CTK246 Posted February 25, 2011 Share #151 Posted February 25, 2011 Things change in 70 years. It's called progress. The question that has to be answered is, how dense was the neighborhood around Utica in 1939? If the el came before the people, fine. But the people before the el? That's where you run into nimbyism. Plus an El south of Brooklyn College would eliminate the need for the B41. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted February 25, 2011 Share #152 Posted February 25, 2011 Actually around that time of 1939 Utica, and Nostrand Avenue still had farms, and a mediocre development of housing from what I read up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7LineFan Posted February 25, 2011 Share #153 Posted February 25, 2011 Actually around that time of 1939 Utica, and Nostrand Avenue still had farms, and a mediocre development of housing from what I read up. There you go. That's why it was more feasible to build an elevated train structure back then. Look at the structure on Roosevelt. Same story. Try building an el there now, in an established community, and see the complaints pop up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted February 25, 2011 Share #154 Posted February 25, 2011 I am going to still see if they would like the idea of one. Or would they like the idea of having to wait for a subway line for the next 60 years. I am sure they might pick the El if you prove the point, and tell them how it's more beneficial then a subway line. When there is a will there is a way. In fact I believe the city would approve of El's if you can prove that it would be helpful. You could demonstrate successful El's, and new El's, and El's under construction, and if you win you prove a giant point, and will get the city on a building movement. I think in the future the Y generation including me would approve of mass transit since we already see the deepening oil crisis, the problems with automobiles, and that we should improve on green technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimer Posted February 25, 2011 Share #155 Posted February 25, 2011 I always thought there was a perfect spot for an el in an area that was a parking lot between Flatbush and Nostrand south of Avenue H by where it goes over those freight links (Triboro RX anyone lol). However, the angle of the lot would send the el down Flatbush towards Kings Plaza, into less of a NIMBY area (established commerical on Flatbush) then down Nostrand, which is pure middle class residential all the way down from there. Of course there's a big building there now with a popular Target and an Applebees that was put up a few years ago. In fact the Applebees was exactly where I envisioned the portal being to bring the tracks up high enough so there's not a low clearance when they turned onto Flatbush. The shallow construction of that terminal helps too, I think it is the shallowest underground terminal in the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokkemon Posted February 25, 2011 Share #156 Posted February 25, 2011 Can I just say that for the record, when Els are done right, they can be amazingly good to look at. Just look at Vancouver! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7LineFan Posted February 25, 2011 Share #157 Posted February 25, 2011 I am going to still see if they would like the idea of one. Or would they like the idea of having to wait for a subway line for the next 60 years. I am sure they might pick the El if you prove the point, and tell them how it's more beneficial then a subway line. When there is a will there is a way. In fact I believe the city would approve of El's if you can prove that it would be helpful. You could demonstrate successful El's, and new El's, and El's under construction, and if you win you prove a giant point, and will get the city on a building movement. I think in the future the Y generation including me would approve of mass transit since we already see the deepening oil crisis, the problems with automobiles, and that we should improve on green technology. An El is not gonna work Why? Utica Av is not strong enough to support it (like ENY said) So despite this you're still going to push it? Els are noisy. There was a bus route in the Bronx that was sent down a different street after the service cuts, and people on that different street complained to no end about it. Mind you, this was about a bus route. Trains are noisier and more frequent. At least with a subway they would be out of sight and out of hearing range. I like how you're thinking, but I believe there's a very slim chance that this city will build any more elevated lines. And even if they do, I seriously doubt there would be a giant elevated building movement anytime in the near future. Can I just say that for the record, when Els are done right, they can be amazingly good to look at. Just look at Vancouver! Valid point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted February 25, 2011 Share #158 Posted February 25, 2011 An El on Utica Avenue would only work if it was built of light materials. Heavy materials like concrete won't work, but a light stainless steel El would, and you can use the steel that looks something like the steel used on the Gateway Arch at St. Louis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainfan22 Posted February 25, 2011 Share #159 Posted February 25, 2011 Plus an El south of Brooklyn College would eliminate the need for the B41. Better make all the stations ADA, as if you do not