IRT Bronx Express Posted September 19, 2011 Share #26 Posted September 19, 2011 That, and peak direction (J)/(Z) express used the middle track to and from Williamsburg Bridge/Nassau St in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted September 19, 2011 Share #27 Posted September 19, 2011 I meant the statement about Queens Blvd doesn't need 2 locals on weekends Not to go off topic but you right Q43. I was 'railfanning' over the summer in mid-July on a Saturday evening at Queens Center. Was waiting for a train at Woodhaven going back to Grand Central to catch Metro North home. Long story short, i waited almost 25 minutes after just missing a Manhattan bound train. I swear that in that 20-plus minutes about 6-Manhattan bound and trains passed us (riders waiting at Woodhaven)by. Finally a arrives and it Rush Hour crushloaded until 74 St/Jackson Heights. Then it empties out to almost empty. Then as i was getting up at the stairs at 74/Roosevelt, another Manhattan bound arrives about 2 minutes later and almost was empty. Biggest issue with the besides being so a damn long line subject to frequent train bunching, is that the underestimates how busy the local QB stations are 24/7 including weekends and even overnights. Thus i always felt that since the does not want the to on QB off peak, that instead the should run local at least after 9pm on Saturday/Sunday nights as the Queens Local. The while always 'busy' is not crushloaded on late Saturday/Sunday Nights and occasional you can get a seat even in Queens on late weekend evenings. The running local after 9pm Saturday/Sunday evenings is a compromise and would help the most when QC and the other malls in Rego Park/East Elmhurst area are closing. When those stores are closing the Woodhaven and 63rd Drive stations are often packed with both shoppers and store workers going home. Thus the would still run as an QB express 24/7. Again the does need to run on QB on weekends other than if a "GO" cancels service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGerald Posted September 20, 2011 Share #28 Posted September 20, 2011 There are transit fans that have called for particular E-trains on weekends to run local, when there is a delay in R-train service. A waiting period of 20-25 minutes at first glance sounds like a missing interval. In such a case, having the train dispatchers require a particular E-train to make all local stops would at least help move the crowds until the R-train route can recover itself. This is not the same as suggesting that E-trains run local all weekend long, but at least a response for momentary problems. Such a suggestion does not involve greater manpower costs or permanent changes to weekend E-train service. There's the feeling that with long waits for trains - 20-25 minute long waits - having someone in charge concerned about the riders would be a good thing. Having 5-6 E and F trains pass by all of the local stations does not sound like someone is concerned about local station riders, and is doing something about the problem. Just my thoughts. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjbr40 Posted September 20, 2011 Share #29 Posted September 20, 2011 All these years the M train is just a shuttle from Myrtle and Metropolitan on the weekend. I think it would be good idea to get extended to Manhattan or their usual 71 Ave see how the ridership should pick up on it own way , not when there a GO assisting the L line. Also you folk need to keep in mind that train take lot of electricity when moving and braking. I got this info on one of the discovery channel and those TGV use electricity and pushes it back when train slow sown. I wander if this is on all the new trains out there. That would help but i guess when ridership are low on weekend , less train to go from one end to the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamousNYLover Posted September 20, 2011 Share #30 Posted September 20, 2011 I wonder what will happened if ended up in Chambers St or Broad St? Will this confuse former (Mx) riders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimer Posted September 20, 2011 Share #31 Posted September 20, 2011 Anytime there's a 20 min+ wait for a train during the day THAT close to a terminal, that's just bad dispatching. That's not a need for another service, or even increased service on the line(s) that already serve that particular point. Its actually school car teaching to send an express train or two local whenever there's a delay of any sort for the local services. The runtime is just added to the interval, and while it may piss off the crew, its technically the correct thing to do. Blatent disregard for this actually can result in the road T/D in the area (talking IND/BMT now where RCC doesn't run the railroad) being written up, but of course that never happens. Whenever an interval is lost, a flex is supposed to be put in to cover it (which is seldom the reason express trains aren't sent local unless there's an actual blockage), which can actually result in 15-18 minute waits between trains. An example from the : Actual Trips out of Ctl on a Sunday afternoon (no supplement): 1559 1609 1619 1629 1639 1649 The train that was supposed to make the 1619 went BIE on the way north (lets say south of Roosevelt). The 1559 just left, the 1609 is in the relay. You have just one train to play with before service drops off (1609 which didnt