Loss of local bus service to Union Square

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I don't know if anyone has realized this, but all local bus service that used to serve Union Square going Southbound has been lost. :mad: The M1 used to go there and then it was re-routed to go via 5th Avenue. The the M7 was re-routed to go to 6th Avenue & 14th st, and finally the M6 was axed.

 

Now I understand that the plazas had something to do with some of the changes, but I find it unacceptable to not have one local bus going by Union Square. In fact sometimes I protest and take the express bus from my office and get off at Union Square this way I don't have to schlepp from 5th & 14th over to Union Square. It especially sucks on hot humid days dodging the crowds along 14th and such. Some may argue that the re-routes have improved reliability or congestion, but I think some sort of restoration to that area Southbound should be made. Thoughts?

[qjtransitmaster]

:cool:

I don't know if anyone has realized this, but all local bus service that used to serve Union Square going Southbound has been lost. :mad: The M1 used to go there and then it was re-routed to go via 5th Avenue. The the M7 was re-routed to go to 6th Avenue & 14th st, and finally the M6 was axed.

 

Now I understand that the plazas had something to do with some of the changes, but I find it unacceptable to not have one local bus going by Union Square. In fact sometimes I protest and take the express bus from my office and get off at Union Square this way I don't have to schlepp from 5th & 14th over to Union Square. It especially sucks on hot humid days dodging the crowds along 14th and such. Some may argue that the re-routes have improved reliability or congestion, but I think some sort of restoration to that area Southbound should be made. Thoughts?

 

there is something called the subway very few ppl will complain however I do understand that the changes were wrong o well must be a traffic issue or they just could care less. Most ppl I spoke with in lower manhattan could care less about bus service in manhattan other than crosstowns. I have no opinion on this one so ur on ur own man

[Via Garibaldi 8]

:cool:

 

there is something called the subway very few ppl will complain however I do understand that the changes were wrong o well must be a traffic issue or they just could care less. Most ppl I spoke with in lower manhattan could care less about bus service in manhattan other than crosstowns. I have no opinion on this one so ur on ur own man

 

Quite frankly if I time things right I can get to Union Square quicker than the train or as quick. I have the bus across the street from my office while the subway is a good 10 minute walk, then of course the waiting for the train and the travel from Grand Central to Union Square.

 

I would think some people were annoyed. The sort of did it quietly, but I find it to be an annoyance, especially when I'm not in the mood for schlepping up and down subway stairs. I can imagine it must suck for the disabled folks or the elderly or anyone who doesn't want to use the subway.

[qjtransitmaster]

Quite frankly if I time things right I can get to Union Square quicker than the train or as quick. I have the bus across the street from my office while the subway is a good 10 minute walk, then of course the waiting for the train and the travel from Grand Central to Union Square.

 

I would think some people were annoyed. The sort of did it quietly, but I find it to be an annoyance, especially when I'm not in the mood for schlepping up and down subway stairs. I can imagine it must suck for the disabled folks or the elderly or anyone who doesn't want to use the subway.

 

true but there are so few of those that you wont hear much backlash at all. As most travellers in Manhattan already use subway over bus. The thing why crosstowns and others command such high ridership is cause the subway doesnt do what those buses do. And the ones that duplicate do so on such major corridors where it just doesnt matter!!!! The 101-103 have unique segments to them so they dont completely duplicate at all. So with union square being smack dab linked to so many subway lines and digital displays very few ppl will even care about the service cut. Those who dont want to use subway are a huge minority in NYC hence why MTA can reduce bus services where subway service is prevelant so quietly and with little opposition. I guess its life. Its not like an entire county is getting cut off completely like NJT tried to do with morris and ending up enhancing it at the end. sorry for off topic but you realize even though I live in NYC I use buses in other places way more than I do in NYC due to the subway. So my earlier posts were based on other ideas as I have none for NYC.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

