Today is the first anniversary of the devastating bus cuts

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Christ it was a typo, relax.

 

 

Sure it was... That's why you keep insisting on standees on express buses and talking about 60 footers and how you can have more folks stand on it right? That should not be the norm. If service is f*cked up okay, but to have people standing on a commuter bus for hours is ridiculous. I've had to stand on Greyhound buses when I was back in college coming from up by Montréal back to NYC and let me tell you I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Via Garibaldi 8]

What are you even talking about? Clearly you're not reading anything I'm saying, as I haven't advocated for that at all. I'm really getting sick of your misinformed comments, as it's obvious now you're not reading a word I say.

 

I'm not misinformed about anything... I'm quoting you below:

 

@Gorgor: Getting a seat is not a profitable thing, that implies the MTA can't fill the bus. Comfortable, yes, but the reason the subway gives us all of our revenue is its sheer capacity and usage -- something that couldn't be said for the x90.

 

So why are you talking about getting a seat is not profitable when express buses aren't really supposed to have standees? And don't give me that nonsense about you're talking about the subway, because you were clearly comparing the subway with the express bus. By your definition even if seating capacity was increased on express buses, you are indirectly saying that the express buses would still be a waste and thus the only way for them to be profitable in your mind is for them to be crushloaded, meaning having standees.

 

Oh and this BS about using express buses for local bus service... Maybe you haven't seen the RTSs that had suburban seating that were used on the local lines... Those seats were destroyed and more monies had to be put out to replace them with regular seats that are used for the local bus.

 

Express buses should NOT be used for local bus service. There is no need for it, not to mention that those buses would eat up miles like nothing, meaning that they would have to be replaced more often, so I don't know where you're getting this idea that there would be so much savings from. Using your "genius" logic then, why don't we have the LIRR and MetroNorth trains use the same trains that are used on the subway???? You continue to dodge my questions when I make comparisons to the LIRR/MetroNorth and the subway and harper on comparing the local bus vs the express bus. Both services are perfect examples to compare as one is an express commuter service and the other service local riders.

[checkmatechamp13]

The S93 has independent data from the S53 due to the bus routes having different northern terminals and don't share the same travel path. The S93 ranked 178 out of the entire local bus network, whereas the S53 ranked 90.

 

I was referring to the service reductions booklet, not the list of bus routes by ridership.

 

One of the things that you're overlooking is that the loading guidelines for express buses vs local buses is completely different. In some situations, by law, the is NOT supposed to have standees on express buses. For example, when going between state lines, lines like the X17J, X22, X30 and X31 are by law NOT supposed to have any standees. Aside from that with the long commutes the does not want express bus riders standing ideally because the MCIs are not made for folks to be standing in the aisles. It slows down the bus significantly in terms of boarding and exiting and folks can get seriously hurt on those buses as I have personally witnessed, which means a fat lawsuit for the .

 

Finally as Jazumah noted, you are also overlooking the added expense of using longer buses for the in terms of having to build new depots or expand the current depots to hold all of these longer buses, which would offset any savings made by using the long buses.

 

That's one of the things that irks me about folks when they complain about the express bus is that they come to conclusions without knowing the full situation as to the guidelines for them and so forth.

 

Back 2-3 years ago, it was common for riders on the X17J to be standing by the last few stops. Now, I think ridership has gone down a bit, so it is very rare to find standees.

 

The MTA's guidelines are to have no more than a seated load, but those are simply guidelines.

 

And the reason why it slows down boarding is because the aisles are so narrow. A suburban bus would have wider aisles to allow people to board/alight faster. Also, the MTA is most likely going to have to expand the depots anyway to accomodate more buses if the demand increases, so it might as well get some savings from it.

 

Ahem.....

 

But thats another story for another day....

 

He didn't say he damaged the train, though. It sounded like he kicked as the door was closing and his foot prevented it from closing.

