Service to Penn Station via East Bronx

[bobtehpanda]

17 minutes ago, Deucey said:

It would be nice if the railroads were more like RER, but that would require more builds, interagency cooperation or amalgamation, and reformed labor practices (ie why can’t the railroads have turnstiles for entry/exit instead of conductors putting paper on seats).

 

3 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Paper tickets are slowly being phased out though. The monthly ticket program will eventually be replaced with e-tickets. OMNY's upcoming phases involve MNRR and the LIRR. Quite frankly, I haven't purchased a paper ticket in years. I buy them on my iPad. The technology is secure enough now that I even feel comfortable buying weekly or monthly tickets, though I have not needed to mainly working from home. I don't know what they plan to do via OMNY aside from scanners for the e-tickets, but it is coming. The punch tickets for the different zones... Don't see any other process for that, but who knows. In Italy, we had ticket machines on each track and you would have your ticket stamped before getting on the train. If you didn't you would be fined on the spot and would have to pay then and there. 5€ or something... Happened to me once because I didn't know. Most places operate using an honor system and a verification process. I don't care for the turnstiles idea, as that could lead to more farebeating and less safe trains. 

The cops can be called immediately to remove any unruly passenger on Metro-North or someone that refuses to pay, so it keeps that element off of the train.

FWIW, most commuter rail systems outside the US do not have turnstiles either. There are instead freestanding pads that you have to validate on subject to random SBS-style spot checks.

The technology is not a blocker though, if one desires this kind of practice. In Berlin they do it with paper tickets.

Edited May 22, 2021 by bobtehpanda

[Via Garibaldi 8]

11 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

I mean this is neither here nor there.

What I mean to say is, if the stop is going to get built anyways as part of Penn Station Access, and there aren't passing tracks around the station (which there probably wouldn't be given the Empire Corridor's constraints), then Amtrak should just stop there anyways since it won't add much time.

As an example, if you take the ICE out of Berlin to Frankfurt it stops at Berlin Ostkreuz, Berlin Hbf and Berlin Spandau. If you take the Tokaido Shinkansen out of Tokyo it stops at Tokyo Station and Shinagawa. The same principle is in place for all of them; for intercity trips of 3-4 hours backtracking an hour via local transit to get from the door to the station or vice versa is counterproductive.

I personally avoid trains that make stops at stations that are not that well utilized because I want to keep it moving. I'm paying a higher fare for quicker service, and so just because a train passes a station, doesn't mean it needs to stop there. Service should be relative to demand. It's like those express trains to Westchester I've been on. They stop at 125th and next thing you know, you're in Westchester in about 20-25 minutes. If there is demand, you definitely don't need all of them stopping there.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

 

FWIW, most commuter rail systems outside the US do not have turnstiles either. There are instead freestanding pads that you have to validate on subject to random SBS-style spot checks.

The technology is not a blocker though, if one desires this kind of practice. In Berlin they do it with paper tickets.

Yeah, in Italy, France, etc, they are less obvious, but look something like this.

The one on the left is one in Italy for Trenitalia, and the one on the right is an example in France. The older ones in Italy were usually yellow and sort of not obvious, so they were easy to miss.

[Deucey]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I don't care for the turnstiles idea, as that could lead to more farebeating and less safe trains. 

That’s where you use the Paris Métro style entry/exit fare gate:

 

Takes work, time, and gymnast flexibility to get around these.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

53 minutes ago, Deucey said:

That’s where you use the Paris Métro style entry/exit fare gate:

 

Takes work, time, and gymnast flexibility to get around these.

In France, fare beating is so rampant, that even the turnstiles don't work. lol I don't know what it is about the French, but they try to avoid paying where possible, lol

[Deucey]

1 hour ago, bobtehpanda said:

 

FWIW, most commuter rail systems outside the US do not have turnstiles either. There are instead freestanding pads that you have to validate on subject to random SBS-style spot checks.

The technology is not a blocker though, if one desires this kind of practice. In Berlin they do it with paper tickets.

