B35 via Church Posted December 3, 2017 Share #51 Posted December 3, 2017 1 hour ago, RailRunRob said: Guy, I'm so happy to hear you say that because honestly the under simplification of everything is killing me. I'm hearing comment's based on nothing but hearsay not understanding the goals or the task or even what it takes to do the job. In my opinion, that's what's killing this Country now. Everyone wants it instant right to 10 just skipping the steps. We know signaling needs to be upgraded. Okay, can anyone tell me the amount of trackage both revenue and non that need to be upgraded I didn't see anyone start from that point? Fast Track do we have an estimation of time? Can we even get it done within that work structure? Or before that understanding that the population is expected to hit 9 million...10 million in 2070 what's needed to get the system absorb growing ridership 7-8 million a day anyone? Is it more that signaling? Building more lines? Naivete act? Half the time I'm so flabbergasted about the thought process I'm trying to start the fire with the question's and understand how you came to that conclusion. I'm not trying to assume anything and be open to someone else's POV we coved this before. But I can get right to the gusto from now on if that's better? Trust there's nothing I'm saying or doing that you wouldn't get in the real world break it down. Don't need more complainers we need more problem solvers man. Head in the sand where? Remember there's someone laying the foundation for you to build on.. Your Car, Computer, Software, and Train and every process start with the What? and Why? You're not going to negate that don't care how you feel about it, The process doesn't care about your feelings playa whether you understand that or not. The World's still spinning at 1,048Mph (Shrugs) Hey VG long time buddy. You inquired on what a transit expert is... You got an answer you apparently didn't like.... The logic you retorted with in your initial response to me, would have anyone believe they're "experts" simply because they have opinions.... So yes, if you're going to be that dimwitted about it, then expect me to believe that this is yet another one of your displays of being naive, gullible, and having your head in the damn sand.... People like Dan Rivoli, as well as the likes of you, are giving the RPA FAR too much credit.... Give me the evidence that these people are transit experts & I'll back off, since you feel some type of way about it..... Otherwise, I will continue to stand firm in my belief that those that are out here exalting themselves (or posing) as transit experts (like this guy ) are anything but.... As far as the crux of this rant of yours, you want answers so bad, go contact the "experts" at RPA! ...playa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted December 3, 2017 Share #52 Posted December 3, 2017 54 minutes ago, B35 via Church said: You inquired on what a transit expert is... You got an answer you apparently didn't like.... The logic you retorted with in your initial response to me, would have anyone believe they're "experts" simply because they have opinions.... So yes, if you're going to be that dimwitted about it, then expect me to believe that this is yet another one of your displays of being naive, gullible, and having your head in the damn sand.... People like Dan Rivoli, as well as the likes of you, are giving the RPA FAR too much credit.... Give me the evidence that these people are transit experts & I'll back off, since you feel some type of way about it..... Otherwise, I will continue to stand firm in my belief that those that are out here exalting themselves (or posing) as transit experts (like this guy ) are anything but.... As far as the crux of this rant of yours, you want answers so bad, go contact the "experts" at RPA! ...playa. You answered a question with your opinion. And that's fine. But I can't verify it as fact. Gullible? You have the internet just do the due diligence these are people that are educated in the field with degrees there's history and Skin in the game with most of these people. Isn't that a standard society holds you to as an expert? Not saying this plan, doesn't have holes but there is something tangible there, at least. How would you do better? But of course, I checked the background that's the 1st thing you do. Again we feel we know more where's the Math there is a process to this... Upgrades There's 850 miles of track minus what's been upgraded CBTC. 15-20 Years to get it done. 55 hours on the avg weekend. 28 Hours late night hours per week. 80-85 foot space between track transponders. THALES and others.What's the install time per block? Cost? Can we break this into phases? RPA okay, I want to give you the credit being your critiquing. Set it off Pleboi what's your play? You have to be the real deal to spot the fakes and frauds. The floor's yours let's have the convo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted December 3, 2017 Share #53 Posted December 3, 2017 44 minutes ago, RailRunRob said: You answered a question with your option. And that's fine. But I can't verify it as fact. Gullible? You have the internet just do the due diligence these are people that are educated in the field with degrees there's history and Skin in the game with most of these people. Isn't that a standard society holds you to as an expert? Not saying this plan, doesn't have holes but there is something tangible there, at least. How would you do better? But of course, I checked the background that's the 1st thing you do. Again we feel we know more where's the Math there is a process to this... Upgrades There's 850 miles of track minus what's been upgraded CBTC. 15-20 Years to get it done. 55 hours on the avg weekend. 