MTA NYC Transit Announces Community Workshops to Help Reshape the Future of Bronx Busing

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, RailRunRob said:

 I think it would be a very decent ridership. What was the population stat? 47k people in Co-Op City I heard that stat last night. The 7 is the most heavily used express route in the Bronx correct?

It is the most heavily used line in the  Bus. However, the line has been HEMORRHAGING riders every year. The question is why? Is it just poor service or a combination of the cost and poor service? The BxM7 definitely has its issues with bunching and poor on-time performance. Then you have Metro-North coming online. Not sure why, but there are whispers that the  would look to slash express bus service significantly in areas like Co-op City despite those Metro-North trains being slated to terminate in Penn Station. This redesign and the schedules will be very interesting. Folks have to be careful that they don’t try to cut service with this redesign the way they have on Staten Island where people are standing and being left at bus stops practically every day on just about every line where SRO buses weren’t such a problem before and arriving to work late.

[Future ENY OP]

2 hours ago, RailRunRob said:

 I think it would be a very decent ridership. What was the population stat? 47k people in Co-Op City I heard that stat last night. The 7 is the most heavily used express route in the Bronx correct?

Damm. That’s an amazing stat. 47K. Now, out of that 47K who wants Downtown Manhattan service. I’d be careful of asking for Downtown Manhattan service unless it’s really warranted. 

Church Street, Broadway, Water Street are already jammed up with buses and if the East side of The Bronx is going to complain on why Riverdale has Downtown service. Truthfully, it’s easier to reach Downtown Manhattan via Inwood and Riverdale vs East side and the Bronx. 

If I lived in Co-Op and opted for Downtown service I’d say hell no only b/c that’s additional traffic on 5th Avenue or via FDR to Financial District.  However, if service is warranted, it should be a new BxM route and not BxM7, BxM10 or any existing Bronx/Manhattan exp. 

[B35 via Church]

3 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I see... And how realistic would ridership be on a Downtown route from there?

Honestly, I don't see it being justifiable enough to start up such a service / an extended service......

Any Bronx-Downtown express route is going to have to involve multiple communities/riderbases IMO.

3 hours ago, RailRunRob said:

 I think it would be a very decent ridership. What was the population stat? 47k people in Co-Op City I heard that stat last night. The 7 is the most heavily used express route in the Bronx correct?

Yep, not too far in front of the BxM9...

35 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Damm. That’s an amazing stat. 47K.

Now, out of that 47K who wants Downtown Manhattan service. I’d be careful of asking for Downtown Manhattan service unless it’s really warranted... 

That's 47k, up from 44k & change (don't remember the exact number she said) last time I recall my aunt telling me, back in 2015....

Out of that same 47k, about 5% are using the BxM7 now (and much like every other route, it's seeing losses too)......

I believe that the borough should have another Downtown route outside of Riverdale's BxM18, but it can't be a route that solely serves Co-op.... I don't see much of anyone that isn't a resident of Co-op, making their way to Co-op, for such a service either.... I don't know if this stigma still exists in 2018, but there used to be a palpable divide b/w Co-op residents & other Bronxites (very similar to that of Lindenwood & ENY)....

 

[RailRunRob]

25 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Damm. That’s an amazing stat. 47K. Now, out of that 47K who wants Downtown Manhattan service. I’d be careful of asking for Downtown Manhattan service unless it’s really warranted. 

Church Street, Broadway, Water Street are already jammed up with buses and if the East side of The Bronx is going to complain on why Riverdale has Downtown service. Truthfully, it’s easier to reach Downtown Manhattan via Inwood and Riverdale vs East side and the Bronx. 

If I lived in Co-Op and opted for Downtown service I’d say hell no only b/c that’s additional traffic on 5th Avenue or via FDR to Financial District.  However, if service is warranted, it should be a new BxM route and not BxM7, BxM10 or any existing Bronx/Manhattan exp. 

For sure Traffic is something I even I brought up. I've seen the BXM18 inch up Sixth Avenue near the Holland so noted for sure. I know there are quite a few people that don't want to use the Subway at all is they don't have too. Maybe a bus or two for peak rush hour?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

38 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Damm. That’s an amazing stat. 47K. Now, out of that 47K who wants Downtown Manhattan service. I’d be careful of asking for Downtown Manhattan service unless it’s really warranted. 

Church Street, Broadway, Water Street are already jammed up with buses and if the East side of The Bronx is going to complain on why Riverdale has Downtown service. Truthfully, it’s easier to reach Downtown Manhattan via Inwood and Riverdale vs East side and the Bronx. 