I’m trying to count how many times I took the DLR and forgot to tap out since the ones at Shadwell Station were fairly obscure, while on the Tube - like DC Metro and BART, the barriers don’t open unless you tap or insert the ticket.

That’s why I like faregates.

[B35 via Church]

12 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It will get a lot of reverse peak riders though. Let's just say that Albert Einstein and Montefiore are big clients of mine and they have a large staff at that Albert Einstein campus there in Morris Park. A lot of them live in Manhattan, but commute to Morris Park, primarily via the BxM10, since it stops right there by Eastchester Rd and Morris Park Av. Those buses are constantly filled, even off-peak, especially during the week. Montefiore and Albert Einstein are both affiliates, and Montefiore is one of the largest employers in that area, and is the largest employer in the Bronx, so I expect them to continue to expand in Morris Park where possible. It's a safe, quiet neighborhood, with a good housing stock, so you also have doctors that live right there in Morris Park/Indian Village. It will not be a Fordham, but that station will definitely make the neighborhood more desirable than it already is. I also forgot that the station is fairly close to Pelham Gardens, so those people will definitely use it if they have a need. They're another group that are big express bus riders. Board over by Mace Av and Eastchester Rd.

Yeah, the future station's usage I wouldn't worry about... I was addressing the notion @paulrivera brought up of Morris Park singularly, potentially being akin to Fordham rd....

10 hours ago, Deucey said:

The flaw to your analogy is that while the side chick has the attention and affection, the wife can take all his money and end the side chick’s reign just by calling the lawyers and being hardline during the mediation or trial.

There’s more native NYers and (like me) assimilated NYers than transplants; we easily could make the transplants and hipsters “get on board” or go home by doing like how @Via Garibaldi 8does or all of Harlem did with SAS.

Nihilism never achieved anything useful.

- A wife lawyering up & taking away dude's money wouldn't end the side chick's reign... That would make the side chick even more of an option & the wife even more of a villain to the dude... Regardless, the analogy stands, as transplants aren't more native to NYC than native NYC patrons already are/were.....

- As for the other part of your post here, pick a side.... One minute it's "As the descendant of a native NYer who grew up hearing native NYers complain about NY then go do something else, more of you need to be like @Via Garibaldi 8 and less like the folks on sitcoms portraying NY.", and now it's "There’s more native NYers and (like me) assimilated NYers than transplants; we easily could make the transplants and hipsters “get on board” or go home by doing like how @Via Garibaldi 8does or all of Harlem did with SAS."... NY natives were trained to b***h & moan, remember? So there's not much of a need to tag team with us.... You & your ilk (transplants) can have this new New York City.... You got it.

I like how you disassociate "assimilated NYers" from transplants btw....

Edited May 23, 2021 by B35 via Church

[Deucey]

35 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Yeah, the future station's usage I wouldn't worry about... I was addressing the notion @paulrivera brought up of Morris Park singularly, potentially being akin to Fordham rd....

- A wife lawyering up & taking away dude's money wouldn't end the side chick's reign... That would make the side chick even more of an option & the wife even more of a villain to the dude... Regardless, the analogy stands, as transplants aren't more native to NYC than native NYC patrons already are/were.....

- As for the other part of your post here, pick a side.... One minute it's "As the descendant of a native NYer who grew up hearing native NYers complain about NY then go do something else, more of you need to be like @Via Garibaldi 8 and less like the folks on sitcoms portraying NY.", and now it's "There’s more native NYers and (like me) assimilated NYers than transplants; we easily could make the transplants and hipsters “get on board” or go home by doing like how @Via Garibaldi 8does or all of Harlem did with SAS."... NY natives were trained to b***h & moan, remember? So there's not much of a need to tag team with us.... You & your ilk (transplants) can have this new New York City.... You got it.

I like how you disassociate "assimilated NYers" from transplants btw....

Okay.

How many side chicks stay with a broke ass man paying alimony and child support?