 

I'm not misinformed about anything... I'm quoting you below:

 

 

 

So why are you talking about getting a seat is not profitable when express buses aren't really supposed to have standees? And don't give me that nonsense about you're talking about the subway, because you were clearly comparing the subway with the express bus. By your definition even if seating capacity was increased on express buses, you are indirectly saying that the express buses would still be a waste and thus the only way for them to be profitable in your mind is for them to be crushloaded, meaning having standees.

 

Oh and this BS about using express buses for local bus service... Maybe you haven't seen the RTSs that had suburban seating that were used on the local lines... Those seats were destroyed and more monies had to be put out to replace them with regular seats that are used for the local bus.

 

Express buses should NOT be used for local bus service. There is no need for it, not to mention that those buses would eat up miles like nothing, meaning that they would have to be replaced more often, so I don't know where you're getting this idea that there would be so much savings from. Using your "genius" logic then, why don't we have the LIRR and MetroNorth trains use the same trains that are used on the subway???? You continue to dodge my questions when I make comparisons to the LIRR/MetroNorth and the subway and harper on comparing the local bus vs the express bus. Both services are perfect examples to compare as one is an express commuter service and the other service local riders.

 

Bold #1: Having standees (at least in my opinion) does not mean that the bus is crushloaded.

 

Bold #2: He's not saying to use express buses for local service. He's saying (or at least I think he's saying) to have local buses with suburban seating used for express buses and express buses only.

 

Bold #3: Yes, why don't we? There are a lot of LIRR/MNRR trains that have standees and subway-type trains would allow them to stand more comfortably.

 

In Miami, they have cushioned seats on the MetroRail, and they are still able to accomodate a lot of standees. They could do the same for the commuter rail lines.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Back 2-3 years ago, it was common for riders on the X17J to be standing by the last few stops. Now, I think ridership has gone down a bit, so it is very rare to find standees.

 

The MTA's guidelines are to have no more than a seated load, but those are simply guidelines.

 

Those aren't guidelines esp. not for the X17J because it crosses state lines. Express buses that are crossing into NJ legally should NOT have standees, simple as that. Technically they are breaking the law allowing those express buses to have standees going into NJ. The other express buses however are a different story. Nonetheless, as I stated before, those buses are not for standees and the knows this. Ridership hasn't necessarily decreased so much on the X17, but rather that the has increased the number of buses to deal with the overcrowding and more importantly to cover their @sses. Having standees like that is a dangerous situation for them which as I said before could lead to someone being injured, meaning lawsuits which would be far more costly than the additional buses added.

[checkmatechamp13]

Those aren't guidelines esp. not for the X17J because it crosses state lines. Express buses that are crossing into NJ legally should NOT have standees, simple as that. Technically they are breaking the law allowing those express bus to have standees going into NJ. The other express buses however are a different story. Nonetheless, as I stated before, those buses are not for standees and the knows this. Ridership hasn't necessarily decreased so much on the X17, but rather that the has increased the number of buses to deal with the overcrowding and more importantly to cover their @sses. Having standees like that is a dangerous situation for them which as I said before could lead to someone being injured, meaning lawsuits which would be far more costly than the additional buses added.

 

I thought the schedule was a bit more frequent 2-3 years ago. I don't think they added service to prevent a lawsuit.

 

And where is that law that says that buses crossing state lines shouldn't have standees? (On a side note, it would explain the excess service on the S89)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Bold #1: Having standees (at least in my opinion) does not mean that the bus is crushloaded.

 

Really? Well then tell me how people are supposed to get off of an express bus if it is SRO only???

 

Bold #2: He's not saying to use express buses for local service. He's saying (or at least I think he's saying) to have local buses with suburban seating used for express buses and express buses only.

 

Uh, that's exactly what he is saying. I'm quoting him: "How about 40-footers (maybe even suburban 40-footers) on express routes? Works for me. Holds only about 15 fewer seated, and it could easily be put back into normal service and hold 70." The normal service he is referring to is LOCAL BUS SERVICE.

 

Bold #3: Yes, why don't we? There are a lot of LIRR/MNRR trains that have standees and subway-type trains would allow them to stand more comfortably.

