Via Garibaldi 8 Posted December 13, 2017 Share #1 Posted December 13, 2017 MTA seeks contractor to construct subway’s first platform safety barrier A South Korean train station featuring automated platform barriers. (© LEE JAE WON / REUTERS/REUTERS) BYDAN RIVOLI NEW YORK DAILY NEWS Monday, December 11, 2017, 9:19 PM Please stand clear of the platform doors — finally. The MTA is looking for a contractor to design and build one of the subway’s first platform barriers, which are common in transit systems around the world. After studying potential locations and designs, MTA officials are suggesting an automated platform gate that’s 4 1/2 feet high on the L line’s Third Ave. station in Manhattan. “The goal is to improve customer safety,” Steve Plochochi, an NYC Transit contract executive, said at Monday’s Metropolitan Transportation Authority board meeting. He said the barriers would prevent people from falling or leaping into the path of a train, as well as keep litter bugs from throwing fire-sparking trash onto the tracks. MTA officials are suggesting a 4 1/2 feet high automated platform gate be built on the L line's Third Ave. station. (THEODORE PARISIENNE/FOR NEW YORK DAILY NEWS) MTA board member Charles Moerdler thanked agency officials for deciding to test the life-saving equipment after he’s been “screaming about platform doors” for years. The 20-month contract will go to a single firm to design, build and maintain the platform barrier. Crews will build it while the station is closed for 15 months beginning in April 2019. Source: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/mta-seeks-contractor-subway-platform-safety-barrier-article-1.3692396 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6 Limited Posted December 13, 2017 Share #2 Posted December 13, 2017 But how will riders get to the platform after escaping delayed trains? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucey Posted December 13, 2017 Share #3 Posted December 13, 2017 4.5 feet high?? I'm 6'1, and I can jump that. Anyone that ran track can jump that. Meaning it won't stop litter or suicide attempts/track incursions. Why does always half-ass everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted December 14, 2017 Share #4 Posted December 14, 2017 5 hours ago, Deucey said: 4.5 feet high?? I'm 6'1, and I can jump that. Anyone that ran track can jump that. Meaning it won't stop litter or suicide attempts/track incursions. Why does always half-ass everything? It might not stop litter, but I'm willing to bet that most of the people who do suicide attempts aren't exactly the most athletic people on earth. Plus at least it stops the crazy subway pushers. That being said they should go for at least 5 or 6 feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucey Posted December 14, 2017 Share #5 Posted December 14, 2017 8 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said: It might not stop litter, but I'm willing to bet that most of the people who do suicide attempts aren't exactly the most athletic people on earth. Plus at least it stops the crazy subway pushers. That being said they should go for at least 5 or 6 feet. Motivated people overcome limitations. Despite the fence, people still die of suicide on the Golden Gate and GWB. This is a waste of funds just to appear to be doing something substantive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenSin Posted December 14, 2017 Share #6 Posted December 14, 2017 How does this prevent littering? A lot of litterers do it on purpose, which means this will be just like a basketball game with one long (lengthwise) loop. This needs to be airtight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted December 14, 2017 Author Share #7 Posted December 14, 2017 12 hours ago, bobtehpanda said: It might not stop litter, but I'm willing to bet that most of the people who do suicide attempts aren't exactly the most athletic people on earth. Plus at least it stops the crazy subway pushers. That being said they should go for at least 5 or 6 feet. It should block out everything, just like the picture above. That picture in the article though... Geez... Look at how clean everything is... 1 hour ago, CenSin said: How does this prevent littering? A lot of litterers do it on purpose, which means this will be just like a basketball game with one long (lengthwise) loop. This needs to be airtight. That's what I want to know. Nasty people will be nasty.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GojiMet86 Posted December 14, 2017 Share #8 Posted December 14, 2017 Maybe that's the point. Throw their hands in the air and say "We tried and it doesn't work". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted December 14, 2017 Share #9 Posted December 14, 2017 3 hours ago, CenSin said: How does this prevent littering? A lot of litterers do it on purpose, which means this will be just like a basketball game with one long (lengthwise) loop. This needs to be airtight. Psychological barriers are just as important as physical ones. Some people are just not wiling to put in the extra effort. 1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said: It should block out everything, just like the picture above. That picture in the article though... Geez... Look at how clean everything is... That's what I want to know. Nasty people will be nasty.... I can understand why they don't, because that'd be a lot more engineering work; a lot of the stations do not have matching ceiling heights, while the fully enclosed stations you see abroad were usually designed with it in mind. Paris has a lot of half-height doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6 Limited Posted December 15, 2017 Share #10 Posted December 15, 2017 How do platform doors work exactly? How do they know when the train doors open? How will this affect garbage and work trains? