Jah Posted January 28, 2009 Share #26 Posted January 28, 2009 How about for C/Rs how school car teach them that they have to point at the C/R board before opening the doors. Does that make sense for you? They make the C/R point to the board because they treat us like idiots. They think if you point then you will not open if you're not on the board which isn't necessaraly true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Julio Posted January 28, 2009 Share #27 Posted January 28, 2009 They make the C/R point to the board because they treat us like idiots. They think if you point then you will not open if you're not on the board which isn't necessarily true. That's why I mentioned it. Supporting the theory that school car teaches employees stuff that makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGLL Posted January 28, 2009 Share #28 Posted January 28, 2009 OT here, but I just wanted to sympathize with you guys about the work conditions at MTA. My job has a similar environment--where one is encouraged to rat out another employee, rules change daily and it's not communicated to you yet you are responsible...etc. and so forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex L. Posted January 28, 2009 Share #29 Posted January 28, 2009 How about for C/Rs how school car teach them that they have to point at the C/R board before opening the doors. Does that make sense for you? School Car teaches that because Technical Standards & Procedures implemented the policy on request from someone higher up the food chain. Since it is a rule that a C/R must point at the Indication Board before opening the side doors, School Car would be remiss in their duties if they didn't teach it. As an aside, with this policy in place, it makes it much easier to spot the people who can't be bothered with the rules - like the T/O who opened up a G on the wrong side at Court Square (and had his probation extended) and the C/R just last weekend who opened up a G on the wrong side at Continental (who is now restricted). I guess they could remain in service, but what happens the next time they do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex L. Posted January 28, 2009 Share #30 Posted January 28, 2009 If you are so by the book then I can guarantee that you have NEVER made an interval on time!!! Sorry - the only line I could never get in on time was the . And I've worked every line in the system, except the OPTO shuttles. I just don't believe in the school way which these days is rat, rat, rat. They drill it into these guys heads to be rats when it is not necessary. They tell you that you and your partner are a team out there but to rat on them if any chance comes. So when is it necessary? Or is it ever necessary? There's at least one C/R in the IRT wishing he had ratted his T/O after multiple BIEs and a station overrun. Now they're both 006 and for no particularly good reason, since the RCC watched the whole incident thanks to ATS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jah Posted January 28, 2009 Share #31 Posted January 28, 2009 Sorry - the only line I could never get in on time was the . And I've worked every line in the system, except the OPTO shuttles. So when is it necessary? Or is it ever necessary? There's at least one C/R in the IRT wishing he had ratted his T/O after multiple BIEs and a station overrun. Now they're both 006 and for no particularly good reason, since the RCC watched the whole incident thanks to ATS. The way the schedules are written it is impossible for the railroad to run even close to on-time during the rush hours if operating according to school car instructions, this is why the "legal" documents that dispatchers clock trains on are written in pencil. This is also why MOST superintendents insist that their dispatchers put on time for late trains!! The schedules on alot of lines don't give enough time and the system keeps getting slower with new timers every year. As for being a rat yes if there is a unsafe condition such as multiple BIE's then the C/R has to do his thing. But for all of the petty B.S. no being a rat is not acccepable, you and your C/R are a team out there. Say you work the a few days a week and then the the rest. Your first stop on the you stop at the 10 car marker instead of the 8. Something like this should be no problem but according to school car th C/R should rat out the T/O and he will be taken out of service and most likely be offered 25 days and settle for 10 or 15. I haven't been down the road in a few years in passenger service but my friends tell me it's worse than ever if you don't operate a certain way you will be 10 minutes late every trip on certain lines. The schedule doesn't account for trains being cleaned out say at parsons while you wait at sutphin for 3-7 minutes when you're already late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted January 28, 2009 Share #32 Posted January 28, 2009 I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I keep seeing the phrase "hit a signal"...what does it mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jah Posted January 28, 2009 Share #33 Posted January 28, 2009 As an aside, with this policy in place, it makes it much easier to spot the people who can't be bothered with the rules - like the T/O who opened up a G on the wrong side at Court Square (and had his probation extended) This happened again? I remember a guy did that a few years back he got 25 days and wasn't allowed to pick OPTO for 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainfan22 Posted January 28, 2009 Share #34 Posted January 28, 2009 I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I keep seeing the phrase "hit a signal"...what does it mean? Go though a red light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex L. Posted January 29, 2009 Share #35 Posted January 29, 2009 This happened again? I remember a guy did that a few years back he got 25 days and wasn't allowed to pick OPTO for 2 years. This one wasn't even in OPTO service. He was a brand new open competitive T/O (who was never a C/R) "doing a favor" for his C/R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex L. Posted January 29, 2009 Share #36 Posted January 29, 2009 The way the schedules are written it is impossible for the railroad to run even close to on-time during the rush hours if operating according to school car instructions, this is why the "legal" documents that dispatchers clock trains on are written in pencil. This is also why MOST superintendents insist that their dispatchers put on time for late trains!! The schedules on alot of lines don't give enough time and