MTA facing toughest financial challenge in decades: report

[checkmatechamp13]

7 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

Mabye a good idea is to use some of the buses that they cut and have the S59 run hourly overnight. It would only require 3 more buses in each direction (6 trips total) and they could remove the three Weekday and the one Saturday and Sunday early morning short turns from the SI Mall to Hylan Blvd to reduce the number of extra trips needed. So with this plan, 3 more Weekday trips and 5 more weekend trips would need to be added to the S59 in order to run 24/7 service on that route. I'm surprised how Richmond Ave, a major SI corridor is a transit desert late nights.

Those short-turns are deadheading to Hylan Blvd anyway to start a northbound trip, so you don't save much either way by cutting them. But yes, I agree that the S59 should have overnight service. (I would personally run the S79 overnight as well. The S79 passed the S53 as the busiest line on Staten Island and it still has no overnight service). 

[P3F]

2 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Still better than nothing.  At least some people get service. And yeah, that's a good question, because given the low ridership of the SIR (does it run 2 cars overnight or 4?) it seems weird they would keep that and cut the buses.

It runs 4 cars at all times.

[Lil 57]

2 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Those short-turns are deadheading to Hylan Blvd anyway to start a northbound trip, so you don't save much either way by cutting them. But yes, I agree that the S59 should have overnight service. (I would personally run the S79 overnight as well. The S79 passed the S53 as the busiest line on Staten Island and it still has no overnight service). 

Didn't the S59 use to run overnight before the 1995 service cuts?

[checkmatechamp13]

58 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

Didn't the S59 use to run overnight before the 1995 service cuts?

Yes, between Forest & Willowbrook and Hylan Blvd (one bus back and forth every hour). I assume they turned around by Egbert Triangle. 

The S66 actually used to run overnight before 1995, believe it or not (So yes, it went from a 24/7 route to a weekday-only route). The S55/56 also used to run until 10pm. 

The thing with the S59 is that it doesn't connect directly to the ferry or Bay Ridge, so you're forced to transfer to another bus to reach the ferry. But then again, back in 1995, there wasn't as much express service (I know in 1993, the X1/X10 were Monday-Saturday), so you didn't have the option of taking an express bus over to Richmond Avenue and connecting to the local bus late at night (I've seen people miss the last X17 and take the X10 over to Richmond Avenue for the S59. I assume the same thing happens on the SIM3C, especially since everything south of the SIE lost its last few express trips of the night)

[Lil 57]

10 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Yes, between Forest & Willowbrook and Hylan Blvd (one bus back and forth every hour). I assume they turned around by Egbert Triangle. 

The S66 actually used to run overnight before 1995, believe it or not (So yes, it went from a 24/7 route to a weekday-only route). The S55/56 also used to run until 10pm. 

The thing with the S59 is that it doesn't connect directly to the ferry or Bay Ridge, so you're forced to transfer to another bus to reach the ferry. But then again, back in 1995, there wasn't as much express service (I know in 1993, the X1/X10 were Monday-Saturday), so you didn't have the option of taking an express bus over to Richmond Avenue and connecting to the local bus late at night (I've seen people miss the last X17 and take the X10 over to Richmond Avenue for the S59. I assume the same thing happens on the SIM3C, especially since everything south of the SIE lost its last few express trips of the night)

But I think the S55/56 ran every 40 mins instead of every 30.

You could have the S59 extended to the ferry overnight via Richmond Terrace. Maybe have the route run nonstop from the Ferry to Port Richmond to give riders a quicker ride or have it run local and have the S59 and S40 meet alternative ferries so Richmond Terrace riders east of Port Richmond Ave can keep their half-hourly service.

[checkmatechamp13]

2 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

But I think the S55/56 ran every 40 mins instead of every 30.

You could have the S59 extended to the ferry overnight via Richmond Terrace. Maybe have the route run nonstop from the Ferry to Port Richmond to give riders a quicker ride or have it run local and have the S59 and S40 meet alternative ferries so Richmond Terrace riders east of Port Richmond Ave can keep their half-hourly service.

At that time it was every 30 minutes (I guess they cut the frequency too). The 40 minute headways were until 2007 when the S55 was extended to the Arthur Kill Correctional Facility, and they de-interlined them (the trips used to come into Luten Avenue as an S55 and leave as an S56 and vice versa)

I think going across Forest to cover the S48 would help more riders than going to Richmond Terrace (and all stops should be made at that time. The S48 only takes 20 minutes from the ferry to Richmond Avenue late at night, which is almost as fast as driving)

[Lil 57]

48 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I think going across Forest to cover the S48 would help more riders than going to Richmond Terrace (and all stops should be made at that time. The S48 only takes 20 minutes from the ferry to Richmond Avenue late at night, which is almost as fast as driving)

The S48 routing sounds good, but people using the S59 to get to the "heart" of Port Richmond late nights (Around Port Richmond/Castleton) would be out of luck. Unless if they want to walk 15-20 mins.

