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MAA89

What is the most difficult maneuver a T/O has to perform on the subway?

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I had often thought the (A) trains approach to Rockaway Blvd from the Rockaways must be one of the most difficult maneuvers a T/O would have to master. The track first turns left while dipping slightly, then rises while still turning left as the track approaches the flying junction which connects the Lefferts (A) line, then turns right into the station and aligns next to the platform, with the front cars turning right while the rear cars are still turning left and climbing. It does appear to be a difficult task to negotiate a 600 foot long, 600,000 lbs train to do all this perfectly (I bet if Keron Thomas commandeered a Rockaways (A) train, he would have been found out here). My question is, is this the most difficult maneuver to perform in the entire subway, or are there more challenging spots elsewhere (and what makes them challenging).

 

I would be very glad if the T/Os on this site would respond with their views.

 

P.S.: I do not expect to be given any information that may be of a sensitive nature or pose a security risk. I am only interested in knowing where you think the most difficult maneuver needs to be performed and a brief description of the location.

 

Thanks!!

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The most difficult maneuver has nothing to do with road trains, but rather with work trains. Work trains are, for the most part, an accident waiting to happen because you could be operating the train in areas where the track is detached or where there are heavy tools which can cause serious damage if they come into contact with the train, third rail, the infrastructure, or you.

 

Probably the most dangerous move we have down here is when a work train fully loaded with ballast is negotiating the downgrade end of the Williamsburg or Manhattan Bridge. Release too much trainline brake and you'll never get it back. And yes, that has happened a few times. You wanna talk about panic? Try getting a runaway train under control before you hit a 10 mph switch.

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The most difficult maneuver has nothing to do with road trains, but rather with work trains. Work trains are, for the most part, an accident waiting to happen because you could be operating the train in areas where the track is detached or where there are heavy tools which can cause serious damage if they come into contact with the train, third rail, the infrastructure, or you.

 

Probably the most dangerous move we have down here is when a work train fully loaded with ballast is negotiating the downgrade end of the Williamsburg or Manhattan Bridge. Release too much trainline brake and you'll never get it back. And yes, that has happened a few times. You wanna talk about panic? Try getting a runaway train under control before you hit a 10 mph switch.

 

Do you think that when the SMEE's are retired and some are used as work trains that they will be easier to handle, or better to handle then the former redbirds?

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Do you think that when the SMEE's are retired and some are used as work trains that they will be easier to handle, or better to handle then the former redbirds?

 

I think he is talking about the diesels... not the redbirds

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The most difficult maneuver has nothing to do with road trains, but rather with work trains. Work trains are, for the most part, an accident waiting to happen because you could be operating the train in areas where the track is detached or where there are heavy tools which can cause serious damage if they come into contact with the train, third rail, the infrastructure, or you.

 

Probably the most dangerous move we have down here is when a work train fully loaded with ballast is negotiating the downgrade end of the Williamsburg or Manhattan Bridge. Release too much trainline brake and you'll never get it back. And yes, that has happened a few times. You wanna talk about panic? Try getting a runaway train under control before you hit a 10 mph switch.

 

Thanks. That must be scary to lose your brakes on the downgrade section of a bridge. What happens when you hit a 10 mph switch at a higher speed?

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Thanks. That must be scary to lose your brakes on the downgrade section of a bridge. What happens when you hit a 10 mph switch at a higher speed?

 

Derail!!

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Thanks. That must be scary to lose your brakes on the downgrade section of a bridge. What happens when you hit a 10 mph switch at a higher speed?

 

Derail!!

 

Pretty much sums up the Union Square fiasco...the driver went so fast that only the first car made the switch.

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Unless you hit it much faster you shouldn't derail but you will increase wear on the car as well as the switch itself. It can make for an uncomfortable turn too. The risk of Derailment certainly goes up at higher speeds though as does the risk of getting written up by a TSS with a radar gun. And if you derail and they find out you're going a higher speed...uh oh...

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"What is the most difficult maneuver a T/O has to perform on the subway?"

 

Answer: Getting to work on time. :)

 

Lol....hahahaha....that's the hardest for all jobs....nice one

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Pretty much sums up the Union Square fiasco...the driver went so fast that only the first car made the switch.

I have been trying to look that up online...I wiki it....and thre nothing....do u know whre I can get info about that...........

