late evening, manhattan-bound local E trains moving very slowly

[Marco927]

I get off work late evenings and take t he E train from Jamaica Center to Jackson Heights. I usually arrive at Jamaica Center after 11:30 pm. The Manhatttan-bound E trains are running local at those times.

The wait is usually quite long for a train, 15 minutes or longer is not unusual.  I expect MTA to run the late evening and overnight E train at a higher frequency, because so many people take the E train to and from JFK, via the AirTrain at Sutphin Ave. The closure of several stations on the J line also increase the passengers on the E Line.

On late evenings, Manhattan-bound E trains run on local track. It moves at a very slow speed between 67 Ave and Grand Ave. I think this is caused by construction on the express tracks or on station platforms. But I couldn't see any. Why the low speed on E trains in Rego Park and Elmhurst?

[trainfan22]

The slow speed is most likely due to flagging on the tracks. 

 

 

Most subway lines run on 20 minute headways overnight, so waiting that long for an train at that time is normal.

[B35 via Church]

2 hours ago, Marco927 said:

The wait is usually quite long for a train, 15 minutes or longer is not unusual.  I expect MTA to run the late evening and overnight E train at a higher frequency, because so many people take the E train to and from JFK, via the AirTrain at Sutphin Ave. The closure of several stations on the J line also increase the passengers on the E Line.

How frequent do you expect late evening/overnight service to be, if 15 minutes would still be considered long?

21 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

The slow speed is most likely due to flagging on the tracks.

First thing that came to mind also, and TBH, I expect it to happen every single time I take the subway during those hours (regardless of line).....

Edited August 27, 2022 by B35 via Church

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I would avoid the QBL wherever possible during late nights, the slow speeds are just insane. Last summer really tested my patience and that was the final straw for me. I didn't have much of an option last year like back in 2020 (when the QM17 was running overnights...that such was a lifesaver). 

I'll take the out to Flushing and catch the Q58 there at night before I'll take the to Grand Avenue and transfer there. It's much more reliable. Also, worth noting that one of the reasons I've also taken the Q58 at night is because I can't also make the Q11 at Woodhaven Boulevard because the is too goddamn slow. 

I honestly wish the Q32 ran all night. The can also be atrocious, and I can transfer to the Q53 (which actually connects to the Q11 at Woodhaven Boulevard at night, unlike the slow ass train). The fact that you have Q32 buses getting into Penn past 2 AM and deadheading back to Queens (when the last bus departs Penn at 1 AM) is just crazy to me. Same thing with buses DHing out to Manhattan to start at 4:45 AM. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[B35 via Church]

9 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

I would avoid the QBL wherever possible during late nights, the slow speeds are just insane. Last summer really tested my patience and that was the final straw for me. I didn't have much of an option last year like back in 2020 (when the QM17 was running overnights...that such was a lifesaver). 

I'll take the out to Flushing and catch the Q58 there at night before I'll take the to Grand Avenue and transfer there. It's much more reliable. Also, worth noting that one of the reasons I've also taken the Q58 at night is because I can't also make the Q11 at Woodhaven Boulevard because the is to goddamn slow. 

I honestly wish the Q32 ran all night. The can also be atrocious, and I can transfer to the Q53 (which actually connects to the Q11 at Woodhaven Boulevard at night, unlike the slow ass train). The fact that you have Q32 buses getting into Penn past 2 AM and deadheading back to Queens (when the last bus departs Penn at 1 AM) is just crazy to me. Same thing with buses DHing out to Manhattan to start at 4:45 AM. 

Fortunately, I'm on the opposite of that spectrum with the (existence of the) overnight B62, being a Brooklyn resident.... Many moons ago, I used to do the B62 to the Q66 with some regularity.... Connection around 2:30am at QBP between the two was practically seamless.... Anyway, even though they both (B62 & the ) run Downtown Brooklyn, I can't put up with the latter during those hours....  To your point/scenario/situation, I will say though that I do miss when the Q32 had that added overnight service, back when the subways were temporarily shuttered for "cleaning", even those trains themselves were still in operation OOS ....

I refrain from taking the QB line during the day anyway, so there's not much of a chance I'd bother taking it at night....

