NJ Transit to borrow 500 Million to replace old trains and buses

[trainfan22]

NJ Transit set to borrow $500M to replace old trains and buses

Today 4:18 PM

By Larry Higgs | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com

NJ Transit is about to take out the mother of all new vehicle loans -- $500 million to purchase new trains and buses to rid the fleet of the old ones that break down and cause delays.

The financing could come from the state Economic Development Authority, scheduled to decide on Tuesday whether to issue tax exempt transportation revenue bonds. NJ Transit’s board could vote Wednesday to authorize spending the $500 million to replace aging trains and buses.

 

The financing would allow NJ Transit to retire some of its oldest GP40 diesel locomotives, which were built in the 1960s and rebuilt in the early 1990s. NJ Transit has 52 of those locomotives. Twenty-nine would be replaced and 17 rebuilt and remain in revenue service, under the agency’s 2014 fleet plans.

That plan also calls for replacement of 1,338 NABI city-style buses starting in 2021. Those buses would be purchased over six years under the plan.

 Link to article

https://www.nj.com/traffic/2019/12/nj-transit-set-to-borrow-500m-to-replace-old-trains-and-buses.html

[trainfan22]

They are replacing the NABI's starting in 2021, I remember when NJT was mostly flex Metros and the seeing the demo NABI at PABT while on a Flexible 107... just seemed like yesterday.

 

 

I'm excited about this as I find the NABI's rather bland and prefer the XD40 or NovaBus LFS..

[DCTransitFilms]

On 12/9/2019 at 9:25 PM, trainfan22 said:

They are replacing the NABI's starting in 2021, I remember when NJT was mostly flex Metros and the seeing the demo NABI at PABT while on a Flexible 107... just seemed like yesterday.

 

 

I'm excited about this as I find the NABI's rather bland and prefer the XD40 or NovaBus LFS..

Aren't the NABIs just at most 5-11 years old like why would they wanna retire them at a young age especially the ones from 2014.

[S78 via Hylan]

36 minutes ago, DCTransitFilms said:

Aren't the NABIs just at most 5-11 years old like why would they wanna retire them at a young age especially the ones from 2014.

The oldest ones are from 2008, so they can legally retire next year as they’ll hit 12 years.

Edited December 12, 2019 by S78 via Hylan

[trainfan22]

20 minutes ago, DCTransitFilms said:

Aren't the NABIs just at most 5-11 years old like why would they wanna retire them at a young age especially the ones from 2014.

The buses will be replaced over 6 years starting in 2021, the oldest being retired first. Buses can start being replaced at 12 years old

[DCTransitFilms]

14 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

The buses will be replaced over 6 years starting in 2021, the oldest being retired first. Buses can start being replaced at 12 years old

 

15 minutes ago, S78 via Hylan said:

The oldest ones are from 2008, so they can legally retire next year as they’ll hit 12 years.

Y'all right, it just feels like these buses just entered service only a few years ago lol.

[Nova Fly Guy]

There poor quality most likely and not worth keeping longer then 12 yr.

[trainfan22]

1 hour ago, Nova Fly Guy said:

There poor quality most likely and not worth keeping longer then 12 yr.

Its crazy as IIRC some of the Flex Metros were almost 20 years old when they was retired. 

[Cait Sith]

2 hours ago, Nova Fly Guy said:

There poor quality most likely and not worth keeping longer then 12 yr.

Wrong.

The bodies and the stainless steel frames of the NABIs are holding up fine. The ones that are prioritized to go first are the Caterpillar engine buses, as the engines are costing them more and more to maintain ever since Caterpillar left the bus market.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Cait Sith

[Lex]

1 minute ago, Cait Sith said:

Wrong.

The bodies and the stainless steel of the NABIs are holding up fine. The ones that are prioritized to go first are the Caterpillar engine buses, as the engines are costing them more and more to maintain ever since Caterpillar left the bus market.

Was it just too costly to repower the buses? (I'm not talking about now, but years ago.)

[Cait Sith]

Just now, Lex said:

Was it just too costly to repower the buses? (I'm not talking about now, but years ago.)

There were no plans to repower them(nor would it really make sense for them to do so). 5230 was the only one with a Cummins primarily because it was an Altoona test bus.

[Nova Fly Guy]

21 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

Wrong.

The bodies and the stainless steel frames of the NABIs are holding up fine. The ones that are prioritized to go first are the Caterpillar engine buses, as the engines are costing them more and more to maintain ever since Caterpillar left the bus market.

Got you 🤣🤣🤣 the buses suck it’s not hard to tell NABI are good for smaller fleets. The road call is very high these buses are not put together very well. South jersey is ok due to the lack of wear and tear, routes are not as heavy minus Philly routes. 