Lemme know what you find out.

[paulrivera]

49 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

I was addressing the notion @paulrivera brought up of Morris Park singularly, potentially being akin to Fordham rd....

To be clear I’m referring to ridership patterns at the Metro-North stations, not that Morris Park is gonna become this big shopping and residential district. I see big potential in the Morris Park stop having non-traditional commuting patterns, like how Fordham Station hosts among the largest reverse commute ridership in the country, never mind the tri-state.

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, Deucey said:

Okay.

How many side chicks stay with a broke ass man paying alimony and child support?

Lemme know what you find out.

Let you know what I find out? It's more like, where have you been.... Quote-unquote Madden Kings exist & side chicks (as well as main chicks) stay putting those losers on pedestals... It's not remotely some rare ass phenomenon... For starters, that's practically all those black manosphere losers on youtube b**** about & they've been doing so for years on end... On some, oh, I have a college degree & I earn 6 figures, why does she choose that no good, broke ass bum over me..... Classic "game" vs. "lame" debates that sector of youtube engage in & they're not pulling that shit out of their asses.... If you think side chicks are messing around with nothing but quality dudes, you are sorely mistaken.... Flat out.

43 minutes ago, paulrivera said:

To be clear I’m referring to ridership patterns at the Metro-North stations, not that Morris Park is gonna become this big shopping and residential district. I see big potential in the Morris Park stop having non-traditional commuting patterns, like how Fordham Station hosts among the largest reverse commute ridership in the country, never mind the tri-state.

That's how it came across in your OP, but cool....

Edited May 23, 2021 by B35 via Church

[bobtehpanda]

10 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I personally avoid trains that make stops at stations that are not that well utilized because I want to keep it moving. I'm paying a higher fare for quicker service, and so just because a train passes a station, doesn't mean it needs to stop there. Service should be relative to demand. It's like those express trains to Westchester I've been on. They stop at 125th and next thing you know, you're in Westchester in about 20-25 minutes. If there is demand, you definitely don't need all of them stopping there.

Germany and Switzerland are moving to nationally coordinated clockface schedules in which you can expect trains every hour on the hour or every half hour or fifteen or whatever at a given station, with timed connections at major hubs. As part of this, purely express trains will not exist, because it is more important that trains meet the schedule consistently than to run as fast as possible, so instead they run as fast as necessary and still make convenient stops. 

In fact this is part of a larger EU-wide scheme to bring consistent clock scheduling to all of European rail. 

[Deucey]

4 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Let you know what I find out? It's more like, where have you been.... Quote-unquote Madden Kings exist & side chicks (as well as main chicks) stay putting those losers on pedestals... It's not remotely some rare ass phenomenon... For starters, that's practically all those black manosphere losers on youtube b**** about & they've been doing so for years on end... On some, oh, I have a college degree & I earn 6 figures, why does she choose that no good, broke ass bum over me..... Classic "game" vs. "lame" debates that sector of youtube engage in & they're not pulling that shit out of their asses.... If you think side chicks are messing around with nothing but quality dudes, you are sorely mistaken.... Flat out.

So your whole argument is based on a bunch of broke ass hoteps and misogynists whinging on YouTube and Clubhouse to get likes and paid as creators.

<Insert Muttley Laughing gif>

Aight then.

 

[Mtatransit]

16 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

We have too many people trying to turn our railroads into de-facto subways.

To be fair, most of the world don't have the specific distinction of it being "subway" and "commuter rail". That is a purely North American concept. 

In Japan, the commuter rail becomes the subway in the city. In America that would mean, the PW Branch becomes the 7 train at Flushing.

