The Next NYC Subway

[Roadcruiser1]

Streets, and Avenues in this city is so confusing. Who designed the cities streets, and avenues like this?.

[Fresh Pond]

I think Ralph Avenue might work. It's only a kilometer away from Utica Avenue. Listen if Ralph Avenue, Utica Avenue, and Flatbush Avenue won't work then I can't figure anything out. I am looking at the map right now trying to figure a solution. You can't bash me for trying. No matter what a good planner, architect, or engineer won't give up unless if there are NIMBY's which I don't see.

 

I'm not basing you. The only way I see it is go Robert Moses on them...build a subway and screw what the people say

[Roadcruiser1]

I would love to get masters degree in Architecture, and later on maybe Engineering, but from studying the past including Robert Moses you can't push people around or else they will hate you. You would make a lot of enemies this way. If Robert Moses was still alive I am sure he would still be pushing people like his pawns. The only thing Robert Moses ever did that was good was doing things on time. He would have everything done at that specific time the structure was due. Though he would demolish houses, and ruin entire neighborhoods. One project I admire done by Robert Moses was Jones Beach. He literally turned that sandbar into a place for all New Yorkers. Though I really hated what he did to build his Cross Bronx Expressway. He in the end proves to be a controversial person. One of Robert Moses sayings is "I don't care who is in my way. I just want to get things done". Another one is "Those who can, build. Those who can't criticize", and I think the best quote from him is "To get things done". Though several quotes are extremely controversial they are ''I raise my stein to the builder who can remove ghettos without removing people as I hail the chef who can make omelets without breaking eggs.'', and ''We live in a motorized civilization.''

[Fresh Pond]

Wirelessly posted via (BlackBerry8520/5.0.0.900 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/100)

 

I would love to get masters degree in Architecture, and later on maybe Engineering, but from studying the past including Robert Moses you can't push people around or else they will hate you. You would make a lot of enemies this way. If Robert Moses was still alive I am sure he would still be pushing people like his pawns. The only thing Robert Moses ever did that was good was doing things on time. He would have everything done at that specific time the structure was due. Though he would demolish houses, and ruin entire neighborhoods. One project I admire done by Robert Moses was Jones Beach. He literally turned that sandbar into a place for all New Yorkers. Though I really hated what he did to build his Cross Bronx Expressway. He in the end proves to be a controversial person. One of Robert Moses sayings is "I don't care who is in my way. I just want to get things done". Another one is "Those who can, build. Those who can't criticize", and I think the best quote from him is "To get things done". Though several quotes are extremely controversial they are ''I raise my stein to the builder who can remove ghettos without removing people as I hail the chef who can make omelets without breaking eggs.'', and ''We live in a motorized civilization.''

 

I say apply that same logic to the SAS or any other project and I guarantee ya it'll be done quicker

[Roadcruiser1]

I also guarantee you you would be making the East Side hate your guts. I think the Select Bus Service on Second, and First Avenue is useful however the service should operate on First Avenue when the Second Avenue Subway comes online. Though I think we should create a Select Bus Service system in which they would all connect to form a massive Bus Rapid System.

[2Line1291]

Well you can't please everybody and not everybody is gonna like you for what you do..... that's just life.

[Roadcruiser1]

You are right no matter what, and where you go people are going to object to things. Though we don't want to trigger an entire line of enemies don't you think?. We want to build things without much objections, and to please us, and the people. Or else everyone would hate your guts. Even Franklin Delano Roosevelt was fearful of Robert Moses if you look at Robert Moses in detail. FDR hated his guts however he could do nothing about it even when he was President of the United States.

[2Line1291]

SBS isn't the solution to everything.... SAS was a priority that should've been done over the years and don't slow progress cause of the Upper East Side neighborhood people. There not the only ones who gonna benefit from SAS when it's all said and done.

[Rell]

SBS isn't the solution to everything.... SAS was a priority that should've been done over the years. When SAS is all said and done, all of East Side Manhattan and Lexington Av Line is gonna benifit from this.

 

But then what would become of the M15 SBS?

[2Line1291]

So you seriously think SBS M15 would be the long term solution to handling the crowds on Manhattan's East Side?

[Roadcruiser1]

It can use First Avenue when the Second Avenue Subway comes online. Past history shows us the East Side needs three lines. The Lexington Avenue Line coexisted with the Second, and Third Avenue Elevated. When the time comes it would be the First Avenue BRT, Second Avenue Subway, and the Lexington Avenue Line.

[2Line1291]

M15 already travels on First and Second Aves. Both 2nd and 1st are both one way streets going the opposite direction.

[Rell]

It can use First Avenue when the Second Avenue Subway comes online. Past history shows us the East Side needs three lines. The Lexington Avenue Line coexisted with the Second, and Third Avenue Elevated. When the time comes it would be the First Avenue BRT, Second Avenue Subway, and the Lexington Avenue Line.

 

But, as I believe was mentioned, First/Second Avs are one way streets.

[Roadcruiser1]

I thought First Avenue had 7 lanes. Take out 2 lanes for SBS.

[2Line1291]

Is that safe.... to have one bus lane to go parallel 6 lanes going the opposite direction? Just keep the southbound SBS on 2nd Av and northbound on 1st Av like it is now. So far as the subway goes, after Houston St, SAS could branch off onto Culver (like what roadcruiser said) and onto the Nassau St Line. We talked about Utica Av and 2nd Ave, but we forgot about Queens Blvd overcrowding issues.

