X22 Super Express Proposed

[Forest Glen]

While perusing Subcrap, I saw an interesting thread regarding the soon-to-be eliminated AE7 express bus. Joel Azumah, who was briefly my employer during his attempt to operate the X90, wrote a letter to the Staten Island Advance which proposed that the MTA create a X22 super express to replace the AE7:

 

By JOEL AZUMAH,

BROOKLYN

 

 

The impending demise of Atlantic Express’ AE7 at the end of December presents an opportunity for the Metropolitan Transportation Authority to provide additional service in a cost-effective manner.

 

 

0

Share 0 Comments Due to the fact that few politicians believe in giving the MTA any money to do anything, it took the relocation of Atlantic Express’s AE6 bus to the Outerbridge Park & Ride to get any service there. Thankfully for current AE7 riders, the MTA has the ability to provide service at no additional cost beyond their current operations.

 

The MTA can create a new X22 Super Express to provide service between Tottenville and Manhattan via the Outerbridge Park & Ride. This has the potential to service many of the points on the existing AE7 with buses from the existing X22 service. Most service from Tottenville in the AM peak period would be converted to Super Express runs, providing faster service for Tottenville residents and opening up more seats for the remaining X22 riders. The X22 Super Express could also stop at Exit 7 for Victory Boulevard passengers.

 

The original South Shore bus deal called for two MTA routes. The MTA ran a short turn of the X22 known as the X21, which wasn’t really a second route in any useful sense of the word. Two previous MTA administrations ago, it was suggested that the X21 be sent to the Outerbridge Park & Ride.

 

Now that Atlantic Express has already built a ridership base there, an X22 Super Express can service those customers and the excuse can no longer be made that the demand does not exist. In fact, it might make it easier to label an X22 Super Express as the X21.

 

The X17 Super Express, X22, and X30 can trace their origins back to service previously operated by private bus operators. These services continue to outperform most of the other express bus services on Staten Island. An X22 Super Express would be a smart addition to that list.

 

http://www.silive.com/opinion/letters/index.ssf/2010/11/create_a_new_mta_super_express.html

 

More express buses is always a good idea.

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Q101 E Midtown]

That's not a bad idea. It definitely fills the void.

[Santa Fe via Willow]

That's not a bad idea. It definitely fills the void.

 

This.

[checkmatechamp13]

Here is the current AE7 schedule:

http://www.aetg.net/AE7AMsked-020110.pdf (AM schedule)

http://www.aetg.net/AE7PMsked-020110.pdf (PM schedule)

 

If I were to design it, I would make it so that very few X22s actually make that super-express trip. The AE7 runs 7 trips in the morning and 11 trips in the afternoon (see schedule above), but I think that only 3-4 trips in each direction should be sufficient (there is only a short period of time when the headways of the X22 are short enough so that the Bloomingdale Road/Woodrow Road/Rossville Avenue portion can be served adequately).

 

I would have the buses go straight down Page Avenue from Amboy Road and then go along Boscombe Avenue and onto Route 440 to access the park-and-ride. (with stops at Page Avenue/Richmond Valley Road and Page Avenue/Boscombe Avenue). In the AM rush hour, the buses that run immediately before the super-express buses would begin at Amboy Road/Bedell Street.

 

This would definitely speed up the trips for some X22 riders in Tottenville, and should prevent some commuters from driving all the way up to Huguenot Avenue/Arthur Kill Road (I'm 99% sure there is a park-and-ride there). If done right, it can save the MTA a little bit of money and improve people's commute times.

 

By the way, I think some X22s should stop at Victory Blvd. If no other express route stops there, that neighborhood will lose all direct service to Midtown Manhattan (it is ironic that a couple of miles down, there is a neighborhood with express buses to Midtown Manhattan only)

 

By the way, who built the Pleasant Plains Park-and-Ride? The City of NY or Atlantic Express? It seems like a waste to build an entire parking lot for a rush hour-only service. With a couple of little road extensions, they could've built it right next to the Pleasant Plains SIR station, so it would have a little off-peak use (then again, I'm sure there are other suburban park-and-rides that serve rush hour-only services)

 

That's not a bad idea. It definitely fills the void.

 

It isn't about filling the void-it is about providing faster service. The very fact that its major stop was a park-and-ride with no local buses serving it means that the people who use it have access to cars and can drive to another express route if necessary. The idea is to avoid having them drive too far for air polution purposes, not access purposes.