14 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Paper tickets are slowly being phased out though. The monthly ticket program will eventually be replaced with e-tickets. OMNY's upcoming phases involve MNRR and the LIRR. Quite frankly, I haven't purchased a paper ticket in years. I buy them on my iPad. The technology is secure enough now that I even feel comfortable buying weekly or monthly tickets, though I have not needed to mainly working from home. I don't know what they plan to do via OMNY aside from scanners for the e-tickets, but it is coming. The punch tickets for the different zones... Don't see any other process for that, but who knows. In Italy, we had ticket machines on each track and you would have your ticket stamped before getting on the train. If you didn't you would be fined on the spot and would have to pay then and there. 5€ or something... Happened to me once because I didn't know. Most places operate using an honor system and a verification process. I don't care for the turnstiles idea, as that could lead to more farebeating and less safe trains. 

The cops can be called immediately to remove any unruly passenger on Metro-North or someone that refuses to pay, so it keeps that element off of the train.

The problem isn't really with the way the ticket is processed but the amount of man power that is still needed on LIRR/MNR/NJT trains (which raises the cost of operation). Caltrain and Metrolink in California uses two crews per train and uses proof of payment.

14 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I personally avoid trains that make stops at stations that are not that well utilized because I want to keep it moving. I'm paying a higher fare for quicker service, and so just because a train passes a station, doesn't mean it needs to stop there. Service should be relative to demand. It's like those express trains to Westchester I've been on. They stop at 125th and next thing you know, you're in Westchester in about 20-25 minutes. If there is demand, you definitely don't need all of them stopping there.

There should be certain pattern to this. I personally like the New Haven style off peak. Local trains will make all stops until Stamford, and Express trains skip all stop until Stamford.

LIRR go crazy with their scheduling, with some shuttles going to Jamaica, some ending at electric station, some train stopping here, some trains skipping. I mean they have alternative Huntington trains skip Main Line local stations on weekend, for no good reason

[B35 via Church]

2 hours ago, Deucey said:

So your whole argument is based on a bunch of broke ass hoteps and misogynists whinging on YouTube and Clubhouse to get likes and paid as creators.

<Insert Muttley Laughing gif>

Aight then.

Not at all..... Your failure to nullify the analogy doesn't mean my whole argument was based on the analogy.... I could've made the argument without it....

You can commence doing Muttley laughs or whatever, but when it's all said & done, you're a transplant that's made more than his fair share of California references as it relates to how NY should do things... The fact that you tried to separate yourself from transplants with that assimilated NY-er bit was slick, but it wasn't that slick....

First you tried to shit on natives in that first reply of this side discussion to @R10 2952, then it became oh, let's form voltron with us same B&M-ing natives to make transplants & hipsters get in line (or send them back running to wherever they came from).... That's that snake in the grass shit; the only people really that should be on that type of energy when it comes to getting transplants & hipsters in line, are the natives...

Edited May 23, 2021 by B35 via Church

[Via Garibaldi 8]

51 minutes ago, Mtatransit said:

To be fair, most of the world don't have the specific distinction of it being "subway" and "commuter rail". That is a purely North American concept. 

In Japan, the commuter rail becomes the subway in the city. In America that would mean, the PW Branch becomes the 7 train at Flushing.

The problem isn't really with the way the ticket is processed but the amount of man power that is still needed on LIRR/MNR/NJT trains (which raises the cost of operation). Caltrain and Metrolink in California uses two crews per train and uses proof of payment.

There should be certain pattern to this. I personally like the New Haven style off peak. Local trains will make all stops until Stamford, and Express trains skip all stop until Stamford.

LIRR go crazy with their scheduling, with some shuttles going to Jamaica, some ending at electric station, some train stopping here, some trains skipping. I mean they have alternative Huntington trains skip Main Line local stations on weekend, for no good reason

Yeah, but it's comparing apples to oranges. The  is a hodge-podge of former companies that have been merged together over the years.

