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Lil 57

You are the head of the MTA and you have run into a major budget cut (Scenario)

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Let's play a game. You are the head of the (MTA) and you have run into a major budget cut, like the 2010 one. You have no choice but to cut and reduce service on some routes. You need to see which cuts would be the least effective to riders while saving money. Your fellow (MTA) buddy says that in order to save money you need to...

- Cut service ENTIRELY on 10 local routes.

- Cut service ENTIRELY  on 5 express routes.

- Cut Weekend Service ENTIRELY on 5 local routes.

- Reduce service on 30 local routes.

- Reduce service on 15 express routes.

What routes would you choose to cut and why?  

Edited by Lil 57

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In my position, I'd have no choice but to reduce weekend service on 15 Express routes EQUALLY and maintain vital local Bus Service intact for passengers to use. Noting Express Buses during weekdays are normally to get to work Downtown, not many people would be using it on the weekends.

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2 hours ago, WestFarms36 said:

In my position, I'd have no choice but to reduce weekend service on 15 Express routes EQUALLY and maintain vital local Bus Service intact for passengers to use. Noting Express Buses during weekdays are normally to get to work Downtown, not many people would be using it on the weekends.

That's simply not true. People like myself who live in a neighborhood not near the subway use the express buses regularly on weekends. No one in their right mind wants to take a local bus and three trains to reach their destination which is what I would have to do in most cases regardless of where I'm going, or face a longer walk. The (1) train to 96th, switch to an express train to get Downtown faster and maybe some other subway. The only express buses that run on the weekends are as follows:

BxM1, BxM2, BxM3, BxM4, BxM6, BxM7, BxM8, BxM9, BxM10, BxM11

BM1, BM2, BM3, BM4, X27, X28. All of the BMs only run hourly service and only run on Saturday. The X27 and X28 run every half hour to every 45 minutes to an hour Saturday and Sunday.

The QM1, QM2, QM4, QM5, and QM6 all run hourly service Saturday and Sunday.

The X1, X10 and X17, run more frequently but generally every 30 minutes to an hour Saturday and Sunday, with the X1 seeing more of a bump. 

Service is not that generous as there isn't that much to cut and very few of these buses are close to subways in the areas they serve.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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Eh, I gave it a shot. It's hard trying to maintain coverage and reduce service. I did these with the goal of maintaining existing coverage as much as possible. 

10 Local Routes to Cut:

B65, Bx24, Bx38 , M12, Q1, Q20B, Q34, Q48, Q102, S66, 

Each of these routes have alternatives more or less, and riders can use other bus routes. Some trips though, like the Q102, would have to be made by subway, but that would be a negligible amount, since very few people go to Roosevelt Island anyway. For the Q20B and Q34, having the Q20A and Q25 (respectively) as the main local service on their respective trunks would make the frequencies more stable. For the Bx38 Q20B, and Q34, additional bus service would be added (but combined frequencies would still be less than they currently are). 

 

5 Express Routes to Cut:

BM4, QM10, QM21, QM40, QM42

The QM10 and QM40 have abysmal ridership as it is. If nothing it done for those routes, then they will continue to only get handfuls of people per bus (except for a couple strong trips in each rush hour). In the PM, they're often slower than the subway, because of the LIE routing. In the PM, the QM10 is scheduled a few minutes before the QM12, which makes similar stops in Queens (except LeFrak City, but nobody is on at that point). 

The QM21 I discontinued mainly because the X63 is available for most trips (the QM18 is available also for certain stops). Evening service would be added on the X63, and perhaps some additional rush hour service. 

The BM4 I decided to cut because Gerritsen Beach just doesn't use their buses like that. All the other BM's have more ridership on the tail end of their routes. Not to mention the BM1 and BM3 serve as alternatives for most of its route.

The QM42 does okay in the AM, but in the PM, it just doesn't pick-up many. It's the lowest preforming 3rd Avenue Express Bus (from Queens). People using the 38th Street and 55 Street stops can still make their way to the QM12

 

Weekend Service Cuts:

B20, Bx34, M8, Q15A, S76

They were the only routes which weekend service could be eliminated in their respective borough, either for duplication to other bus routes, low ridership, or both. Additional B83 and Q15 service would be provided to compensate for lost B20 and Q15A service, respectively. 

 

30 Local Bus Service Reductions:

1. Weekend B2 Evening Service (after 9 PM) discontinued. Sunday service will start at 9 AM.

2. B7 service West of Flatbush Avenue discontinued.

3. B11 Weekend service will operate every 20 minutes instead of every 10-12 minutes (I feel this routes operates too frequently on weekends)

4. B17 service operates every 6-7 minutes (Instead of every 5-6) during the rush, all trips go to Seaview 

5. B20 service North of Broadway Junction Discontinued.

6. B37 service will start at 9 AM on Weekends. Sunday service will end at 9 PM

7. B60 service is rerouted to serve the Paerdegat Avenue section during rush hours, terminates at Rockaway Parkway (L) at all other times.

8. B70 service rerouted via Bay Ridge Avenue, 3 Avenue, and Marine Avenue to Bay Ridge-95 Street (R) Weekend mornings and Sunday evenings replace portion of B37 

9. Q19 service rerouted down 108 Street and Roosevelt Avenue to replace Q48 bus

10. Q11 service will be combined with the Q21. Service to Howard Beach, Old Howard Beach, and Hamilton Beach. Old Howard Beach and Hamilton Beach buses will run to Lindenwood and relabeled Q21. 