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

37 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Fortunately, I'm on the opposite of that spectrum with the (existence of the) overnight B62, being a Brooklyn resident.... Many moons ago, I used to do the B62 to the Q66 with some regularity.... Connection around 2:30am at QBP between the two was practically seamless.... Anyway, even though they both (B62 & the ) run Downtown Brooklyn, I can't put up with the latter during those hours....  To your point/scenario/situation, I will say though that I do miss when the Q32 had that added overnight service, back when the subways were temporarily shuttered for "cleaning", even those trains themselves were still in operation OOS ....

I refrain from taking the QB line during the day anyway, so there's not much of a chance I'd bother taking it at night....

Yeah agreed, the overnight Q32 service should have been a thing even without that overnight subway shutdown. 

The only other bus option at night is the Q60, but I'd have to go over to 60th Street & 2nd Ave. More times than not it's a hassle unless I can catch one of the buses on the avenues. That's why more often than not, when I'm out late I make my way to the .

As far as daytime goes, I don't have much of an option with not avoiding the QBL at least for the time being. While I would just take the Q47 to the , there's construction by 69th Street & Queens Boulevard that has all NB traffic on one lane. With the light being like 20 seconds or so before you have to wait it out for all the Queens Boulevard lights, it eats up so much time through that area, so I gotta take the Q38 to the . 

Between missing trains / ghost trains (there's a certain trip on the in the morning that never shows actually shows up, but it's always listed on countdown clocks and arrival times), uneven waits and missing trains during rush hours, it's a mess. That's also without the usual mess that happens every day on that line. Speaking of that, there's an advisory that service is going to be slow and reduced every day until September because of a faulty switch at 71st Ave that needs to be replaced. Another reason right there to not bother with the QBL if it's not needed. 

 

[Prospect]

6 hours ago, Marco927 said:

I get off work late evenings and take t he E train from Jamaica Center to Jackson Heights. I usually arrive at Jamaica Center after 11:30 pm. The Manhatttan-bound E trains are running local at those times.

The wait is usually quite long for a train, 15 minutes or longer is not unusual.  I expect MTA to run the late evening and overnight E train at a higher frequency, because so many people take the E train to and from JFK, via the AirTrain at Sutphin Ave. The closure of several stations on the J line also increase the passengers on the E Line.

On late evenings, Manhattan-bound E trains run on local track. It moves at a very slow speed between 67 Ave and Grand Ave. I think this is caused by construction on the express tracks or on station platforms. But I couldn't see any. Why the low speed on E trains in Rego Park and Elmhurst?

It's due to the flagging rules that are in place to protect track workers on the trackbed from trains passing through their work zones. To save time, once you get out of work, I'd consider walking 5 blocks to Parsons Blvd/Archer Ave, catch the Q60 there (~11:40 PM) and then transfer in front of the Queens Center Mall to the Q53-SBS that will drop you off by the Jackson Heights-Roosevelt Avenue station. It'll save you the headache of sitting in a train crawling the whole length of Queens Boulevard. It was like that back when I was in college nearly 10 years ago and it's the same crap every night. I stopped taking trains along Queens Blvd overnight several years ago for the same reason. Try taking the bus instead.

[shiznit1987]

The only thing is that due to the driver shortages, the Q60 can be hit or miss at night. If I'm coming from the city, I'll always take the  to Roosevelt then assess what's running from there (Q53, the OBL, Q47 etc). 

[B35 via Church]

3 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Yeah agreed, the overnight Q32 service should have been a thing even without that overnight subway shutdown. 

The only other bus option at night is the Q60, but I'd have to go over to 60th Street & 2nd Ave. More times than not it's a hassle unless I can catch one of the buses on the avenues. That's why more often than not, when I'm out late I make my way to the .

As far as daytime goes, I don't have much of an option with not avoiding the QBL at least for the time being. While I would just take the Q47 to the , there's construction by 69th Street & Queens Boulevard that has all NB traffic on one lane. With the light being like 20 seconds or so before you have to wait it out for all the Queens Boulevard lights, it eats up so much time through that area, so I gotta take the Q38 to the . 

Between missing trains / ghost trains (there's a certain trip on the in the morning that never shows actually shows up, but it's always listed on countdown clocks and arrival times), uneven waits and missing trains during rush hours, it's a mess. That's also without the usual mess that happens every day on that line. Speaking of that, there's an advisory that service is going to be slow and reduced every day until September because of a faulty switch at 71st Ave that needs to be replaced. Another reason right there to not bother with the QBL if it's not needed.