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucey Posted December 15, 2017 Share #11 Posted December 15, 2017 33 minutes ago, N6 Limited said: How do platform doors work exactly? How do they know when the train doors open? How will this affect garbage and work trains? There's a sensor or trip that allows the platform doors to open when the train is in the correct position, like the AirTrain and other peoplemovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted December 15, 2017 Share #12 Posted December 15, 2017 Some folks have been adamant about platform barriers for years on end & I'm just not seeing this great benefit that warrants the adamancy for them.... Yes, you don't want anybody accidentally falling onto the tracks, but at the same time, people are not falling onto trackage for this to be of any immediate concern right now... New Yorkers in general have an impatient disposition about us, not a savage one, per se... The lot of us on here have seen platforms packed to the brim from start to finish at, at least one station... And in those instances, how many London bridges went falling down, falling down? Suffice it to say, I foresee two immediate negatives with them... One being more of an attractant for the homeless to sleep alongside them (some already sleep alongside the walls on the side platforms as It is); now you'd introduce such a phenomenon on island platforms, which are generally the busiest stations (for obvious reasons).... The other being, simply put, a rise in physical violence.... You think the bumping & pushing & shoving to get onto a train is bad now - Oh man, wait til these platform barriers get installed!!! I find the term safety barrier here to be ironic as hell.... And god forbid the t/o doesn't stop in the exact spot... You'll have riders up in arms about that too... For some strange reason, I notice that riders tend to get miffed on the very rare occasion a train has to run in reverse for a couple... inches.... Personally I think it's a pretty cool experience (probably b/c it's so rare).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3F Posted December 15, 2017 Share #13 Posted December 15, 2017 3 hours ago, B35 via Church said: Some folks have been adamant about platform barriers for years on end & I'm just not seeing this great benefit that warrants the adamancy for them.... Yes, you don't want anybody accidentally falling onto the tracks, but at the same time, people are not falling onto trackage for this to be of any immediate concern right now... New Yorkers in general have an impatient disposition about us, not a savage one, per se... The lot of us on here have seen platforms packed to the brim from start to finish at, at least one station... And in those instances, how many London bridges went falling down, falling down? Suffice it to say, I foresee two immediate negatives with them... One being more of an attractant for the homeless to sleep alongside them (some already sleep alongside the walls on the side platforms as It is); now you'd introduce such a phenomenon on island platforms, which are generally the busiest stations (for obvious reasons).... The other being, simply put, a rise in physical violence.... You think the bumping & pushing & shoving to get onto a train is bad now - Oh man, wait til these platform barriers get installed!!! I find the term safety barrier here to be ironic as hell.... And god forbid the t/o doesn't stop in the exact spot... You'll have riders up in arms about that too... For some strange reason, I notice that riders tend to get miffed on the very rare occasion a train has to run in reverse for a couple... inches.... Personally I think it's a pretty cool experience (probably b/c it's so rare).... Well, this is being installed on the Canarsie Line, which uses CBTC. I presume the MTA considers the CBTC precise enough to match the train doors to the platform doors. In addition, if they are smart, they will make the PSDs wider than the train doors, so that there is still a margin for error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted December 15, 2017 Share #14 Posted December 15, 2017 5 hours ago, B35 via Church said: Some folks have been adamant about platform barriers for years on end & I'm just not seeing this great benefit that warrants the adamancy for them.... Yes, you don't want anybody accidentally falling onto the tracks, but at the same time, people are not falling onto trackage for this to be of any immediate concern right now... New Yorkers in general have an impatient disposition about us, not a savage one, per se... The lot of us on here have seen platforms packed to the brim from start to finish at, at least one station... And in those instances, how many London bridges went falling down, falling down? Suffice it to say, I foresee two immediate negatives with them... One being more of an attractant for the homeless to sleep alongside them (some already sleep alongside the walls on the side platforms as It is); now you'd introduce such a phenomenon on island platforms, which are generally the busiest stations (for obvious reasons).... The other being, simply put, a rise in physical violence.... You think the bumping & pushing & shoving to get onto a train is bad now - Oh man, wait til these platform barriers get installed!!! I find the term safety barrier here to be ironic as hell.... And god forbid the t/o doesn't stop in the exact spot... You'll have riders up in arms about that too... For some strange reason, I notice that riders tend to get miffed on the very rare occasion a train has to run in reverse for a couple... inches.... Personally I think it's a pretty cool experience (probably b/c it's so rare).... For this reason, PSDs are normally bigger than the actual train doors, so that you have like +/- 3-6 inches of leeway. I think that at the very least, the PSDs will reduce