For a forum that is supposedly "pro  workers", it is strange that the conversation of reducing manpower on the railroads keeps coming up, as that would clearly lead to people losing their jobs. I would argue that the structure of the service makes it more expensive as well, as it is again a commuter rail service and not a subway, so just like express buses, you don't have the same turnover. The unions will never go for less staff, and I don't blame them. At the same time, it makes no sense to try to shape the railroad into a subway operation when it is not a subway. The  is looking at other ways to reduce operational costs, but as far as the manpower... You will never get those costs down, as pensions and other overhead costs continue to go up. You would need a significant amount of trains and ridership to bring down the cost, and the reality is the railroads are not set up to deal with such a capacity. As I said, if you want more subways, advocate for more subways, but asking the railroads to be more like subways is just preposterous. They are commuter rails. It's like trying to change fast ferries into the Staten Island ferry. They have different uses and different bases.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

Germany and Switzerland are moving to nationally coordinated clockface schedules in which you can expect trains every hour on the hour or every half hour or fifteen or whatever at a given station, with timed connections at major hubs. As part of this, purely express trains will not exist, because it is more important that trains meet the schedule consistently than to run as fast as possible, so instead they run as fast as necessary and still make convenient stops. 

In fact this is part of a larger EU-wide scheme to bring consistent clock scheduling to all of European rail. 

Yeah, but you're comparing Western Europe, which has had an intricate train system in place for decades to our hodge-podge of a train network. No comparison. The Germans and Swiss invest heavily in their rail system, just as the Italians, French, etc. The conversation has only started here in the U.S. In Italy, I used to go regularly by train from Florence to Milan, Venice, Genoa, Turin, etc., and most trips were 2-3 hours. Bologna is a transfer hub to get to other Northern parts in Italy, so you had an hour train ride to Bologna, then you switch in Bologna (Stazione Centrale) and continue your trip to wherever, but with Frecciarossa, I am sure they have paired down commute times even further.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[B35 via Church]

58 minutes ago, Mtatransit said:

To be fair, most of the world don't have the specific distinction of it being "subway" and "commuter rail". That is a purely North American concept.

Perhaps, but some people (on these parts at least) do have a tendency to go nuts with suggesting infill stations when it comes to the RR....

7 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yeah, but it's comparing apples to oranges. The  is a hodge-podge of former companies that have been merged together over the years.

For a forum that is supposedly "pro  workers", it is strange that the conversation of reducing man power on the railroads keeps coming up, as that would clearly lead to people losing their jobs. I would argue that the structure of the service makes it more expensive as well, as it is again a commuter rail service and not a subway, so just like express buses, you don't have the same turnover. The unions will never go for less staff, and I don't blame them. At the same time, it makes no sense to try to shape the railroad into a subway operation when it is not a subway. The  is looking at other ways to reduce operational costs, but as far as the manpower... You will never get those costs down, as pensions and other overhead costs continue to go up. You would need a significant amount of trains and ridership to bring down the cost, and the reality is the railroads are not set up to deal with such a capacity. As I said, if you want more subways, advocate for more subways, but asking the railroads to be more like subways is just preposterous. They are commuter rails. It's like trying to change fast ferries into the Staten Island ferry. They have different uses and different bases.

Anything to not have to deal with buses (locals or expresses), that's all that is.... It's something I picked up on very early in this online transit community (not just on this particular forum, but on ones that predate this place as well).... It's one thing to use the RR's as they're currently set up, to avert the subway (LI riders have been quite vocal about this regarding the LIRR in the past) - it's another to make the RR's more like local services....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, B35 via Church said:

Perhaps, but some people (on these parts at least) do have a tendency to go nuts with suggesting infill stations when it comes to the RR....

Anything to not have to deal with buses (locals or expresses), that's all that is.... It's something I picked up on very early in this online transit community (not just on this particular forum, but on ones that predate this place as well).... It's one thing to use the RR's as they're currently set up, to avert the subway (LI riders have been quite vocal about this regarding the LIRR in the past) - it's another to make the RR's more like local services....

Funny you mentioned that. Never thought of it, but it would explain a lot. Something else I'd point out is that if anything, some trips by railroad have actually become longer. At least on my line, it feels like the trips are about 10 minutes longer now than before since that accident at Spuyten Duyvil. I guess they reduced the speeds and so they padded the run times considerably. The only trains where it seems as if the times are roughly what they used to be is on the semi-express trains that skip Marble Hill during the week and go straight to Riverdale after 125th. 