 

 

Yes and why don't we discuss why no one ever harps on the LIRR/or MNRR and their cost and expense?? MVH won't ever do that because he won't admit that he is an express bus hater. If he's going to sit here and b*tch about waste in the system, then spread it around. To hear him talk it is only the express bus that has waste and nothing else. The LIRR and MNRR are heavily subsidized just like the express bus, perhaps even more and they also have trains that aren't always crowded. I asked him to pull up numbers on how much it costs per MNRR and LIRR rider and he has yet to do so, but he is quick to pull express bus numbers though.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I thought the schedule was a bit more frequent 2-3 years ago. I don't think they added service to prevent a lawsuit.

 

And where is that law that says that buses crossing state lines shouldn't have standees? (On a side note, it would explain the excess service on the S89)

 

IMO from my own observations, I think sometimes they add X17s on the route unofficially during the rush depending on the loads and they've also done better with the spacing. I don't see the X17s running in packs the way they used to and I don't think ridership has dropped that drastically, but rather that they've streamlined service better.

 

As for the standees and the legality of it, I have heard this on several occasions and have read it a few places as well some years back. If I come aross information, I'll send it to you. I also notice that the X30s always make sure that no folks were standing. This is one thing that politicians like Vito Fossella kept on the about because folks on the South Shore in particular were constantly writing to him about the need for more bus service due to the overcrowding. He consistently cited passengers being forced to wait for long periods of time for express buses to show and then being forced to stand for what may be an hour to a two hour ride home and cited the urgency to alleviate the problem because it was dangerous to have passengers standing in those narrow aisles, in addition to them paying a premium fare and not being able to even get a seat after having to wait while several SRO buses pass them by. There is really nothing to hold on to and from my own experience, I actually came close to losing my grip once on an X10 and could've easily went flying through the window of the bus or seriously hurting myself.

 

Those express buses constantly stop short at high speeds and with the aisles being so narrow and there being a limited amount of things to hold onto, it is very easy for someone to be injured. As I stated in other posts I have seen folks jerked and injured on express buses to the point to where they were thrown to the floor. In sum, coach buses are not for standees but are rather made for folks to be seated while the bus is in motion.

 

An older lady forced us to put an X10 out of service because she was standing preparing to get off at her stop and the bus stopped short along Richmond Ave and she lost her grip and went flying on the floor and hurt her arm in an awkward way. She refused to the leave the bus and demanded that she be allowed to fill out a report.

 

That is why I refuse to ride any express bus if I have to stand and have not done so in many years.

 

Oh and it is a federal law which restricts how many standees can be on a bus across state lines, but I don't know what that number is. I've just assumed that it meant no standees at all, but I'm not sure.

[checkmatechamp13]

Really? Well then tell me how people are supposed to get off of an express bus if it is SRO only???

 

Bold #2: "He's not saying to use express buses for local service. He's saying (or at least I think he's saying) to have local buses with suburban seating used for express buses and express buses only."

 

Uh, that's exactly what he is saying. I'm quoting him: "How about 40-footers (maybe even suburban 40-footers) on express routes? Works for me. Holds only about 15 fewer seated, and it could easily be put back into normal service and hold 70." The normal service he is referring to is LOCAL BUS SERVICE.

 

Yes and why don't we discuss why no one ever harps on the LIRR/or MNRR and their cost and expense?? MVH won't ever do that because he won't admit that he is an express bus hater. If he's going to sit here and b*tch about waste in the system, then spread it around. To hear him talk it is only the express bus that has waste and nothing else. The LIRR and MNRR are heavily subsidized just like the express bus, perhaps even more and they also have trains that aren't always crowded. I asked him to pull up numbers on how much it costs per MNRR and LIRR rider and he has yet to do so, but he is quick to pull express bus numbers though.

 

1) If the suburban buses were used, it would be as easy as getting off a local bus (though I wouldn't allow them to become as crushloaded as the local buses).

 

2) Alright then. But from my point of view, I would use them, but only on express buses.