true but there are so few of those that you wont hear much backlash at all. As most travellers in Manhattan already use subway over bus. The thing why crosstowns and others command such high ridership is cause the subway doesnt do what those buses do. And the ones that duplicate do so on such major corridors where it just doesnt matter!!!! The 101-103 have unique segments to them so they dont completely duplicate at all. So with union square being smack dab linked to so many subway lines and digital displays very few ppl will even care about the service cut. Those who dont want to use subway are a huge minority in NYC hence why MTA can reduce bus services where subway service is prevelant so quietly and with little opposition. I guess its life. Its not like an entire county is getting cut off completely like NJT tried to do with morris and ending up enhancing it at the end. sorry for off topic but you realize even though I live in NYC I use buses in other places way more than I do in NYC due to the subway. So my earlier posts were based on other ideas as I have none for NYC.

 

 

There is certainly some truth to your post. I mean there are so many alternatives that some folks probably didn't b*tch too much. However, your idea that people are so wild over the subway in NYC isn't all that true. The buses in the city carry a big portion of people and I'm not just talking about crosstown buses either.

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[qjtransitmaster]

There is certainly some truth to your post. I mean there are so many alternatives that some folks probably didn't b*tch too much. However, your idea that people are so wild over the subway in NYC isn't all that true. The buses in the city carry a big portion of people and I'm not just talking about crosstown buses either.

 

I also mentioned that many buses that arent crosstown with HIGH ridership dont entirely duplicate the subway. They duplicate up to a point but the corridor is so major that the bus will still do very well

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Union Square is one block from the M1, M2, M3, and M5, two blocks from the M101, M102, and M103, and two blocks from the M7 -- it's not a big walk and I think people can survive. I know I do. And if there are those so inclined, it's a free transfer to the M14.

 

However, I do disagree with the M1 5th Avenue reroute and the elimination of M3 University service. Park Ave really could use bus service, and the M3 cut just means you've got even more duplication from Astor to 14th, which is a shame.

 

I agree, but on the other hand having the M1 and M3 run together helps both lines move quicker. That's perhaps the only advantage that I've seen, but on the flip side it does suck not having any Park Ave service. The M1 should also run during the weekends as others have mentioned.

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Cait Sith]

I don't know if anyone has realized this, but all local bus service that used to serve Union Square going Southbound has been lost. :mad: The M1 used to go there and then it was re-routed to go via 5th Avenue. The the M7 was re-routed to go to 6th Avenue & 14th st, and finally the M6 was axed.

 

Now I understand that the plazas had something to do with some of the changes, but I find it unacceptable to not have one local bus going by Union Square. In fact sometimes I protest and take the express bus from my office and get off at Union Square this way I don't have to schlepp from 5th & 14th over to Union Square. It especially sucks on hot humid days dodging the crowds along 14th and such. Some may argue that the re-routes have improved reliability or congestion, but I think some sort of restoration to that area Southbound should be made. Thoughts?

 

One of the main reasons several express buses now use Park Avenue is at the expense of the loss of the M1. Also with the increase of M14A/D service, the M7 routing had to be changed because it would back up that line alone.

 

You do have nearby local buses like the M102/103 with the LTD 101 and the 5th Avenue routes that is only a short walk to Union Square.

 

I'm often in that area and there's way too much congestion to even add bus service to there.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

They do move quicker but I still don't understand why the routes have to be literally identical below what, 110th? Strikes me as a waste but I don't mind the extra service! It'll be interesting when MCH depot reopens, and we'll see if they send the M1 back there considering it's nothing like the huge route it used to be.

 

It's not a waste of service though. You have to remember that the Park Ave folks now have to come over to 5th & Madison Avenues for service, so the service is warranted. Also if traffic gets f*cked up along 5th especially, having the M1 can be great. I actually got one today by my office there on 45th & 5th and rode it to 14th and then hopped on the M14 one stop to Whole Foods. I oormally get off and wait for the M2 or M5, but the bus was empty enough that I knew we'd make good time and we did. I just wish I could get a bus like that everyday when I walk out of my office building.

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yeah, but I think having two Limiteds and two Locals is a bit much. The M5 / M2 work perfectly, and the M3 / M4 work perfectly, but I don't think the M1 is needed on 5th Avenue.