[B35 via Church]

1 minute ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Funny you mentioned that. Never thought of it, but it would explain a lot. Something else I'd point out is that if anything, some trips by railroad have actually become longer. At least on my line, it feels like the trips are about 10 minutes longer now than before since that accident at Spuyten Duyvil. I guess they reduced the speeds and so they padded the run times considerably. The only trains where it seems as if the times are roughly what they used to be is on the semi-express trains that skip Marble Hill during the week and go straight to Riverdale after 125th. 

Some more food for thought....

These same people that have been averting the subway due to covid.... It's been noticed that bus usage in this city is closer to being to their pre-covid levels than subway usage is, so I wonder how many people (that used to use the subway far more, but of which are not taking buses now) are embarking on the LIRR/MNRR more now.....

I'm back working in Nassau county, but no where near the main line.... Matter fact, I'm not really near any branch of the LIRR, so I couldn't tell you what's going on with LIRR..... Last time I joyrode out to Suffolk county, that ride to Huntington was painstakingly god-awful (but that's due to the 3rd track project, so that's understandable).... Anyway, the express bus isn't an option either, since the first reverse peak trip in the morning to NST would get me to LIJ too late (nevermind the walk I'd have to do after the fact)... Although NICEbus (n26) is more proximate, for damn sure I'm not relying on NICEbus to get to work....

As far as MNRR goes, the Harlem line locals appear to me like they've been slowed down a bit as well.....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

Some more food for thought....

These same people that have been averting the subway due to covid.... It's been noticed that bus usage in this city is closer to being to their pre-covid levels than subway usage is, so I wonder how many people (that used to use the subway far more, but of which are not taking buses now) are embarking on the LIRR/MNRR more now.....

I'm back working in Nassau county, but no where near the main line.... Matter fact, I'm not really near any branch of the LIRR, so I couldn't tell you what's going on with LIRR..... Last time I joyrode out to Suffolk county, that ride to Huntington was painstakingly god-awful (but that's due to the 3rd track project, so that's understandable).... Anyway, the express bus isn't an option either, since the first reverse peak trip in the morning to NST would get me to LIJ too late (nevermind the walk I'd have to do after the fact)... Although NICEbus (n26) is more proximate, for damn sure I'm not relying on NICEbus to get to work....

As far as MNRR goes, the Harlem line locals appear to me like they've been slowed down a bit as well.....

I would say that the people taking MNRR are not just avoiding the subway because of COVID, but also because of crime. There have been quite a few news stories of late where people are interviewed after an stabbing or shooting or what have you, and they flat out state that they've been avoiding the subway and taking say the local buses. The times that I have been taking MNRR, they have been increasingly more crowded during off-peak periods than usual, almost like what they would be normally. Peak service (off-peak fares still charged during peak periods) has still been so so.

[B35 via Church]

35 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I would say that the people taking MNRR are not just avoiding the subway because of COVID, but also because of crime. There have been quite a few news stories of late where people are interviewed after an stabbing or shooting or what have you, and they flat out state that they've been avoiding the subway and taking say the local buses. The times that I have been taking MNRR, they have been increasingly more crowded during off-peak periods than usual, almost like what they would be normally. Peak service (off-peak fares still charged during peak periods) has still been so so.

Generally speaking, How vocal/irate do Westchesterians (and other northerners) / Nutmeggers (folks from CT) on MNRR get, when it comes to Bronxites (and/or Manhattanites/Queens patrons at Harlem - 125th) using MNRR for intra-city travel? As far as I realize, they don't appear to be near as anal as Nassau/Suffolk LIRR riders are when it comes to that....

Regardless, although I'm still not fond of making the RR's more subway-like either, suburbanites are going to have to come to grips with the subway not being the only form of heavy rail that urbanites have to patronize.... I mean, IDK of a single NYC resident (natives or transplants... lol) that particularly complain about/single out suburbanites that add/ed to peak hour subway crowding....