leave yet, and what would make the 1629 should now go express from QP-Roosevelt, but it's still in the 60th st tube). This is what a good TD should do. "Go 15 mins after the 1559, drop the 1619 for the BIE (on line speaker)". They don't know what's up with the train, why its BIE, etc. All they know its not in a timed area from communication from the T/O. It's gonna be awhile for him to walk around, caution trains thru the area, etc. This is what the intervals would look like. 1559 1614 1629 1639 1649 But lets say there's no biggie the BIE train is still good for service (hit a bucket or something inhuman) and it continues up right behind the train that was supposed to make the 1629, so now there's two trains in a row. The 1614 (original 1609) already left, and the train that's supposed to make the 1629 can't make the 1619 because it got to Ctl too late to relay, change crew, etc. So it remains the 1629. The dispatcher now says "Following the 1629 is an 1634 extra" (with the idea that 95st hopefully won't have to lose an interval). So now... 1559 1614 (on flex) 1629 1634 (extra train) 1639 (back normal) 1649, and so on. So Shortline bus comes into Woodhaven station around 4:18 looking for his , it just pulled out. He didn't get to see that it was packed because it was on a flex. The next train is 15 mins away at that hour on a busy shopping Sunday, and it will be packed because it already is gonna have 1 1/2 times the amount of people it should have at that time, and be 17 minutes late trying to load those extra people on the train. When he gets to 74th st, as he's exiting, he sees that 1634 extra go by, empty, and it gained time on its leader because that train aint picking no one up. That my railfan friends, is how the trains can bunch up (and it can happen with any subway line) and have gaps in service almost simultaneously. That's how you get 15 mins between trains, and two trains back to back. This is just a simple example, and if the trains ran every 12 minutes, the resulting flex would be 18 mins apart... 1600 1612 1624 1636 1648 1700... to 1600 1618 1636 1648 1700. It is RCC and/or local supervision's discretion whether to send any express trains local to make up the gap. Usually it doesn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallyhorse Posted September 20, 2011 Share #32 Posted September 20, 2011 West 4th Street isn't even a suitable terminal. If you study the track maps you would realize that there is a whole maze of subway tracks south of West 4th Street. Any idea of using it as a terminal will delay any train trying to use the station, but you chose to ignore this fact, and just come up with random ideas that won't work. At that point, I was simply pointing out they were using W4 as the terminal due to the water main break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted September 20, 2011 Share #33 Posted September 20, 2011 Sir(TwoTimer)hey that works too to improve delays on QB and other subway coordiors citywide.:tup: With the under a tight budget and can't afford to increase services, they should be doing more of what you stated below. Even though a few riders and the train crew would be 'pissed' you could have re-routed one of the 4-5 express trains during that 20-25 minute on that Saturday night when for whatever reason the was delayed. The only time (I mainly ride the subways maybe 1-2x a month now)in past year or so from my recent trips riding is when the Dispatch will make 'one-time changes' when a train is delayed is on the Lex line. Usually if the Downtown is delayed for instance and it arrives at Brooklyn Bridge-City Hall station as it soon it returns to the uptown local tracks, Dispatch will send it 'express' till 42-Grand Central stopping only at 14th-Union Sq. While the other train sets right behind makes all local Lex stops. Only once in last few years riding on QB to visit cousins in SE Queens, have i remembered where a Forest Hills bound was switched to the 'express tracks' to make up for fact it was about almost 30 minutes late. Only reason why this has stopped is that riders at bypass stations were complaining. Again if QB had more realiblity service, I doubt we would be having this chat of even extending the to QB on weekends. Just my takes. Anytime there's a 20 min+ wait for a train during the day THAT close to a terminal, that's just bad dispatching. That's not a need for another service, or even increased service on the line(s) that already serve that particular point. Its actually school car teaching to send an express train or two local whenever there's a delay of any sort for the local services. The runtime is just added to the interval, and while it may piss off the crew, its technically the correct thing to do. Blatent disregard for this actually can result in the road T/D in the area (talking IND/BMT now where RCC doesn't run the railroad) being written up, but of course that never happens. Whenever an interval is lost, a flex is supposed to be put in to cover it (which is seldom the reason express trains aren't sent local unless there's an actual blockage), which can actually result in 15-18 minute waits between trains. An example from the : Actual Trips out of Ctl on a Sunday afternoon (no supplement): 1559 1609 1619 1629 1639 1649 The train that was supposed to make the 1619 went BIE on the way north (lets say south of Roosevelt). The 1559 just left, the 1609 is in the relay. You