28 Hours late night hours per week. 80-85 foot space between track transponders. THALES and others.What's the install time per block? Cost? Can we break this into phases? RPA okay, I want to give you the credit being your critiquing. Set it off Pleboi what's your play? You have to be the real deal to spot the fakes and frauds. The floor's yours let's have the convo. Something tangible? You say that as if the RPA actually implemented anything.... An opinion is not tangible.... I'm not the one posing as any expert, being of any "real deal", nor do I want any credit for supposedly being some expert... So I see you're one of these people that don't believe that anyone can critique something unless they have answers themselves.... That's not my problem & that's your prerogative, but for me to stumble upon reading something that I have the opinion of being so excessive & over the top as eliminating 24/7 subway service, is just plain crazy.... Let's start there.... The MTA doesn't have to eradicate overnight service to fix this mess that quite frankly, they created by their blatant stubbornness over the past couple... decades..... How about these contractors that are working graveyard on whatever projects they're currently working on, to stop d*cking around down there in the city's tunnels (they are notorious for that!!) & get more work done at a better pace than what's actually being done..... Like I said, you want more detailed or technical answers, go contact these "experts" you're hell bent on exalting & defending.... Thanks, but I don't want any acceptance of your credit, my score's pretty damn good on its own.... My "play" is irrelevant... Don't bother trying to fish for answers through me.... No wonder you've gotten ignored all throughout this thread up until this point..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted December 3, 2017 Share #54 Posted December 3, 2017 2 hours ago, B35 via Church said: Something tangible? You say that as if the RPA actually implemented anything.... An opinion is not tangible.... I'm not the one posing as any expert, being of any "real deal", nor do I want any credit for supposedly being some expert... So I see you're one of these people that don't believe that anyone can critique something unless they have answers themselves.... That's not my problem & that's your prerogative, but for me to stumble upon reading something that I have the opinion of being so excessive & over the top as eliminating 24/7 subway service, is just plain crazy.... Let's start there.... The MTA doesn't have to eradicate overnight service to fix this mess that quite frankly, they created by their blatant stubbornness over the past couple... decades..... How about these contractors that are working graveyard on whatever projects they're currently working on, to stop d*cking around down there in the city's tunnels (they are notorious for that!!) & get more work done at a better pace than what's actually being done..... Like I said, you want more detailed or technical answers, go contact these "experts" you're hell bent on exalting & defending.... Thanks, but I don't want any acceptance of your credit, my score's pretty damn good on its own.... My "play" is irrelevant... Don't bother trying to fish for answers through me.... No wonder you've gotten ignored all throughout this thread up until this point..... 11 You know what at the end of the day the RPA's getting press your reading their ideas and their proposals good or bad it's tangible. You should absolutely critique but geez I thought the basis of a productive conversation was being able to give alternatives and say why? Again how could you find fault with anything if you yourself don't understand the process? If you don't have a play then why say anything? Those that can't do talk what's the end game? Passion about something without a outlet? That's the part I don't understand I come here to be able to build on knowledge, ideas and have a healthy debate see it from a different view. Nothing your saying fit that's narrative it's" I don't have to know I can say what I want".. Cool and you'll be Complaining every fare hike and Bus Schedule change from here to Albuquerque Critiquing other peoples work and having decisions made for you with the wacky folks at RPA are at the table Non-expert opinions and all. Déjà vu Had a similar conversation with someone else. Yes, I am speaking to the experts already and there talking the way I'm talking What and why? You think I got that 85 foot Thales measurement from the air? My guy is installing RFID tags on the 8th line already there saying it's work. So how could you be sure you might not have to shut down? You don't have a scope of work. Could it be phased? I dont know.. I know there