Edited May 23, 2021 by B35 via Church

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Generally speaking, How vocal/irate do Westchesterians (and other northerners) / Nutmeggers (folks from CT) on MNRR get, when it comes to Bronxites (and/or Manhattanites/Queens patrons at Harlem - 125th) using MNRR for intra-city travel? As far as I realize, they don't appear to be near as anal as Nassau/Suffolk LIRR riders are when it comes to that....

Regardless, although I'm still not fond of making the RR's more subway-like either, suburbanites are going to have to come to grips with the subway not being the only form of heavy rail that urbanites have to patronize.... I mean, IDK of a single NYC resident (natives or transplants... lol) that particularly complain about/single out suburbanites that add/ed to peak hour subway crowding....

When I bought monthly passes I did it often when I needed to be in Harlem, though usually I would take Hudson line trains, since I know the schedule well. I would say they generally don't care, and part of the reason is because they too do it. You think some guy from CT is going to buy a monthly pass and hop on the subway after a meeting from 125th? lol Same thing when I've gone to Yankees Stadium to watch games and come from my office. They all take Metro-North to the game. Funny thing is I find Long Islanders more likely to use the subway than those Metro-North riders. I think the conductors are becoming more aware of how many people board at 125th or get off at 125th and now have try to make sure they check those tickets because in the past, the normally wouldn't start checking until after 125th going towards CT or Westchester.

What I have seen is people in Westchester arguing about why their fares are higher. One weekend I got on at the Riverdale station. Lady was arguing about how she boarded in Yonkers and was paying almost double for a ride that just over the City border was $4.50. lol That is one thing I find hilarious about some people in Westchester. The ones that live in say Yonkers in the not so tony parts hate having to pay for Metro-North, so they will drive down to Broadway, take up all of the parking in that part of Riverdale to hop on the train. A few times I would take the subway and be shocked at how crowded it was, and we're talking about getting on at 231st or 238th.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[B35 via Church]

41 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

When I bought monthly passes I did it often when I needed to be in Harlem, though usually I would take Hudson line trains, since I know the schedule well. I would say they generally don't care, and part of the reason is because they too do it. You think some guy from CT is going to buy a monthly pass and hop on the subway after a meeting from 125th? lol Same thing when I've gone to Yankees Stadium to watch games and come from my office. They all take Metro-North to the game. Funny thing is I find Long Islanders more likely to use the subway than those Metro-North riders. I think the conductors are becoming more aware of how many people board at 125th or get off at 125th and now have try to make sure they check those tickets because in the past, the normally wouldn't start checking until after 125th going towards CT or Westchester.

What I have seen is people in Westchester arguing about why their fares are higher. One weekend I got on at the Riverdale station. Lady was arguing about how she boarded in Yonkers and was paying almost double for a ride that just over the City border was $4.50. lol That is one thing I find hilarious about some people in Westchester. The ones that live in say Yonkers in the not so tony parts hate having to pay for Metro-North, so they will drive down to Broadway, take up all of the parking in that part of Riverdale to hop on the train. A few times I would take the subway and be shocked at how crowded it was, and we're talking about getting on at 231st or 238th.

Along with their attitudes within, that's ultimately what I'm getting at... Nassau/Suffolk LIRR riders want a certain exclusivity to the RR, but want to confine NYC patrons (that are traveling within the city) to the subway - when suburban LI-ers use the subway in mass numbers in their own right, after disembarking the LIRR at Penn.... Proverbial having their cake & eating it too.... We can use yours, but stay the f*** off ours - like their shit don't stink....

Now that you mention it, come to think of it, I've been on MNRR trains in the past where fares were being disputed also... It usually happened on the Harlem line from riders having boarded at (or are heading to) White Plains.... LIRR riders OTOH don't specifically dispute fares down to the dollar amount... They're either too busy hiding in the bathroom or making up some elaborate lie as to why they don't have a ticket, instead.... IDK how many times I've been on the LIRR where trains were delayed at Jamaica b/c the authorities had to get involved with a fare beater.....

