MTA faces $12B funding gap for major capital projects - New York Post

[realizm]

 

By Rebecca Harshbarger July 25, 2014 | 12:34am

 

The MTA could face a $12 billion gap in funding for improvements and big projects like the Second Avenue subway, says a new comptroller analysis.

Chairman Thomas Prendergast will present the authority’s five-year capital plan in Albany in October. Initial figures project costs of almost $27 billion.

The MTA faces the massive gap based on how much the feds, state and city typically kick in, according to the Thomas DiNapoli report.

If Albany and the feds don’t step up, the authority will have to pass along the costs to riders, borrow money or scale back on improvements — like bringing the LIRR to Grand Central and modernizing a signal system that dates back to the 1930s.

“The MTA has to find a way to finance improvements without putting the financial burden on riders,” said DiNapoli. The authority, which says the long-term investment is key to reliability and storm-protection, vowed to work with officials to find the resources.

Read more: Source
 

[realizm]

Keep in mind that we had a 750 million dollar budget deficit in 2010, leading to the slashing of subway and surface transit service straight across the board. Several MTA personnel were also laid off during the time of the doomsday cuts. This budget deficit talked about by Comptroller DiNapoli is immense in comparison, not a good situation.

 

Forget the fact that we will not see phase 2 built for some time now, because of a definite lack of funding. If Albany does not do something about this, correctly this time, its possible we may see fare hikes worse then what we anticipated. Currently we are scheduled to be slammed with 4% fare hikes in 2015 and 2017. Now it can be worse, possible back up to 7%.

 

This may reflect on the next reports to come from the MTA committee meetings which is to occur on July 28th.

[Tokkemon]

They have to get the system in a state of good repair, that should be priority number one and nothing else matters right now. The SAS phase 2, 3, 4, 5, 18, 39, XO can wait. So can East Side Access for that matter, the most botched major works project I've ever seen in New York history. Updating the signal system and rehabbing the tunnels that need fixing are the most important.

After that, start extending the system into Eastern Queens with Els if you want... 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Wasn't it just last week that the stated that they avoided the prospects of increasing fares on riders by reaching an agreement with the LIRR union reps?  Which is it?

 

 

 

They have to get the system in a state of good repair, that should be priority number one and nothing else matters right now. The SAS phase 2, 3, 4, 5, 18, 39, XO can wait. So can East Side Access for that matter, the most botched major works project I've ever seen in New York history. Updating the signal system and rehabbing the tunnels that need fixing are the most important.

After that, start extending the system into Eastern Queens with Els if you want... 

With El's? Are you crazy?  I think there would be immense opposition to that.  The LIRR and express bus works just fine in Eastern Queens.  Whether or not people want to use it is another story.

[realizm]

The extensions into SE or NE Queens are not possible now because of changes in FRA/FTA regulations post-Plan For Action. NYC Transit now cannot just ask the LIRR to lend them a couple of tracks for a Queens Blvd bypass.

 

No they were never considering constructing elevated lines under the MTA, this is getting mixed up with the IND Second system. The MTA only had intentions to use existing ROWs or build new tunnels for systemwide expansion.

[Minato ku]

Why not borrowing to finance the big new projects?

While borrowing is bad for recurrent expenditure (as we do nowadays), this is an interesting tool to help to fund infrastructure projects needed for the future.

The bill will surely be paid over several generations after us but the future generations will the new infrastructures. (

 

The problem is that we are already very indebted.

PS: I use the "we" for the weastern world as whole, Europe, Northern America.

[Union Tpke]

The extensions into SE or NE Queens are not possible now because of changes in FRA/FTA regulations post-Plan For Action. NYC Transit now cannot just ask the LIRR to lend them a couple of tracks for a Queens Blvd bypass.

What changes? This is too bad. What would it take to happen?

[Tokkemon]

With El's? Are you crazy?  I think there would be immense opposition to that.  The LIRR and express bus works just fine in Eastern Queens.  Whether or not people want to use it is another story.

 

Why? They're efficient, look nice (in this century), and CHEAP!

 

There's huge swaths of Queens and some in Brooklyn without adequate rail transit service. That ought to be corrected.

[East New York]

Some of these projects can possibly be funded by the government, and inevitable fare hikes over the next decade. Upgrades have to be made no matter what, and cutting service will definitely not solve any issues. M9, R179, R188, and R211 trains are coming in or in current planning. More than 2,000 buses are to be delivered over the next few years, and the combined bus command center dispatch/radio/farebox projects for NYCT and MTA Bus are a go. New depots, stations and signal upgrades, and about 20 other infrastructure projects that have to be completed. 

 

Funding for all these projects are needed on some level in the 2015-2019 budget. This is sort of unprecedented in a way for the TA because they haven't had this many projects in the works all at once in a very long time.  

 

The train alone is a big chunk of the budget because of the scale of the project. This is something many people put in the back of their minds because we don't physically see stations opening, and we know it will be a while before they are. However the current budget is more than $4.45 billion. That's more than 1/3 of the figure listed in just this report, and that funding runs out at the end of 2016.

 

So now add up all the projects I listed above, then renew the train funding by 2017........

 

Let's hope the R179 prototype is near flawless, and that project doesn't run over budget. Its coming in just a few months....... This is going to be very interesting....... 

[Kamen Rider]

They considered building an El from Astoria to the airport for the N before that got cut.

 

Also remember, this is the Capitol budget, the 2010 trouble was the operating budget.

[realizm]

What changes? This is too bad. What would it take to happen?