isnt (2)(3) late nights and weekends why wouldn't you do something similar. The City can't wait 50 years.. Fish answers? What answers? I may not have them all but you know what I know the process to solve for X.. I would hope so with this piece of paper and 50K in student loans 15 years after graduation. Ignored ahhh that's what happened I was wondering. Hope people think more of me sometimes the way you view yourself and the way your viewed doesn't add up. I can only be me and bring my POV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6 Limited Posted December 3, 2017 Share #55 Posted December 3, 2017 On 11/30/2017 at 9:43 AM, Lawrence St said: We do NOT need a full system shutdown. Rather then doing that, have multiple fasttracks going on at once. As long as it's thoughtful and logical. The MTA will do customer unfriendly things like shut down one route and have track work on the diversion route. For Example, A 6th Ave Fastrack had the and running on 8th Ave: All and and trains via 53rd Street. There was track work going on 53rd Street and Queens Blvd and trains were running local on Queens Blvd with the terminating at 71st Ave Delays started on 8 Ave all the way through Queens. MTA: "Gee I wonder why riders are opting for other means of transportation." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted December 16, 2017 Share #56 Posted December 16, 2017 Not so crazy after all. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/15/nyregion/new-york-subway-chief-closing-lines.html?_r=0&mtrref=feedly.com They're going to have close lines at some point there no way at the pace they're moving. 19 for 2 CTBC line upgrades. There's going to be a lot to learn from the Closure. I feel like they'll be similar closers for upgrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucey Posted December 16, 2017 Share #57 Posted December 16, 2017 2 hours ago, RailRunRob said: Not so crazy after all. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/15/nyregion/new-york-subway-chief-closing-lines.html?_r=0&mtrref=feedly.com They're going to have close lines at some point there no way at the pace they're moving. 19 for 2 CTBC line upgrades. There's going to be a lot to learn from the Closure. I feel like they'll be similar closers for upgrades. I never understood why EVERY LINE has to be run 24/7, when the system was largely built with redundancies. I mean it's nice to be able to choose between the or the when I'm on the Westside, but closing one at 8pm nightly and on weekends above Chambers St to put CBTC in faster shouldn't be anathema. ( just runs on or transfers to ; or run to 96th St with an OOS to the at 96th/CPW). There's ways to do this that make sense; crosstraining crews to work A and B division would make it much easier (or shut down one line and increase service on another to compensate.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted December 16, 2017 Share #58 Posted December 16, 2017 6 hours ago, Deucey said: I never understood why EVERY LINE has to be run 24/7, when the system was largely built with redundancies. I mean it's nice to be able to choose between the or the when I'm on the Westside, but closing one at 8pm nightly and on weekends above Chambers St to put CBTC in faster shouldn't be anathema. ( just runs on or transfers to ; or run to 96th St with an OOS to the at 96th/CPW). There's ways to do this that make sense; crosstraining crews to work A and B division would make it much easier (or shut down one line and increase service on another to compensate.) 7 I honestly can't think of any other way for the MTA to get CBTC done in 10-20 years with there current track record. CBTC deployment would seem like it would fall into a Brownfield category I'm not an expert on the MTA's infrastructure so a line closure might label it greenfield status if you don't have to maintain full revenue service during deployment (Shurgs). But from what I learned this year bidding for work and talking to the people I know there's a vast Existing Infrastructure that has to be worked around with wireless/in tunnel communication alone that needs to be build around and not Interfered with. CTBC is a tech deployment after all. But to your point starting in the area's where there are redundancies is probably the best bet. The Flushing and Canarsie lines were the low hanging fruit. Bronx and Manhattan corridors come to mind as a possible 1st up to bat after QB Line.This has to be a phase and section rollout. A lot needs to be figured out with reroutes and available yard and terminal access as well. And then testing sigh! Whenever you have just night and weekend access to the tracks major constraints and years of testing no way around that. With all the Intertwined trackage one things for sure, it's a tough cookie to crack. Sectional shutdowns seem to be inevitable at the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY1635 Posted December 16, 2017 Share #59 Posted December 16, 2017 10 hours ago, Deucey said: I never understood why EVERY LINE has to be run 24/7, when the system was largely built with redundancies. I mean it's nice to be able to choose between the or the when I'm on the Westside, but closing one at 8pm nightly and on weekends above Chambers St to put CBTC