If I lived in Co-Op and opted for Downtown service I’d say hell no only b/c that’s additional traffic on 5th Avenue or via FDR to Financial District.  However, if service is warranted, it should be a new BxM route and not BxM7, BxM10 or any existing Bronx/Manhattan exp. 

The BxM18 was restructured not too long ago to make it more viable and keep it around. While it has some Downtown riders, a lot of the ridership comes from the stops in Midtown.  56th is BIG one because you have LOTS of white collar types working in those areas between 6th and 3rd, so they simply track the bus and walk over to Madison at night.  43rd is another big one.  Nearly half the bus empties out after those two stops in the morning.  Without the Midtown ridership, there wouldn't be enough of it to keep the Downtown service.  Not too long ago it was more popular, but traffic has really killed ridership. The afternoon trips especially have become quite unreliable or go missing at times and I spoke with road ops about why.  We went over specific trips and my contact gave me details.  Those trips usually involve a trip before and then deadheading to reach Downtown. 

I often take it Downtown for meetings or get it Downtown to come home and it's great.  That said, I'm not sure there's enough ridership for it from Co-op City. It's just a question of demographics.  Riverdale has it being a primarily white collar neighborhood, so you have people Downtown and Midtown using it.  Different demographic in Co-op City.

3 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Honestly, I don't see it being justifiable enough to start up such a service / an extended service......

Any Bronx-Downtown express route is going to have to involve multiple communities/riderbases IMO.

Yep, not too far in front of the BxM9...

Yeah and it used to not even be close.  The BxM7 has lost a TON of ridership.  I'm posting usage since 2012 up to last year:

BxM7:

2012   923,098     2013  863,580       2014  847,842       2015  802,046       2016  777,368      2017  729,602    Decline of -47,766   -6.1%

http://web.mta.info/nyct/facts/ridership/ridership_busMTA_annual.htm

The BxM9 last year was 2nd with 558,298

[RailRunRob]

13 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I often take it Downtown for meetings or get it Downtown to come home and it's great.  That said, I'm not sure there's enough ridership for it from Co-op City. It's just a question of demographics.  Riverdale has it being a primarily white collar neighborhood, so you have people Downtown and Midtown using it.  Different demographic in Co-op City.

I guess we'll have a better idea of ridership demand shortly when they tally everything. The little peak last night was more than a few people worked south of 23rd. Co-Op is an established working-class area. As far as white collar even the bosses assistant need's to get the work and they may be willing to pay the $6.50. We'll see.

[Future ENY OP]

3 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Any Bronx-Downtown express route is going to have to involve multiple communities/riderbases IMO.

This I agree... 

 

[RailRunRob]

What did you guys think about the request for Limited bus service to the Ferry in Soundview from Co-Op? Did the MTA change any routes in that area already? I wasn't too familiar on the topic.

[MysteriousBtrain]

3 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

What did you guys think about the request for Limited bus service to the Ferry in Soundview from Co-Op? Did the MTA change any routes in that area already? I wasn't too familiar on the topic.

Sounds like something that would be more or less rerouted Q50s. I personally don't see much ridership unless Co-op residents actually use the route.

[Future ENY OP]

35 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

For sure Traffic is something I even I brought up. I've seen the BXM18 inch up Sixth Avenue near the Holland so noted for sure. I know there are quite a few people that don't want to use the Subway at all is they don't have too. Maybe a bus or two for peak rush hour?

Here’s the issue I have with 6th Avenue. 6th is very shaky to me. When I used to work Downtown (Than Liberty Bus Lines) those buses move. They knew how to navigate through that traffic. However, the climate of today’s driving condition doesn’t even allow you to get past canal without any breakdowns and restrictions. 

Although the no left turn on Canal during rush hours do help. However, it’s traffic control agents in the area that don’t know what there doing. 

If the BxM18 went via the FDR it wouldn’t be too bad b/c the drive moves unless any barring accident on Houston, 23rd or 34th. Plus you have the 10”6’ clearance further down the drive. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

18 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

I guess we'll have a better idea of ridership demand shortly when they tally everything. The little peak last night was more than a few people worked south of 23rd. Co-Op is an established working-class area. As far as white collar even the bosses assistant need's to get the work and they may be willing to pay the $6.50. We'll see.

Well they first need to understand the declining ridership on the BxM7. It may be an established working class area, but I suspect that the fares is one thing that is deterring ridership, and I'm willing to bet that they'll be asking for $7.00 come 2019. It's hard to justify $14.00 a day for someone trying to make ends meet.  You can take the bus to the subway there and call it a day.