[B35 via Church]

Yeah, I read Joel's idea or w/e, over on subchat....

His idea in general, is a good one....

 

However, in his plan, he has too much super express service throughout the day.... The bulk of x22 ridership isn't in Tottenville, and although you would obtain an increase of riders @ the park & ride, IMO, it still wouldn't be enough to run as much "x22 super expresses" as he's stating....

 

I'd have 2 AM & 2 PM super express runs at the most, in each direction during the day... that's it... anything more would compromise the x22 in itself... remember, the idea isn't to add service (add runs) on the x22, it's to expand it's span on a few runs... there is a difference.....

[checkmatechamp13]

Agreed. The idea is to speed up the service for commuters in Tottenville (this would save about 5-10 minutes over Bloomingdale Road).

 

Since we're only talking about a small number of buses that could make that super-express trip, I'll list them:

 

The 7:00AM, 7:06AM, and 7:14AM trips from Tottenville would make the super-express trip

The 6:56AM, 7:03AM, and 7:09AM trips from Tottenville would be cut back to Amboy Road/Bedell Street.

 

In the PM rush hour, the 5:12PM, 5:27PM and 5:42PM buses would make the super-express trip.

The 5:05PM, 5:20PM, and 5:35PM trips would be cut back to Amboy Road/Bedell Street.

 

Like you said, there aren't many time slots where you can reroute X22s as super-expresses without affecting service on Bloomingdale Road. Even under my schedule, Bloomingdale Road is left with 15 minute service in the PM rush hour when the super-express is running.

[Santa Fe via Willow]

x22 superexpress would be :cool:

 

Especially with CBA opening.

[checkmatechamp13]

If the X22 Super Express does occur (which I can see as something happening in the near future, as it would actually save them money), I would make the non-super-express buses (that I earlier proposed to start at Amboy Road/Bedell Street) start and finish at the Charleston Depot to serve the Tides development across the street. They would run via Arthur Kill Road and Richmond Valley Road

 

I can't picture a whole lot of people using that service, but I die a little inside every time I see a "Not In Service" bus.

 

Seriously, though, running the bus in service costs them nothing, and the people living in that development should have some of the benefits of living across the street from a bus depot, especially if those benefits cost the MTA nothing to provide.

[Santa Fe via Willow]

If the X22 Super Express does occur (which I can see as something happening in the near future, as it would actually save them money), I would make the non-super-express buses (that I earlier proposed to start at Amboy Road/Bedell Street) start and finish at the Charleston Depot to serve the Tides development across the street. They would run via Arthur Kill Road and Richmond Valley Road

 

I can't picture a whole lot of people using that service, but I die a little inside every time I see a "Not In Service" bus.

 

Seriously, though, running the bus in service costs them nothing, and the people living in that development should have some of the benefits of living across the street from a bus depot, especially if those benefits cost the MTA nothing to provide.

 

That would work. Maybe an x22 superexpress could be called the x21. Well, it would be the nuX21. This x21 2.0's nickname should be the "Cermak Express".

[JAzumah]

Yeah, I read Joel's idea or w/e, over on subchat....

His idea in general, is a good one....

 

However, in his plan, he has too much super express service throughout the day.... The bulk of x22 ridership isn't in Tottenville, and although you would obtain an increase of riders @ the park & ride, IMO, it still wouldn't be enough to run as much "x22 super expresses" as he's stating....

 

I'd have 2 AM & 2 PM super express runs at the most, in each direction during the day... that's it... anything more would compromise the x22 in itself... remember, the idea isn't to add service (add runs) on the x22, it's to expand it's span on a few runs... there is a difference.....

 

When the Forest Avenue Academy disappeared, it was replaced three months later by the X30 with the same amount of runs as Academy. Those buses left people every day for four months before the MTA could press more buses into service. Adding the current AE7 riders plus the Arthur Kill/Veterans riders plus the Tottenville people are going to make the Super Express go bonkers. Those buses are going to be stuffed, particularly if they extend the bus along Hylan Boulevard to where the AE7 now begins.

[JAzumah]

Agreed. The idea is to speed up the service for commuters in Tottenville (this would save about 5-10 minutes over Bloomingdale Road).