in faster shouldn't be anathema. ( just runs on or transfers to ; or run to 96th St with an OOS to the at 96th/CPW). There's ways to do this that make sense; crosstraining crews to work A and B division would make it much easier (or shut down one line and increase service on another to compensate.) There's lots of tourists, workers, and bar hoppers who use the subway during overnight hours.Most lines has to be run 24/7 because passengers don't want to wait over 20 minutes for a trains, especially at platforms where the homeless sleep or beg people for money. There's no alternatives to the subway outside of Manhattan in some parts of Brooklyn, Queens, the Bronx. Getting to the LIRR and MNRR is pretty tedious during overnight hours, one delay on the subway can make people miss their train at Grand Central or Penn even with their tickets ready. The MTA doesn't even bother to advertise the buses as an alternative. Besides, the and 42nd Street already don't operate during overnight hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenSin Posted December 16, 2017 Share #60 Posted December 16, 2017 1 hour ago, NY1635 said: There's lots of tourists, workers, and bar hoppers who use the subway during overnight hours.Most lines has to be run 24/7 because passengers don't want to wait over 20 minutes for a trains, especially at platforms where the homeless sleep or beg people for money. There's no alternatives to the subway outside of Manhattan in some parts of Brooklyn, Queens, the Bronx. Getting to the LIRR and MNRR is pretty tedious during overnight hours, one delay on the subway can make people miss their train at Grand Central or Penn even with their tickets ready. The MTA doesn't even bother to advertise the buses as an alternative. Besides, the and 42nd Street already don't operate during overnight hours. You’re not addressing the point. All those tourists, workers, and bar hoppers could use the nearby lines. If they don’t want to wait over 20 minutes, alternatives could be run at double the frequency, making it more attractive. Let’s say the was down for the night. would be doubled to compensate in Manhattan and the Bronx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY1635 Posted December 16, 2017 Share #61 Posted December 16, 2017 1 hour ago, CenSin said: You’re not addressing the point. All those tourists, workers, and bar hoppers could use the nearby lines. If they don’t want to wait over 20 minutes, alternatives could be run at double the frequency, making it more attractive. Let’s say the was down for the night. would be doubled to compensate in Manhattan and the Bronx. The MTA doesn't want to double service on the nearest line during overnight hours. They'd rather keep service levels the same on the lines if the lines were down for maintenance. Plus the doesn't serve the areas of the Bronx where people living along the or the need to go. Folks would rather put up with the Lex crawling to the Bronx than the . His words relies too heavily on the MTA being honest and notifying people month in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucey Posted December 16, 2017 Share #62 Posted December 16, 2017 1 hour ago, NY1635 said: The MTA doesn't want to double service on the nearest line during overnight hours. They'd rather keep service levels the same on the lines if the lines were down for maintenance. Plus the doesn't serve the areas of the Bronx where people living along the or the need to go. Folks would rather put up with the Lex crawling to the Bronx than the . His words relies too heavily on the MTA being honest and notifying people month in advance. Actually, my words rely on utilizing logic to guide efficiency. Running trains every 8-10 overnight to compensate for line closures - since the B division uptown was built to replace the A division - is logical. And running OWL bus service to connect the places without redundant service is still logical. Chicago, London, Toronto, Mexico City and San Francisco do it - only this religion of New York exceptionalism prevents it from being done here. So doesn't run down Broadway. That doesn't preclude running a crosstown SBS through the Park every 10 minutes overnight to 86th on the Lex, the local on CPW, the to Wakefield and a BX12-SBS super-select between Van Courtlandt, 207th and White Plains Road. Problem solved (and it took care of the not being a shuttle from 168th). Or there's no CPW trains. shuttle to Yankee Stadium; shuttle to 168th. Boom. And for Brooklyn, run to B-way/Lafayette or up the to City Hall. And for the : run it to Chambers and back to Bk. It's not that hard to reconfigure the system for OWL service and shutdowns - especially in Manhattan since unless you're in ABC, Dyckman or by either waterfront you're only four avenues away from a train at most. And people will get used to it - especially for long-term repairing the system, just like they got used to overnight express going away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatOne2k Posted December 16, 2017 Share #63 Posted December 16, 2017 MTA does run extra overnight service between 149 St and Woodlawn when the is shut down north of 161 St Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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