Yonkers patrons (in the not so tony parts, as you put it.... lol) are too busy taking buses to 242nd or Woodlawn to care about whatever's going on with the MNRR.... While there are park & riders at 242nd or 238th (I've personally never seen them down at 231st, but I'll take your word for it), a lot of that usage on the that far up the line are bus riders that, large in part, are doing a shit ton of xferring at Getty Sq... Same deal with Hempstead (that doesn't have a tony part to speak of !) with the whole bombarding n6's to the or whatever.... While I certainly get it, it's still crazy how much the LIRR is shunned by Nassau patrons at Hempstead.... There's a certain shunning of MNRR Yonkers also (with those aforementioned congregants of bus riders over at Getty Sq), but it's not nearly as apparent to me.... The Yonkers/Hempstead comparison in general (not just involving public transit) is a good case study when it comes to analyzing LI's flaws vs. Westchester's flaws... It's the one that's the most constantly pulled on....

[bobtehpanda]

7 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yeah, but you're comparing Western Europe, which has had an intricate train system in place for decades to our hodge-podge of a train network. No comparison. The Germans and Swiss invest heavily in their rail system, just as the Italians, French, etc. The conversation has only started here in the U.S. In Italy, I used to go regularly by train from Florence to Milan, Venice, Genoa, Turin, etc., and most trips were 2-3 hours. Bologna is a transfer hub to get to other Northern parts in Italy, so you had an hour train ride to Bologna, then you switch in Bologna (Stazione Centrale) and continue your trip to wherever, but with Frecciarossa, I am sure they have paired down commute times even further.

In the grand scheme of things it takes 2h 25 to get to Albany, which is comparable or faster than driving depending on traffic conditions, and a minute or two on top is not going to change that. Flying is even worse given how long it takes during the rush to even get to LGA or JFK or EWR.

[Lex]

3 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Along with their attitudes within, that's ultimately what I'm getting at... Nassau/Suffolk LIRR riders want a certain exclusivity to the RR, but want to confine NYC patrons (that are traveling within the city) to the subway - when suburban LI-ers use the subway in mass numbers in their own right, after disembarking the LIRR at Penn.... Proverbial having their cake & eating it too.... We can use yours, but stay the f*** off ours - like their shit don't stink....

Now that you mention it, come to think of it, I've been on MNRR trains in the past where fares were being disputed also... It usually happened on the Harlem line from riders having boarded at (or are heading to) White Plains.... LIRR riders OTOH don't specifically dispute fares down to the dollar amount... They're either too busy hiding in the bathroom or making up some elaborate lie as to why they don't have a ticket, instead.... IDK how many times I've been on the LIRR where trains were delayed at Jamaica b/c the authorities had to get involved with a fare beater.....

Yonkers patrons (in the not so tony parts, as you put it.... lol) are too busy taking buses to 242nd or Woodlawn to care about whatever's going on with the MNRR.... While there are park & riders at 242nd or 238th (I've personally never seen them down at 231st, but I'll take your word for it), a lot of that usage on the that far up the line are bus riders that, large in part, are doing a shit ton of xferring at Getty Sq... Same deal with Hempstead (that doesn't have a tony part to speak of !) with the whole bombarding n6's to the or whatever.... While I certainly get it, it's still crazy how much the LIRR is shunned by Nassau patrons at Hempstead.... There's a certain shunning of MNRR Yonkers also (with those aforementioned congregants of bus riders over at Getty Sq), but it's not nearly as apparent to me.... The Yonkers/Hempstead comparison in general (not just involving public transit) is a good case study when it comes to analyzing LI's flaws vs. Westchester's flaws... It's the one that's the most constantly pulled on....

I think it helps that Yonkers actually has some reverse-peak potential by train, unlike Hempstead.