 

3) To be fair, express bus numbers are a lot easier to find than LIRR/MNRR numbers, but I do agree that there is probably a lot of waste there as well (like the time you were the only one in the train. They could've just bustituted the line until Hicksville if they weren't expecting many riders)

 

In my opinion, the biggest waste is having the conductors. Maybe with the SmartCards, they can have turnstiles at the stations and cut down on fare collection costs.

 

IMO from my own observations, I think sometimes they add X17s on the route unofficially during the rush depending on the loads and they've also done better with the spacing. I don't see the X17s running in packs the way they used to and I don't think ridership has dropped that drastically, but rather that they've streamlined service better.

 

As for the standees and the legality of it, I have heard this on several occasions and have read it a few places as well some years back. If I come aross information, I'll send it to you. I also notice that the X30s always make sure that no folks were standing. This is one thing that politicians like Vito Fossella kept on the about because folks on the South Shore in particular were constantly writing to him about the need for more bus service due to the overcrowding. He consistently sighted passengers being forced to wait for long periods of time for an express buses to show and then being forced to stand for what may be an hour to a two hour ride home and cited the urgency to alleviate the problem because it was dangerous to have passengers standing in those narrow aisles, in addition to them paying a premium fare and not being able to even get a seat after having to wait while several SRO buses pass them by. There is really nothing to hold on to and from my own experience, I actually came close to losing my grip once on an X10 and could've easily went flying through the window of the bus or seriously hurting myself.

 

Those express buses constantly stop short at high speeds and with the aisles being so narrow and there being a limited amount of things to hold onto, it is very easy for someone to be injured. As I stated in other posts I have seen folks jerked and injured on express buses to the point to where they were thrown to the floor. In sum, coach buses are not for standees but are rather made for folks to be seated while the bus is in motion.

 

An older lady forced us to put an X10 out of service because she was standing preparing to get off at her stop and the bus stopped short along Richmond Ave and she lost her grip and went flying on the floor and hurt her arm in an awkward way. She refused to the leave the bus and demanded that she be allowed to fill out a report.

 

That is why I refuse to ride any express bus if I have to stand and have not done so in many years.

 

Oh and it is a federal law which restricts how many standees can be on a bus across state lines, but I don't know what that number is. I've just assumed that it meant no standees at all, but I'm not sure.

 

 

Last year and in the beginning of this year, it would be common to see 2-3 X17Js come at a time. In the second half of the year, it looks like they are spacing them out a little bit more, but I still think service has decreased a bit on the line.

 

But as far as standees go, that would be the advantage of suburban buses: They accomodate standees easier and there are more places to hold onto (personally, I just hold onto the seat, but I can see others having a problem).

 

By the way, for the Richmond Avenue incident, how many passengers remained on the bus, and what did they do? Did they wait for a local bus for the final part of the trip, or did another X10 accomodate them, or did they have to stay to act as witnesses?

 

I don't see the logic in having a special rule regarding standees for buses crossing state lines. Somehow, do the buses become more dangerous as they cross state lines?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

3) To be fair, express bus numbers are a lot easier to find than LIRR/MNRR numbers, but I do agree that there is a lot of waste there as well.

 

And that certainly explains why folks constantly harper on express buses being so expensive and wasteful. Those numbers should be made more easily available, as should the cost per passenger for fast ferry service, which I should note is also heavily subsidized by NYC taxpayer dollars and the service generally loses a ton. It is very hard for it to run on a profit, but guys like MVH harper solely on the express bus as if these other services are having no affect on his beloved local bus service.

[qjtransitmaster]

And that certainly explains why folks constantly harper on express buses being so expensive and wasteful. Those numbers should be made more easily available, as should the cost per passenger for fast ferry service, which I should note is also heavily subsidized by NYC taxpayer dollars and the service generally loses a ton. It is very hard for it to run on a profit, but guys like MVH harper solely on the express bus as if these other services are having no affect on his beloved local bus service.

 

express buses link activity centers and connect well with local buses if anything it may spill over ridership onto nearby local rtes

[checkmatechamp13]

And that certainly explains why folks constantly harper on express buses being so expensive and wasteful. Those numbers should be made more easily available, as should the cost per passenger for fast ferry service, which I should note is also heavily subsidized by NYC taxpayer dollars and the service generally loses a ton. It is very hard for it to run on a profit, but guys like MVH harper solely on the express bus as if these other services are having no affect on his beloved local bus service.