Don’t let me stop you tho boss 🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️

Edited December 13, 2019 by Nova Fly Guy

[Cait Sith]

16 minutes ago, Nova Fly Guy said:

Got you 🤣🤣🤣 the buses suck it’s not hard to tell NABI are good for smaller fleets. The road call is very high these buses are not put together very well. South jersey is ok due to the lack of wear and tear, routes are not as heavy minus Philly routes. 

Don’t let me stop you tho boss 🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️

So explain how they suck and how they aren't put together well then, because, you know, high impact accidents will destroy anything.

Less wear and tear in South Jersey? You already sound like you don't have a clue about what you're talking about because the Washington Township ones are BEAT....

You also don't seem to realize that the majority are old....almost 12 years old 🤔

But, don't let that stop you from spreading misinformation and nonsense though "boss". 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[Nova Fly Guy]

Not talk about that one freak accident in Newark, you really reached with that one. Tons of missing runs due to Lack of spares mostly Ironbound & Hilton. 
 

Mind you this was after the Big Engine swap I give them credit for maybe the 64xx and up. Back Door sensor, wheel chair failure, buses kneeling and losing pressure. NJT knew they f*ucked these were never going pass 12 years. 

[Nova Fly Guy]

34 minutes ago, Nova Fly Guy said:

Got you 🤣🤣🤣 the buses suck it’s not hard to tell NABI are good for smaller fleets. The road call is very high these buses are not put together very well. South jersey is ok due to the lack of wear and tear, routes are not as heavy minus Philly routes. 

Don’t let me stop you tho boss 🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️

 I’m very much in the loop 🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️, I don’t care enough to go back and forth with a mod. I know how this ends when people have info not passed by the gods of the forum you win 🤦🏾‍♂️🤦🏾‍♂️. I don’t spread miss information I just don’t listen to the non sense you push on your members when your not %100 accurate, unless your a CEO and I missed it or wait you work for somebody DOB that it 🤣🤣🤣. 

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by Nova Fly Guy

[Cait Sith]

6 hours ago, Nova Fly Guy said:

Not talk about that one freak accident in Newark, you really reached with that one. Tons of missing runs due to Lack of spares mostly Ironbound & Hilton. 
 

Mind you this was after the Big Engine swap I give them credit for maybe the 64xx and up. Back Door sensor, wheel chair failure, buses kneeling and losing pressure. NJT knew they f*ucked these were never going pass 12 years. 

....big engine swap? What engine swap? lmao....they rebuilt engines, not swapped them, which is not even a big deal.....

By the way, all of those failures you mentioned? Yeah, that happens to EVERY bus, NEW AND OLD....so those points are moot.
 

6 hours ago, Nova Fly Guy said:

 I’m very much in the loop 🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️, I don’t care enough to go back and forth with a mod. I know how this ends when people have info not passed by the gods of the forum you win 🤦🏾‍♂️🤦🏾‍♂️. I don’t spread miss information I just don’t listen to the non sense you push on your members when your not %100 accurate, unless your a CEO and I missed it or wait you work for somebody DOB that it 🤣🤣🤣. 

 

That last line.....I've heard that line over the past what....11 or so years since I've been on this forum, and for the most part, my information has been backed up by people who work at some of these companies...so yeah, you saying that is a cliche, especially when many forum members have doubted the information moderators have posted....and then got proven wrong. You don't have to listen, but expect your "facts" to get challenged and corrected. That entire post was nothing but a cop-out.

Anyway, you clearly proved you didn't know what you were talking about from the beginning.

If you didn't care much about responding to me, why respond? Contradictions are a funny thing, isn't it?

Your statement above proves that you're not in the loop though. What engine swap? They never swapped out a Cummins for anything else. 5631-6549 all have the same ISL9 engine, most, if not all of them have received new or rebuilt engines from their lifespan.....

You don't spread misinformation? You CLEARLY said that the SOUTH JERSEY buses are in better shape....which is far from the truth. Egg Harbor & Washington Township's units are beat and Washington Township has been short on NABIs to the point where MCIs ran on the NABI lines.....North Jersey has also loaned buses to the South to make up for their shortages at one point...Newton Avenue is essentially the only garage with a half-decent set of NABIs down there, outside of Transdev & Academy. Once again, you're not in the loop.

Also, if you're any good at math, IF and WHEN these orders will be placed....the first gen NABIs will last LONGER than 12 years....likely up to 14 years, which is also, you know, when the first batch of 1999-2000 Nova Bus RTSs started to retire in 2012 through 2014...and the Flxible Metro-Ds starting their retirement in 2008(14 years)....The Metro-Bs lasted the longest out of every other bus AFTER 1989, and since then, they've ALWAYS started retiring buses earlier....clearly, you're not in the loop of anything.

For you to make all of these false claims while saying that "you're in the loop" is comparable to Trump saying that he was going to help pay for the rest of the Second Avenue Subway.....absolute nonsense.

But again, don't let that stop you from spreading misinformation as facts.....like you clearly did the past few posts  🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️ 

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by Cait Sith

[553 Bridgeton]

As a Bus Operator In the Southern Division, ill shed some light and drive at both garages.