have just one train to play with before service drops off (1609 which didnt leave yet, and what would make the 1629 should now go express from QP-Roosevelt, but it's still in the 60th st tube). This is what a good TD should do. "Go 15 mins after the 1559, drop the 1619 for the BIE (on line speaker)". They don't know what's up with the train, why its BIE, etc. All they know its not in a timed area from communication from the T/O. It's gonna be awhile for him to walk around, caution trains thru the area, etc. This is what the intervals would look like. 1559 1614 1629 1639 1649 But lets say there's no biggie the BIE train is still good for service (hit a bucket or something inhuman) and it continues up right behind the train that was supposed to make the 1629, so now there's two trains in a row. The 1614 (original 1609) already left, and the train that's supposed to make the 1629 can't make the 1619 because it got to Ctl too late to relay, change crew, etc. So it remains the 1629. The dispatcher now says "Following the 1629 is an 1634 extra" (with the idea that 95st hopefully won't have to lose an interval). So now... 1559 1614 (on flex) 1629 1634 (extra train) 1639 (back normal) 1649, and so on. So Shortline bus comes into Woodhaven station around 4:18 looking for his , it just pulled out. He didn't get to see that it was packed because it was on a flex. The next train is 15 mins away at that hour on a busy shopping Sunday, and it will be packed because it already is gonna have 1 1/2 times the amount of people it should have at that time, and be 17 minutes late trying to load those extra people on the train. When he gets to 74th st, as he's exiting, he sees that 1634 extra go by, empty, and it gained time on its leader because that train aint picking no one up. That my railfan friends, is how the trains can bunch up (and it can happen with any subway line) and have gaps in service almost simultaneously. That's how you get 15 mins between trains, and two trains back to back. This is just a simple example, and if the trains ran every 12 minutes, the resulting flex would be 18 mins apart... 1600 1612 1624 1636 1648 1700... to 1600 1618 1636 1648 1700. It is RCC and/or local supervision's discretion whether to send any express trains local to make up the gap. Usually it doesn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenSin Posted September 20, 2011 Share #34 Posted September 20, 2011 At that point, I was simply pointing out they were using W4 as the terminal due to the water main break. And the point before that, you were saying it'd be a good idea to terminate trains there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted September 21, 2011 Share #35 Posted September 21, 2011 And the point before that, you were saying it'd be a good idea to terminate trains there. Lmao talk about contradicting yourself (generally). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted September 21, 2011 Share #36 Posted September 21, 2011 Trains coming from the Williamsburg bridge cannot terminate at Essex Street. Only those coming from Chambers or Broad Streets can. Yes they can.... There was a G.O two years ago where they had J train coming into Essex Street on J3/4 and terminating with a Shuttle train on J1 or J2 track sometimes. It can be done but not feasable since traffic is coming from the other direction... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimer Posted September 21, 2011 Share #37 Posted September 21, 2011 Sir(TwoTimer)hey that works too to improve delays on QB and other subway coordiors citywide.:tup: With the under a tight budget and can't afford to increase services, they should be doing more of what you stated below. Even though a few riders and the train crew would be 'pissed' you could have re-routed one of the 4-5 express trains during that 20-25 minute on that Saturday night when for whatever reason the was delayed. The only time (I mainly ride the subways maybe 1-2x a month now)in past year or so from my recent trips riding is when the Dispatch will make 'one-time changes' when a train is delayed is on the Lex line. Usually if the Downtown is delayed for instance and it arrives at Brooklyn Bridge-City Hall station as it soon it returns to the uptown local tracks, Dispatch will send it 'express' till 42-Grand Central stopping only at 14th-Union Sq. While the other train sets right behind makes all local Lex stops. Only once in last few years riding on QB to visit cousins in SE Queens, have i remembered where a Forest Hills bound was switched to the 'express tracks' to make up for fact it was about almost 30 minutes late. Only reason why this has stopped is that riders at bypass stations were complaining. Again if QB had more realiblity service, I doubt we would be having this chat of even extending the to QB on weekends. Just my takes.B) Well that's what is supposed to be done, and ideal delay situation with the BIE in a perfect spot to run around, and the cause found relatively quickly, and the train still able to continue in service and finish its day of work. Crews were in the right place at the right time, which usually isn't the case (If the TD don't know exactly what they gonna do yet, crews just sit idle in the crew room until he finds out for sure). Many BIE's or other delays are not so simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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