the system keeps getting slower with new timers every year. I haven't been down the road in a few years in passenger service but my friends tell me it's worse than ever if you don't operate a certain way you will be 10 minutes late every trip on certain lines. The schedule doesn't account for trains being cleaned out say at parsons while you wait at sutphin for 3-7 minutes when you're already late. Wonderful! A switchman giving advice about going down the road that he hasn't been on in years. This is why I asked about that "trusting T/O" thing earlier. The way the schedules are written it is impossible for the railroad to run even close to on-time during the rush hours if operating according to school car instructions, this is why the "legal" documents that dispatchers clock trains on are written in pencil. This is also why MOST superintendents insist that their dispatchers put on time for late trains!! The schedules on alot of lines don't give enough time and the system keeps getting slower with new timers every year. Come over to the IRT, where the TDs have to clock trains accurately, since their sheets must match the ones created by ATS. In its first full year of operation, ATS did some remarkable things in the IRT - the went from 95% on-time to 74% on-time because there was no more "fudging" on the sheets. A side effect of this is that OP is now rewriting the timetable to closer reflect reality (something that should have been done long ago). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelham Bay Dave Posted January 29, 2009 Share #37 Posted January 29, 2009 Let me put my two cents in there when I was a C/R I use to believe if you did everything school car you be late but as a T/O working with some strictly by the book C/R's and me following my speeds signs my train could get to the terminal on time but ofcause trains crossing in front of me messes it up all the time. I remember a Line T/O claimed he was going to make a point that you always be late operating school car so he got to the terminal 25 Minutes late saying operated as per School car so the T/D took him out of service and went for retraining. He keeped talking about school car and the Supt asked him " You mean every day before today you didn't follow the rules"!! He was operating slower then the speed signs and full service every station until indication which is not exactly school car. So you can be on time doing school car its the other stuff that hold you up which as per Bulletin should be called into RCC. Also break the rules especially these days is just trouble why risk getting in trouble for hitting someone with the doors or cought speeding on a rador check? By the way Weclome Alex its been a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex L. Posted January 29, 2009 Share #38 Posted January 29, 2009 By the way Weclome Alex its been a while. Thanks, Dave. Just didn't know about this place until recently. Say Hi to your Dad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fort Hamilton Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share #39 Posted January 30, 2009 You guys are killing me! I dont expect this job to be a cake walk but come on almost every post is something negative. Lets try something new how about posting things that are good about this job if there are any, please you guys are starting to get me nervous lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jah Posted January 30, 2009 Share #40 Posted January 30, 2009 You guys are killing me! I dont expect this job to be a cake walk but come on almost every post is something negative. Lets try something new how about posting things that are good about this job if there are any, please you guys are starting to get me nervous lol. The good thing is you get a pension. That is the main reason most of us take these jobs. You are guaranteed 40 hours of pay a week. It's study work. The benefits are decent but way below the other major unions. Some people will say the pay is good, I'm not one of them. I can't say that the pay is good when we are the LOWEST paid at what we do in the country. Another good thing is you can pick what time of day you want to work, where you want to work, and what days off you want. But this takes many years. In my opinion my first 4 years on this job where the worst years of my life. You have no family time and I have kids that are my top priority. I try to be honest about the job it's very hard working for a company that HATES it's own employees and doesn't even try to hide this fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fort Hamilton Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share #41 Posted January 30, 2009 Finnaly! a positive comment thank you! But as far as the pay goes you have to see it the way i do 26.99 an hour to start and all i had to do was take a test, thats a hell of alot more money than any other o/c test (without having any special skills) . I took this test twice and i remember both times all the people on line with me were talking about was the money and how good it is. But i also remember lots of people saying sarcasticly HOW HARD CAN IT BE TO DRIVE A TRAIN. I wish i new about this site at the time because i have to admit i sort of felt the same way but man has that changed they should give out this web site with the dcas job description just so people can get a reality check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jah Posted January 30, 2009 Share #42 Posted January 30, 2009 Finnaly! a positive comment thank you! But as far as the pay goes you have to see it the way i do 26.99 an hour to start and all i had to do was take a test, thats a hell of alot more money than any other o/c test (without having any special skills) . I took this test twice and i remember both times all the people on line with me were talking about was the money and how good it is. But i also remember lots of people saying sarcasticly HOW HARD CAN IT BE TO DRIVE A TRAIN. I wish i new about this site at the time because i have to admit i sort of felt the same way but man has that changed they should give out this web site with the dcas job description just so people can get a reality check. That's not gonna be your starting pay. Top pay right now is 28.65. You start at school car pay then go to yard pay then after 131 days on the road you go to top pay. I took a pay cut for this job for the pension. Patterson is trying to water down the pension for new hires too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Julio Posted January 30, 2009 Share #43 Posted January 30, 2009 I hate Patterson. Hope he gets hit while crossing the