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LIRR reverses course, will restore direct trains to Atlantic Terminal on Sep 5th.

Lawrence St

By Lawrence St,
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B35 via Church

B35 via Church

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Translation - They overestimated the demand for Grand Central/ESA & underrated the demand for (direct) Brooklyn service.... I could only imagine that mad dash from tracks 1-3 to tracks 11/12 at Jamaica having gotten real old, real fast...

As far as night time service is concerned, you'd think that would've been a no-brainer.... After a certain hour, East Midtown dies faster (and harder) than West Midtown (yeah, it's unfair, due to TSQ being the attraction that it is worldwide, but still gotta factor that in).....

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BM5 via Woodhaven

BM5 via Woodhaven

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LOL, so restoring direct service to Brooklyn on the Long Beach Branch means only getting one AM trip. Also, in a lot of cases they're still simply dicking around with the departures. Now you'll have a bunch of inconsistent service patterns. 

The Ronkonkoma Branch out of Grand Central will have a 90 minute gap in the early PM rush / shoulder period. With respect to the PM trip changes, the one I agree with is the 4:22 PM trip switch to Penn. The way they scheduled that train is dumb. It currently leaves 3 minutes before the next Ronkonkoma Branch train out of Grand Central (4:25 PM to Ronkonkoma) but it gets to Hicksville, Bethpage, and Farmingdale 2-3 minutes AFTER the 4:25 PM train because it stops in Mineola. They should switch up the 4:22 PM train to Penn and make it leave a little earlier to be in-between the 4:01 and 4:34 PM trips. The current 4:09 PM trip from Grand Central could have been moved up instead to maintain a 60 minute headway from the previous train, and to space it out from the 4:25 PM trip. 

Ultimately though they actually need to revise the service patterns instead of just switching trips here and there (this goes for all branches). In the PM rush, Ronkonkoma Branch trains from Grand Central should for the most part be roughly every 30 minutes, and stop at Jamaica, Mineola and/or Hicksville, then all branch stops to Ronkonkoma. That would still be a decent enough frequency, and trains that are freed up can be used to reallocate to service on the branch from Penn Station. There's no need for all these super express trips they're getting. Ironically though the only rush hour Ronkonkoma Branch trip from Grand Central that seems to be fairly loaded or packed is that 5:39 PM super express trip. Perhaps that one can be kept. Any super expresses should be ultimately starting from Penn, where there is more demand. Below is something that I had in mind (times are approximate)

 

Grand Central - Ronkonkoma (9 trains, -1 from existing)

  • Local - 4:01 PM, 4:31 PM, 5:01 PM, 5:31 PM, 6:01 PM, 6:31 PM, 7:01 PM, 7:31 PM 
  • Super Express - 5:39 PM

Penn Station - Ronkonkoma (12 trains, +1 from existing)

  • Local - 4:00 PM*, 4:25 PM*, 4:45 PM, 5:15 PM, 5:45 PM, 6:15 PM, 6:45 PM, 7:15 PM, 7:45 PM
  • Super Express - 4:35 PM, 5:10 PM, 6:10 PM

Local Stops = Jamaica, Mineola/Hicksville, Bethpage and all other branch stops to Ronkonkoma (minus Pinelawn)

Super Express = Jamaica, Brentwood, Central Islip, Ronkonkoma

* = First stop after Jamaica is Bethpage, followed by Deer Park then all stops

Also interesting that Babylon Branch service to/from Grand Central actually gets an increase with that former Atlantic Terminal trip being rerouted. Would have thought that they would just discontinue the thing. 

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven
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B35 via Church

B35 via Church

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4 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

LOL, so restoring direct service to Brooklyn on the Long Beach Branch means only getting one AM trip. Also, in a lot of cases they're still simply dicking around with the departures. Now you'll have a bunch of inconsistent service patterns. 

The Ronkonkoma Branch out of Grand Central will have a 90 minute gap in the early PM rush / shoulder period. With respect to the PM trip changes, the one I agree with is the 4:22 PM trip switch to Penn. The way they scheduled that train is dumb. It currently leaves 3 minutes before the next Ronkonkoma Branch train out of Grand Central (4:25 PM to Ronkonkoma) but it gets to Hicksville, Bethpage, and Farmingdale 2-3 minutes AFTER the 4:25 PM train because it stops in Mineola. They should switch up the 4:22 PM train to Penn and make it leave a little earlier to be in-between the 4:01 and 4:34 PM trips. The current 4:09 PM trip from Grand Central could have been moved up instead to maintain a 60 minute headway from the previous train, and to space it out from the 4:25 PM trip. 