 

Different railcar specifications, and rules, wont allow for it. Rapid transit cars and operations are not FRA regulated such as with the LIRR or MNRR and its railroad cars. Signaling can be changed on two tracks to make it a subway so theoretically it is feasible. But mandates wont allow for this anymore.

[bobtehpanda]

Why? They're efficient, look nice (in this century), and CHEAP!

 

There's huge swaths of Queens and some in Brooklyn without adequate rail transit service. That ought to be corrected.

 

There are very few roads in Eastern Queens wide enough for a El. Of all the major arterials, Northern, Jamaica, Hillside, and Union are actually not wide enough (most roads that are acceptable for els these days are sidewalk, shoulder, three or four lanes in each direction, and a median).

 

The only places I could think of putting an el are the GCP, LIE, and Cross Island, but the parkways are built by the water so there's an access issue, and there's no place to bring an el underground in any of those areas.

 

They considered building an El from Astoria to the airport for the N before that got cut.

 

Also remember, this is the Capitol budget, the 2010 trouble was the operating budget.

 

The el would've required a lot of eminent domain. In addition, an el on the GCP wouldn't get very far, since around the vicinity of 82nd St there's a landing path that requires reduced clearances for a very long distance; the GCP in this area has very short floodlights for this reason.

Different railcar specifications, and rules, wont allow for it. Rapid transit cars and operations are not FRA regulated such as with the LIRR or MNRR and its railroad cars. Signaling can be changed on two tracks to make it a subway so theoretically it is feasible. But mandates wont allow for this anymore.

 

That, and the fact that the railroads are thriving.

 

These days, we'd be more likely to see ROW expansion or a tunnel underneath the ROWs.

[MHV9218]

Wasn't it just last week that the stated that they avoided the prospects of increasing fares on riders by reaching an agreement with the LIRR union reps?  Which is it?

 

Unrelated, is what it is.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Unrelated, is what it is.

Don't see how it isn't... The week before they're fiscally sound and now they're short again... They were yelling that even before the LIRR situation...

[Kamen Rider]

Day to day funding fine, this discussion is not about day to day funding.

[bobtehpanda]

Don't see how it isn't... The week before they're fiscally sound and now they're short again... They were yelling that even before the LIRR situation...

 

There are two separate budgets for capital maintenance and operations. The capital budget has been underfunded for years, and quite frankly it's a miracle the MTA isn't sinking under the weight of all its capital debt.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

There are two separate budgets for capital maintenance and operations. The capital budget has been underfunded for years, and quite frankly it's a miracle the MTA isn't sinking under the weight of all its capital debt.

Yeah well all of this talk about how they didn't need to raise fares and now they may need to.... Accounting 101... 

[Lance]

For some reason, I recall the MTA stating they intended to raise fares almost every year over the course of several years. I could be wrong though...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

For some reason, I recall the MTA stating they intended to raise fares almost every year over the course of several years. I could be wrong though...

They recently stated that the fare increases in 2015 and 2017 wouldn't be as high as they originally estimated, but now they're singing a different tune...

[bobtehpanda]

They recently stated that the fare increases in 2015 and 2017 wouldn't be as high as they originally estimated, but now they're singing a different tune...

 

They're singing a different tune mostly due to the LIRR settlement. The money had to come from somewhere...

 

The problem with accounting at the MTA is that the dedicated taxes used to fund it are extremely cyclical; real estate and sales taxes are a big portion of it, but those can either rise or sink very fast depending on how the economy is doing. Payroll taxes and tolls are subject to the same economic forces, but don't swing nearly as much.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

They're singing a different tune mostly due to the LIRR settlement. The money had to come from somewhere...

 

The problem with accounting at the MTA is that the dedicated taxes used to fund it are extremely cyclical; real estate and sales taxes are a big portion of it, but those can either rise or sink very fast depending on how the economy is doing. Payroll taxes and tolls are subject to the same economic forces, but don't swing nearly as much.

I figured that even though they claimed that wasn't the case...

[Union Tpke]

Different railcar specifications, and rules, wont allow for it. Rapid transit cars and operations are not FRA regulated such as with the LIRR or MNRR and its railroad cars. Signaling can be changed on two tracks to make it a subway so theoretically it is feasible. But mandates wont allow for this anymore.

how would it be a problem if they take away the switches in between lets say the center tracks and turn them to subway use and put in the appropriate signals and safety equipment.

[realizm]

how would it be a problem if they take away the switches in between lets say the center tracks and turn them to subway use and put in the appropriate signals and safety equipment.

 

Well again FRA regulations now, will not allow for it. (In contrast to 1968 when the MTA was considering using the outer tracks of the MNRR Harlem line in the Bronx, and the LIRR for the QBL Bypass and SAS respectively).  And bobtehpanda brought up another good point: Since the commuter railroads are thriving, the MTA will not at this point be able to acquire needed ROW on the railroads to expand subway service. 

[Union Tpke]

Well again FRA regulations now, will not allow for it. (In contrast to 1968 when the MTA was considering using the outer tracks of the MNRR Harlem line in the Bronx, and the LIRR for the QBL Bypass and SAS respectively).  And bobtehpanda brought up another good point: Since the commuter railroads are thriving, the MTA will not at this point be able to acquire needed ROW on the railroads to expand subway service. 

would it be allowed if they use the space on the outside of the ROW, formerly Rego Park tracks without any connection to LIRR.

I hate the FRA!

[realizm]

would it be allowed if they use the space on the outside of the ROW, formerly Rego Park tracks without any connection to LIRR.

I hate the FRA!

 

Technically in that case, yes.