 

Since we're only talking about a small number of buses that could make that super-express trip, I'll list them:

 

The 7:00AM, 7:06AM, and 7:14AM trips from Tottenville would make the super-express trip

The 6:56AM, 7:03AM, and 7:09AM trips from Tottenville would be cut back to Amboy Road/Bedell Street.

 

In the PM rush hour, the 5:12PM, 5:27PM and 5:42PM buses would make the super-express trip.

The 5:05PM, 5:20PM, and 5:35PM trips would be cut back to Amboy Road/Bedell Street.

 

Like you said, there aren't many time slots where you can reroute X22s as super-expresses without affecting service on Bloomingdale Road. Even under my schedule, Bloomingdale Road is left with 15 minute service in the PM rush hour when the super-express is running.

 

You have to know where the people are now to create a schedule. Your schedule is too narrow to serve the market. The AE7 is only 5 AM and 7 PM trips and has been since August. The later AM buses and middle PM buses are doing the heavy lifting now.

[JAzumah]

I'm suprised the advance published that,considering how much thier readership seems to hate him.

 

1. Heh. The readership does not hate me, especially after the last round of cuts. Sometimes, things have to happen to show people what is happening. The X16 was 95% of the size of the 144. The 144 carried 360 passengers the day before the illegal S89. The X16 carried 350 passengers when it was cut. It has already been ordained that SI is a zero sum market. When something is added, something must be cut elsewhere.

 

2. Every single editorial that I have sent in the last 3.5 years has been published at the Advance.

[checkmatechamp13]

In order to be a "zero cost" proposition, this service has to use the existing resources. Therefore, there can only be a limited number of X22 super express runs, because, otherwise, you would be taking service away from Bloomingdale Road customers. If the MTA adds service, that would cost money.

[B35 via Church]

In order to be a "zero cost" proposition, this service has to use the existing resources. Therefore, there can only be a limited number of X22 super express runs, because, otherwise, you would be taking service away from Bloomingdale Road customers. If the MTA adds service, that would cost money.

 

*snaps fingers*

 

why'd you have to be so cordial....

anyway, beat me to it bro... good job...

but I'm still gonna post anyway

 

 

If this part of Joel's post would end up being the case...

 

Adding the current AE7 riders plus the Arthur Kill/Veterans riders plus the Tottenville people are going to make the Super Express go bonkers. Those buses are going to be stuffed, particularly if they extend the bus along Hylan Boulevard to where the AE7 now begins.

 

....then this should be a standalone/separate route, not integrated into the x22... for the very reasons you just stated... and right now, that's not what the MTA's looking to do (create new services)....

 

So there can't be too many "super express" x22's, if the goal is to "break even", so to speak....

 

In plain english, those buses are just gonna have to be stuffed...

The knock on NYC's express buses is that, they don't carry near as much % capacity to justify having them on the road as is, anyway....

[checkmatechamp13]

To be honest, I don't even think those buses will more crowded than the current X22. They will still pick up the same number of riders in Tottenville (maybe a few people will reorganize their schedule to catch a super-express bus, but not a significant amount) and some riders at the park-and-ride (not too many, since the people who choose to park at the park-and-ride will also need a super-express bus to take them back in the afternoon, as the regular X22s don't serve the park-and-ride)

 

Actually, the super-express buses might actually be less crowded than the current X22s from Tottenville.

[B35 via Church]

To be honest, I don't even think those buses will more crowded than the current X22. They will still pick up the same number of riders in Tottenville (maybe a few people will reorganize their schedule to catch a super-express bus, but not a significant amount) and some riders at the park-and-ride (not too many, since the people who choose to park at the park-and-ride will also need a super-express bus to take them back in the afternoon, as the regular X22s don't serve the park-and-ride)

 

Actually, the super-express buses might actually be less crowded than the current X22s from Tottenville.

 

Neither do I... that was the main reason that sparked me even replying to the man's comments....

 

I presented my prior post, as if what Joel's stating/claiming, would be true... he has every right believe that those buses would be packed, just as we do in thinking that they wont....

 

From my vantage point, it doesn't add up...

I mean, ridership is dying significantly on the AE6/7 enough for AE to end up lifting the service... but if an x22 "super express" served the same areas, and then some, those buses would be packed?

[JAzumah]

In order to be a "zero cost" proposition, this service has to use the existing resources. Therefore, there can only be a limited number of X22 super express runs, because, otherwise, you would be taking service away from Bloomingdale Road customers. If the MTA adds service, that would cost money.