Ultimately though they actually need to revise the service patterns instead of just switching trips here and there (this goes for all branches). In the PM rush, Ronkonkoma Branch trains from Grand Central should for the most part be roughly every 30 minutes, and stop at Jamaica, Mineola and/or Hicksville, then all branch stops to Ronkonkoma. That would still be a decent enough frequency, and trains that are freed up can be used to reallocate to service on the branch from Penn Station. There's no need for all these super express trips they're getting. Ironically though the only rush hour Ronkonkoma Branch trip from Grand Central that seems to be fairly loaded or packed is that 5:39 PM super express trip. Perhaps that one can be kept. Any super expresses should be ultimately starting from Penn, where there is more demand. Below is something that I had in mind (times are approximate)

  Hide contents

Grand Central - Ronkonkoma (9 trains, -1 from existing)

  • Local - 4:01 PM, 4:31 PM, 5:01 PM, 5:31 PM, 6:01 PM, 6:31 PM, 7:01 PM, 7:31 PM 
  • Super Express - 5:39 PM

Penn Station - Ronkonkoma (12 trains, +1 from existing)

  • Local - 4:00 PM*, 4:25 PM*, 4:45 PM, 5:15 PM, 5:45 PM, 6:15 PM, 6:45 PM, 7:15 PM, 7:45 PM
  • Super Express - 4:35 PM, 5:10 PM, 6:10 PM

Local Stops = Jamaica, Mineola/Hicksville, Bethpage and all other branch stops to Ronkonkoma (minus Pinelawn)

Super Express = Jamaica, Brentwood, Central Islip, Ronkonkoma

* = First stop after Jamaica is Bethpage, followed by Deer Park then all stops

Also interesting that Babylon Branch service to/from Grand Central actually gets an increase with that former Atlantic Terminal trip being rerouted. Would have thought that they would just discontinue the thing. 

Being perfectly honest, as a former LIRR rider, I never put much stock into (a need for) consistent headways... It was always more about how close to the schedule an arriving train, actually arrived (and eventually departed).... That isn't to say yeah, I'm okay with something stupid like 90 min. headways, but the need for trains along (whatever) branch having a consistent 15, 20, 30 min. headways I find to be rather immaterial....

There's a lot of P&R-ing / K&R-ing in the morning for the peak AM commute, so people usually arrive like, what, 15+ mins ahead of the scheduled train they're aiming to catch.... I could never be one of these people sitting inside my car at some parking lot to wait for a train, but that's besides the point... Anyway, as with anything, of course, there are people that try to push the limit & try to arrive less than 5 mins. of the train they're trying to catch, but I never once felt/thought that the mindset of LIRR commuters being, yeah, if trains arrived more uniformly, I'd be more satisfied with my commute..... Frequently, sure, but not so much uniformly....

As for the peak PM commute, there's the notorious mad dash to try to catch a particular train.... You're always going to have that type of chaos at Penn & GCT (with the new changes, since the inception of tracks 11/12, you can throw Jamaica into the mix, where there's been an exponential increase in commuters scurrying around like packrats trying to catch the train)... The real issue is that Jamaica station (unlike Atlantic Terminal) isn't built for feasibly having masses of people switch between platforms/tracks.... Pretty sure that went into their decision to go about "....making changes to our schedules based on ridership data and customer feedback."

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Lawrence St

Lawrence St

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13 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

LOL, so restoring direct service to Brooklyn on the Long Beach Branch means only getting one AM trip. Also, in a lot of cases they're still simply dicking around with the departures. Now you'll have a bunch of inconsistent service patterns. 

The Ronkonkoma Branch out of Grand Central will have a 90 minute gap in the early PM rush / shoulder period. With respect to the PM trip changes, the one I agree with is the 4:22 PM trip switch to Penn. The way they scheduled that train is dumb. It currently leaves 3 minutes before the next Ronkonkoma Branch train out of Grand Central (4:25 PM to Ronkonkoma) but it gets to Hicksville, Bethpage, and Farmingdale 2-3 minutes AFTER the 4:25 PM train because it stops in Mineola. They should switch up the 4:22 PM train to Penn and make it leave a little earlier to be in-between the 4:01 and 4:34 PM trips. The current 4:09 PM trip from Grand Central could have been moved up instead to maintain a 60 minute headway from the previous train, and to space it out from the 4:25 PM trip. 