 

I disagree. The M2 runs fine along Madison, but not along 5th Avenue. The M5s along 5th Avenue are especially horrendous. They run in twos often times and the M2 can take forever to come. Meanwhile 3 back to back Q32s and or M4s will come. :mad: You would think with the amount of traffic that the limiteds would come first, but the locals show up far more frequently. Quite frankly I think the M2s and M5s should run more frequently.

[Cait Sith]

I disagree. The M2 runs fine along Madison, but not along 5th Avenue. The M5s along 5th Avenue are especially horrendous. They run in twos often times and the M2 can take forever to come. Meanwhile 3 back to back Q32s and or M4s will come. :mad: You would think with the amount of traffic that the limiteds would come first, but the locals show up far more frequently. Quite frankly I think the M2s and M5s should run more frequently.

 

The headways on the M2, however, are more frequent over the M5.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The headways on the M2, however, are more frequent over the M5.

 

This is true.

[FamousNYLover]

Often some folks along Museum Miles ask how they could go to Times Sq/PABT and even that's short block walk, too.

[qjtransitmaster]

One of the main reasons several express buses now use Park Avenue is at the expense of the loss of the M1. Also with the increase of M14A/D service, the M7 routing had to be changed because it would back up that line alone.

 

You do have nearby local buses like the M102/103 with the LTD 101 and the 5th Avenue routes that is only a short walk to Union Square.

 

I'm often in that area and there's way too much congestion to even add bus service to there.

 

he has a point here unless there is some form of right of way to guarantee the bus not slowing down then there is no point in having buses at union square heck walking is faster here:cool: However expresses on park what purpose does that serve??

[Cait Sith]

he has a point here unless there is some form of right of way to guarantee the bus not slowing down then there is no point in having buses at union square heck walking is faster here:cool: However expresses on park what purpose does that serve??

 

Serving the passengers on Park Avenue instead of having to bee line to Broadway & 14th, obviously....

[checkmatechamp13]

Yeah, but I think having two Limiteds and two Locals is a bit much. The M5 / M2 work perfectly, and the M3 / M4 work perfectly, but I don't think the M1 is needed on 5th Avenue.

 

The reason why it was moved to 5th/Madison Avenue was to save money. The reasoning is simple: When the bus was on Park Avenue, the people along Park Avenue expected a reasonably frequent bus. However, once they moved it off of Park Avenue, there were no longer any Park Avenue customers who would want the frequent service, so it gave them an excuse to reduce the frequency.

 

I think VG8 is right about this: The M1 made more sense along Park Avenue, preventing riders from having to walk 2 crosstown blocks from the 5th Avenue and giving riders access to Union Square.

 

he has a point here unless there is some form of right of way to guarantee the bus not slowing down then there is no point in having buses at union square heck walking is faster here:cool: However expresses on park what purpose does that serve??

 

Because Broadway was closed between 23rd Street and 14th Street, the express buses would have to take 23rd Street to Park Avenue, and then go through Union Square to continue down Broadway. However, the MTA felt that all of the buses turning from 23rd Street onto Park Avenue would cause congestion among the buses (the same problem would've existed at Broadway/23rd Street).

 

The MTA ended up splitting them so that some buses came from 23rd Street onto Park Avenue, and some came directly from Park Avenue.

 

They attempted to keep buses serving the same areas on the same corridors, but some riders still got screwed. For example, riders in Northwestern Staten Island no longer have the option of the X10/X12/X42: They have to choose between the X10 and the X12/X42. Riders along Port Richmond Avenue no longer have the option of the X10/X14: They have to choose between the two routes.

 

The MTA probably figured that those passengers were in the minority, so it wouldn't make a big difference, but some people were still negatively impacted.

 

Serving the passengers on Park Avenue instead of having to bee line to Broadway & 14th, obviously....

 

See the post above. You also have to consider that by moving the buses onto Park Avenue, they took them away from 5th Avenue, so passengers at the 5th Avenue/27th Street and Broadway/23rd Street stops were inconvenienced.