11. Q22 truncated to Beach 116 Street at all times

12. Q41 service terminates at the Rockaway Boulevard (A) station (coming from Jamaica)

13. Every other Q47 bus will short-turn at Bulova Corporate Ctr during the rush hours

14. Q59 service will be streamlined to run with the Q54 within Brooklyn west of Graham Avenue

15. Q101 service will terminate at Queensboro Plaza, at all times

16. M3 and M4 service will terminate at 98 Street & 5 Avenue, at all times. Additional service will be added on the M1 and M2 to compensate for lost service (overall 5th Ave Cut)

17. M8 service runs between 6th Avenue and Avenue D

18. M101 service would terminate at 96 Street & Lexington Avenue at all times. Additional M103 service would be added to compensate for M101 service (overall 3rd/Lex Cut)

19. Bx5 weekend service to Bay Plaza discontinued (barely anyone rides it, mainly because it doesn't stop with the Bx12).

20. Bx6 local operates every 20 minutes during the midday hours and every 24 on weekends. Additional service will be provided via the Bx46. 

21. Bx46 Extended to Washington Heights via Southern Boulevard and the Bx6. Service will operate every 20 minutes on weekdays, and every 24 minutes on weekends. No sevice will be provided on Longwood Avenue North of Southern Boulevard

22. Bx34 Service on weekdays will end at 11 PM

23. Bx22 midday and evening service to Bedford Park will be discontinued

24. Bx30 Saturday service would operate every 20 (instead of 15) on Saturdays, and every 30 (instead of 20) on Sundays, service ends at 9 PM on Sundays, starts at 8 AM on Saturday and Sunday.

25. Bx31 Weekend Service runs every 30 minutes. Short-turns from Boston Road to Woodlawn on Saturdays during the daytime (6 AM to 8 PM) will operate as well.

26. Off-Peak S44 service terminates in Port Richmond

27. S51 service during weekends will run to Oakwood Beach to replace parts of the S76 

28. S55 service terminates with the S56 in Huguenot. Service on Bloomingdale Road, Amboy Road, and Seguine Avenue discontinued

29. S59 service (except trippers) along Hylan Boulevard discontinued. Weekend service will run every 15 minutes to compensate for lost S44 service.

30. S61 service operates every 20 minutes on Saturdays, and every 30 minutes on Sundays throughout the day

 

15 Express Bus Reductions:

1. BxM3 Sunday Evening Service discontinued. Last bus to Midtown departs at 6:35 PM, Last bus to Yonkers departs at 8:00 PM

2. BxM4 Sunday Service discontinued. Saturday service will run until 6 PM (from Woodlawn) and until 7:30 PM (from Manhattan)

3. BxM6 evening and weekend service discontinued. BxM10 buses will deviate to Parkchester and serve all BxM6 stops. 

4. X63 service will be streamlined in the AM to run via 23 Street, Madison Avenue, and 57 Street, to 3rd Avenue

5. X64 service will be streamlined in the AM to run via 23 Street, Madison Avenue, and 57 Street, to 3rd Avenue

6. X28 service will terminate in Coney Island on Weekends (no service to Sea Gate). 

7. X12 AM service will operate only to 23 Street while X42 service runs (this will be moot pretty soon, anyways).

8. X10B runs only to Victory and Richmond

9. X11 starts and ends at Victory and Richmond

10. X17 Service to Tottenville discontinued (again, moot pretty soon). 

11. X31 service would run every 12 minutes instead of every 10 minutes in the AM, and every 15 minutes instead of every 10 minutes in the PM. Service starts/ends in the Heartland Village

12. QM17 service will terminate at Beach 20 Street and Seagirt Boulevard.

13. BM5 and QM15 will operate combined on Saturdays

14. QM15 service will operate every 7-8 minutes during the AM rush (instead of every 6-7 minutes), and every 12 minutes (instead of every 10 minutes) during the PM rush

15. QM4 service past 9:40 PM on Saturdays and past 6:40 PM on Sundays discontinued.

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven
Forgot some things.
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1 hour ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Eh, I gave it a shot. It's hard trying to maintain coverage and reduce service. I did these with the goal of maintaining existing coverage as much as possible. 

10 Local Routes to Cut:

B65, Bx24, Bx38 , M12, Q1, Q20B, Q34, Q48, Q102, S66, 

Each of these routes have alternatives more or less, and riders can use other bus routes. Some trips though, like the Q102, would have to be made by subway, but that would be a negligible amount, since very few people go to Roosevelt Island anyway. For the Q20B and Q34, having the Q20A and Q25 (respectively) as the main local service on their respective trunks would make the frequencies more stable. For the Bx38 Q20B, and Q34, additional bus service would be added (but combined frequencies would still be less than they currently are). 

 

5 Express Routes to Cut:

BM4, QM10, QM21, QM40, QM42

The QM10 and QM40 have abysmal ridership as it is. If nothing it done for those routes, then they will continue to only get handfuls of people per bus (except for a couple strong trips in each rush hour). In the PM, they're often slower than the subway, because of the LIE routing. In the PM, the QM10 is scheduled a few minutes before the QM12, which makes similar stops in Queens (except LeFrak City, but nobody is on at that point). 

The QM21 I discontinued mainly because the X63 is available for most trips (the QM18 is available also for certain stops). Evening service would be added on the X63, and perhaps some additional rush hour service. 

The BM4 I decided to cut because Gerritsen Beach just doesn't use their buses like that. All the other BM's have more ridership on the tail end of their routes. Not to mention the BM1 and BM3 serve as alternatives for most of its route.