 

They should do that. I wonder if there is any website that lists the cost per passenger. I remember hearing that the SI Ferry cost $5.32 per passenger to operate (in which case, I wonder if it would be cheaper to run buses from St. George to Lower Manhattan)

 

express buses link activity centers and connect well with local buses if anything it may spill over ridership onto nearby local rtes

 

I doubt it. Most express buses replace a bus->subway commute, so if those riders are on the express bus, chances are that they would've had to take that local route anyway.

[qjtransitmaster]

They should do that. I wonder if there is any website that lists the cost per passenger. I remember hearing that the SI Ferry cost $5.32 per passenger to operate (in which case, I wonder if it would be cheaper to run buses from St. George to Lower Manhattan)

 

 

 

I doubt it. Most express buses replace a bus->subway commute, so if those riders are on the express bus, chances are that they would've had to take that local route anyway.

actually they replace impractical bus subway commutes that are just too long.

[Gorgor]

actually they replace impractical bus subway commutes that are just too long.

 

Sounds like the perfect description of the X90 right there.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

They should do that. I wonder if there is any website that lists the cost per passenger. I remember hearing that the SI Ferry cost $5.32 per passenger to operate (in which case, I wonder if it would be cheaper to run buses from St. George to Lower Manhattan).

 

I wasn't referring to the SI Ferry service, but okay. I was referring to other fast ferry services here in the city that are heavily subsidized. The Ferry is one of them, but the fast ferry services often operate at very heavy losses in comparison to say the SI Ferry and the taxpayers are paying for that as well, so my point is if MVH has such issues with services that aren't either the subway or the local bus here in New York City, then spread your outrage around and stop harping on one service because it's really ridiculous. Like I said, he won't do that because he just wants to harp on express bus service.

[JAzumah]

1) If the suburban buses were used, it would be as easy as getting off a local bus (though I wouldn't allow them to become as crushloaded as the local buses).

 

2) Alright then. But from my point of view, I would use them, but only on express buses.

 

3) To be fair, express bus numbers are a lot easier to find than LIRR/MNRR numbers, but I do agree that there is probably a lot of waste there as well (like the time you were the only one in the train. They could've just bustituted the line until Hicksville if they weren't expecting many riders)

 

In my opinion, the biggest waste is having the conductors. Maybe with the SmartCards, they can have turnstiles at the stations and cut down on fare collection costs.

 

 

 

Last year and in the beginning of this year, it would be common to see 2-3 X17Js come at a time. In the second half of the year, it looks like they are spacing them out a little bit more, but I still think service has decreased a bit on the line.

 

But as far as standees go, that would be the advantage of suburban buses: They accomodate standees easier and there are more places to hold onto (personally, I just hold onto the seat, but I can see others having a problem).

 

By the way, for the Richmond Avenue incident, how many passengers remained on the bus, and what did they do? Did they wait for a local bus for the final part of the trip, or did another X10 accomodate them, or did they have to stay to act as witnesses?

 

I don't see the logic in having a special rule regarding standees for buses crossing state lines. Somehow, do the buses become more dangerous as they cross state lines?

 

Commuter buses with standees do not get stopped, but if they break down, the State Police make sure that the rescued passengers have a seat on the next bus or set of buses. They don't want people standing on the highway. SIers on disabled buses have been stopped from standing on the rescue buses numerous times.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Commuter buses with standees do not get stopped, but if they break down, the State Police make sure that the rescued passengers have a seat on the next bus or set of buses. They don't want people standing on the highway. SIers on disabled buses have been stopped from standing on the rescue buses numerous times.

 

It makes perfect sense. If that bus loses control or stops short for any reason and you've folks crammed on a bus like that you're just asking for a major accident with serious injuries for which the would certainly be sued. The savings that there were getting would be eaten away with lawsuits and then some.

[JAzumah]

I'm sick of this discussion, but a few points.