you'd still have to keep the B41, for elderly and wheelchair customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted February 25, 2011 Share #160 Posted February 25, 2011 Plus an El south of Brooklyn College would eliminate the need for the B41. If you are proposing the Nostrand line to run down Flatbush Av south of Av H to Kings Plaza, then it would probably eliminate the need for the Q35 to go there. But you still need the B41 since I doubt you'd have a stop at every Avenues. [ie: ~AV J*, KH, ~Av P*, Utica, KP] *probably won't be built since the other stations are a bigger priority and if they need to get under budget. As an alternative to an el on FB, what about if they were to have a tunnel? The current FB-Nostrand station probably can't be changed, but what if they were to have the line split just north of the station and curve underneath the station and go down Flatbush? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted February 25, 2011 Share #161 Posted February 25, 2011 I though of making the stops on the El at the same location as the stations on the Brighton Line. The list of stations would be South of Brooklyn College-Flatbush Avenue -Avenue J -Avenue M -Kings Highway -Avenue U -Sheepshead Bay (Terminal). All stations are ADA accessible with Elevators. The El would be designed to be attractive. The pillars would be similar to Greek columns along with a concrete base for each column. The El structure would have Greek, and Roman artwork. Almost similar to a Roman or Greek Aqueduct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NX Express Posted February 25, 2011 Share #162 Posted February 25, 2011 Why? The streets are too narrow above Empire Bl/ENY Av (like I said for the millionth time), plus it will just add to the problem (which defeats the whole purpose of it) Judging by Google Maps, it's wide enough until at least Eastern Parkway, which can support an SBS route from Utica to Nostrand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NX Express Posted February 25, 2011 Share #163 Posted February 25, 2011 I though of making the stops on the El at the same location as the stations on the Brighton Line. The list of stations would be South of Brooklyn College-Flatbush Avenue -Avenue J -Avenue M -Kings Highway -Avenue U -Neck Road -Sheepshead Bay (Terminal). All stations are ADA accessible with Elevators. The El would be designed to be attractive. The pillars would be similar to Greek columns along with a concrete base for each column. The El structure would have Greek, and Roman artwork. Almost similar to a Roman or Greek Aqueduct. Did you even Google Map that? Av U and Neck Road intersect at Nostrand. Unless you're going to Kings Plaza, which isn't Sheepshead anymore IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted February 25, 2011 Share #164 Posted February 25, 2011 I didn't which I should have had lol. I am inaccurately using the NYC Subway map which I should not. Then the station there would be called Avenue U. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted February 25, 2011 Share #165 Posted February 25, 2011 This is the other one. Utica Avenue Elevated served by the , and a rush hour stations. -Lefferts Avenue-East New York Avenue -Linden Boulevard -Avenue D -Flatland Avenue -Avenue U-Kings Plaza (Terminal). The Nostrand Avenue Elevated would threaten 3 businesses. The Utica Avenue Elevated would threaten 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted February 25, 2011 Share #166 Posted February 25, 2011 Judging by Google Maps, it's wide enough until at least Eastern Parkway, which can support an SBS route from Utica to Nostrand. The map is wrong if that's what it shows. Utica Avenue narrows approx. 2 blocks south of Eastern Parkway, at President St or at Crown St IIRC. From that point northward Utica Ave is very narrow until it ends at Fulton St. The intersection at Eastern Parkway is probably the most congested in Brooklyn, because of it's physical characteristics, along with the bridge connectors in Downtown Brooklyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted February 25, 2011 Share #167 Posted February 25, 2011 Any Utica Avenue Elevated or Utica Avenue Subway would have to be 2 tracked also due to the width of Utica Avenue, but it seems like the Utica Avenue Elevated is my first option. Please read the locations I placed the stations on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NX Express Posted February 25, 2011 Share #168 Posted February 25, 2011 The map is wrong if that's what it shows. Utica Avenue narrows approx. 2 blocks south of Eastern Parkway, at President St or at Crown St IIRC. From that point northward Utica Ave is very narrow until it ends at Fulton St. The intersection at Eastern Parkway is probably the most congested in Brooklyn, because of it's physical characteristics, along with the bridge connectors in Downtown Brooklyn. I don't know about the congested part, but Utica is two lanes in each direction south of Eastern Parkway. Google Map (please do not quote it): [GMAPS]<iframe width="425" height="350" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=embed&hl=en&geocode=&q=utica+av+%26+eastern+parkway,+brooklyn,+ny&aq=&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=40.001301,56.513672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Eastern+Pkwy+%26+Utica+Ave,+Brooklyn,+Kings,+New+York+11213&ll=40.668809,-73.93114&spn=0.009375,0.013797&z=14&layer=c&cbll=40.668669,-73.931142&panoid=noEJLiz7TWEHpwNU9AlSdg&cbp=12,201.61,,0,5.98&output=svembed"></iframe><br /><small><a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=embed&hl=en&geocode=&q=utica+av+%26+eastern+parkway,+brooklyn,+ny&aq=&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=40.001301,56.513672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Eastern+Pkwy+%26+Utica+Ave,+Brooklyn,+Kings,+New+York+11213&ll=40.668809,-73.93114&spn=0.009375,0.013797&z=14&layer=c&cbll=40.668669,-73.931142&panoid=noEJLiz7TWEHpwNU9AlSdg&cbp=12,201.61,,0,5.98" style="color:#0000FF;text-align:left">View Larger Map</a></small>[/GMAPS] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 25, 2011 Share #169 Posted February 25, 2011 Why not just post a link to it?? B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted February 25, 2011 Share #170 Posted February 25, 2011 I think a Utica Avenue, and a Nostrand Avenue Elevated designed beautifully would be beneficial as a whole, and that people should give El's a second chance. Oh yeah I also edited the Nostrand Avenue Elevated stations from the page before to correct, and tweaked it a bit. Also the Utica Avenue Elevated stations are all ADA accessible with elevators also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Law Posted February 26, 2011 Share #171 Posted February 26, 2011 I think the Marine park NIMBY's would get upset that an elevated structure is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted February 26, 2011 Share #172 Posted February 26, 2011 I don't know about the congested part, but Utica is two lanes in each direction south of Eastern Parkway. Google Map (please do not quote it): [GMAPS]<iframe width="425" height="350" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=embed&hl=en&geocode=&q=utica+av+%26+eastern+parkway,+brooklyn,+ny&aq=&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=40.001301,56.513672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Eastern+Pkwy+%26+Utica+Ave,+Brooklyn,+Kings,+New+York+11213&ll=40.668809,-73.93114&spn=0.009375,0.013797&z=14&layer=c&cbll=40.668669,-73.931142&panoid=noEJLiz7TWEHpwNU9AlSdg&cbp=12,201.61,,0,5.98&output=svembed"></iframe><br /><small><a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=embed&hl=en&geocode=&q=utica+av+%26+eastern+parkway,+brooklyn,+ny&aq=&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=40.001301,56.513672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Eastern+Pkwy+%26+Utica+Ave,+Brooklyn,+Kings,+New+York+11213&ll=40.668809,-73.93114&spn=0.009375,0.013797&z=14&layer=c&cbll=40.668669,-73.931142&panoid=noEJLiz7TWEHpwNU9AlSdg&cbp=12,201.61,,0,5.98" style="color:#0000FF;text-align:left">View Larger Map</a></small>[/GMAPS] The view as posted is looking s/b from the intersection at Eastern Parkway. Travel 3 blocks south of this picture and the street is considerably wider at that point. A lane for parking on both sides AND 2 lanes of traffic in both directions. I've walked or rode the B46 bus from this intersection to Winthrop St or Clarkson Ave for Winthrop JHS or PS 268 many years ago. Utica Avenue was also the terminal for the line when I started my career and MY terminal when I retired. Maybe some Crown Heights-East Flatbush-Brownsville posters can confirm this for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted February 26, 2011 Share #173 Posted February 26, 2011 I said we would make it beautiful. Not a big ugly scar/eyesore. Something that rich people would appreciate the Elevated would have the look of a Roman Aqueduct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted February 26, 2011 Share #174 Posted February 26, 2011 Wirelessly posted via (BlackBerry8520/5.0.0.900 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/100) The view as posted is looking s/b from the intersection at Eastern Parkway. Travel 3 blocks south of this picture and the street is considerably wider at that point. A lane for parking on both sides AND 2 lanes of traffic in both directions. I've walked or rode the B46 bus from this intersection to Winthrop St or Clarkson Ave for Winthrop JHS or PS 268 many years ago. Utica Avenue was also the terminal for the line when I started my career and MY terminal when I retired. Maybe some Crown Heights-East Flatbush-Brownsville posters can confirm this for me. North of about President St, it becomes 1 traveling lane each direction and 1 parking lane each direction for a total of 4 lanes. It follows this pattern to Fulton St, then follows it again on Malcolm X. Blvd all the way until it ends at Broadway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted February 26, 2011 Share #175 Posted February 26, 2011 Wirelessly posted via (BlackBerry8520/5.0.0.900 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/100) North of about President St, it becomes 1 traveling lane each direction and 1 parking lane each direction for a total of 4 lanes. It follows this pattern to Fulton St, then follows it again on Malcolm X. Blvd all the way until it ends at Broadway Thanks for your help. That's what I was trying to convey to the poster with the Google map. Now, if I could explain the distance between Utica and Flatbush avenues at this location compared to the Kings Plaza area to the "el builder" out there. The best I could come up with is that it's 5 stops away on the between Utica Ave and Grand Army Plaza (Flatbush Avenue) stations. From some of his posts it appears he thinks the streets parallel each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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