The QM42 does okay in the AM, but in the PM, it just doesn't pick-up many. It's the lowest preforming 3rd Avenue Express Bus (from Queens). People using the 38th Street and 55 Street stops can still make their way to the QM12

 

Weekend Service Cuts:

B20, Bx34, M8, Q15A, S76

They were the only routes which weekend service could be eliminated in their respective borough, either for duplication to other bus routes, low ridership, or both. Additional B83 and Q15 service would be provided to compensate for lost B20 and Q15A service, respectively. 

 

30 Local Bus Service Reductions:

1. Weekend B2 Evening Service (after 9 PM) discontinued. Sunday service will start at 9 AM.

2. B7 service West of Flatbush Avenue discontinued.

3. B11 Weekend service will operate every 20 minutes instead of every 10-12 minutes (I feel this routes operates too frequently on weekends)

4. B17 service operates every 6-7 minutes (Instead of every 5-6) during the rush, all trips go to Seaview 

5. B20 service North of Broadway Junction Discontinued.

6. B37 service will start at 9 AM on Weekends. Sunday service will end at 9 PM

7. B60 service is rerouted to serve the Paerdegat Avenue section during rush hours, terminates at Rockaway Parkway (L) at all other times.

8. B70 service rerouted via Bay Ridge Avenue, 3 Avenue, and Marine Avenue to Bay Ridge-95 Street (R) Weekend mornings and Sunday evenings replace portion of B37 

9. Q19 service rerouted down 108 Street and Roosevelt Avenue to replace Q48 bus

10. Q11 service will be combined with the Q21. Service to Howard Beach, Old Howard Beach, and Hamilton Beach. Old Howard Beach and Hamilton Beach buses will run to Lindenwood and relabeled Q21. 

11. Q22 truncated to Beach 116 Street at all times

12. Q41 service terminates at the Rockaway Boulevard (A) station (coming from Jamaica)

13. Every other Q47 bus will short-turn at Bulova Corporate Ctr during the rush hours

14. Q59 service will be streamlined to run with the Q54 within Brooklyn west of Graham Avenue

15. Q101 service will terminate at Queensboro Plaza, at all times

16. M3 and M4 service will terminate at 98 Street & 5 Avenue, at all times. Additional service will be added on the M1 and M2 to compensate for lost service (overall 5th Ave Cut)

17. M8 service runs between 6th Avenue and Avenue D

18. M101 service would terminate at 96 Street & Lexington Avenue at all times. Additional M103 service would be added to compensate for M101 service (overall 3rd/Lex Cut)

19. Bx5 weekend service to Bay Plaza discontinued (barely anyone rides it, mainly because it doesn't stop with the Bx12).

20. Bx6 local operates every 20 minutes during the midday hours and every 24 on weekends. Additional service will be provided via the Bx46. 

21. Bx46 Extended to Washington Heights via Southern Boulevard and the Bx6. Service will operate every 20 minutes on weekdays, and every 24 minutes on weekends. No sevice will be provided on Longwood Avenue North of Southern Boulevard

22. Bx34 Service on weekdays will end at 11 PM

23. Bx22 midday and evening service to Bedford Park will be discontinued

24. Bx30 Saturday service would operate every 20 (instead of 15) on Saturdays, and every 30 (instead of 20) on Sundays, service ends at 9 PM on Sundays, starts at 8 AM on Saturday and Sunday.

25. Bx31 Weekend Service runs every 30 minutes. Short-turns from Boston Road to Woodlawn on Saturdays during the daytime (6 AM to 8 PM) will operate as well.

26. Off-Peak S44 service terminates in Port Richmond

27. S51 service during weekends will run to Oakwood Beach to replace parts of the S76 

28. S55 service terminates with the S56 in Huguenot. Service on Bloomingdale Road, Amboy Road, and Seguine Avenue discontinued

29. S59 service (except trippers) along Hylan Boulevard discontinued. Weekend service will run every 15 minutes to compensate for lost S44 service.

30. S61 service operates every 20 minutes on Saturdays, and every 30 minutes on Sundays throughout the day

 

15 Express Bus Reductions:

1. BxM3 Sunday Evening Service discontinued. Last bus to Midtown departs at 6:35 PM, Last bus to Yonkers departs at 8:00 PM

2. BxM4 Sunday Service discontinued. Saturday service will run until 6 PM (from Woodlawn) and until 7:30 PM (from Manhattan)

3. BxM6 evening and weekend service discontinued. BxM10 buses will deviate to Parkchester and serve all BxM6 stops. 

4. X63 service will be streamlined in the AM to run via 23 Street, Madison Avenue, and 57 Street, to 3rd Avenue

5. X64 service will be streamlined in the AM to run via 23 Street, Madison Avenue, and 57 Street, to 3rd Avenue

6. X28 service will terminate in Coney Island on Weekends (no service to Sea Gate). 

7. X12 AM service will operate only to 23 Street while X42 service runs (this will be moot pretty soon, anyways).

8. X10B runs only to Victory and Richmond

9. X11 starts and ends at Victory and Richmond

10. X17 Service to Tottenville discontinued (again, moot pretty soon). 

11. X31 service would run every 12 minutes instead of every 10 minutes in the AM, and every 15 minutes instead of every 10 minutes in the PM. Service starts/ends in the Heartland Village

12. QM17 service will terminate at Beach 20 Street and Seagirt Boulevard.

13. BM5 and QM15 will operate combined on Saturdays

14. QM15 service will operate every 7-8 minutes during the AM rush (instead of every 6-7 minutes), and every 12 minutes (instead of every 10 minutes) during the PM rush

15. QM4 service past 9:40 PM on Saturdays and past 6:40 PM on Sundays discontinued.

M3 and M4 Cut at 98 St going Southbound?