[qjtransitmaster]

The reason why it was moved to 5th/Madison Avenue was to save money. The reasoning is simple: When the bus was on Park Avenue, the people along Park Avenue expected a reasonably frequent bus. However, once they moved it off of Park Avenue, there were no longer any Park Avenue customers who would want the frequent service, so it gave them an excuse to reduce the frequency.

 

I think VG8 is right about this: The M1 made more sense along Park Avenue, preventing riders from having to walk 2 crosstown blocks from the 5th Avenue and giving riders access to Union Square.

 

 

 

Because Broadway was closed between 23rd Street and 14th Street, the express buses would have to take 23rd Street to Park Avenue, and then go through Union Square to continue down Broadway. However, the MTA felt that all of the buses turning from 23rd Street onto Park Avenue would cause congestion among the buses (the same problem would've existed at Broadway/23rd Street).

 

The MTA ended up splitting them so that some buses came from 23rd Street onto Park Avenue, and some came directly from Park Avenue.

 

They attempted to keep buses serving the same areas on the same corridors, but some riders still got screwed. For example, riders in Northwestern Staten Island no longer have the option of the X10/X12/X42: They have to choose between the X10 and the X12/X42. Riders along Port Richmond Avenue no longer have the option of the X10/X14: They have to choose between the two routes.

 

The MTA probably figured that those passengers were in the minority, so it wouldn't make a big difference, but some people were still negatively impacted.

 

 

 

See the post above. You also have to consider that by moving the buses onto Park Avenue, they took them away from 5th Avenue, so passengers at the 5th Avenue/27th Street and Broadway/23rd Street stops were inconvenienced.

 

dude 5th ave has enough buses those should stop being lazy and walk!!!

[FamousNYLover]

I think west side crosstown blocks are much longer than east side.

[LRG]

I was pissed off when the M6 was cut. Back in January 2009 I wanted to get from Union Square to the Apple Store in SoHo without taking the train and that was relatively easy to do. Now that they cut the route and have the M5 going to South Ferry, getting to Lower Manhattan from Union Square sucks, and not everyone can take the train because of the steps and the Lexington Avenue platforms don't have ADA.

 

The M5 should have been rerouted to operate along 14th Street and then along Broadway south of 14th in lieu of the M6.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I was pissed off when the M6 was cut. Back in January 2009 I wanted to get from Union Square to the Apple Store in SoHo without taking the train and that was relatively easy to do. Now that they cut the route and have the M5 going to South Ferry, getting to Lower Manhattan from Union Square sucks, and not everyone can take the train because of the steps and the Lexington Avenue platforms don't have ADA.

 

The M5 should have been rerouted to operate along 14th Street and then along Broadway south of 14th in lieu of the M6.

 

Yeah, I used to see a lot of folks get off and on at Union Sq. The thing is there are too many buses stopping there on Broadway and 13th. I'm not sure if you can organize it better, but then again, it's good that way because you can get all of the Staten Island buses there that stop Downtown.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Because Broadway was closed between 23rd Street and 14th Street, the express buses would have to take 23rd Street to Park Avenue, and then go through Union Square to continue down Broadway. However, the MTA felt that all of the buses turning from 23rd Street onto Park Avenue would cause congestion among the buses (the same problem would've existed at Broadway/23rd Street).

 

The MTA ended up splitting them so that some buses came from 23rd Street onto Park Avenue, and some came directly from Park Avenue.

 

They attempted to keep buses serving the same areas on the same corridors, but some riders still got screwed. For example, riders in Northwestern Staten Island no longer have the option of the X10/X12/X42: They have to choose between the X10 and the X12/X42. Riders along Port Richmond Avenue no longer have the option of the X10/X14: They have to choose between the two routes.

 

The MTA probably figured that those passengers were in the minority, so it wouldn't make a big difference, but some people were still negatively impacted.

 

 

 

See the post above. You also have to consider that by moving the buses onto Park Avenue, they took them away from 5th Avenue, so passengers at the 5th Avenue/27th Street and Broadway/23rd Street stops were inconvenienced.