 

Seats are not going to be a problem on Bloomingdale Road. Seats will be a problem at Veterans Road, but Super Expresses will be stopping there as well as regular X22s. It is not the buses, but the seats that matter. Also, the cost factors in deadheading time to the start point. Each of those X22s that start or end at Amboy & Bedell are saving 20 minutes each, with half of that savings being revenue service time. That savings alone is good for 3 new trips.

[JAzumah]

Neither do I... that was the main reason that sparked me even replying to the man's comments....

 

I presented my prior post, as if what Joel's stating/claiming, would be true... he has every right believe that those buses would be packed, just as we do in thinking that they wont....

 

From my vantage point, it doesn't add up...

I mean, ridership is dying significantly on the AE6/7 enough for AE to end up lifting the service... but if an x22 "super express" served the same areas, and then some, those buses would be packed?

 

The X22 was half the size of the current service when it started. Today's X30 is over four times larger than when it first started. The X17J started with four buses in the morning only. History states that when MTA buses follow or replace private express bus service to Manhattan on SI, ridership goes through the roof.

 

The AE7 was used partially to move buses to and from SI for charter work. The charter business is in freefall, which meant that the AE7 equipment was not working during the day.

[checkmatechamp13]

Seats are not going to be a problem on Bloomingdale Road. Seats will be a problem at Veterans Road, but Super Expresses will be stopping there as well as regular X22s. It is not the buses, but the seats that matter. Also, the cost factors in deadheading time to the start point. Each of those X22s that start or end at Amboy & Bedell are saving 20 minutes each, with half of that savings being revenue service time. That savings alone is good for 3 new trips.

 

I don't think your logic works out.

 

The only time period (under the current schedule) where we can even dream of running the X22 super-express is 6:02AM-7:45AM. Otherwise, that leaves certain sections of the route with very long headways.

 

The 6:02AM bus arrives at 57th Street/3rd Avenue at 7:28AM. If it used the West Shore Expressway, it would arrive about 7 minutes earlier, at 7:21AM. From there, it has at least a 45 minute deadhead back to Staten Island, meaning that, if it is going to make a second trip, it won't be able to start it until about 8:10AM.

 

That would mean that any increased frequencies caused as a result of the super-express wouldn't be able to kick in until 8:10AM.

 

The logic of saved time saved=money saved doesn't quite work because, if you want to add more service, you need more drivers, as the ones that are out on the road won't be able to make it back in time. Those extra drivers can't be used off-peak because there isn't enough demand off-peak to run extra service.

[LRG]

STATEN ISLAND, N.Y. -- South Shore bus riders who suffer with some of the fewest transit options in the city, will take another hit when Atlantic Express pulls its AE7 service on Dec. 31 after 20 years in operation.

 

The cancellation is blamed on dwindling ridership, which has sunk to an estimated 175 passengers a day in each direction, down from a high of 600.

 

The South Shore-to-Manhattan AE7 route initially began out of the Showplace park-and-ride in Travis, but was moved to the Pleasant Plains park-and-ride in 2003.

 

City Councilmen Vincent Ignizio and James Oddo, along with incoming Rep. Michael Grimm sent a letter to MTA Chairman Jay Walder last month urging him to consider providing MTA bus service along the route, developing another route, or assisting another private bus company to take over the service.

 

The AE7 is currently the only bus that serves the park-and-ride lot near the Outerbridge Crossing. Without a replacement service, the $9 million parking lot will be completely unused.

 

“We’re trying to get the MTA to live up to its obligation of providing service to constituents in a multi-million park and ride that the state paid for,” Ignizio said.

“At the bare minimum, we should find a way to run an express bus into that park-and-ride.”

 

Atlantic Express hopes its displaced AE7 riders will move over to the X23 and X24, which the company runs with a city subsidy.

 

About a dozen bus drivers who worked the AE7 route are expected to be absorbed by the X23 and X24.

 

For its part, the MTA has begun stopping its X22 buses at Victory Boulevard and Glen Street where the X19 currently stops, in preparation for the influx of riders.