Also the Bx6 Local could be COMPLETELY CUT, the Bx6 +SBS+ could compensate for the local.

Edited by WestFarms36

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Discontinued Routes

1. Bx6 Local

The Bx6 +Select Bus can compensate for the local, and noting that the +SBS+ Counterpart carries more people than the local due to convenience and accomodations. The +SBS+ would then operate 24/7. I would atleast add an +SBS+ Stop on St. Nicholas Avenue to save the (C) Transfer.

2. Bx42 95% of the route and stops is shared with the Bx40 in case in point SUNY Maritime College is vital to Bus service and with the Bx42 there is lots of redundancies and I wouldn't have that sticking around too long.

3. Bx33 Overall being a short route, noting that it is more of an Interborough Connector, it is insignificant overall and would be the most preferable to cut instead of more vital routes.

4. Bx2 98% of the route is shared with the Bx1 along with it's stops and many redundancies leading to costly operation, to reach The Hub, alternatives as the Bx19, the (2) and (5) trains can be used as well.

Route Reductions

1. Bx28 It would be cut the route back and send it to Paul Av - 205 St with the Bx22* and Bx26, the (4) would serve as its alternative down Jerome Avenue.

2. Bx11 It would cut to El Grant Highway, E 170 St. This would reduce the Clusterf*ck of buses sharing the same terminal and already congested 181 St. Connections btw the Bx11 and Bx35 would occur at El Grant Hwy.

Service Improvements

1. Extend the Bx22 to Paul Av - 205 St At all times, including weekends.

2. Bx35, Adjust service Capacity to accomodate riders in Washington Heights seeking the Bx11 in the Bronx.

3. Bx21 Articulate the route to accomodate the crowds and Increase the amount of Buses during rush hour.

4. Bx13 To Compensate E 161 St riders the loss of the Bx6 Local, Bx13 Buses would terminate at E 163 St, 3 Av at all times.

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There’s this trend of wanting to eliminate (or even reduce) service, and I can’t understand why. Yes, many of the bus routes are outdated, but I don’t we should be so quick to just chop away routes as the perfect solution.

Just looking at some of these proposals tell me that a lot of you either don’t ride the routes very often, or just look at a map and decide what should run where. 

If you’re going to propose reductions or cuts, put yourselves in the passengers’ shoes and think about how they would be impacted. 

 

End of rant.

 

Edited by S78 via Hylan
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3 hours ago, S78 via Hylan said:

There’s this trend of wanting to eliminate (or even reduce) service, and I can’t understand why. Yes, many of the bus routes are outdated, but I don’t we should be so quick to just chop away routes as the perfect solution.

Just looking at some of these proposals tell me that a lot of you either don’t ride the routes very often, or just look at a map and decide what should run where. 

If you’re going to propose reductions or cuts, put yourselves in the passengers’ shoes and think about how they would be impacted. 

 

End of rant.

 

They don't which is the problem. BM5 has the most knowledge about these routes IMO, and his proposal make the most sense, but even with his some tweaking would be needed, as some buses would be packed.

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5 hours ago, WestFarms36 said:

M3 and M4 Cut at 98 St going Southbound?

Also the Bx6 Local could be COMPLETELY CUT, the Bx6 +SBS+ could compensate for the local.

1. The X28 to Coney Island... You don't save that much time doing that. It takes maybe 5 minutes to go to Sea Gate from Coney Island via Surf Avenue. I would run more hourly service, though that wouldn't be possible all day Saturday and Sunday, but that would be better in terms of savings, this way you make accessibility there.

2. I'd do the same thing with the X27. Look at hourly service where possible, this way you can keep more service elsewhere.

3. BxM6 service I don't agree with. The first two stops can get slammed to the City, especially that first stop because it's the furthest from the subway and the Bx4A runs like crap. You'd have to increase service on the BxM10 and you'd likely confuse passengers so I don't think it's worth it. I've actually been on one of those combined BxM10 trips. They only make the last BxM6 stop (Met Oval) then continue on the BxM10 route. The people by the Cross Bronx Expressway don't use the service like that on weekends but still. Those other two stops should be served, especially the one by the (6) train stop. Lots of elderly and disabled typed get on. With the savings from the X27 and X28, perhaps you could just keep the BxM6 on weekends.

4. I would not eliminate the BxM3 and BxM4 on weekends. Instead I would start them later on Saturday and end them earlier on Sunday. Start them both at 08:00 on Saturday. End them at 22:00 on Saturday and Sunday. Not great but at least you keep most of the service in tact. They can take Metro-North if they need later service on the BxM4 (City Ticket) and use the BxM1 or BxM2 for those along the BxM3 in Riverdale and Yonkers. Others can use Metro-North by Fordham Oval, etc. where possible.

I think more service reductions could be spread around the express bus routes to ease the pain and keep more service.

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Why would I even want to re-enact the 2010 budget cuts?

This comes across to me as nothing more than you asking, which routes do we believe should be ENTIRELY cut, which routes should have their weekend service ENTIRELY cut, and which routes should have their service reduced......

Look, while I do think there's waste in the system, there isn't near that much waste to the tune of what you're indirectly asking us to opine on in such a draconian scenario:

- Cut service ENTIRELY on 10 local routes.
- Cut service ENTIRELY  on 5 express routes.
- Cut Weekend Service ENTIRELY on 5 local routes.
- Reduce service on 30 local routes.
- Reduce service on 15 express routes.

