitehall Street. The transfer to the is only a transfer to a local train; express 7 Avenue service is not reachable without backtracking to Brooklyn, making a transfer at 14 Street–Union Square, or traversing nearly the entire length of the Broadway local tracks.

 

See above.

[psoohoo]

Wasn't there an exit at the southern end of the City Hall station that led to the Woolworth Building.

Granted it's been long closed and the status of the passage unknown.

 

If it led to the west side of Broadway, it would be next to where the Park Place station's exit is.

If so then I may be possible to make this connection.

 

I have never used that exit nor can remember anything about it.

[rbrome]

Wasn't there an exit at the southern end of the City Hall station that led to the Woolworth Building.

Granted it's been long closed and the status of the passage unknown.

 

If it led to the west side of Broadway, it would be next to where the Park Place station's exit is.

If so then I may be possible to make this connection.

 

I have never used that exit nor can remember anything about it.

 

Oh really? That would be interesting. I'm not aware of that.

 

There is a closed entrance from the Park Place     station into the Woolworth Building. It's not even a passage, just a staircase from the turnstile mezzannine up to the sidewalk, but it's within the envelope of the Woolworth. I'm not sure why it's closed. The only open stairs at Park Place & Broadway are a real bottleneck. 

[Porter]

It's not even a passage, just a staircase from the turnstile mezzannine up to the sidewalk, but it's within the envelope of the Woolworth.

 

That reminds me of the entrances that I used to use to reach the Fulton Street from 195 Broadway (one of the two twin entrances is still open today) and 214 Broadway (now a Chase Bank). The new Fulton Center design basically forced these two entrances to close, and the new Pace dormitory at 182 Broadway forced yet another staircase to the sidewalk to close too. Of course, the Fulton Center itself is a much more convenient portal than the lone staircase that used to be there on that corner (underneath a storefront, if I recall correctly). Fulton Street Station used to be a complete mess before the Fulton Center!