 

 

Well the detour actually makes sense because as Cait said congestion is really bad around Union Sq. so having buses like the X10 and X17 rerouted down Park and other frequent express buses like the X1s continue down 5th helps move all of the buses along better, especially since there are no M1s running down Park any more.

 

However, I think the most frustrating thing is that some express bus drivers still don't know where to turn at, even though this new detour has been in place for sometime now. If anything it would be most confusing for them because some of them will just blow by 32nd street (esp. the X10 drivers) and continue down 5th Avenue to 23rd st, thus missing 32nd st, 27th st, which picks up quite a few people. The same thing happens with the X1. Some drivers don't realize that the turn is supposed to be made on 49th st and then onto 5th and then down 5th, so as an express bus rider, I sometimes just eliminate either bothering to go to certain stops for fear that I'll miss the bus. I think about a month or so ago, an X10 blew right by 32nd st and folks must've flagged him or something because he stopped, but of course he then bypassed the 27th & Park Ave stop because he still didn't make any turns to come along Park, despite realizing that he was not supposed to be along 5th Ave at that point. This is yet another reason I can't wait for bus tracking. Now imagine that being the last bus for the night and the B/O makes a mistake like that. You are basically screwed. And yes it's a honest mistake, but still a costly one because depending on the time of night, you're either going to have to another 30 minutes for the next bus or be stranded if that is the last bus. I've been at 21st & Park and have waited a good hour for a bus and it is not a nice feeling to say the least. :mad: In that case though the B/O was just extremely late but still, you can wait that long and then be forced to stand the entirely way. A double slap in the face for $5.50.

[Cait Sith]

I was pissed off when the M6 was cut. Back in January 2009 I wanted to get from Union Square to the Apple Store in SoHo without taking the train and that was relatively easy to do. Now that they cut the route and have the M5 going to South Ferry, getting to Lower Manhattan from Union Square sucks, and not everyone can take the train because of the steps and the Lexington Avenue platforms don't have ADA.

 

The M5 should have been rerouted to operate along 14th Street and then along Broadway south of 14th in lieu of the M6.

 

With the way 14th Street is now, that would only back up the M5 and creating even more bunching problems considering the route already has problems going to South Ferry.

 

Well the detour actually makes sense because as Cait said congestion is really bad around Union Sq. so having buses like the X10 and X17 rerouted down Park and other frequent express buses like the X1s continue down 5th helps move all of the buses along better, especially since there are no M1s running down Park any more.

 

However, I think the most frustrating thing is that some express bus drivers still don't know where to turn at, even though this new detour has been in place for sometime now. If anything it would be most confusing for them because some of them will just blow by 32nd street (esp. the X10 drivers) and continue down 5th Avenue to 23rd st, thus missing 32nd st, 27th st, which picks up quite a few people.

 

The same thing happens with the X1. Some drivers don't realize that the turn is supposed to be made on 49th st and then onto 5th and then down 5th, so as an express bus rider, I sometimes just eliminate either bothering to go to certain stops for fear that I'll miss the bus. I think about a month or so ago, an X10 blew right by 32nd st and folks must've flagged him or something because he stopped, but of course he then bypassed the 27th & Park Ave stop because he still didn't make any turns to come along Park, despite realizing that he was not supposed to be along 5th Ave at that point. This is yet another reason I can't wait for bus tracking.

 

Now imagine that being the last bus for the night and the B/O makes a mistake like that. You are basically screwed. And yes it's a honest mistake, but still a costly one because depending on the time of night, you're either going to have to another 30 minutes for the next bus or be stranded if that is the last bus. I've been at 21st & Park and have waited a good hour for a bus and it is not a nice feeling to say the least. :mad: I that case though the B/O was just extremely late but still, you can wait that long and then be forced to stand the entirely way. A double slap in the face for $5.50.

 

-separated because that was a crapload to read-

 

That is very true, some exp bus operators dont know where to turn when they embark over to Park Avenue. While for the x17s and the 42s I believe, the primary turn is at 32nd Street. But I seen some of those ops (a very small amount of them) turn at 34th or even way past 32nd. Though in all honesty, the turn SHOULD'VE been at 34th instead of 32nd.