sidewalk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fort Hamilton Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share #44 Posted January 31, 2009 That's not gonna be your starting pay. Top pay right now is 26.85. You start at school car pay then go to yard pay then after 131 days on the road you go to top pay. I took a pay cut for this job for the pension. Patterson is trying to water down the pension for new hires too. I asked the person who swor me it specificlly what the pay would be while in school because i thought it was lower but she told me it was 26.99 and showed me it on my employee info sheet. So of course my next question is how much is schoolcar pay and how much is yard pay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jah Posted January 31, 2009 Share #45 Posted January 31, 2009 I asked the person who swor me it specificlly what the pay would be while in school because i thought it was lower but she told me it was 26.99 and showed me it on my employee info sheet. So of course my next question is how much is schoolcar pay and how much is yard pay? I'm not sure exactly how much school car pay is now. It is usually around 1-2 dollars less than yard pay which is about 1.25 less an hour than top pay. Maybe your number is correct, but it used to a little more of a gap between top pay and school pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex L. Posted January 31, 2009 Share #46 Posted January 31, 2009 I asked the person who swor me it specificlly what the pay would be while in school because i thought it was lower but she told me it was 26.99 and showed me it on my employee info sheet. So of course my next question is how much is schoolcar pay and how much is yard pay? Starting Monday morning at 0800, you'll be paid 26.99/hr (I'm taking your word for that amount) for the entire time you are in School Car, as well as the entire time it takes from your release to the road to the point where you have 231 ROAD days in service. At that point, you will jump to whatever top pay is at that time. School Car pay and Yard pay are the same rate, so will see no difference in your pay rate when you finish training. You will, however, see an increase in the number of hours you work - Extra Extra T/Os average about 50 hrs/wk. Once you are released to the road, you must keep an accurate count of how many days you work a ROAD (as opposed to a YARD) job. Any day where you operate in a train in passenger service or spend your entire day waiting to pick up a job will count as a ROAD job. After 231 ROAD days, you will move up to the top pay rate. It takes most people somewhere between 1.5 and 2 years to reach this point. As Jah said, the first few years will be the years from hell. You will be a number that the Crew Office will send wherever and whenever they need you (within reason - there are some rules they must follow). You should anticipate working for most major holidays for a long time (although you will be off for Easter, Memorial Day and July 4 while in School Car), as well as working all three tours (which School Car will also prep you for B)). The good points of the job: the previously mentioned pension; a job that will be yours for as long as you want it; promotional opportunities; a job that will never be boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fort Hamilton Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share #47 Posted January 31, 2009 Thanks for info jah, Alex L, dob2rto, pelham bay dave, i hope you guys will not find me annoying in the coming months because im sure i will have lots of questions that only people on the job can answer for me i hope i can count on you guys. Id like to think that all the info i have recieved over the past few months makes me a bit more prepared for the months ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbanfortitude Posted February 16, 2009 Share #48 Posted February 16, 2009 Despite some of the negative stuff I read on the job, as far as I'm concerned every job has its high and lows (some with more lows than highs). I'm still excited to take the exam in March and I'm hoping I don't have to wait TOO long but long enough. To the author of this thread, congratulations and if I happen to get on your train, try not to be too happy with the brakes. I could lose my lunch the way some of the drivers brake into the station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnyBrooklyn Posted February 16, 2009 Share #49 Posted February 16, 2009 Good luck with your job, You will make it either good or bad for yourself just use common sense and you will be ok. One thing you should always do is keep a little book with you were you can document everything you do while you are in training. You can go back and study that later on if you get confused about something. It is also good to keep track of the hours you work and stuff. Could come in handy. Once again good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOB2RTO Posted February 16, 2009 Share #50 Posted February 16, 2009 Just like in the DOB, RTO has rules that suppose to be followed. It ends up being the same thing in the end. To be on time you will break the rules, and learn where to do it, and where not to do it. Those rules are in place, just in case if something happens, they can and will hang you (the operator, conductor, driver, etc). It is a catch 22 in moving people with this agency. They want you to be safe and on time, but when you are late all the time following the rules, they will "push" you to break them. That means constant supervision riding your a$$ daily. That means being asked questions daily. You are truly damned if you do, damned if you don't in MTA RTO and the DOB. This is why I always say, Supervisors and Labor Relations will always have a job in MTA, because you will be "pushed" to break the rules by most. They want timely service, but it can't be done according to their schedule. To get the actual times on paper, everyone who moves passengers, must do everything by the book. Most lines would get a 10-15 minute boost per trip. Breaking the rules has gotten times cut, and more trips put in due to rule breaking, and being early. It took me only 2+ years as a B/O, to realize what this agency is truly about. RTO rules are basically the same. As for the supervisors "helping" you out, just listen and remember. You will learn to read between the lines in MTA....... As for pay, I came in with $26.99, and am now at $28.06. That is due to the % raise from the last contract. I got it at the beginning of this year...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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