Sorry to be Mr. Killjoy here dude, but I think there's service cuts that's being passed off as redesigns for really, real.... For instance, I'm not as ecstatic about this SI bus study that some people on here are..... People don't get changes of hearts overnight & the last entity I expect to see that exuded from is the MTA......

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2 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Why would I even want to re-enact the 2010 budget cuts?

This comes across to me as nothing more than you asking, which routes do we believe should be ENTIRELY cut, which routes should have their weekend service ENTIRELY cut, and which routes should have their service reduced......

Look, while I do think there's waste in the system, there isn't near that much waste to the tune of what you're indirectly asking us to opine on in such a draconian scenario:


- Cut service ENTIRELY on 10 local routes.
- Cut service ENTIRELY  on 5 express routes.
- Cut Weekend Service ENTIRELY on 5 local routes.
- Reduce service on 30 local routes.
- Reduce service on 15 express routes.

Sorry to be Mr. Killjoy here dude, but I think there's service cuts that's being passed off as redesigns for really, real.... For instance, I'm not as ecstatic about this SI bus study that some people on here are..... People don't get changes of hearts overnight & the last entity I expect to see that exuded from is the MTA......

It's just a senario, I wouldn't want ANY routes to be cut in real life.

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8 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Eh, I gave it a shot. It's hard trying to maintain coverage and reduce service. I did these with the goal of maintaining existing coverage as much as possible. 

10 Local Routes to Cut:

B65, Bx24, Bx38 , M12, Q1, Q20B, Q34, Q48, Q102, S66, 

Each of these routes have alternatives more or less, and riders can use other bus routes. Some trips though, like the Q102, would have to be made by subway, but that would be a negligible amount, since very few people go to Roosevelt Island anyway. For the Q20B and Q34, having the Q20A and Q25 (respectively) as the main local service on their respective trunks would make the frequencies more stable. For the Bx38 Q20B, and Q34, additional bus service would be added (but combined frequencies would still be less than they currently are). 

 

5 Express Routes to Cut:

BM4, QM10, QM21, QM40, QM42

The QM10 and QM40 have abysmal ridership as it is. If nothing it done for those routes, then they will continue to only get handfuls of people per bus (except for a couple strong trips in each rush hour). In the PM, they're often slower than the subway, because of the LIE routing. In the PM, the QM10 is scheduled a few minutes before the QM12, which makes similar stops in Queens (except LeFrak City, but nobody is on at that point). 

The QM21 I discontinued mainly because the X63 is available for most trips (the QM18 is available also for certain stops). Evening service would be added on the X63, and perhaps some additional rush hour service. 

The BM4 I decided to cut because Gerritsen Beach just doesn't use their buses like that. All the other BM's have more ridership on the tail end of their routes. Not to mention the BM1 and BM3 serve as alternatives for most of its route.

The QM42 does okay in the AM, but in the PM, it just doesn't pick-up many. It's the lowest preforming 3rd Avenue Express Bus (from Queens). People using the 38th Street and 55 Street stops can still make their way to the QM12

 

Weekend Service Cuts:

B20, Bx34, M8, Q15A, S76

They were the only routes which weekend service could be eliminated in their respective borough, either for duplication to other bus routes, low ridership, or both. Additional B83 and Q15 service would be provided to compensate for lost B20 and Q15A service, respectively. 

 

30 Local Bus Service Reductions:

1. Weekend B2 Evening Service (after 9 PM) discontinued. Sunday service will start at 9 AM.

2. B7 service West of Flatbush Avenue discontinued.

3. B11 Weekend service will operate every 20 minutes instead of every 10-12 minutes (I feel this routes operates too frequently on weekends)

4. B17 service operates every 6-7 minutes (Instead of every 5-6) during the rush, all trips go to Seaview 

5. B20 service North of Broadway Junction Discontinued.

6. B37 service will start at 9 AM on Weekends. Sunday service will end at 9 PM

7. B60 service is rerouted to serve the Paerdegat Avenue section during rush hours, terminates at Rockaway Parkway (L) at all other times.

8. B70 service rerouted via Bay Ridge Avenue, 3 Avenue, and Marine Avenue to Bay Ridge-95 Street (R) Weekend mornings and Sunday evenings replace portion of B37 

9. Q19 service rerouted down 108 Street and Roosevelt Avenue to replace Q48 bus

10. Q11 service will be combined with the Q21. Service to Howard Beach, Old Howard Beach, and Hamilton Beach. Old Howard Beach and Hamilton Beach buses will run to Lindenwood and relabeled Q21. 

11. Q22 truncated to Beach 116 Street at all times

12. Q41 service terminates at the Rockaway Boulevard (A) station (coming from Jamaica)

13. Every other Q47 bus will short-turn at Bulova Corporate Ctr during the rush hours

14. Q59 service will be streamlined to run with the Q54 within Brooklyn west of Graham Avenue

15. Q101 service will terminate at Queensboro Plaza, at all times

16. M3 and M4 service will terminate at 98 Street & 5 Avenue, at all times. Additional service will be added on the M1 and M2 to compensate for lost service (overall 5th Ave Cut)

17. M8 service runs between 6th Avenue and Avenue D

18. M101 service would terminate at 96 Street & Lexington Avenue at all times. Additional M103 service would be added to compensate for M101 service (overall 3rd/Lex Cut)

19. Bx5 weekend service to Bay Plaza discontinued (barely anyone rides it, mainly because it doesn't stop with the Bx12).