1 minute ago, Future ENY OP said:

Here’s the issue I have with 6th Avenue. 6th is very shaky to me. When I used to work Downtown (Than Liberty Bus Lines) those buses move. They knew how to navigate through that traffic. However, the climate of today’s driving condition doesn’t even allow you to get past canal without any breakdowns and restrictions. 

Although the no left turn on Canal during rush hours do help. However, it’s traffic control agents in the area that don’t know what there doing. 

If the BxM18 went via the FDR it wouldn’t be too bad b/c the drive moves unless any barring accident on Houston, 23rd or 34th. Plus you have the 10”6’ clearance further down the drive. 

This FDR thing has been beat to death. As someone who used it and continues to, it has its own problems.  I would keep it running the way it is. Nice and direct up 6th.  

[B35 via Church]

31 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

What did you guys think about the request for Limited bus service to the Ferry in Soundview from Co-Op? Did the MTA change any routes in that area already? I wasn't too familiar on the topic.

The Bx27 got extended inside Clason Point Park...

Anyway, As for bus service (whether if it's a direct point to point shuttle, or some alteration of a current route), I'd say it's unwarranted... I'd LMFAO though if they actually went ahead w/ extending some Bx23's to the Soundview Ferry Terminal.....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

12 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

The Bx27 got extended inside Clason Point Park...

Anyway, As for bus service (whether if it's a direct point to point shuttle, or some alteration of a current route), I'd say it's unwarranted... I'd LMFAO though if they actually went ahead w/ extending some Bx23's to the Soundview Ferry Terminal.....

Yeah, but only select Bx27 trips were extended there which is stupid. The original terminal is what? Less than a block or two away... 

[RailRunRob]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Well they first need to understand the declining ridership on the BxM7. It may be an established working class area, but I suspect that the fares is one thing that is deterring ridership, and I'm willing to bet that they'll be asking for $7.00 come 2019. It's hard to justify $14.00 a day for someone trying to make ends meet.  You can take the bus to the subway there and call it a day.

That's a weird district almost a tale of two cities in CB12 Williamsbridge and Wakefield over the last 20 years has definitely dipped Median income etc and so forth It's almost as if with the gentrification of Harlem in the South Bronx residents moved northward following affordability etc. Co-op city itself is a bit different In the same way Staten Island might have the NYPD and FDNY. There quite a few folks representing MTA , HHC, Unions and other agencies there's stability there and overtime pay let's not forgot that. I'm sure there some six figures easy that way. I think it's just an overall trend quite a few SI/Bklyn routes dropped over the same period as well. But we'll see.

[RailRunRob]

52 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

The Bx27 got extended inside Clason Point Park...

Anyway, As for bus service (whether if it's a direct point to point shuttle, or some alteration of a current route), I'd say it's unwarranted... I'd LMFAO though if they actually went ahead w/ extending some Bx23's to the Soundview Ferry Terminal.....

I agree like in the time you travel all the way over to Soundview then wait for a boat. You'd be in Harlem on the  already.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

17 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

That's a weird district almost a tale of two cities in CB12 Williamsbridge and Wakefield over the last 20 years has definitely dipped Median income etc and so forth It's almost as if with the gentrification of Harlem in the South Bronx residents moved northward following affordability etc. Co-op city itself is a bit different In the same way Staten Island might have the NYPD and FDNY. There quite a few folks representing MTA , HHC, Unions and other agencies there's stability there and overtime pay let's not forgot that. I'm sure there some six figures easy that way. I think it's just an overall trend quite a few SI/Bklyn routes dropped over the same period as well. But we'll see.

I know, but also remember that Co-op City was built as a form of affordable housing.  One of the last big public works created in the City.  Housing costs have skyrocketed around the city, so with everything going up, the express bus at $13.00 a day becomes more of a luxury. I think the same is true in Parkchester as well.  Both neighborhoods had really good deals on rent, and now that isn't so much the case as they have been "discovered".

[B35 via Church]

32 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yeah, but only select Bx27 trips were extended there which is stupid. The original terminal is what? Less than a block or two away... 

I'd like to know how many people are even taking the thing to the ferry - and what parts of the borough they're even coming from.

Just now, RailRunRob said:

I agree like in the time you travel all the way over to Soundview then wait for a boat. You'd be in Harlem on the  already.

Right.... and within that, lies enough bus routes/BPH transporting people as it is from Co-op to PBP....

Such a route isn't all that plausible & would loom wasteful - Not what we need right now, when current bus service throughout the city (quality & frequency, generally speaking) on current bus routes continue to dwindle.... I'd take it as a slap in the face if I was enduring some painstakingly irritating (even stressful) commute on some bus route - to then hear/read about some community getting bus service to a ferry, that has a snowball's chance in hell of being patronized enough to remotely justify it..... ESPECIALLY when I'm reading about missing trips, bus shortages, and people getting flagged because they can't get on buses elsewhere within the city....