[checkmatechamp13]

10 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

The S48 routing sounds good, but people using the S59 to get to the "heart" of Port Richmond late nights (Around Port Richmond/Castleton) would be out of luck. Unless if they want to walk 15-20 mins.

The reason why it only went to Forest & Willowbrook was because to go the extra 5-6 minutes to Richmond Terrace would've required another bus to maintain the hourly headway (or it would run less frequently than every 60 minutes).

I agree that it is a long walk up Port Richmond Avenue (and especially around Walker Street, you don't have any local service whatsoever in that immediate area). But I think that Forest Avenue could use the 30 minute overnight service more than Richmond Terrace (assuming the rumors are true, because I went to a meeting on Thursday, and one of the planners said that he hadn't heard anything about any plans to reduce overnight service). 

[Lil 57]

9 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

The reason why it only went to Forest & Willowbrook was because to go the extra 5-6 minutes to Richmond Terrace would've required another bus to maintain the hourly headway (or it would run less frequently than every 60 minutes).

I agree that it is a long walk up Port Richmond Avenue (and especially around Walker Street, you don't have any local service whatsoever in that immediate area). But I think that Forest Avenue could use the 30 minute overnight service more than Richmond Terrace (assuming the rumors are true, because I went to a meeting on Thursday, and one of the planners said that he hadn't heard anything about any plans to reduce overnight service). 

Unless if you want to run the S44 every 60 mins overnight. (I would of truncated the S44 at Forest/Richmond but saying that the S44 ends right in front of it's depot, it makes more sense just to have it run the full route overnight and alternate with the S59 at the ferry.)

[FLX9304]

From 2010-2011, some of the best parts of the MTA got cut because Nassau County did not wanted to pay their fair share of the taxes that was imposed to them, so the city’s bus routes took the hardest hit. Then they did away with the $9 fun pass, which was a tourist favorite (so was mine). Some of the other fares was gone too, like the $14 express plus card iirc. 

[checkmatechamp13]

3 minutes ago, FLX9304 said:

From 2010-2011, some of the best parts of the MTA got cut because Nassau County did not wanted to pay their fair share of the taxes that was imposed to them, so the city’s bus routes took the hardest hit. Then they did away with the $9 fun pass, which was a tourist favorite (so was mine). Some of the other fares was gone too, like the $14 express plus card iirc. 

The Fun Pass was $7 when it was eliminated, and I think you're referring to the 14-day local bus/subway unlimited (which only lasted for a few years)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

6 minutes ago, FLX9304 said:

From 2010-2011, some of the best parts of the MTA got cut because Nassau County did not wanted to pay their fair share of the taxes that was imposed to them, so the city’s bus routes took the hardest hit. Then they did away with the $9 fun pass, which was a tourist favorite (so was mine). Some of the other fares was gone too, like the $14 express plus card iirc. 

Nassau has a budget to balance, and they simply couldn't afford to pay the  for inflated costs.  Ultimately they have taxpayers to answer to as to why they have to pay out so much for what was then subpar service. That isn't to say that NICE has been great, but if the County doesn't have the funds to keep paying the  then they have a fiscal duty to make changes.  It's that simple.  A lot of these programs that you liked went away because the  is cash strapped and they eliminated them to generate more revenue.  Their operating costs are only going to increase so Nassau was smart to move in a different direction rather be held hostage with inflated costs that it couldn't afford.

[FLX9304]

1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

The Fun Pass was $7 when it was eliminated, and I think you're referring to the 14-day local bus/subway unlimited (which only lasted for a few years)

Thanks for the 14 day reminder. The fun pass was the major reason of why I used to ride around the city so much during my few day visits. 

[B35 via Church]

What was the fun pass anyway?

[FLX9304]

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

What was the fun pass anyway?

The all day unlimited lasting until 3:00a the next day

[Future ENY OP]

10 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Nassau has a budget to balance, and they simply couldn't afford to pay the  for inflated costs.  Ultimately they have taxpayers to answer to as to why they have to pay out so much for what was then subpar service. That isn't to say that NICE has been great, but if the County doesn't have the funds to keep paying the  then they have a fiscal duty to make changes.  It's that simple.  

Duly noted. 

However, that’s part of their problem. I get the consolation of essential services to keep a balanced budget. But, if you don’t have good fiscal responsibility in the county than everything crumbles.  It’s been 7 years since Nassau left  and NICE is still trying to keep up. 

 

[B35 via Church]

2 hours ago, FLX9304 said:

The all day unlimited lasting until 3:00a the next day

Lol... I never had a use for the thing... Same as those single-ride metrocards (which AFAIC is a royal waste of paper - and I'm not one of these staunch environmentalist types either).....

Thanks though.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

3 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

Duly noted. 

However, that’s part of their problem. I get the consolation of essential services to keep a balanced budget. But, if you don’t have good fiscal responsibility in the county than everything crumbles.  It’s been 7 years since Nassau left  and NICE is still trying to keep up. 