20. Bx6 local operates every 20 minutes during the midday hours and every 24 on weekends. Additional service will be provided via the Bx46. 

21. Bx46 Extended to Washington Heights via Southern Boulevard and the Bx6. Service will operate every 20 minutes on weekdays, and every 24 minutes on weekends. No sevice will be provided on Longwood Avenue North of Southern Boulevard

22. Bx34 Service on weekdays will end at 11 PM

23. Bx22 midday and evening service to Bedford Park will be discontinued

24. Bx30 Saturday service would operate every 20 (instead of 15) on Saturdays, and every 30 (instead of 20) on Sundays, service ends at 9 PM on Sundays, starts at 8 AM on Saturday and Sunday.

25. Bx31 Weekend Service runs every 30 minutes. Short-turns from Boston Road to Woodlawn on Saturdays during the daytime (6 AM to 8 PM) will operate as well.

26. Off-Peak S44 service terminates in Port Richmond

27. S51 service during weekends will run to Oakwood Beach to replace parts of the S76 

28. S55 service terminates with the S56 in Huguenot. Service on Bloomingdale Road, Amboy Road, and Seguine Avenue discontinued

29. S59 service (except trippers) along Hylan Boulevard discontinued. Weekend service will run every 15 minutes to compensate for lost S44 service.

30. S61 service operates every 20 minutes on Saturdays, and every 30 minutes on Sundays throughout the day

 

15 Express Bus Reductions:

1. BxM3 Sunday Evening Service discontinued. Last bus to Midtown departs at 6:35 PM, Last bus to Yonkers departs at 8:00 PM

2. BxM4 Sunday Service discontinued. Saturday service will run until 6 PM (from Woodlawn) and until 7:30 PM (from Manhattan)

3. BxM6 evening and weekend service discontinued. BxM10 buses will deviate to Parkchester and serve all BxM6 stops. 

4. X63 service will be streamlined in the AM to run via 23 Street, Madison Avenue, and 57 Street, to 3rd Avenue

5. X64 service will be streamlined in the AM to run via 23 Street, Madison Avenue, and 57 Street, to 3rd Avenue

6. X28 service will terminate in Coney Island on Weekends (no service to Sea Gate). 

7. X12 AM service will operate only to 23 Street while X42 service runs (this will be moot pretty soon, anyways).

8. X10B runs only to Victory and Richmond

9. X11 starts and ends at Victory and Richmond

10. X17 Service to Tottenville discontinued (again, moot pretty soon). 

11. X31 service would run every 12 minutes instead of every 10 minutes in the AM, and every 15 minutes instead of every 10 minutes in the PM. Service starts/ends in the Heartland Village

12. QM17 service will terminate at Beach 20 Street and Seagirt Boulevard.

13. BM5 and QM15 will operate combined on Saturdays

14. QM15 service will operate every 7-8 minutes during the AM rush (instead of every 6-7 minutes), and every 12 minutes (instead of every 10 minutes) during the PM rush

15. QM4 service past 9:40 PM on Saturdays and past 6:40 PM on Sundays discontinued.

Let's play a different game DqnN8.gif

There would be a shit ton of money being saved in this whole gambit.... So out of ALL these service reductions you bring up, how would you redistribute these losses elsewhere throughout the system?

 

21 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

It's just a scenario, I wouldn't want ANY routes to be cut in real life.

I understand it's a scenario, and even I think there's some routes that should really cease to exist....

'aye, I don't mean to aim my frustrations (with the MTA) at you, but I come across this thread of yours & I'm like, with all that's going on with the buses & trains right now, the last thing we should be focusing on is cuts...... Especially as many you bring up in such a scenario... Lol.

Edited by B35 via Church
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4 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

and even I think there's some routes that should really cease to exist....

Like the QM3

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18 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Let's play a different game DqnN8.gif

There would be a shit ton of money being saved in this whole gambit.... So out of ALL these service reductions you bring up, how would you redistribute these losses elsewhere throughout the system?

 

I understand it's a scenario, and even I think there's some routes that should really cease to exist....

'aye, I don't mean to aim my frustrations (with the MTA) at you, but I come across this thread of yours & I'm like, with all that's going on with the buses & trains right now, the last thing we should be focusing on is cuts...... Especially as many you bring up in such a scenario... Lol.

Agreed. If we look at ridership prior to the 2010 cuts, a lot of routes that are suffering were actually doing well. Some routes have seen as much a 30% drop in ridership. That's substantial and very difficult to replace, especially with more service cuts. Then you have the ever increasing delays and fare hikes that really doesn't make it worth it to keep using public transportation. A lot of sacrifice happening for the paying customer with very little in return.

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41 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

It's just a senario, I wouldn't want ANY routes to be cut in real life.

18 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:
23 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

 and even I think there's some routes that should really cease to exist....

Like the QM3

Paradoxical.

3 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Agreed. If we look at ridership prior to the 2010 cuts, a lot of routes that are suffering were actually doing well. Some routes have seen as much a 30% drop in ridership. That's substantial and very difficult to replace, especially with more service cuts. Then you have the ever increasing delays and fare hikes that really doesn't make it worth it to keep using public transportation. A lot of sacrifice happening for the paying customer with very little in return.

An example of that was the x29... Every time I think about how they kept chipping away at it to the point where as many people stopped using it, I get miffed..... Systematic discontinuations of these routes, which to me is a complete & utter slap in the face.... But yet we get these newer routes running on coverage headways (speaking of very little in return, in a system-wide sense) & net headway increases system-wide on the "established" routes, just about every time you look around.... IMO, it's all for the sake of promoting, inducing, and implementing more SBS routes in the system...