the occurrence of rushing to get onto trains, since the door positions will now be clearly marked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGA Link N Train Posted December 16, 2017 Share #15 Posted December 16, 2017 My only issue with platform barriers. first, the '46's, '68's, and '68A's would need to retire and be replaced by 60' train cars Gap Fillers like the one at Union Square. Other than that, those are the only issues that I can currently point out at the current moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted December 16, 2017 Share #16 Posted December 16, 2017 18 hours ago, bobtehpanda said: For this reason, PSDs are normally bigger than the actual train doors, so that you have like +/- 3-6 inches of leeway. I think that at the very least, the PSDs will reduce the occurrence of rushing to get onto trains, since the door positions will now be clearly marked. 3-6 inch margin total from door-to-door or a 3-6 inch margin per door? (I'll admit that I haven't paid any attention to such distances on any of the AIRTRAIN stations, for example)... In any case, I don't see these barriers/PSD's doing anything (meaning, for worse or for better) to quell the hastiness of passengers boarding the train, per se.... That has more to do with (sense of) reliability, and quite frankly, just how crowded the arriving train will be when it gets to your station.... The combination of the two, to me, is the real reason you're seeing an increase in the amount of pushing/shoving & what not.... This wasn't as apparent, say, a decade ago or so..... You don't feel as if your train's going to arrive (promptly) - and when it does, you want be the first one on it, NQA.... This, even though you have the countdown clocks and/or whatever app of choice at your disposal.... When I used to take the LIRR & get off at Atlantic for the Brighton line to Church av., I would constantly let B's and/or Q's (plural) bypass me, until one arrives where I can get on with a certain ease.... Most trains I think I ever let pass was 4 or 5 & I wasn't angered in the slightest.... I simply refuse to force my way onto a train & I don't like that feeling of having to "plan" my "escape route" upon getting off of a packed train 1-2 stations before the fact.... Anyway, I would sometimes laugh out loud (literally) when I'd see ppl. sardine & slither their way into any nook & cranny they can find on the train present at the station... "You all go the f*** ahead" - I have no qualms stepping aside if I start seeing backs & faces damn near imprinted on the door{s} as a train is arriving.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR503 Posted December 16, 2017 Share #17 Posted December 16, 2017 25 minutes ago, LGA Link N train said: My only issue with platform barriers. first, the '46's, '68's, and '68A's would need to retire and be replaced by 60' train cars Gap Fillers like the one at Union Square. Other than that, those are the only issues that I can currently point out at the current moment There's a reason they're doing this on the -- it has a uniform fleet and CBTC (which shrinks the potential for error). If the MTA decides to go ahead with this, it'll take a while, and probably require CBTC, so the 75' cars will probably be gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave2836 Posted December 16, 2017 Share #18 Posted December 16, 2017 On 12/14/2017 at 9:23 AM, CenSin said: How does this prevent littering? A lot of litterers do it on purpose, which means this will be just like a basketball game with one long (lengthwise) loop. This needs to be airtight. The culture of how the public views the NYC Transit and how to conduct themselves MUST change first for this to be effective. Otherwise it will be repurposed as a graffiti wall, another point of failure causing delays, or worse, an unintentional accident waiting to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porter Posted December 16, 2017 Share #19 Posted December 16, 2017 On 12/13/2017 at 5:00 PM, Deucey said: 4.5 feet high?? I'm 6'1, and I can jump that. Anyone that ran track can jump that. Meaning it won't stop litter or suicide attempts/track incursions. Why does always half-ass everything? Look at it this way: it won't stop suicide or litter, but it'll stop accidents and murders. That's at least, as you said, half. If people really want to off themselves, they'll find a way, so I'm more concerned with stopping accidents and murders. The litter issue, however, infuriates me. We need more waste receptacles and stricter enforcement of anti-littering laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted December 16, 2017 Share #20 Posted December 16, 2017 4 hours ago, B35 via Church said: 3-6 inch margin total from door-to-door or a 3-6 inch margin per door? (I'll admit that I haven't paid any attention to such distances on any of the AIRTRAIN stations, for example)... In any case, I don't see these barriers/PSD's doing anything (meaning, for worse or for better) to quell the hastiness of passengers boarding the train, per se.... That has more to do with (sense of) reliability, and quite frankly, just how crowded the arriving train will be when it gets to your station.... The combination of the two, to me, is the real reason you're seeing an increase in the amount of pushing/shoving & what not.... This wasn't as apparent, say, a decade ago or so..... You don't feel as if your train's going to arrive (promptly) - and when it does, you want be the first one on it, NQA.... This, even though you have the countdown clocks and/or whatever app of choice at your disposal.... When I used to take the LIRR & get off at Atlantic for the Brighton line to Church av., I would constantly let B's and/or Q's (plural) bypass me, until one arrives where I can get on with a certain ease.... Most trains I think I ever let pass was 4 or 5 & I wasn't