Washington Twps NABIS as I type are getting rebuilt Cummins ISL and Cats, and right this second Egg Habor is putting a rebuilt ISL9 in a NABI, most of which the 6200s have got rebuilt ISL9. Egg Habors NABIS suffer salt in the air damage, so their NABIS will not last 12 years but because of the 12yrs they will go to about 14. They have 6200s Which have a lot of sensor problems because of the salt.

Washington Twp NABIS are beyond beat to death and they break down every day, especially the cats. Route 168 on the 400 takes the life out of the Nabis, every bump sets off the check engine, blown oil hoses, coolant lines, leaking def tanks, over heating, retarders stop working. All of Washington twp Nabis got rebuilt trans. so far. The ZF retarder does not work well with the cats.

Newton Av a different story, less running time, more time to repair and less breakdowns. The highest mileage nabi they have is around 150k, compared to WTWP and EHT which are in the 300-450k. 

The only time WTWP has to get as much done as possible is between 10pm and 249AM before they have to make all Nabis available for the AM combo and straight runs. If they can’t a mci has to make a nabi run, and even so they still didn’t get enough 18000s. Only 63. They needed at least 80 to run without  being short.

I myself have driven a MCI on the full 400, 403 and 459.

 

I understand you maybe a bus fan but you need to separate bus fanning views and actual facts. What you posted is not facts, I’m at both garages.

Edited December 13, 2019 by 553 Bridgeton

[Cait Sith]

16 minutes ago, 553 Bridgeton said:

As a Bus Operator In the Southern Division, ill shed some light and drive at both garages.

Washington Twps NABIS as I type are getting rebuilt Cummins ISL and Cats, and right this second Egg Habor is putting a rebuilt ISL9 in a NABI, most of which the 6200s have got rebuilt ISL9. Egg Habors NABIS suffer salt in the air damage, so their NABIS will not last 12 years but because of the 12yrs they will go to about 14. They have 6200s Which have a lot of sensor problems because of the salt.

Washington Twp NABIS are beyond beat to death and they break down every day, especially the cats. Route 168 on the 400 takes the life out of the Nabis, every bump sets off the check engine, blown oil hoses, coolant lines, leaking def tanks, over heating, retarders stop working. All of Washington twp Nabis got rebuilt trans. so far. The ZF retarder does not work well with the cats.

Newton Av a different story, less running time, more time to repair and less breakdowns. The highest mileage nabi they have is around 150k, compared to WTWP and EHT which are in the 300-450k. 

The only time WTWP has to get as much done as possible is between 10pm and 249AM before they have to make all Nabis available for the AM combo and straight runs. If they can’t a mci has to make a nabi run, and even so they still didn’t get enough 18000s. Only 63. They needed at least 80 to run without  being short.

I myself have driven a MCI on the full 400, 403 and 459.

 

I understand you maybe a bus fan but you need to separate bus fanning views and actual facts. What you posted is not facts, I’m at both garages.

Thank you for this, and for further reinforcing the majority of what I said.

---------------------------------

And this right there makes me wonder why they never bothered to swap the local NABIs around.....reliability all around would increase if they had swapped the local buses around, but Transit chose to make them stay at their garages throughout their entire life cycle, which was pretty dumb.

[553 Bridgeton]

6 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

Thank you for this, and for further reinforcing the majority of what I said.

---------------------------------

And this right there makes me wonder why they never bothered to swap the local NABIs around.....reliability all around would increase if they had swapped the local buses around, but Transit chose to make them stay at their garages throughout their entire life cycle, which was pretty dumb.

This is what I hate. They used to swap for miles but got lazy and now buses die at their garages. 
 

Meadowlands the biggest cry baby of them all moaned about getting high mileage buses from South Jersey. 200-300k is not a lot of miles for a bus. If you look at Coach USA Suburban D4500s some of them are pushing 4 million miles. 

But back to the lands they have a big say int what goes on as well as Howell. But lands with the one crying. The longest line outside the 319 is their 167/177 to Harrington Park, however most of the trips are express. The 320 on 14 trips might do 70 miles. But all of those high mileage buses they got from EHT are still running to this day and garages like Wayne/Oradell like getting EHT buses because of the reliability of those buses.

[DCTransitFilms]

I hearing that the NABIs are going to be replaced by New Flyer XD40s. 

[Cait Sith]

17 minutes ago, DCTransitFilms said:

I hearing that the NABIs are going to be replaced by New Flyer XD40s. 

That hasn't even been confirmed yet(even though eventually, it will happen because of fleet uniformity), they didn't even send out an RFP for any new 40ft buses.

Stop listening to nonsense.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Cait Sith

[DCTransitFilms]

Just now, Cait Sith said:

That hasn't even been confirmed yet, they didn't even send out an RFP for any new 40ft buses.

Stop listening to nonsense.

That was according to Wikipedia. No wonder why you can't trust it.