If this is the wave of the future,

8wEkDAf.jpg

I want no part of it.

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8 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Paradoxical.

An example of that was the x29... Every time I think about how they kept chipping away at it to the point where as many people stopped using it, I get miffed..... Systematic discontinuations of these routes, which to me is a complete & utter slap in the face.... But yet we get these newer routes running on coverage headways (speaking of very little in return, in a system-wide sense) & net headway increases system-wide on the "established" routes, just about every time you look around.... IMO, it's all for the sake of promoting, inducing, and implementing more SBS routes in the system...

If this is the wave of the future,

8wEkDAf.jpg

I want no part of it.

Yes they start new routes with no follow-up, knowing that local buses running on 30 minute headways won't do well. A bus running that infrequent will mean even longer waits when there is traffic and it becomes even less usable. They should really set up a set of guidelines that local bus routes run no less than 20 minutes during most of the day. If they can't run the service then don't bother at all. It isn't doing the public any good with a route running two buses an hour in each direction.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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11 hours ago, WestFarms36 said:

Service Improvements

Bx13 To Compensate E 161 St riders the loss of the Bx6 Local, Bx13 Buses would terminate at E 163 St, 3 Av at all times.

I'm not seeing how completely getting rid of Bx13 trips to Bronx's Gateway Mall being an improvement.....

Canning the Bx6 locals & canning the Bx13 trips to Gateway Mall to run all Bx13's to 163rd/3rd sounds to me like a poor tradeoff.....

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5 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Let's play a different game DqnN8.gif

There would be a shit ton of money being saved in this whole gambit.... So out of ALL these service reductions you bring up, how would you redistribute these losses elsewhere throughout the system?

I would restore almost all the cuts first, then redistribute based on what's left elsewhere.

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3 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

I would restore almost all the cuts first, then redistribute based on what's left elsewhere.

I don't quite get what you're alluding to with the second portion of this statement.....

- So with the money that would be saved under that scenario you presented, you'd take those funds & restore almost all the 2010 cuts (I'm assuming you're referring to), then redistribute what, based on what's left elsewhere? And what are you referring to when you say "what's left elsewhere"?

--------------------------------

- Also, out of curiosity's sake... lol.... Which, out of all of those scenarios do you believe should really happen?

 

 

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1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

I'm not seeing how completely getting rid of Bx13 trips to Bronx's Gateway Mall being an improvement.....

Canning the Bx6 locals & canning the Bx13 trips to Gateway Mall to run all Bx13's to 163rd/3rd sounds to me like a poor tradeoff.....

Do you have your version of how things would look like with those 2 routes? Its good to see the input being given to these scenarios.

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1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

I don't quite get what you're alluding to with the second portion of this statement.....

- So with the money that would be saved under that scenario you presented, you'd take those funds & restore almost all the 2010 cuts (I'm assuming you're referring to), then redistribute what, based on what's left elsewhere? And what are you referring to when you say "what's left elsewhere"?

--------------------------------

- Also, out of curiosity's sake... lol.... Which, out of all of those scenarios do you believe should really happen?

 

 

I'm referring to the cuts under my scenario when I said I would restore almost all the cuts. From what's left, it would be redistributed on overcrowded routes (both local and express) by adding more trips. Some of the 2010 cuts should also be restored too (like the B71). 

 

From the service cuts I listed, the ones I think should happen are Q1, Q34 and Q48 cuts (and the corresponding additions on their replacements). The B11 reduction (although maybe to every 15 instead of every 20), Q59 streamline too. I wouldn't cut weekend M8 service, but I would truncate M8 service to 6th (or maybe run it somewhere else from there). 

 

The M4 and M101 should be split, but without reducing overall service on 5th/Madison and 3rd/Lex, respectively. 

 

For the express, the X12 one should have been implemented long ago. There's no reason to alternate between 23rd Street & Broadway and 57th Street & 11 Avenue while the X42 is running. QM17 & X63/X64 one should also be implemented.

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1 hour ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

I'm referring to the cuts under my scenario when I said I would restore almost all the cuts. From what's left, it would be redistributed on overcrowded routes (both local and express) by adding more trips. Some of the 2010 cuts should also be restored too (like the B71). 

Alright, now I see what you're saying....

From an outsider's vantage point, it just comes off as a dumb read to see someone state that they'd restore cuts (under a scenario) they'd make themselves..... LOL !

.....Whicccchhhhh, in the real world, is why I don't give kudos & attaboys for the MTA restoring cuts them foolishly made themselves to begin with (*looks at the B4*).....

Edited by B35 via Church

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19 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Eh, I gave it a shot. It's hard trying to maintain coverage and reduce service. I did these with the goal of maintaining existing coverage as much as possible. 

10 Local Routes to Cut:

B65, Bx24, Bx38 , M12, Q1, Q20B, Q34, Q48, Q102, S66, 

30 Local Bus Service Reductions:

26. Off-Peak S44 service terminates in Port Richmond

27. S51 service during weekends will run to Oakwood Beach to replace parts of the S76 

28. S55 service terminates with the S56 in Huguenot. Service on Bloomingdale Road, Amboy Road, and Seguine Avenue discontinued

15 Express Bus Reductions:

4. X63 service will be streamlined in the AM to run via 23 Street, Madison Avenue, and 57 Street, to 3rd Avenue

5. X64 service will be streamlined in the AM to run via 23 Street, Madison Avenue, and 57 Street, to 3rd Avenue

9. X11 starts and ends at Victory and Richmond

11. X31 service would run every 12 minutes instead of every 10 minutes in the AM, and every 15 minutes instead of every 10 minutes in the PM. Service starts/ends in the Heartland Village

1

For the record, I wouldn't actually support these cuts, but if for some reason, the MTA were actually to implement these, here's my better alternatives.

