EE Broadway Local Posted August 18, 2009 Share #1 Posted August 18, 2009 Which of these would you like for a new subway line: (I) (O) (P) (U) (X) (Y) (0) (8) (10)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1447 Posted August 18, 2009 Share #2 Posted August 18, 2009 The is already being used for the Rockaway but from the RTOs view And u forgot (11)(12)(13) from the R62/R62A I want MY BACK!!! i miss the Broadway Skip Stop Service +( +(!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted August 18, 2009 Share #3 Posted August 18, 2009 The is already being used for the Rockaway but from the RTOs view And u forgot (11)(12)(13) from the R62/R62A I want MY BACK!!! i miss the Broadway Skip Stop Service +( +(!!! They should have rush hour peak express service in upper Manhattan and the Bronx. Maybe they'll bring the back for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EE Broadway Local Posted August 18, 2009 Author Share #4 Posted August 18, 2009 One thing I think should be done is to restore the officially to the Rockaway Park shuttle. I think the skip-stop service might have worked if the service had started at 96th Street and stations were served equally: 96th Street 103d Street 110th Street 116th Street-Columbia University 125th Street 137th Street-City College 145th Street 157th Street 168th Street 181st Street 191st Street Dyckman Street 207th Street 215th Street 225th Street-Marble Hill 231st Street 238th Street West 242d Street-Van Cortlandt Park Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1447 Posted August 18, 2009 Share #5 Posted August 18, 2009 One thing I think should be done is to restore the officially to the Rockaway Park shuttle. I think the skip-stop service might have worked if the service had started at 96th Street and stations were served equally: 96th Street 103d Street 110th Street 116th Street-Columbia University 125th Street 137th Street-City College 145th Street 157th Street 168th Street 181st Street 191st Street Dyckman Street 207th Street 215th Street 225th Street-Marble Hill 231st Street 238th Street West 242d Street-Van Cortlandt Park Im guessing becuz people of middle class or so living in Upper manhattan South of 137th Demonds trains to stop at each station not skip. But I would of had the Run Express from 96th Street to 155th Street(Or 168th skiping 155) and start Skip Stop Service. Or Skip Stop from 155(or168) to Dyckman and Express to 242nds St. That would be better. Peak Express Rush Hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted August 18, 2009 Share #6 Posted August 18, 2009 I think the skip-stop service might have worked if the service had started at 96th Street and stations were served equally: The reason service and skip stop in general did not work on the West Side line had to do with people wanting to use stops. The skip stop was meant to benefit people living in Marble HIll and Riverdale who had long commutes, who could shave time by skipping west side stops on their way to work in midtown/downtown However what happened was a lot of key destinations and transfer points were skipped, which led people to complain when a came but they had to wait for a , or vice versa, or if their stop was a stop but they had to get out at a stop or vice versa. What ended up happening is the and made most "intermediate" stops and the stops skipped were all north of Dyckman, which is of course, now hurting the people the skip stop service was intended to help. Thus the skip stop was discontinued. You'd get huge complaints from people about these: 110th Street - popular station 116th Street-Columbia University - very popular station 137th Street-City College - very popular station 181st Street - popular station 238th Street - riders won't want to sit here without making the stop waiting for a pocket to clear up at 242, which is a common thing particularly during the rush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAA89 Posted August 18, 2009 Share #7 Posted August 18, 2009 Which of these would you like for a new subway line: (I) (O) (P) (U) (X) (Y) (0) (8) (10)? I favor giving all three full-time shuttles their unique route designation. The 42nd St shuttle should get either the (0) or the (8) to reflect that it was part of the original IRT subway of 1904 (although then a direct connection between the Seventh and Lexington Av lines and not an independent shuttle) and that its cars share a yard with IRT trains. The Rockaway Park shuttle similarly deserves the route designation: it is an important shuttle carrying a million passengers a year, and actually runs 8 car trains on summer weekends, so is a full-fledged line in some respects. It would also make it easier to remember that the IND routes are through plus . The Franklin Avenue shuttle could then be given the as a route symbol and not merely to stand for "Shuttle". I think (U), (X) and (Y) should be left for possible future expansion on the Second Avenue Subway, as these letters follow T (with the exception of and as they are already taken) and so can be easily remembered. I do not wish to see numbered lines on non-IRT trackage. (8) and should only be used if some new train is introduced on the Seventh Avenue, Lexington Avenue or Flushing lines, assuming the (8) wasn't already given to the 42nd St shuttle. I think the should be renamed <J> as that accurately portrays the line as a special service that runs only rush hours and stops only where the doesn't (with few exceptions). The Staten Island Railroad could be renamed the , since it is a single line unlikely to ever see another service (e.g. express and local trains, or skip-stop service), so the last letter can safely be awarded to it. (I) and (O) will probably not be used because of potential for confusion with (0) and . The and the (P) could be left for any future expansion of the subway