angered in the slightest.... I simply refuse to force my way onto a train & I don't like that feeling of having to "plan" my "escape route" upon getting off of a packed train 1-2 stations before the fact.... Anyway, I would sometimes laugh out loud (literally) when I'd see ppl. sardine & slither their way into any nook & cranny they can find on the train present at the station... "You all go the f*** ahead" - I have no qualms stepping aside if I start seeing backs & faces damn near imprinted on the door{s} as a train is arriving.... Per door when I've seen it. Trains can only overshoot so far before not lining up with PSDs is the least of their problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted December 17, 2017 Share #21 Posted December 17, 2017 5 hours ago, bobtehpanda said: Per door when I've seen it. Trains can only overshoot so far before not lining up with PSDs is the least of their problems.... Alright, cool (with the 3-6 inch thing).... The rest of it... Well overshooting isn't my main concern, but despite that, PSD's, after the fact, don't need to be installed anywhere in the subway system, period... --------------------------------------------------- I'm going to go ahead & say it.... We're (NYC) too busy trying to play catch up with other countries when it comes to a lot of things regarding public transit (instead of being innovative/setting a standard) & it is irritating to me.... You ask your average New Yorker (native, transplant, whatever) what makes NYC's subway system great, and the only thing (well, besides answers of NOTHING) is the 24/7 aspect of it all.... PSD's to me is something that should've... maybe.... been installed as stations were first being built (speaking of innovation).... Not in the midst of delays within the subway system rising higher than Mt. Sinabung.... Not in the midst of groundbreaking for (the eventual completion of) a brand new subway line.... Instead, resorting to want to prop these things up to (if you ask me) appeal to foreign tourists ("see, our subway system's just like yours.... kinda") and/or migrants to this city.... It's a waste of money AFAIC.... The fact that I've come upon an article that brings up PSD's as being a damn filth deterrent (onto the tracks) is enough, but I'm not buying their installation at that station on the really being about safety either..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucey Posted December 17, 2017 Share #22 Posted December 17, 2017 3 hours ago, B35 via Church said: Alright, cool (with the 3-6 inch thing).... The rest of it... Well overshooting isn't my main concern, but despite that, PSD's, after the fact, don't need to be installed anywhere in the subway system, period... --------------------------------------------------- I'm going to go ahead & say it.... We're (NYC) too busy trying to play catch up with other countries when it comes to a lot of things regarding public transit (instead of being innovative/setting a standard) & it is irritating to me.... You ask your average New Yorker (native, transplant, whatever) what makes NYC's subway system great, and the only thing (well, besides answers of NOTHING) is the 24/7 aspect of it all.... PSD's to me is something that should've... maybe.... been installed as stations were first being built (speaking of innovation).... Not in the midst of delays within the subway system rising higher than Mt. Sinabung.... Not in the midst of groundbreaking for (the eventual completion of) a brand new subway line.... Instead, resorting to want to prop these things up to (if you ask me) appeal to foreign tourists ("see, our subway system's just like yours.... kinda") and/or migrants to this city.... It's a waste of money AFAIC.... The fact that I've come upon an article that brings up PSD's as being a damn filth deterrent (onto the tracks) is enough, but I'm not buying their installation at that station on the really being about safety either..... If they actually installed PSDs to reach the ceiling, then it'd be a safety device. Doing them 4ft high might save folks falling or being pushed (and after my near miss on the at MetroTech), there's some good to it. But it's really just doing something just for the appearance of doing something. As far as innovation, in a way, this is where the GOP are right - they commiserate about the private market innovating while bureaucracy stagnates, and validates that view. But, since the only businesses that take on PPPs tend to be large bureaucratic corporations hell-bent on protecting revenue rather than earning reputation and business, you could put Transdev/Veolia in charge and nothing would change for the better. LA's MTA started a program last year to let businesses small and large investigate that Authority's transit issues - minor and major - and propose solutions they could be awarded PPP contracts for managing implementation. They'll announce winning solutions in 2018. This is what should be doing - getting essential feedback and solutions from it's customer base/stakeholders and implementing them, but that's not the MO here. So here's hoping the new guy manages to fix this system so we SIers aren't stuck with two of the three lines by the ferry out of service at the same time overnight and weekends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryB Posted December 21, 2017 Share #23 Posted December 21, 2017 On 12/16/2017 at 7:08 AM, LGA Link N train said: My only issue with platform barriers. first, the '46's, '68's, and '68A's would need to retire and be replaced by 60' train cars Gap Fillers like the one at Union Square. Other than that, those are the only issues that I can currently point out at the current moment Currently I think the only line you could put PSDs on is . In the future maybe after CBTC and Grand central shuttle after upgrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.