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

6 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

I'd like to know how many people are even taking the thing to the ferry - and what parts of the borough they're even coming from.

Right.... and within that, lies enough bus routes/BPH transporting people as it is from Co-op to PBP....

Such a route isn't all that plausible & would loom wasteful - Not what we need right now, when current bus service throughout the city (quality & frequency, generally speaking) on current bus routes continue to dwindle.... I'd take it as a slap in the face if I was enduring some painstakingly irritating (even stressful) commute on some bus route - to then hear/read about some community getting bus service to a ferry, that has a snowball's chance in hell of being patronized enough to remotely justify it..... ESPECIALLY when I'm reading about missing trips, bus shortages, and people getting flagged because they can't get on buses elsewhere within the city....

 

Believe it or not quite a few are. I had to attend the meeting for work actually. God knows why they had it in the Soundview Houses.  There were more of us there than people that showed up to speak.  Anywho, the people that will use it will drive from Parkchester (the types that own in one of the complexes there and drive certainly will) or they'll come from Shorehaven.    I expect the people in Shorehaven will go for it because it is close by and they have the income to take that AND the subway or bus if needed since there is no free transfer from the ferry. It's just slightly cheaper than the express bus each way with that set up.  People in Soundview in fact are now concerned about gentrification.  They expect people with higher incomes to start moving in sooner rather than later.  Time will tell I suppose.

https://www.bisnow.com/new-york/news/neighborhood/the-soundview-ferry-route-could-transform-the-south-bronx-90526

I'm not sure why Throggs Neck wasn't included but they wanted a ferry. Wouldn't surprised if some of them drive over there either.

[RailRunRob]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I know, but also remember that Co-op City was built as a form of affordable housing.

Was /is it Mitchell Lama based? Like Morningside Gardens and Columbus 95 on the UWS?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, RailRunRob said:

Was /is it Mitchell Lama based? Like Morningside Gardens and Columbus 95 on the UWS?

Not sure, but they have some stipulations in place in order for people to get in.  It is indeed a form of affordable housing, not market rate.

[RailRunRob]

30 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Not sure, but they have some stipulations in place in order for people to get in.  It is indeed a form of affordable housing, not market rate.

Yep, It's Mitchell Lama.. just checked. Parkchester, Stuyvesant town and DevelopmentsOn the upper Westside and Morningside Heights are/were under this Umbrella.  Kinda like NYS G.I Bill.

You're correct the stipulations are

700 Credit 

$24,000 to $156,000 a year in income.

No felonies.

Didn't know this interesting! 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

12 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

Yep, It's Mitchell Lama.. just checked. Parkchester, Stuyvesant town and DevelopmentsOn the upper Westside and Morningside Heights are/were under this Umbrella.  Kinda like NYS G.I Bill.

You're correct the stipulations are

700 Credit 

$24,000 to $156,000 a year in income.

No felonies.

Didn't know this interesting! 

Back in the day it used to be REALLY affordable. I know in Parkchester, the rents shot up considerably. Not sure about Co-op City. Just mention it because it means less disposable income for things like the express bus.

[RailRunRob]

52 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Back in the day it used to be REALLY affordable. I know in Parkchester, the rents shot up considerably. Not sure about Co-op City. Just mention it because it means less disposable income for things like the express bus.

Douglas Elliman is managing Co-Op City now. I forgot that being its a Co-Op you have to buy in.. $13,000-$30,000 so not a bad path to ownership. Being it's still under Mitchell llama I'm not sure how much things can go up. and for that, I'm sure it's a much-desired destination nowadays.  

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, RailRunRob said:

Douglas Elliman is managing Co-Op City now. I forgot that being its a Co-Op you have to buy in.. $13,000-$30,000 so not a bad path to ownership. Being it's still under Mitchell llama I'm not sure how much things can go up. and for that, I'm sure it's a much-desired destination nowadays.  

It sure is at that price point. They throw in a few goodies for sure, plus with Metro-North coming, it won't be so "out of the way".

[jolusoji]

On 10/10/2018 at 1:14 PM, RailRunRob said:

What did you guys think about the request for Limited bus service to the Ferry in Soundview from Co-Op? Did the MTA change any routes in that area already? I wasn't too familiar on the topic.

When was this?,What was the request?I  in the Soundview area! I am not able to attend one of the workshops.

maybe the route can run from Gun hill using 40fter since the ferry terminal cannot handle 60ft buses and  we have the bx39,bx5 combo bx26,28,30,38