other than on IRT and Second Avenue lines. I am assuming your question was "which of these route designations should be used for future expansion and how?". The other users' answers seem to be saying which old subway route (e.g. or ) they would like to see return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted August 19, 2009 Share #8 Posted August 19, 2009 (O) and (I) or (0) will not be used, due to ambiguity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EE Broadway Local Posted August 19, 2009 Author Share #9 Posted August 19, 2009 These double letters were not used (not to my knowledge at least). (DD) A DD would've been a Concourse and Sixth Avenue Local. (FF) An FF would've been a Queens Boulevard and Sixth Avenue Local. (MM) An MM would've been a Broadway (Brooklyn) Local (between Myrtle Avenue and Essex Street). (NN) An NN would've been a Broadway and Fourth Avenue (Brooklyn) Local. (QQ) A QQ would've been a Broadway and Brighton Local. And some fun ones: ( A B would've been a Washington Heights and Sixth Avenue Express A G would've been the Brooklyn-Queens Crosstown Express. An H would've been the Rockaway Park Express. A J would've been a Broadway (Brooklyn) Express (between Myrtle Avenue and Essex Street). An L would've been the Fourteenth Street-Canarsie Express. An R would've been a Broadway and Fourth Avenue (Brooklyn) Express. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted August 19, 2009 Share #10 Posted August 19, 2009 These double letters were not used (not to my knowledge at least). (DD) A DD would've been a Concourse and Sixth Avenue Local. (FF) An FF would've been a Queens Boulevard and Sixth Avenue Local. (MM) An MM would've been a Broadway (Brooklyn) Local (between Myrtle Avenue and Essex Street). (NN) An NN would've been a Broadway and Fourth Avenue (Brooklyn) Local. (QQ) A QQ would've been a Broadway and Brighton Local. And some fun ones: A B would've been a Washington Heights and Sixth Avenue Express A G would've been the Brooklyn-Queens Crosstown Express. An H would've been the Rockaway Park Express. A J would've been a Broadway (Brooklyn) Express (between Myrtle Avenue and Essex Street). An L would've been the Fourteenth Street-Canarsie Express. An R would've been a Broadway and Fourth Avenue (Brooklyn) Express. And how will the and the operate express along their trunk lines if no express tracks were ever built? and don't even bring single-track sharing into the picture, that would cause too much problems. The reason service and skip stop in general did not work on the West Side line had to do with people wanting to use stops. The skip stop was meant to benefit people living in Marble HIll and Riverdale who had long commutes, who could shave time by skipping west side stops on their way to work in midtown/downtown However what happened was a lot of key destinations and transfer points were skipped, which led people to complain when a came but they had to wait for a , or vice versa, or if their stop was a stop but they had to get out at a stop or vice versa. What ended up happening is the and made most "intermediate" stops and the stops skipped were all north of Dyckman, which is of course, now hurting the people the skip stop service was intended to help. Thus the skip stop was discontinued. You'd get huge complaints from people about these: 110th Street - popular station 116th Street-Columbia University - very popular station 137th Street-City College - very popular station 181st Street - popular station 238th Street - riders won't want to sit here without making the stop waiting for a pocket to clear up at 242, which is a common thing particularly during the rush If they had initiated express service from the start then it would be less problematic and the would probably not have been shelved. I'm sure there are some riders who wish there was a faster way to get to Midtown from Riverdale during rush hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted August 19, 2009 Share #11 Posted August 19, 2009 If they had initiated express service from the start then it would be less problematic and the would probably not have been shelved. I'm sure there are some riders who wish there was a faster way to get to Midtown from Riverdale during rush hours. Yes but there is a difference between that and skip stop. I don't remember the exact configuration, but Say you're going to applebee's at 225th, which we'll say is a stop. You live on 145th which is a stop. Now you have to transfer. That coupled with trains going by crowded key stops, and delays to service caused by the short headways along the line, were why the service became whittled down to the point it was turned into nothing at all, just local. Ideally it would be a 4 track express/local line but it's not, so the best alternative is making all stops so that people are happy and can get to their destinations with a minimum of transfers and confusion, which although a lot of buffs want to dismiss confusion as a bunch of geese who don't know how to read maps, it does affect service because 10 people asking the conductor variations of the same question slows down service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RokuSix Posted August 20, 2009 Share #12 Posted August 20, 2009 (8) would be good... if the Third Avenue Line ever returned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INDman Posted August 20, 2009 Share #13 Posted August 20, 2009 Last time I checked, (8) is the RTO designation for the 42nd Street Shuttle. Nope, this has been asked before. The Times Square- Grand Central Shuttle is know as just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutgers Tube Posted August 20, 2009 Share #14 Posted August 20, 2009 Nope, this has been asked before. The Times Square- Grand Central Shuttle is know as just that. I was under the impression that