 

@Gorgor: Getting a seat is not a profitable thing, that implies the MTA can't fill the bus. Comfortable, yes, but the reason the subway gives us all of our revenue is its sheer capacity and usage -- something that couldn't be said for the x90.

 

@Joel and Via: C'mon guys, this is basic. Yeah, the MCI has 57 seats on a 45-foot vs. 62 on a 60-foot, but it's 57 people total! On an MCI you can only fit 57 people on, because standees aren't allowed. On a D60HF you can fit 145 people -- now that's a bit more than an MCI. Heck, on the 40-foot bus (that's smaller than the MCI) you can fit 70 people. It's just ignorant to say that MCIs are more practical capacity-wise than a D60HF -- that's ignoring all standee-room. If we used the same buses for express and say, select, then we could fit the seated number for express buses and the standee number for the other service.

 

One of the biggest abuses in the FTA grant program is buying more bus than you need. An express bus route needs ZERO standees. You don't buy buses to hold standees on a route where the standee guideline is ZERO. On a line with a peak hour demand of 500 people, 9 MCIs does the work of 11 40' suburban transit buses. What would the SI depots look like with 22% more buses?

 

An MCI can hold 65 passengers with transit seats installed. I have seen a 61 passenger variant with the standard transit bus seats installed. On a feeder service to the subway, an MCI would seat almost the standard capacity (seated plus standing) of a 40' bus. On a unidirectional feeder, the bus could work. NJT uses them in transit service in medium volume corridors.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

One of the biggest abuses in the FTA grant program is buying more bus than you need. An express bus route needs ZERO standees. You don't buy buses to hold standees on a route where the standee guideline is ZERO. On a line with a peak hour demand of 500 people, 9 MCIs does the work of 11 40' suburban transit buses. What would the SI depots look like with 22% more buses?

 

An MCI can hold 65 passengers with transit seats installed. I have seen a 61 passenger variant with the standard transit bus seats installed. On a feeder service to the subway, an MCI would seat almost the standard capacity (seated plus standing) of a 40' bus. On a unidirectional feeder, the bus could work. NJT uses them in transit service in medium volume corridors.

 

Not to mention that Staten Island even with Charleston Depot is still bursting at the seams for more space, so adding more buses at depots like Castleton would lead to the issues that have plagued Staten Island Depots for years, like a lack of space to properly maintain their fleet.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

In my opinion, the biggest waste is having the conductors. Maybe with the SmartCards, they can have turnstiles at the stations and cut down on fare collection costs.

 

Wow, you would really leave us vulnerable huh... I suppose you also supported the trying to drive the subway cars w/no humans too?

 

 

Last year and in the beginning of this year, it would be common to see 2-3 X17Js come at a time. In the second half of the year, it looks like they are spacing them out a little bit more, but I still think service has decreased a bit on the line.

 

That's the one line that they're clearly cracking the whip on. Then again there are more and more buses running out of Charleston and I suppose that the management there is better than at Yukon. In any event, the buses are showing up as scheduled and actually showing up ON TIME; not early and not late either for the most part. For that the should be applauded. Now if we could get the X10 to run like that...

 

But as far as standees go, that would be the advantage of suburban buses: They accomodate standees easier and there are more places to hold onto (personally, I just hold onto the seat, but I can see others having a problem).

 

As Jazumah said in an earlier post, the standees on an express bus are supposed to be zero, so the purpose of the buses should be to seat as many folks as possible, not to have people standing. We've seen the types of fatal accidents with coach buses on the expressway and I don't believe there were standees either and look at the carnage from those. There are certain situations where safety/commonsense should prevail over trying to squeeze as many people on a bus as possible. The loss of life and lawsuits that will come from those sorts of accidents cost far more than adding buses to deal with making sure that everyone is seated.

 

By the way, for the Richmond Avenue incident, how many passengers remained on the bus, and what did they do? Did they wait for a local bus for the final part of the trip, or did another X10 accomodate them, or did they have to stay to act as witnesses?