Cut 10 Local Routes

As much as I can't stand the current structure of the S66, it does provide coverage along Jewett Avenue and in Grymes Hill. I'd cut the B84 before I cut the S66. 

Reduce 30 Local Routes

26. I would actually do the opposite (run the S44 to the SI Mall and eliminate the S59) if it came down to it. I guess the S79 would need to have some local variant added to it (or something done to provide local coverage on the southern end of Richmond Avenue).

This is assuming the general route structure on that part of Staten Island remains the same (If the S66 ran straight across Watchogue, and the S54 ran via the SI Mall instead of Egbertville, that would be a different story, since I'd be more in favor of making the S59 the dominant route on Richmond Avenue).

27. If anything needs to replace the S76 in Oakwood Beach, it should be the S57, not the S51. The S51 is too much of a backtrack (heck, if you cut through Miller Field, it would probably be quicker, with the issues on New Dorp Lane between Hylan & the SIR)

28. The "newer" portion of the S55 actually gets more ridership than the old portion. If anything, I would cut the S55, and have the S56 travel via Woodrow-Huguenot-Amboy-Luten, and then pick up the rest of the S55 from there. 

Reduce 15 Express Routes

4/5: Not sure how that's really any better. I mean, to go out of the QMT and then go south to 23rd Street instead of north to 57th Street...if anything, that would probably be worse because the busiest section of Midtown gets served last. If anything, I would do what the QM buses do (and just run across 34th Street & 6th Avenue). 

8. I get that Travis (as a neighborhood) has the X19, and Bulls Head (as a neighborhood) has the X17, but the problem is that not all portions of both of those neighborhoods are within an easy walk to the West Shore Expressway or Richmond Avenue, respectively. If somebody lives over by Dinsmore Street or Signs Road, or just west of Travis Avenue, it's a long walk to reach the express bus without the X11. Granted, I have seen some of the more saavy riders take the X11 over to Richmond Avenue and transfer to the X17 anyway, but I do think the western end of Victory should have some express bus coverage. I mean, if you're going to end at Richmond Avenue, at that point, you might as well just start them at South Gannon & Victory. At least there's more space over there for buses to layover.

11. The neighborhood is called Heartland Village, not "the Heartland Village", and I hope you're not using Google Maps as a reference, because they have Heartland Village & New Springville switched. New Springville is centered around the SI Mall, whereas Heartland Village is centered around the S61 along Travis, Merrymount, etc (Some people consider Heartland Village to be a subsection of New Springville).

In any case, the X31 actually gets busier than you think (though I do agree with cutting it back to Marsh Avenue & Windham Loop). 

10 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Paradoxical.

An example of that was the x29... Every time I think about how they kept chipping away at it to the point where as many people stopped using it, I get miffed..... Systematic discontinuations of these routes, which to me is a complete & utter slap in the face.... But yet we get these newer routes running on coverage headways (speaking of very little in return, in a system-wide sense) & net headway increases system-wide on the "established" routes, just about every time you look around.... IMO, it's all for the sake of promoting, inducing, and implementing more SBS routes in the system...

2

The sad thing is, according to their own numbers, the X29 actually had decent ridership up to the very end.

10 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yes they start new routes with no follow-up, knowing that local buses running on 30 minute headways won't do well. A bus running that infrequent will mean even longer waits when there is traffic and it becomes even less usable. They should really set up a set of guidelines that local bus routes run no less than 20 minutes during most of the day. If they can't run the service then don't bother at all. It isn't doing the public any good with a route running two buses an hour in each direction.

I think every 30 minutes as a minimum is decent as long as they actually stick to the schedule. (Remember that on Staten Island, the ferry runs every 30 minutes, and while there's a lot of intra-island demand, you can't just ignore ferry-bound riders). 

I think the bigger issue is that even these short routes are running on 30 minute headways. You can walk 2 miles in 40 minutes if you walk at a typical walking speed. If you miss the bus on a 30 minute headway, and the bus operates at 12 miles per hour (which is rather quick for NYC), you can walk to the other end of the route and get there at the same time as the next bus (and if your destination is mid-route, you actually beat the bus)

Edited by checkmatechamp13

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1 minute ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I think every 30 minutes as a minimum is decent as long as they actually stick to the schedule. (Remember that on Staten Island, the ferry runs every 30 minutes, and while there's a lot of intra-island demand, you can't just ignore ferry-bound riders). 

I think the bigger issue is that even these short routes are running on 30 minute headways. You can walk 2 miles in 40 minutes if you walk at a typical walking speed. If you miss the bus on a 30 minute headway, and the bus operates at 12 miles per hour (which is rather quick for NYC), you can walk to the other end of the route and get there at the same time as the next bus (and if your destination is mid-route, you actually beat the bus)

30 minutes is decent for an express bus, but not for a local bus.  I can't tell you how many times I've given up on the S54 and called car service or given up on the M50 and just walked.

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50 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

30 minutes is decent for an express bus, but not for a local bus.  I can't tell you how many times I've given up on the S54 and called car service or given up on the M50 and just walked.

But how close to the schedule were the buses running? 

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