Yeah, late nights from Jamaica, I end up taking the Q60 to the B62 to get back to Brooklyn most the time... Very rarely I consider the Q54 to the B46 (multiple reasons) or the Q56 to the B12 (while the B12 is frequent enough during those hours, I can never seem to catch a WB Q56 for whatever the reason).... Speaking of construction, I basically have no use for the anymore, being that construction has it temporarily stunted at 121st... I generally abhor shuttle buses anyway, so for damn sure I'm not taking a shuttle bus, just to get dumped off in the middle of much of nothing inparticular at Van Wyck.... I get that there's tons of reverse commuters on the , but you clearly still have folks trying to get to points well east (of Van Wyck).... At least during the late night hours, they can run those suckers to Jamaica Center or something....

Tying this back to the QB line, while I've never bothered clocking it, I wonder how comparable time-wise the late night Q60 is b/w, say, Briarwood subway & QBP, compared to the overnight b/w those same 2 points....

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

8 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Yeah, late nights from Jamaica, I end up taking the Q60 to the B62 to get back to Brooklyn most the time... Very rarely I consider the Q54 to the B46 (multiple reasons) or the Q56 to the B12 (while the B12 is frequent enough during those hours, I can never seem to catch a WB Q56 for whatever the reason).... Speaking of construction, I basically have no use for the anymore, being that construction has it temporarily stunted at 121st... I generally abhor shuttle buses anyway, so for damn sure I'm not taking a shuttle bus, just to get dumped off in the middle of much of nothing inparticular at Van Wyck.... I get that there's tons of reverse commuters on the , but you clearly still have folks trying to get to points well east (of Van Wyck).... At least during the late night hours, they can run those suckers to Jamaica Center or something....

Tying this back to the QB line, while I've never bothered clocking it, I wonder how comparable time-wise the late night Q60 is b/w, say, Briarwood subway & QBP, compared to the overnight b/w those same 2 points....

I know that to/from Jamaica LIRR the  is scheduled to take longer from Manhattan than from Jamaica. It's given around 35 minutes towards Jamaica, and around 27 minutes or so towards Manhattan. The Q60 is scheduled anywhere from 40-45 minutes. With the flagging though I'd say the  is just as fast at best, if not slower than the Q60 between Jamaica LIRR and Queens Plaza. The scheduled difference is less from Briarwood, so it's a better chance that the two will be similar in reality.

Not something I would want to endure again lol, but it would interesting. All I know is that the travel time on the felt like an eternity just between Roosevelt and Grand Avenues alone, let alone the even slower section between Queens Plaza and Roosevelt Avenue. 

[NewFlyer 230]

23 hours ago, Marco927 said:

I get off work late evenings and take t he E train from Jamaica Center to Jackson Heights. I usually arrive at Jamaica Center after 11:30 pm. The Manhatttan-bound E trains are running local at those times.

The wait is usually quite long for a train, 15 minutes or longer is not unusual.  I expect MTA to run the late evening and overnight E train at a higher frequency, because so many people take the E train to and from JFK, via the AirTrain at Sutphin Ave. The closure of several stations on the J line also increase the passengers on the E Line.

On late evenings, Manhattan-bound E trains run on local track. It moves at a very slow speed between 67 Ave and Grand Ave. I think this is caused by construction on the express tracks or on station platforms. But I couldn't see any. Why the low speed on E trains in Rego Park and Elmhurst?

The  tends to run slow because of nonstop G.O’s along Queens Blvd.

I dread taking the QBL overnight because there are times where it has taken me double or triple the time just to get home. When I’m coming from Midtown at night past 10:30/11pm, I prefer taking the  to Flushing or the LIRR to Jamaica for bus service home. 

If I’m coming from Williamsburg for example I like to take the  to the  or the Q59 to the Q88 home and I completely avoid the subways. The messed up thing on the MTA’s part is that they know these G.O’s screw up commute times for people but they don’t offer any convenient alternatives. Why can’t cross honoring on the LIRR be a thing overnights starting at 11pm-5am between Penn Station and Jamaica. The commute from Penn to Jamaica is only about 20 minutes which beats spending 20 minutes just trying to get from Lexington 53rd to Queens Plaza on the E. I think NYC needs a dedicated late night bus system to better meet the demands of the public. I would love to see the Q60 extended to perhaps 42nd and 6th Ave or Columbus circle when these G.O’s take place. However speed cameras are on all the time so now driver can’t completely zoom down their routes anymore which is a bummer.