RTO referred to the 42nd Street as the 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted August 20, 2009 Share #15 Posted August 20, 2009 Last time I checked, (8) is the RTO designation for the 42nd Street Shuttle. I remembered quite well that a T/O here said that was false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric B Posted August 20, 2009 Share #16 Posted August 20, 2009 I had heard about 8 being used for the shuttle, but I saw on the pick boards (actual job #'s), the suttle is actually GS (just like Franklin is "FS". These double letters were not used (not to my knowledge at least). (DD) A DD would've been a Concourse and Sixth Avenue Local. Actually ran during a floo, but via 8th Av, (while a "C" ran exp. Via 6th) (MM) An MM would've been a Broadway (Brooklyn) Local (between Myrtle Avenue and Essex Street). Really, it would have been the Myrtle-Jay. But by the time the letters were assigned, MM was designated for the 6th Av service, and the Jay St became MJ.(QQ) A QQ would've been a Broadway and Brighton Local. But since the locals would run either via bridge or tunnel, It was split into QB and QT. And some fun ones: A G would've been the Brooklyn-Queens Crosstown Express. Technically, it was the World's fair special, but that used "S" instead.A J would've been a Broadway (Brooklyn) Express (between Myrtle Avenue and Essex Street).And that's basically what it was (Though it was "QJ" when the letters first appeared An R would've been a Broadway and Fourth Avenue (Brooklyn) Express. Technically, the Nassau Special, which earlier on, was express, would have been that. But when letters were first assigned, they used "S" and even "M". Also, I believe "P" would have been Culver Express (via bridge) and "PT" would have been Culver local via tunnel. The line to Ditmas was truncated to a shuttle right before the letters were assigned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EE Broadway Local Posted August 20, 2009 Author Share #17 Posted August 20, 2009 Eric, I've a question: Was used officially in between and ? I've heard was dropped in 1973 but I seem to recall the R1-9s displaying through 1976 (and maybe some R42s into 1973). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric B Posted August 20, 2009 Share #18 Posted August 20, 2009 JJ was used for all Broad St local service in 1967, but then it became QJ at all times the following year. This lasted till '73, when QJ was discontinued, but the QJ signs may have continued to be used, like is there was no JJ on the particular roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted August 21, 2009 Share #19 Posted August 21, 2009 I had heard about 8 being used for the shuttle, but I saw on the pick boards (actual job #'s), the suttle is actually GS (just like Franklin is "FS". Actually ran during a floo, but via 8th Av, (while a "C" ran exp. Via 6th) Really, it would have been the Myrtle-Jay. But by the time the letters were assigned, MM was designated for the 6th Av service, and the Jay St became MJ. But since the locals would run either via bridge or tunnel, It was split into QB and QT. Technically, it was the World's fair special, but that used "S" instead. And that's basically what it was (Though it was "QJ" when the letters first appeared Technically, the Nassau Special, which earlier on, was express, would have been that. But when letters were first assigned, they used "S" and even "M". Also, I believe "P" would have been Culver Express (via bridge) and "PT" would have been Culver local via tunnel. The line to Ditmas was truncated to a shuttle right before the letters were assigned. I've heard that "P" would never be used,except in an emergency, for obvious reasons. The emergency would be an Amtrak strike where LIRR trains would be kept out of Pennsylvania Station. Service would be provided from Sutphin Blvd via the line and the K cut to Penn station along with extra service. How true this was is anybody's guess but it seems feasible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted August 21, 2009 Share #20 Posted August 21, 2009 I've heard that "P" would never be used,except in an emergency, for obvious reasons. The emergency would be an Amtrak strike where LIRR trains would be kept out of Pennsylvania Station. Service would be provided from Sutphin Blvd via the line and the K cut to Penn station along with extra service. How true this was is anybody's guess but it seems feasible. Then why was it skipped in the BMT's 1960 letter assignment? Some people say it alludes to bathroom humor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted August 21, 2009 Share #21 Posted August 21, 2009 Then why was it skipped in the BMT's 1960 letter assignment? Some people say it alludes to bathroom humor. Yup that's the reason now imagine if it ran on the BMT Broadway line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted August 21, 2009 Share #22 Posted August 21, 2009 Yup that's the reason now imagine if it ran on the BMT Broadway line... I can only imagine.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7LineFan Posted August 21, 2009 Share #23 Posted August 21, 2009 Yup that's the reason now imagine if it ran on the BMT Broadway line... I can only imagine.... Take the bullet and chop off the right leg. DO IT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted August 21, 2009 Share #24 Posted August 21, 2009 Take the bullet and chop off the right leg. DO IT! A yellow P, brilliant *Pardon the pun* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7LineFan Posted August 21, 2009 Share #25 Posted August 21, 2009 A yellow P, brilliant *Pardon the pun* I meant, someone actually do it in like Photoshop or something... I wanna physically see it with my own eyes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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