[7LineFan]

I thought First Avenue had 7 lanes. Take out 2 lanes for SBS.

 

You think it's that simple...

 

The only way I see this could (and I repeat could) work is if you place the uptown lane on the right and the downtown lane on the left.

 

However, by making those dedicated bus lanes (and let's face it, you have to do it for at least the downtown bus), you take away at the very least pick-up and drop-off access to every building on both sides of the street. And let's not consider if there's parking there either. You could put the SBS lanes in the second and sixth lanes to keep the parking there, but then:

 

You're taking away not one, but two lanes from a very busy thoroughfare. There is a reason all the avenues are one way for most of their lengths.

 

Bus lines and subway lines can, in fact, coexist on a single thoroughfare. Look at the Q32 or the Q60. One runs under a subway line for much of its length. The other runs over one for much of its length. Yet we don't see them being relocated because of this fact.

 

And Second Avenue is only *gasp* one block away from First Avenue! Maybe a little long for one city block, but surely a little exercise won't hurt anyone, right?

[East New York]

But then what would become of the M15 SBS?

 

I thought First Avenue had 7 lanes. Take out 2 lanes for SBS.

 

M15 SBS is here to stay, with maybe a few station changes when SAS comes on line.

[Roadcruiser1]

I just worry a lot about the density on the East Side. Sure it won't hurt anyone, but if we had dedicated lanes on a wide avenue we would be able to solve problems, but I do agree with East New York. The Second Avenue Subway station spacing is spread out at a distance of 10 blocks the distance between express stations to speed up service without having to provide local service. The M15 SBS would be able to do the local stops. The Second Avenue Subway would do express stops. It would work like a four track subway line. The only thing is the M15 would do is avoid the stops the would make except at the 125th Street, and the Hanover Square stations to bring service to the areas that won't get help from the SAS.

[7LineFan]

The only thing is the M15 would do is avoid the stops the would make except at the 125th Street, and the Hanover Square stations to bring service to the areas that won't get help from the SAS.

 

I don't see this happening.

[Fresh Pond]

I also guarantee you you would be making the East Side hate your guts. I think the Select Bus Service on Second, and First Avenue is useful however the service should operate on First Avenue when the Second Avenue Subway comes online. Though I think we should create a Select Bus Service system in which they would all connect to form a massive Bus Rapid System.

 

You're right about making people hate you but at the same time it will be done faster. As for the other part of your post, southbound SBS can't operate on 1 Av for the somple fact that 1 Av is one way northbound. Traffic is too heavy on that street to cut half the lanes and make it a 2-way street

[Trainmaster5]

You are right no matter what, and where you go people are going to object to things. Though we don't want to trigger an entire line of enemies don't you think?. We want to build things without much objections, and to please us, and the people. Or else everyone would hate your guts. Even Franklin Delano Roosevelt was fearful of Robert Moses if you look at Robert Moses in detail. FDR hated his guts however he could do nothing about it even when he was President of the United States.

 

You are entirely wrong about FDR fearing Robert Moses. It was the mayors of NYC and the governors of NYS who gave him the powers he had to be point man for federal money coming into NY. FDR controlled that money, not Moses.If FDR desired it NYC and NYS wouldn't have gotten one dime of federal money. The fact of the matter is Nelson and David Rockefeller told Moses to get lost. Nelson as Governor of New York State and especially David, as head of Chase Manhattan Bank. I've always posted on these forums that he who controls the money wins. Chase, as the biggest bondholder, and the Rockefellers ,kicked Mr. Moses to the curb when his ego got too big.

[R68 Subway Car]

As someone who lives in East Flatbush, I am the biggest proponent of a Subway along Utica. Utica has awful traffic and building a light rail line would only make this worse. The only alternative to a subway is +SBS+.

[Roadcruiser1]

I believe the SBS/BRT option is the only answer too. Though to make up for subway capacity we should use double articulate buses which can carry a maximum of 480 people standing, and seated. That is about half a subway train so it should provide a massive amount of relief on Utica, and Nostrand Avenue.

 

Oh yeah here is a map of proposed, and existing BRT/SBS for NYC.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

I believe the SBS/BRT option is the only answer too. Though to make up for subway capacity we should use double articulate buses which can carry a maximum of 480 people standing, and seated. That is about half a subway train so it should provide a massive amount of relief on Utica, and Nostrand Avenue.

 

 

Double-articulated buses are roughly 80 to 85 feet in length. That's not even a quarter of a subway train's length. And there's the risk that the buses could fishtail while running in mixed traffic. I realize subway construction isn't cheap, but given that the B46 is the busiest bus route in the city, the MTA is really going to have to give serious consideration to building a subway under Utica Ave.

[Roadcruiser1]

How about a regular articulate or a light rail. The M15 uses articulates. I think it would work, but double articulates have the capacity of carrying more passengers. The regular articulates, and the regular buses carry less passengers then the double articulates. I want to create something that would provide a lot of relief. I know double articulates aren't as long as a subway train. I am talking about passenger capacity. It carries roughly the same amount of passengers as a 3 car subway train.