17 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Yeah, late nights from Jamaica, I end up taking the Q60 to the B62 to get back to Brooklyn most the time... Very rarely I consider the Q54 to the B46 (multiple reasons) or the Q56 to the B12 (while the B12 is frequent enough during those hours, I can never seem to catch a WB Q56 for whatever the reason).... Speaking of construction, I basically have no use for the anymore, being that construction has it temporarily stunted at 121st... I generally abhor shuttle buses anyway, so for damn sure I'm not taking a shuttle bus, just to get dumped off in the middle of much of nothing inparticular at Van Wyck.... I get that there's tons of reverse commuters on the , but you clearly still have folks trying to get to points well east (of Van Wyck).... At least during the late night hours, they can run those suckers to Jamaica Center or something....

Tying this back to the QB line, while I've never bothered clocking it, I wonder how comparable time-wise the late night Q60 is b/w, say, Briarwood subway & QBP, compared to the overnight b/w those same 2 points....

It’s all about saving $$$ and I hate that they have this mentality all the time when it should be about the needs of the people. It is an inconvenience to have to get off at 121st, take a shuttle bus a few blocks down to the Van Wyck then wait for the  which depending on the time of day could have you wait up to 10-15 minutes, to then have to get off at Jamaica Center for a bus. 
I get that Jamaica is already clogged up with buses but when the  is out they have plenty of shuttle buses lined up on Archer between 153rd street and Parson Blvd ready to go. The  which is already a slow infrequent line should just have its shuttle buses go to Parsons Blvd/Archer Ave. Even skip stop service to Lower Manhattan is still slower than the LIRR to the  or LIRR to Atlantic Terminal for a train to Manhattan. They are just making it harder for passengers just for the sake of saving some money. 

[N6 Limited]

The QBL is horrible in the evenings.  Before defaulting to the LIRR, there were times where I’d take the  to Flushing for the Q27 to avoid the torture.
 

As others have mentioned, the Q60 is a viable alternative. I’ve had to bail the QBL during late nite in-station dwell delays, and jump on a Jamaica bound Q60 as I saw it approaching in bus time or transit app. 
 

I thought these delays would stop after CBTC installation, apparently not.

[CenSin]

Weren’t they considering portable magnetic clip barriers which snap onto the tunnel structures? If they’re designed to prevent track workers from trespassing onto live rail, then there is no problem with running trains at normal speeds.

The key is making these barriers truly impermeable so that the safety assumption is solid. During Sea Beach southbound local track work, I would see track workers simply hop over the barriers, despite the northbound express track being an extra 12 feet away from the work zone.

[checkmatechamp13]

1 hour ago, CenSin said:

Weren’t they considering portable magnetic clip barriers which snap onto the tunnel structures? If they’re designed to prevent track workers from trespassing onto live rail, then there is no problem with running trains at normal speeds.

The key is making these barriers truly impermeable so that the safety assumption is solid. During Sea Beach southbound local track work, I would see track workers simply hop over the barriers, despite the northbound express track being an extra 12 feet away from the work zone.

Sometimes the work needs to be done directly on the live track (e.g. Inspections) and the work zone is a moving one (the flagger escorts the inspectors down the track). For long-term work like between 36th and 59th a few years ago, they usually install something more permanent.

[CenSin]

3 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Sometimes the work needs to be done directly on the live track (e.g. Inspections) and the work zone is a moving one (the flagger escorts the inspectors down the track). For long-term work like between 36th and 59th a few years ago, they usually install something more permanent.

That was unlikely the case for the Sea Beach track work. It was done when trains were stopping at only Bay Parkway in one direction. At that time, the southbound local track was out of service and they had the whole half of the R.O.W. to themselves. When they did need to work on the other two tracks over the weekend, they diverted the trains over West End.

[bulk88]

  

On 8/27/2022 at 6:12 PM, shiznit1987 said:

The only thing is that due to the driver shortages, the Q60 can be hit or miss at night. If I'm coming from the city, I'll always take the  to Roosevelt then assess what's running from there (Q53, the OBL, Q47 etc). 

The 7 in Steinway tube is suspended half of all weekends, ALL YEAR LONG, the 7 is SINGLE TRACKED under east river, EVERY WEEKDAY, ALL YEAR LONG. They are STILL ripping out the legacy IRT signals (scrap metal) to this day, 10 feet of copper wire trunk line and 10 feet of pnumatic air pipe per weekend.