 

Vincent Todisco of Tottenville, who said he’s been riding the AE7 since day one, said he’s going to wait and see if a reputable private company picks up the route. Otherwise, he could drive to the X23/X24 check point at Arthur Kill Road and Huguenot Avenue, where he said he will have to join the daily fight for a parking spot along a stretch where some cars have been vandalized. “I really don’t want to park my car there,” he said.

 

The other option is to take the X22, which he said makes more local stops before getting on the highway. “That adds 25 minutes to my commute each way,” he said.

 

And while the X22 runs up 34th Street in Manhattan on its way uptown, on the way home, the bus picks passengers up on 42nd Street. Todisco, whose office is on 30th Street, said the long walk isn’t an option with his bad knees, so he’ll have to tack on extra time to take a bus or cab to the bus stop.

 

“It’s going to be a great inconvenience,” he said.

 

He suggested running a modified X22 that woudn’t make as many stops, and offering the “express” express bus at least several times during rush hour for commuters who don’t want to lengthen their rides.

 

The company said refunds will be available for AE7 riders who purchased tickets that aren’t used by the end of the year.

 

http://www.silive.com/southshore/index.ssf/2010/12/its_the_end_of_the_road_for_ae.html

[checkmatechamp13]

There is already a thread about this:

 

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24988&highlight=X22+Super+Express

[LRG]

There is already a thread about this:

 

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24988&highlight=X22+Super+Express

 

This is an update to the news article posted back in November. If anything, merge the two threads together.

[JAzumah]

STATEN ISLAND, N.Y. -- South Shore bus riders who suffer with some of the fewest transit options in the city, will take another hit when Atlantic Express pulls its AE7 service on Dec. 31 after 20 years in operation.

 

The cancellation is blamed on dwindling ridership, which has sunk to an estimated 175 passengers a day in each direction, down from a high of 600.

 

The South Shore-to-Manhattan AE7 route initially began out of the Showplace park-and-ride in Travis, but was moved to the Pleasant Plains park-and-ride in 2003.

 

City Councilmen Vincent Ignizio and James Oddo, along with incoming Rep. Michael Grimm sent a letter to MTA Chairman Jay Walder last month urging him to consider providing MTA bus service along the route, developing another route, or assisting another private bus company to take over the service.

 

The AE7 is currently the only bus that serves the park-and-ride lot near the Outerbridge Crossing. Without a replacement service, the $9 million parking lot will be completely unused.

 

“We’re trying to get the MTA to live up to its obligation of providing service to constituents in a multi-million park and ride that the state paid for,” Ignizio said.

“At the bare minimum, we should find a way to run an express bus into that park-and-ride.”

 

Atlantic Express hopes its displaced AE7 riders will move over to the X23 and X24, which the company runs with a city subsidy.

 

About a dozen bus drivers who worked the AE7 route are expected to be absorbed by the X23 and X24.

 

For its part, the MTA has begun stopping its X22 buses at Victory Boulevard and Glen Street where the X19 currently stops, in preparation for the influx of riders.

 

Vincent Todisco of Tottenville, who said he’s been riding the AE7 since day one, said he’s going to wait and see if a reputable private company picks up the route. Otherwise, he could drive to the X23/X24 check point at Arthur Kill Road and Huguenot Avenue, where he said he will have to join the daily fight for a parking spot along a stretch where some cars have been vandalized. “I really don’t want to park my car there,” he said.

 

The other option is to take the X22, which he said makes more local stops before getting on the highway. “That adds 25 minutes to my commute each way,” he said.

 

And while the X22 runs up 34th Street in Manhattan on its way uptown, on the way home, the bus picks passengers up on 42nd Street. Todisco, whose office is on 30th Street, said the long walk isn’t an option with his bad knees, so he’ll have to tack on extra time to take a bus or cab to the bus stop.

 

“It’s going to be a great inconvenience,” he said.

 

He suggested running a modified X22 that woudn’t make as many stops, and offering the “express” express bus at least several times during rush hour for commuters who don’t want to lengthen their rides.

 

The company said refunds will be available for AE7 riders who purchased tickets that aren’t used by the end of the year.

 

http://www.silive.com/southshore/index.ssf/2010/12/its_the_end_of_the_road_for_ae.html

 

They already know about the X21, which will begin next Monday. We will run it while the MTA figures out what they are going to do. My goal is to have the MTA on the route come April 2011.

[Forest Glen]

I'm not too familiar with the AE7. Will the X21 be a direct replacement or will it have a different route?