Basically everyone saw what happened since she fell right there in the aisle in the front of the bus. While she was certainly jerked and thrown to the floor good, none of us felt that it was that serious. However, with me having been hit by a car, I think she was smart to demand that the bus be put out service and filed a report because you don't necessarily feel the pain immediately.

 

When I was hit by a car up in college, I declined medical attention because I felt fine at that time, but then my knee swelled like crazy and I had to go the doctor there on campus and they didn't really know what to do other than give me pointers as to how to get the swelling down, but it was clearly from the accident.

 

As far as what happened, it was pouring rain outside, which was one reason why folks didn't want the bus put out service because some folks didn't have umbrellas. We were allowed to stay on the bus (everyone did) until another X10 came. We actually sat there for a bit because she took a while to get up once she got herself together from falling and sitting down there in a seat and since her stop was nearby, it wasn't clear as to whether or not she was getting off or staying on, so we had to sit there, and as we did, one X10 came by but the bus wasn't officially out of service yet, so when it finally became clear that she was indeed not getting off and wanted a report made, then that's when the B/O put the bus out of service and had us wait for an X10. I don't recall anyone sticking around to assist with the report, since just about everybody was pissed because they felt as if she was making a big deal out of the situation and more importantly they were delayed and had to stand in the pouring rain while waiting to board the X10 that eventually came.

 

 

I don't see the logic in having a special rule regarding standees for buses crossing state lines. Somehow, do the buses become more dangerous as they cross state lines?

 

It's not necessarily a special rule, but rather one of commonsense for safety purposes. As Jazumah said, there shouldn't be any standees regardless of if the express bus is crossing state lines or not. If a bus flipped over on the expressway, the injuries and death from that with all of those people standing would be massive and don't say it can't happen because we've seen several examples of deadly accidents with buses on the highway.

[checkmatechamp13]

actually they replace impractical bus subway commutes that are just too long.

 

Not necessarily. B35 talked about how Morris Park riders would get impatient and take the Bx21->. And the QM10/11/12 serve areas that are a short bus ride from the subway.

 

Even a route like the QM5/6, which travels all the way from Eastern Queens can be done by bus->subway, and I'm sure that there are people living near there who are willing to do that.

 

I don't think any bus->subway commute is (technically) impractical: My commute takes 90 minutes and it is S92->ferry->.

 

Sounds like the perfect description of the X90 right there.

 

60 minutes of travel time isn't "impractical".

 

I wasn't referring to the SI Ferry service, but okay. I was referring to other fast ferry services here in the city that are heavily subsidized. The Ferry is one of them, but the fast ferry services often operate at very heavy losses in comparison to say the SI Ferry and the taxpayers are paying for that as well, so my point is if MVH has such issues with services that aren't either the subway or the local bus here in New York City, then spread your outrage around and stop harping on one service because it's really ridiculous. Like I said, he won't do that because he just wants to harp on express bus service.

 

I know you weren't referring to the SI Ferry service, but I was just giving an example of a service that is fairly expensive to operate.

 

I thought the fast ferry services weren't that expensive to operate. If they started out being operated by a private company, I don't see how expensive they could be.

 

One of the biggest abuses in the FTA grant program is buying more bus than you need. An express bus route needs ZERO standees. You don't buy buses to hold standees on a route where the standee guideline is ZERO. On a line with a peak hour demand of 500 people, 9 MCIs does the work of 11 40' suburban transit buses. What would the SI depots look like with 22% more buses?

 

An MCI can hold 65 passengers with transit seats installed. I have seen a 61 passenger variant with the standard transit bus seats installed. On a feeder service to the subway, an MCI would seat almost the standard capacity (seated plus standing) of a 40' bus. On a unidirectional feeder, the bus could work. NJT uses them in transit service in medium volume corridors.

 

But if there are already standees on many SI routes, and the MTA isn't going to change that, you might as well accomodate those standees more comfortably.

 

Wow, you would really leave us vulnerable huh... I suppose you also supported the trying to drive the subway cars w/no humans too?