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I have been trying to look that up online...I wiki it....and thre nothing....do u know whre I can get info about that...........
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/stations?5:3098

 

On August 29, 1991, an accident occured just north of the station, killing five people in one of the worst wrecks since the Malbone St. Disaster of 1918. The train operator, Robert Ray, had been overshooting platforms on the entire run. At 14th Street the train was to be shifted to the local track due to repairs. He had been running the train at 40 MPH in a 10 MPH zone and took the switch so fast that only the front of the first car made the crossover. The third and fourth cars ended up perpendicular to the tracks, having sheared off support columns and split in half. The line suffered heavy damage and service was disrupted for six days as transit workers toiled around the clock to clean up the wreckage. The entire infrastructure, including signals, the switches, track, roadbed, cabling, and 23 support columns needed to be replaced. The motorman Ray was sentenced to 15 years in prison for the worst subway accident since 1928.

 

The wreck occurred between 18th Street and Union Square on the downtown side at the entry to a former pocket track. Union Square and 72nd Street on the IRT West Side line had extra tracks on the approach to the station. These were between the incoming local and express track and were one old IRT train length long. The idea was to have a 'stacking' track where a train could be held momentarily until the platform cleared for it to enter the station. The track here and at 72nd Street were rendered useless when train lengths grew beyond their capacity. When the damage from the 1991 wreck was repaired the crossing was not made more gentle even though the stacking track here was removed.

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What was wrong with Robert Ray? Was he operating under the influence of drugs or alcohol? Did he have a history of reckless behavior? How did the TA not find out sooner if he posed a risk?

He was drunk.

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Yea I read the link...and I also was reading this newyork time thing online about robert ray......they go into detail from the time he got home until the time of the crash the dude miss the staion by 5 car cars (overran) that's crazy.....then he overran on station by 1 car.......and his partner was yelling cut it out and are u ok..........just google union square train crash....and click on the newyorks time.....it shouldbe the first one......it a four pages but it it shows what happen........I would send but I'm stilll trying to fig out how to do dat on the g1...............

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Yea I read the link...and I also was reading this newyork time thing online about robert ray......they go into detail from the time he got home until the time of the crash the dude miss the staion by 5 car cars (overran) that's crazy.....then he overran on station by 1 car.......and his partner was yelling cut it out and are u ok..........just google union square train crash....and click on the newyorks time.....it shouldbe the first one......it a four pages but it it shows what happen........I would send but I'm stilll trying to fig out how to do dat on the g1...............

 

Oh, you're using a phone? No wonder. iPhone's cut and paste is way better. I'll add it for you.

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The most difficult maneuver has nothing to do with road trains, but rather with work trains. Work trains are, for the most part, an accident waiting to happen because you could be operating the train in areas where the track is detached or where there are heavy tools which can cause serious damage if they come into contact with the train, third rail, the infrastructure, or you.

 

Probably the most dangerous move we have down here is when a work train fully loaded with ballast is negotiating the downgrade end of the Williamsburg or Manhattan Bridge. Release too much trainline brake and you'll never get it back. And yes, that has happened a few times. You wanna talk about panic? Try getting a runaway train under control before you hit a 10 mph switch.

 

I say run to the opposite end, jump off, and runaway, from the runaway train. Remember, tuck and roll, tuck and roll. I don't wanna here a work train T/O rolled, but didn't tuck first......

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Try going into emergency(pulled back too much break) in the 60 St. tube Downgrade because you THOUGHT the signals were on time and the "S" doesn't light up...:cry: You can't do NOTHING about it but pray to GOD!!!

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You have to keep your eyes peeled for those illuminates "S"s!

It's easier now that they have installed LED's. Beforte, they were dim, and the same color as the headlights, and didn't look much different from the light reflecting off of the survey plate.

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You have to keep your eyes peeled for those illuminates "S"s!

It's easier now that they have installed LED's. Beforte, they were dim, and the same color as the headlights, and didn't look much different from the light reflecting off of the survey plate.

 

I imagine that this is the reason why they have you ride the system to learn your lines but how do you guys see the non-illuminated metal speed signs? I can barely see them at times or they are hidden by other objects.

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what does the signal "S" mean?

A fixed signal bearing the “S” which when illuminated with a caution indication, indicates

that the Grade Time Signal immediately following is displaying a STOP indication. This signal

may be cleared by a train approaching said “S” signal at a predetermined speed.

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A fixed signal bearing the “S” which when illuminated with a caution indication, indicates

that the Grade Time Signal immediately following is displaying a STOP indication. This signal

may be cleared by a train approaching said “S” signal at a predetermined speed.

 

 

I always wondered what that "S" stood for, I thought it meant to speed up. :(

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Try going into emergency(pulled back too much break) in the 60 St. tube Downgrade because you THOUGHT the signals were on time and the "S" doesn't light up...:cry: You can't do NOTHING about it but pray to GOD!!!

 

 

LOL, And if you 'agree' quick enough, you can start charging the train before it stops..

(A little birdy told me so :()

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