Ultimately though they actually need to revise the service patterns instead of just switching trips here and there (this goes for all branches). In the PM rush, Ronkonkoma Branch trains from Grand Central should for the most part be roughly every 30 minutes, and stop at Jamaica, Mineola and/or Hicksville, then all branch stops to Ronkonkoma. That would still be a decent enough frequency, and trains that are freed up can be used to reallocate to service on the branch from Penn Station. There's no need for all these super express trips they're getting. Ironically though the only rush hour Ronkonkoma Branch trip from Grand Central that seems to be fairly loaded or packed is that 5:39 PM super express trip. Perhaps that one can be kept. Any super expresses should be ultimately starting from Penn, where there is more demand. Below is something that I had in mind (times are approximate)

  Reveal hidden contents

Grand Central - Ronkonkoma (9 trains, -1 from existing)

  • Local - 4:01 PM, 4:31 PM, 5:01 PM, 5:31 PM, 6:01 PM, 6:31 PM, 7:01 PM, 7:31 PM 
  • Super Express - 5:39 PM

Penn Station - Ronkonkoma (12 trains, +1 from existing)

  • Local - 4:00 PM*, 4:25 PM*, 4:45 PM, 5:15 PM, 5:45 PM, 6:15 PM, 6:45 PM, 7:15 PM, 7:45 PM
  • Super Express - 4:35 PM, 5:10 PM, 6:10 PM

Local Stops = Jamaica, Mineola/Hicksville, Bethpage and all other branch stops to Ronkonkoma (minus Pinelawn)

Super Express = Jamaica, Brentwood, Central Islip, Ronkonkoma

* = First stop after Jamaica is Bethpage, followed by Deer Park then all stops

Also interesting that Babylon Branch service to/from Grand Central actually gets an increase with that former Atlantic Terminal trip being rerouted. Would have thought that they would just discontinue the thing. 

Perhaps this is because I don't use LIRR often, but why is the Atlantic Branch more heavily used then the GCM branch?

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Lex

Lex

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4 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Perhaps this is because I don't use LIRR often, but why is the Atlantic Branch more heavily used then the GCM branch?

Well, for one, Atlantic Terminal has existed in some form since 1877, whereas GCM hasn't even been open for a year. Then there's the number of people trying to reach parts of Brooklyn and Lower Manhattan to consider, which neither Manhattan terminus is particularly good at handling.

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Lawrence St

Lawrence St

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2 hours ago, Lex said:

Well, for one, Atlantic Terminal has existed in some form since 1877, whereas GCM hasn't even been open for a year. Then there's the number of people trying to reach parts of Brooklyn and Lower Manhattan to consider, which neither Manhattan terminus is particularly good at handling.

But couldn’t those going to Lower Manhattan take a GCM or Penn train and transfer to a quicker ride on the (2) or (4)?

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Lex

Lex

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8 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

But couldn’t those going to Lower Manhattan take a GCM or Penn train and transfer to a quicker ride on the (2) or (4)?

First off, "express" does not necessarily mean "faster". Second, if you think the crowds in Brooklyn are bad, try a train that trudged through everything north of 59th Street, only to have to pick up a bunch of people in Midtown while dropping loads of others off. Combined with the concept of proximity (hell, Brooklyn has more options in one place than Midtown), it's very easy for people to get to their destinations in approximately the same amount of time from Brooklyn as it would from Midtown (GCM's depth is especially glaring in this regard).

I didn't mention this earlier, but for some who may use Atlantic Terminal (albeit a minority), it would cost significantly less than to go through Penn Station while requiring far less time on average than using a bus + subway itinerary.

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xD4nn

xD4nn

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On 7/16/2023 at 3:47 AM, Lawrence St said:

Perhaps this is because I don't use LIRR often, but why is the Atlantic Branch more heavily used then the GCM branch?

Atlantic is not used more heavily than GCT lmao. I don't know where you got that from.

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  • 7 months later...
BelieveinMe

BelieveinMe

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On 7/18/2023 at 4:06 AM, xD4nn said:

The most vocal ones doesn’t mean they are the majority. A few loud voices doesn’t represent the whole group…

Uh oh.

I know that type of talk.

Your PERCEPTION is geared in favor of GCM, not Brooklyn service.

You seem to believe that regulating Brooklyn to "connector service" is a good thing?

Like You said, you might be the minority operationing under a bias.

Care to elaborate,or am I just speculating?

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