 

As Jazumah said in an earlier post, the standees on an express bus are supposed to be zero, so the purpose of the buses should be to seat as many folks as possible, not to have people standing. We've seen the types of fatal accidents with coach buses on the expressway and I don't believe there were standees either and look at the carnage from those. There are certain situations where safety/commonsense should prevail over trying to squeeze as many people on a bus as possible. The loss of life and lawsuits that will come from those sorts of accidents cost far more than adding buses to deal with making sure that everyone is seated.

 

 

 

 

Bold #1: The subway runs with only one conductor and people seem to be alright with that.

 

And the CBTC program would get rid of the conductor, not the operator.

 

Bold #2: But the S53/79/93 travel on a highway and are allowed to have standees.

[qjtransitmaster]

Not necessarily. B35 talked about how Morris Park riders would get impatient and take the Bx21->. And the QM10/11/12 serve areas that are a short bus ride from the subway.

 

Even a route like the QM5/6, which travels all the way from Eastern Queens can be done by bus->subway, and I'm sure that there are people living near there who are willing to do that.

 

I don't think any bus->subway commute is (technically) impractical: My commute takes 90 minutes and it is S92->ferry->.

 

 

 

60 minutes of travel time isn't "impractical".

 

 

 

I know you weren't referring to the SI Ferry service, but I was just giving an example of a service that is fairly expensive to operate.

 

I thought the fast ferry services weren't that expensive to operate. If they started out being operated by a private company, I don't see how expensive they could be.

 

 

 

But if there are already standees on many SI routes, and the MTA isn't going to change that, you might as well accomodate those standees more comfortably.

 

 

 

Bold #1: The subway runs with only one conductor and people seem to be alright with that.

 

And the CBTC program would get rid of the conductor, not the operator.

 

Bold #2: But the S53/79/93 travel on a highway and are allowed to have standees.

QM6 should go super express via LIE non stop to 188th street all trips. Let qm 5 have union tpk west of 188th. then QM1 loses offpeak service it doesn't need it. this alone makes QM6 faster than bus subway commute if not completely separated

[B35 via Church]

Not necessarily. B35 talked about how Morris Park riders would get impatient and take the Bx21->. And the QM10/11/12 serve areas that are a short bus ride from the subway.

 

Nah... I said the morris park av section of the BxM10 is where b/o's tend to crawl the route (for w/e the reason)..... It's the Eastchester av portion where riders you see riders initially wait for the express, get impatient enough & end up taking the 31 to the ....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

60 minutes of travel time isn't "impractical".

 

It certainly is impractical for someone commuting from the 80s on the Upper East Side to the WFC. Like I said I can usually reach Manhattan from Staten Island in one hour.

 

 

I know you weren't referring to the SI Ferry service, but I was just giving an example of a service that is fairly expensive to operate.

 

I thought the fast ferry services weren't that expensive to operate. If they started out being operated by a private company, I don't see how expensive they could be.

 

What made you think that they weren't that expensive to operate???

 

Perhaps you should look at the costs of that new ferry service that the city started from Williamsburg recently. They are spending an enormous amount of money to take folks off of the line and take strain off of the system with the thinking that the is becoming overcrowded too quickly.

 

 

 

But if there are already standees on many SI routes, and the MTA isn't going to change that, you might as well accomodate those standees more comfortably.

 

Uh actually they are changing that. The only problem now is the buses f*cking up, not that there aren't enough buses to handle the loads. The solution isn't to keep breaking the law. The solution is to follow the guidelines as they're supposed to legally in many cases and make sure folks are seated as they're supposed to to avoid people getting injured or killed.

 

 

Bold #1: The subway runs with only one conductor and people seem to be alright with that.

 

Yeah well the subway and a commuter train are two different things with two different set ups. It's like trying to apply one set of rules to two languages that are similar. They may be similar, but they're not the same and thus the same rules don't apply.

 

Bold #2: But the S53/79/93 travel on a highway and are allowed to have standees.

 

LOL, travel on what highway??? They travel for 5-10 minutes on the Verrazano bridge. That is certainly not the same as having folks standing on a bus going 50 - 60 mph on an open expressway for long periods of time. Aside from that those local buses don't reach the speeds that those MCIs do either.