 

Nassau has another problem that is hard to fix.  They face a problem with a shrinking tax base.  The younger population isn't opting to stay on Long Island and so now some counties are scrambling to find ways (and the money) to keep them.  Taxes are already high which another deterrent, so this is why Nassau has to make tough choices when it comes to making cuts.  The reality is that your typical Nassau taxpayer cares more about good schools than they do about NICE bus service, and therefore the good schools take priority when it comes to using taxpayer dollars to fund this or that.  Don't expect tons of money to be given to NICE anytime soon.  It simply isn't there, and it will likely get worse before it gets better.

[Future ENY OP]

3 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Nassau has another problem that is hard to fix.  They face a problem with a shrinking tax base.  The younger population isn't opting to stay on Long Island and so now some counties are scrambling to find ways (and the money) to keep them.  Taxes are already high which another deterrent, so this is why Nassau has to make tough choices when it comes to making cuts.  The reality is that your typical Nassau taxpayer cares more about good schools than they do about NICE bus service, and therefore the good schools take priority when it comes to using taxpayer dollars to fund this or that.  Don't expect tons of money to be given to NICE anytime soon.  It simply isn't there, and it will likely get worse before it gets better.

Yikes. The younger population are making moves to New York City, points north and south.  I think I read something that Nassau could be under the red for a while. If the math is correct they are on the hook for 70 Million under the red (as of 7/5/18). There was one report that Nassau could be 105 Million in the red as of 4/1/18. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

21 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Yikes. The younger population are making moves to New York City, points north and south.  I think I read something that Nassau could be under the red for a while. If the math is correct they are on the hook for 70 Million under the red (as of 7/5/18). There was one report that Nassau could be 105 Million in the red as of 4/1/18. 

Yep, and now they are scrambling to try to build housing to attract the younger folks so that they stay, but that means more people packing on the already overcrowded LIRR trains, which is turning people off, especially with the high fares.

[Future ENY OP]

Just now, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yep, and now they are scrambling to try to build housing to attract the younger folks so that they stay, but that means more people packing on the already overcrowded LIRR trains, which is turning people off, especially with the high fares.

Here’s the problem with Nassau. Younger population are not attending schools like Hofstra, Adelphi or any school that associates with nassau county. Plus no infrastructure is being built along East Meadow, Hicksville, Garden City, Mineola and I could go on and on. 

I was just recently in Suffolk and certain downtown parts are starting to look like Manhattan and Westchester. Apartments are being built by LIRR stops plus you have SUNY Farmingdale, and Brookhaven Industrial Park which are sprucing.

Nassau’s approach on fiscal responsibility is totally wrong and the people who are living there now are going to feel it in the future and transportation on the island will pay dearly. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

3 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Here’s the problem with Nassau. Younger population are not attending schools like Hofstra, Adelphi or any school that associates with nassau county. Plus no infrastructure is being built along East Meadow, Hicksville, Garden City, Mineola and I could go on and on. 

I was just recently in Suffolk and certain downtown parts are starting to look like Manhattan and Westchester. Apartments are being built by LIRR stops plus you have SUNY Farmingdale, and Brookhaven Industrial Park which are sprucing.

Nassau’s approach on fiscal responsibility is totally wrong and the people who are living there now are going to feel it in the future and transportation on the island will pay dearly. 

They don't have a choice.  A lot of the old crowd are NIMBY and they feel as if they get to call the shots as they are the ones paying the high taxes.

[Future ENY OP]

9 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

They don't have a choice.  A lot of the old crowd are NIMBY and they feel as if they get to call the shots as they are the ones paying the high taxes.

You are correct about that assessment of Nassau. 

[R68OnBroadway]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yep, and now they are scrambling to try to build housing to attract the younger folks so that they stay, but that means more people packing on the already overcrowded LIRR trains, which is turning people off, especially with the high fares.

Most single and childless couples have really nothing advantageous in Nassau- they don't need a large house, and in Nassau you deal with long commutes, packed trains, ridiculous fares, and constant resistance to any change. If it was too expensive for me to live in an area near the subway, I'd much rather go to a place with no rail service but express buses than deal with LIRR or MNR.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, R68OnBroadway said:

Most single and childless couples have really nothing advantageous in Nassau- they don't need a large house, and in Nassau you deal with long commutes, packed trains, ridiculous fares, and constant resistance to any change. If it was too expensive for me to live in an area near the subway, I'd much rather go to a place with no rail service but express buses than deal with LIRR or MNR.

MNRR is SO much better than the LIRR, and in fact I think last year, I posted an article about how Metro-North has been working very diligently to meet the needs of millennial riders by adding more trains at hours where they are likely to travel. The LIRR on the other hand...  Even with Metro-North's on-time performance falling last year, it still stands at 88.7% overall.  

Source: https://www.lohud.com/story/news/transit/2018/07/23/metro-north-performance/801132002/